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Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin

(135,713 posts)
Wed Oct 4, 2023, 08:17 PM Oct 2023

Pythagorean Theorem Found On Clay Tablet 1,000 Years Older Than Pythagoras

But while Pythagoras was an important historical figure in the development of mathematics, he did not figure out the equation most associated with him (a2 + b2 = c2). In fact, there is an ancient Babylonian tablet (by the catchy name of IM 67118) which uses the Pythagorean theorem to solve the length of a diagonal inside a rectangle. The tablet, likely used for teaching, dates from 1770 BCE – centuries before Pythagoras was born in around 570 BCE.

Another tablet from around 1800–1600 BCE has a square with labeled triangles inside. Translating the markings from base 60 – the counting system used by ancient Babylonians – showed that these ancient mathematicians were aware of the Pythagorean theorem (not called that, of course) as well as other advanced mathematical concepts.

"The conclusion is inescapable. The Babylonians knew the relation between the length of the diagonal of a square and its side: d=square root of 2," mathematician Bruce Ratner writes in a paper on the topic. "This was probably the first number known to be irrational. However, this in turn means that they were familiar with the Pythagorean Theorem – or, at the very least, with its special case for the diagonal of a square (d2 = a2 + a2 = 2a2) – more than a thousand years before the great sage for whom it was named."

So why did this get attributed to Pythagoras? No original writing from Pythagoras survives. What we know of him was passed on by others, in particular the Pythagoreans – members of a school he set up in what is now modern-day southern Italy. The school, named the Semicircle of Pythagoras, was secretive, but knowledge learned there or discovered was passed on, and often attributed to the man himself.

https://www.iflscience.com/pythagorean-theorem-found-on-clay-tablet-1000-years-older-than-pythagoras-70934

I posted this in error earlier in the video forum.

36 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Pythagorean Theorem Found On Clay Tablet 1,000 Years Older Than Pythagoras (Original Post) Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Oct 2023 OP
Triangles man, triangles underpants Oct 2023 #1
Too funny. Perfect. Bristlecone Oct 2023 #23
What is that from? robbob Oct 2023 #34
OMG!!! grumpyduck Oct 2023 #2
The Theory of Relativity was found along with it. 😜 TheBlackAdder Oct 2023 #26
Very cool. It's always amazing to think about how much wisdom the ancients had LymphocyteLover Oct 2023 #3
So, Pythagoras had a crib sheet? Sogo Oct 2023 #4
I am renaming him Plagiarus. NT redwitch Oct 2023 #32
Perhaps, or perhaps he or other Greeks found it independently. muriel_volestrangler Oct 2023 #36
I think the cultures around the Aegean orthoclad Oct 2023 #5
I think there is some parallel with the US in that regard. Ursus Rex Oct 2023 #9
The US has 2 big advantages over the Aegean cultures orthoclad Oct 2023 #16
Wow. That's an interesting find. Martin68 Oct 2023 #6
Shhhhh, the (R)'s will ban the arabic numerals that were used at that time (said whispering). n/t aggiesal Oct 2023 #7
(not to mention weapons of math instruction......) lastlib Oct 2023 #24
Yep, I see Florida banning the more ancient tablet gratuitous Oct 2023 #25
Aliens..... getagrip_already Oct 2023 #8
I knew it! SergeStorms Oct 2023 #10
They were a cult, but orthoclad Oct 2023 #17
Good point ailsagirl Oct 2023 #21
Well... Dr. Strange Oct 2023 #33
Way cool! Hekate Oct 2023 #11
WOW Goodheart Oct 2023 #12
. Takket Oct 2023 #13
Homer shouldn't feel bad, the Scarecrow blew it too. LudwigPastorius Oct 2023 #18
Very simple explanation SCantiGOP Oct 2023 #14
Pythagoras was a time traveler?!? eggplant Oct 2023 #15
The carpenters in post WWII DENVERPOPS Oct 2023 #19
Fascinating!!! ailsagirl Oct 2023 #20
It's all about marketing Orrex Oct 2023 #22
Mesopotamian cultures were 'diggers'. Digging canals taught them mathematics. pecosbob Oct 2023 #27
Wouldn't ancient pyramid builders have to have had some understanding about the wnylib Oct 2023 #28
Not necessarily, I think. They could have just been working from experience muriel_volestrangler Oct 2023 #30
Well, you know Kennah Oct 2023 #29
I guess the dog didn't eat the homework! yellowcanine Oct 2023 #31
That would have been when Hammurabi was in charge, I think Clash City Rocker Oct 2023 #35

muriel_volestrangler

(106,210 posts)
36. Perhaps, or perhaps he or other Greeks found it independently.
Fri Oct 6, 2023, 04:40 AM
Oct 2023

A lot went on in the 1000 years between them, including the Late Bronze Age collapse, so continuity of good technical knowledge can't be assumed.

orthoclad

(4,728 posts)
5. I think the cultures around the Aegean
Wed Oct 4, 2023, 08:57 PM
Oct 2023

were especially good at synthesizing from other civilizations. They had the seamanship for trade and communication (and piracy? ), and they neighbored Asia Minor and Egypt, several cradles of technology and culture. Combine that with a gentle climate, abundant seafood, and fertile land, and you have the leisure to think, and material to think about..

Ursus Rex

(486 posts)
9. I think there is some parallel with the US in that regard.
Wed Oct 4, 2023, 09:34 PM
Oct 2023

Endless imports of culture, food, people, technology, and all the ideas that those represent. It's a great and rare strength.

orthoclad

(4,728 posts)
16. The US has 2 big advantages over the Aegean cultures
Wed Oct 4, 2023, 10:05 PM
Oct 2023

1. Wide ocean borders, don't have to worry about Persians invading, or saturation bombing. We are the only industrial country that came out of WWII without our factories bombed. That advantage lasted for generations.

2. Lots of genocide and chattel slave labor

The Greeks used slaves, but not like we did/do (prison labor now). But yes, synthesis is a strength. The US was a refuge for many scientists fleeing first fascism, then defeat.

aggiesal

(10,804 posts)
7. Shhhhh, the (R)'s will ban the arabic numerals that were used at that time (said whispering). n/t
Wed Oct 4, 2023, 09:16 PM
Oct 2023

lastlib

(28,264 posts)
24. (not to mention weapons of math instruction......)
Wed Oct 4, 2023, 11:26 PM
Oct 2023

And those secretive terrorist groups "al-Gebra" and "Trigonom-etry"--using secret code-signs like x, y, and z......... Sounds sinister.....

gratuitous

(82,849 posts)
25. Yep, I see Florida banning the more ancient tablet
Wed Oct 4, 2023, 11:29 PM
Oct 2023

Because robbing Pythagoras of his theorem would make some present-day Floridian feel bad about himself, because for some inexplicable reason his self-image is dependent on a guy who lived two thousand years ago.

SergeStorms

(20,591 posts)
10. I knew it!
Wed Oct 4, 2023, 09:42 PM
Oct 2023

I always knew Pythagoras plagiarized ancient Babylonians. I just couldn't prove it. 🤔

The Semicircle of Pythagoras was a cult, the long lost precursors of MAGAts.

It's the truth! Look it up. 😁

orthoclad

(4,728 posts)
17. They were a cult, but
Wed Oct 4, 2023, 10:27 PM
Oct 2023

I wouldn't compare them to MAGAts. More like the churches. It was a religious thing. Lot of cults around back then in polytheistic days. It wasn't a dirty word like now.

Dr. Strange

(26,058 posts)
33. Well...
Thu Oct 5, 2023, 09:54 AM
Oct 2023
I just couldn't prove it. 🤔

You can't prove it using just the standard Euclidean axioms, and using just a straightedge and a compass.

pecosbob

(8,386 posts)
27. Mesopotamian cultures were 'diggers'. Digging canals taught them mathematics.
Thu Oct 5, 2023, 12:14 AM
Oct 2023

They were also responsible for stuff like our modern calendars and clocks, and the alphabet.

wnylib

(26,009 posts)
28. Wouldn't ancient pyramid builders have to have had some understanding about the
Thu Oct 5, 2023, 01:15 AM
Oct 2023

relationship between the base and sides of a triangle? They started with a square base and built 4 triangles from it to meet in the center of the square at an equal height for each side. They would have had to calculate the angle of incline for each side to have the apexes of the triangles meet at the same point. .

muriel_volestrangler

(106,210 posts)
30. Not necessarily, I think. They could have just been working from experience
Thu Oct 5, 2023, 04:00 AM
Oct 2023

of how much you need to set the next layer of blocks it to produce a stable pyramid (eg "if your block is 4 cubits high, you must set the next layer at least 3 and a quarter cubits in" or whatever).

See eg the "Bent Pyramid" from a bit earlier:



There is evidence within the core of the Bent Pyramid that it was begun as a much smaller pyramid, with a slope of some 60°. Structural problems, caused mainly by the unstable sandy underground, forced the builders to encase this central pyramid in a girdle with a slope of 54°27'44". This was the slope for the lower part of the pyramid as it stands today.

Unfortunately, the building technique that was used -a technique going back to the Step Pyramids which consisted of using inward leaning courses- did not help to stabilise this monument. Fearing that the pyramid would collapse under its own weight, its slope was lowered to 43°22' somewhere halfway up the building. It is possible that the upper part of the Bent Pyramid was continued only after finishing the Red Pyramid, which was built a couple of kilometres to the North of the Bent Pyramid. In any case, the Red Pyramid has exactly the same slope of 43°22' as the upper part of the Bent Pyramid. In its finished state, this pyramid has a base length of 188 metres and is 105 metres high.

http://www.ancient-egypt.org/history/old-kingdom/4th-dynasty/snofru/pyramids/bent-pyramid-at-dashur.html

To get the sides all to meet at a point, you just do the same thing on all 4 sides. And if they did use angles like us - measured as a fraction of a complete circle - that doesn't need Pythagoras' theorem. That only comes in when you're calculating the diagonal lengths.

Clash City Rocker

(3,546 posts)
35. That would have been when Hammurabi was in charge, I think
Thu Oct 5, 2023, 06:43 PM
Oct 2023

One of the things the Greeks did well was export their language to other lands, which made it easier to teach things like the Pythagorean Theorem. So it’s not too surprising that Pythagoras got the credit.

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