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sarisataka

(18,574 posts)
Fri Sep 29, 2023, 12:10 PM Sep 2023

Ethan Crumbley, who was 15 when he killed 4 Michigan students, could spend the rest of his life behi

Ethan Crumbley, who was 15 when he killed 4 Michigan students, could spend the rest of his life behind bars, judge rules

Ethan Crumbley, the teen gunman who killed four students at Oxford High School, is eligible for life imprisonment without parole – the harshest possible punishment in Michigan, a judge ruled Friday.

Crumbley, now 17, was 15 when he opened fire at the school on November 30, 2021. He has pleaded guilty to one count of terrorism causing death, four counts of first-degree murder and 19 other charges related to the deadly rampage.

In addition to the four students killed, seven people were shot and wounded – including a teacher.

On Friday, Oakland County Circuit Court Judge Kwamé Rowe said Crumbley is eligible for life in prison without the possibility of parole.
https://www.cnn.com/2023/09/29/us/ethan-crumbley-trial-shooting-sentencing/index.html

Regarding life sentences and particularly considering minors-

37 votes, 0 passes | Time left: Unlimited
Minors should be eligible for life without parole
7 (19%)
Minors should be eligible for life without parole, but only in the most heinous cases
20 (54%)
Minor should always eligible for parole with a life sentence
9 (24%)
Minors should not receive life sentence regardless of parole
0 (0%)
No one should get life without parole. People change and should be eligible for release if earned.
1 (3%)
We should not sentence anyone to life, every sentence should have a finite maximum
0 (0%)
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Ethan Crumbley, who was 15 when he killed 4 Michigan students, could spend the rest of his life behi (Original Post) sarisataka Sep 2023 OP
Is there any kind of insanity or mental impairment defense in Michigan? mahatmakanejeeves Sep 2023 #1
This was the case sarisataka Sep 2023 #3
I would like to see teen murders receive life with parole no sooner than 40 years served. sinkingfeeling Sep 2023 #2
Kick nt XanaDUer2 Sep 2023 #4
I'd give minors at least a chance at parole. Elessar Zappa Sep 2023 #5
No one should be sentenced to life in prison. WhiskeyGrinder Sep 2023 #6
Jeffery Dahmer should have been paroled? Mosby Sep 2023 #7
We often point to European countries sarisataka Sep 2023 #9
This message was self-deleted by its author Mariana Sep 2023 #16
Kind if Like NowISeetheLight Sep 2023 #18
My position is that we shouldn't have prisons at all but I didn't want to derail the thread lol WhiskeyGrinder Sep 2023 #10
I thought about a "no prison" option sarisataka Sep 2023 #11
I pondered for a long time before commenting, because truly, I know my opinions are often WhiskeyGrinder Sep 2023 #13
This case is quite interesting sarisataka Sep 2023 #14
Agree with everything you say here. WhiskeyGrinder Sep 2023 #15
Now let's see some prison time for the overtly enabling parents (bought him the gun knowing he had hlthe2b Sep 2023 #8
At least in this case sarisataka Sep 2023 #17
This kid never stood a chance with the parents he was born to Buckeyeblue Sep 2023 #12

mahatmakanejeeves

(57,386 posts)
1. Is there any kind of insanity or mental impairment defense in Michigan?
Fri Sep 29, 2023, 12:16 PM
Sep 2023

I am not familiar with the case.

Thanks, and good afternoon.

sarisataka

(18,574 posts)
3. This was the case
Fri Sep 29, 2023, 12:24 PM
Sep 2023

Where the parents, knowing he was a troubled child, bought him a pistol as a "Christmas present".

They also ran off for several days when charges were filed against them rather than turn themselves in.

The shooter originally claimed insanity but a few months later withdrew that and plead guilty.

Elessar Zappa

(13,952 posts)
5. I'd give minors at least a chance at parole.
Fri Sep 29, 2023, 01:23 PM
Sep 2023

People, especially young ones, can and do change. But when considering parole, it needs to be looked at very carefully with psych evaluations, good behavior in prison, etc.

Mosby

(16,297 posts)
7. Jeffery Dahmer should have been paroled?
Fri Sep 29, 2023, 01:34 PM
Sep 2023

John Wayne Gacy, Richard Ramirez, Ted Bundy, Aileen Wuornos all deserved parole?

Is this your position?

sarisataka

(18,574 posts)
9. We often point to European countries
Fri Sep 29, 2023, 01:51 PM
Sep 2023

As models of rehabilitation.

In Norway the perpetrator of the 2011 massacre received the maximum sentence of 21 years. If at the end of the sentence he is determined to be a threat to the public detention may be extended 5 years. He may appeal for parole every year. The 5 year extensions can theoretically be for life.

I find it interesting how the worst criminals are treated and how sometimes the worst is wished on lesser offenders.

Response to sarisataka (Reply #9)

NowISeetheLight

(3,943 posts)
18. Kind if Like
Fri Sep 29, 2023, 07:40 PM
Sep 2023

How they do civil commitment for sex crimes. Serve the sentence then get locked up for "treatment" forever.

sarisataka

(18,574 posts)
11. I thought about a "no prison" option
Fri Sep 29, 2023, 02:11 PM
Sep 2023

Just for you, my friend.

We have agreed to disagree but I would ask, how would you recommend we handle cases like spree killers and mass murderers?

WhiskeyGrinder

(22,316 posts)
13. I pondered for a long time before commenting, because truly, I know my opinions are often
Fri Sep 29, 2023, 03:33 PM
Sep 2023

derailing. I appreciate the thought!

how would you recommend we handle cases like spree killers and mass murderers?


There's no easy answer to this -- which, I get it, is often used as a gotcha against abolitionists. But usually when people ask me this, my response is, "What are we doing with them now?" Specifically to this question, regarding spree killers and mass murderers, what we're doing is ignoring them until they kill enough people that we can't ignore them anymore, otherwise there wouldn't be a spree or a mass. What if we didn't ignore them? What if the resources that went into police and incarceration instead went into education and family support, so Ethan Crumbley and his family got the help they *clearly* need when he was a toddler? We know what prevents crime, but we refuse to fund it.

There are certainly serial killers who didn't have a wretched childhood, undiagnosed mental illness or ignored head trauma. They are very rare. People are comforted by the idea that there is a place with a lock on the door where they can hide people they think deserve to be hidden. In that case, for those very rare examples, perhaps a system could be designed that cannot be used against the powerless for political or social or cultural caprice, that has no roots in the current system, that is not torture, and that has a clear outcome that we all agree on. In our current society, I'm not sure that's possible.

sarisataka

(18,574 posts)
14. This case is quite interesting
Fri Sep 29, 2023, 03:49 PM
Sep 2023

Setting aside emotions and looking at it academically.

The child exhibited virtually every red flag in the book of having a major personality disorder. He appears to even have recognized it himself and tried reaching out to his parents for help.
(In some ways I would hold them more accountable than him)

I can't say why they ignored the signs and pleas. Lack of resources? Wanting to avoid stigma or shame of mental illness? Didn't give a shit about their kid? All possible.

As always we share the common ground that money spent on pre-cime intervention is more beneficial than that spent on post-crime punishment.

WhiskeyGrinder

(22,316 posts)
15. Agree with everything you say here.
Fri Sep 29, 2023, 03:55 PM
Sep 2023

I always appreciate your willingness to consider my responses seriously.

hlthe2b

(102,214 posts)
8. Now let's see some prison time for the overtly enabling parents (bought him the gun knowing he had
Fri Sep 29, 2023, 01:37 PM
Sep 2023

"issues."

Buckeyeblue

(5,499 posts)
12. This kid never stood a chance with the parents he was born to
Fri Sep 29, 2023, 02:16 PM
Sep 2023

I think his parents should get life without parole and he should be sent to some sort of mental facility to get the help he needs and maybe one day be able to live on his own.

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