"Mind-blowing": Legal experts warn that lawyer's incredible "screw-up" is "very ominous" for Trump

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

New York Judge Arthur Ergoron on Monday said that he is holding a bench trial in New York Attorney General Letitia James fraud lawsuit against former President Donald Trump because "nobody asked for" a jury trial on either side, The Messenger's Adam Klasfeld reported. "Trump isn't getting a jury trial in his $250m civil fraud suit brought against him by New York AG James because his legal team didn't request one on the paperwork," explained The Guardian's Hugo Lowell.

Legal experts were stunned by the revelation, characterizing it as a blunder by the former president's lawyers. "So Alina Habba didn't demand a jury trial?!" wrote MSNBC legal analyst Katie Phang. "I wonder how Trump feels about this screw-up by his legal team." Former U.S. Attorney Harry Litman called the decision "mind-blowing."

"For Trump to have his fate in the hands of this judge, whom he has vilified, is malpractice by his lawyers and very ominous for him," Litman wrote on X, formerly Twitter. "It's incredibly easy to ask for a jury trial. You just check a box on a form. Hard to believe that Trump understood that his lawyers hadn't done it when he's been savaging the judge who is now the factfinder in his huge fraud trial," he added. "I honestly can't believe that any lawyer hired on such an important case could make this mistake," wrote defense attorney Andrew Fleischman. "But I also can't think of any strategic reason you'd want a bench trial in front of a judge who just sanctioned your lawyers for making frivolous arguments."

https://www.yahoo.com/news/mind-blowing-legal-experts-warn-171808012.html

Legal experts: Trump's unhinged attack on judge in court shows he "realizes he's going to lose"

Former President Donald Trump on Monday lashed out at the judge overseeing his trial in New York Attorney General Letitia James' civil fraud lawsuit in Manhattan.

The former president referred to Judge Arthur Engoron as a "rogue judge" while speaking to reporters inside the courthouse, claiming the judge had undervalued his properties in a partial summary judgment handed down last week ruling that Trump had persistently committed fraud. "And he's a disgrace to people that call themselves judges," the ex-president told reporters. "And his clerk should not be allowed to be in his ear on every single question. You take a look at what's happening with her. She hates Trump more than he does."

Trump also slammed James, calling her lawsuit "a scam and a sham."

"We have a racist attorney general who is a horror show!" Trump added. "She ran on the basis of she was going to get Trump before she even knew anything about me!"

Link to tweet

https://www.yahoo.com/news/legal-experts-trumps-unhinged-attack-193525011.html

Not the brightest bulb on the string.

[Drum]

1. "Ineffective counsel" defense?

[mzmolly]

3. That's what I thought as well.

Appeal plans.

[Kid Berwyn]

8. With Just-Us Clarence waiting in the wings.

“No fair! A bad lawyer made me lose.”

[orthoclad]

35. Yeah

The Extreme Court is his hole card.

[The Roux Comes First]

61. You Don't Suppose He Still Can't Distinguish Between a State and Federal Case?

[orthoclad]

62. He sees power on the Court

and thinks its all his.

[rzemanfl]

16. Ineffective assistance of counsel is strictly for appeals in criminal cases. n/t

[mzmolly]

20. Ohh gotcha!

Perhaps he's unaware?

What about legal malpractice?

[rzemanfl]

21. Drumpf? I think not, this all for show. Malpractice is the remedy. It doesn't happen on appeal. n/t

[Ms. Toad]

25. That would be a separate trial, with Trump suing his attorney

for the damage done by her malpractice. Even assuming she committed malpractice, it won't impact any judgment in this case.

[mzmolly]

27. Good to know.

Thank you.

[wnylib]

34. Maybe not asking for a jury trial was not an accidental oversight.

Has Trump been paying his attorneys on this case?

[canetoad]

52. Yep

I'd thought of that too.

[Drum]

51. I appreciate you making this distinction!

The differences of civil and criminal law are important, and I’m thankful for any explainer or clarification.

[judesedit]

44. Exactly

[fredamoss3]

53. I view this as BS designed to overturn any guilty or award decision on appeal.

It just seems so ridiculous to me.

[captain queeg]

2. Low rent strip mall lawyers is all he can get nowadays

He have stuffed so many people for him, and his case is so cut and dried, he’s not going to get a top performer. I suppose the lawyers will not be allowed to write a book after the trial to at least make some money for time invested?

[thenelm1]

43. "Only the best people" - isn't that what famously proclaimed? n/t

[progressoid]

47. Not very low rent: " Alina Habba, took in nearly $2 million..."

The firm of a Trump defense attorney, Alina Habba, took in nearly $2 million from Save America in 2022. Habba Madaio & Associates has represented him opposite a New York State attorney general probe and in other lawsuits.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/02/21/politics/trump-leadership-pac-legal-services-2022/index.html

[Silent Type]

4. I suspect they got what they wanted. Not an attorney, but seems one could appeal

Last edited Mon Oct 2, 2023, 08:13 PM - Edit history (2)

over an “oversight.”

Edit— CNN said there was no option for a jury. And the “guilt” portion of trial was decent by judge.

[rzemanfl]

22. CNN is saying THE JUDGE IS WRONG???

[Silent Type]

32. No. They are saying there was no option for jury trial.

Here’s more:

https://www.newsweek.com/magas-outrage-trump-not-having-jury-has-one-problem-1831517

[rzemanfl]

37. Court of equity. They could have asked, so the judge was not wrong.

They probably would not have gotten a jury, but they didn't ask.

[Sky Jewels]

5. HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!!!

I am greatly amused.

[DemocraticPatriot]

64. I too, find this comical...

Glad Trump got the quality of representation which he deserves...

[rzemanfl]

6. Civil juries in New York are six jurors, five of whom must agree.

Last edited Mon Oct 2, 2023, 08:04 PM - Edit history (1)

Quite honestly, I think the odds of getting a jury, 5/6ths of whom want to impoverish the orange asshole, are better than getting one a third of whom will agree he didn't do anything wrong. I am convinced the jury waiver was tactical, and the complaining is part of the con of his followers.

[uponit7771]

19. +1

[Sgent]

36. This

Lawyers routinely waive a jury trial if they have an unlikable client or one whose case relies on technical issues. The fact that it backfired doesn't mean it wasn't intentional.

[TygrBright]

7. Deliberate. [Redacted]'s team knows how deeply he's hated in NY.

A jury trial looks fairer, but in [Redacted]'s case it would be almost impossible to rig a jury, as he's so intensely detested in NY. An attempt to suborn or intimidate enough impartial jurors to rig a 7-5 acquittal would be difficult enough, but also HIGHLY likely to run into serious trouble if the panel member(s) squealed - and they would.

This way they have the second-best thing - the "we got treated SO unfairly by a biased system, LOOK AT POOR ME!! and EVIL THEM!!" bragging rights, PLUS a possible "incompetent counsel" basis for appeal.

They're literally trying to make bricks without straw here, and it's the best they can do.

amusedly,
Bright

[rzemanfl]

9. Please see my post above regarding New York civil juries. n/t

[TygrBright]

11. LOL... thank you. You posted just as I hit the "reply" button!

I wasn't aware that civil juries required such a high consensus in NY state.

Either way, though, I doubt they're overly concerned about having missed that one. They prefer whining rights and an appeal basis to the risk of even a civil jury giving him the thumbs-down.

speculatively,
Bright

[rzemanfl]

12. Also, "ineffective assistance of counsel" only applies in criminal cases.

My thinking is Orange Julius Caesar made a decision with counsel to have a bench trial, and this no jury stuff is part of the con on his idiot followers.

[TygrBright]

24. Could well be. He might end up suing his lawyers, too...

Always an option when you don't wanna pay them, if you're a grifter.

cynically,
Bright

[LiberalFighter]

10. Wouldn't the jury be seated at the beginning?

And they are just now complaining?

[Alexander Of Assyria]

45. A cursory study of the history would reveal the answer...summary judgment,

[Oldvet]

13. These "experts" are wrong

I think some of the federal/national media "experts" are just unaware of NY state civil stuff

Already posted, but I guess I'll repeat...

It's likely he actually wasn't entitled to a jury trial here- although he could've had a hearing to appeal for one- and likely wouldn't have gotten it.

Citation case law

https://casetext.com/case/people-v-first-am-corp-2

Trump team probably knew they were going to lose in lower Court, and are playing various ways for appeals. One being an appeal for partial judicial prejudiced.

There are multiple law pro's also citing this today now.

In addition hoping the judge makes some errors in his decisions. (I think he did already)

I don't think it's likely to change the outcome much though.

He's likely screwed.

[groundloop]

26. "Judicial Prejudice" - I said ugly things about the judge so therefore he hates me.

[rzemanfl]

31. Please ignore my OP looking for your post.

I have been wrong about this all night.

[dpibel]

33. So Engoron was just blowing smoke?

That part about nobody requesting a jury trial?

He don't know what you know?

[rzemanfl]

40. They did not request a jury trial.

They probably would not have gotten one, but they never tried.

[dpibel]

49. The poster to whom I replied

made a categorical statement that they were not entitled to a jury trial.

Really, there's no "probably would not have gotten one" about it.

If you're entitled to a jury trial and you request it, you get it.

If you're not entitled to a jury trial, there's no point asking for one.

Engoron, as I understand it, said the reason this is a bench trial is because no one asked for a jury.

That means either the poster to whom I responded is wrong, and a jury trial was available, or Engoron was wrong.

I realize it's a tough choice: the legal analysis of a sitting judge versus the opinion of an anonymous online poster.

But, flipping a coin, I think I'll go with the judge.

[Oldvet]

63. Very well

The judge was making a civi procedure notation when he stated that, as a matter of procedure. It wouldn't have made a difference as you can see from my case law citation above.

The judge finally spoke on the subject this morning.






What we had that morning was horrid courtroom reporting.

Media companies top reporters went, who normally report on criminal or federal cases. They were even giving mid day updates like it was a story.

They should've had business law reporters go.


This old man might be old, but sometimes old is wise

[onenote]

65. Thank You.

It turns out that some of the "legal experts" saying Trump's lawyers made some egregious error don't know the law.

[Scrivener7]

38. What error did he make? (I haven't been watching, but probably wouldn't know it if I saw it.)

[Hekate]

14. Alina Humuna-humuna

[erronis]

39. Not sure there's much of a fatal attraction there anymore.

Rich old fart and pretty young thing. Not a tango made in heaven....

[Bev54]

15. I suspect that Trump himself wanted a bench trial because he has lost too much with

jury trials and up until the Judge ruled against him was comfortable with a bench trial. The idiot lawyers though should have still opted in for a jury trial as they could always then change their mind to a bench trial but they cannot go the other way.

[Alexander Of Assyria]

46. Civil trial, not criminal rules...different ballpark.

[Bev54]

50. Nope, you can change your mind to a bench trial.

[Alexander Of Assyria]

56. You can try! 2 years later after multiple rulings...good luck!!

14 day rule is so you can’t go judge shopping…now it’s hundreds and hundreds of days…would get laughed out by another judge!

[Bev54]

58. Rulings have nothing to do with this, rulings are made by the Judge.

A defendant can waive a jury trial to a bench trial at any point.

[Alexander Of Assyria]

59. Precisely, can't wait two years and multiple rulings,,,then want a jury!!? 14 day rule for reason!

[Bev54]

60. Do some research!

[Richard D]

17. There will be an immense sigh of relief

when he is found guilty and put behind bars. If for nothing else than we won't have to look at his ugly face anymore.

[ProfessorGAC]

23. Not In This Case

This is a civil trial. Jailtime is not one of the consequences.
The death penalty to his NY businesses, however, is still possible.
But, there will be no "behind bars" from these proceedings.

[ffr]

18. This makes the assumption that TFG didn't direct his attorneys to NOT make the request.

Think about it. TFG probably consulted with them and came to the conclusion that a jury of his peers would probably get even uglier than having a judge's decision.

[Alexander Of Assyria]

57. ...trial is over, liability has been summarily found..,now it's an equitable relief being requested

and given…financial monitor in place long ago…equitable relief can only be given by a judge, damages has already been established.

It’s complicated!! Much more than can be discussed here…infinitely more than the simplicity of social media. The Rules of Civil Procedure in NY, like all juridictions, is a thicket that takes years to master, if you have a J.D.

The public is getting a detailed look at the details of the Rule of Law and it’s all great! The public doesn’t have to get it right, the professionals understand it all.

[COL Mustard]

28. No wonder x45 never pays his lawyers

They’re worthless, in the literal sense of the word.

[captain queeg]

29. So this judge willset the fines? Seems like whatever they are he will appeal.

[Recycle_Guru]

30. I tend to agree with other people I read that Trump wanted a bench trial

and is throwing his legal team under the bus because in his pea brain he can claim its all rigged against him.

[Haggard Celine]

54. I agree. All Trump cares about is how he is perceived.

If he can fight long enough, maybe they'll just go away. But if they don't, he can claim it was all rigged. And a lot of people will believe him, even if he's under house arrest.

[Snackshack]

41. Welcome to the DT speculation game...

1 of 3 things is going on here.

1- DT doesn’t care. It’s a civil fraud trial and all this money is gone anyway legal fees and everything else he is floating now as his business has crumbled and he will probably be dead before it actually ever settles anyway.

2- DT simply wants trial over. He has several of these. I bet he does 180 now, all he can to fast track these trials everything else that cannot be delayed until after elections. If he actually wins a 2nd term as President…a real possibility none of this matters at all.

3- DTs reserve chute consists of more TS docs that have not been recovered that can be sold / traded for being able to spend his remaining years in Russia or some other country we do not have an extradition treaty with.

[paleotn]

42. But get this....

His company is still liable for the debit on the properties he may lose in this case and the debt where some of those properties might have been counted as collateral, violating his loan agreements. Maybe he is personally. I certainly hope so. Either way, he's fucked. What an unmitigated mess this will cause him.

[ecstatic]

55. Has anyone told trump yet? Because I don't think he got the memo

Or if he did, he's already forgotten it. Smh. Lol