I am a strong supporter of a free and independant Palestine.

[prodigitalson]

I actually have both Palestenian and Israeli students that I teach on line. One is a young woman of 23 who is in the IDF.

However, I don't see how the Israelis don't take out Hamas once and for all after this. My heart goes out to all the innocent people caught in this..

And yes, there are good people on both sides (civilians)

[samnsara]

1. ..and who in their right mind would actually LIVE in Gaza!

..thats like living smack dab on top of a very active volcano on top of a fault line. Its got to be tense there 24/7....

[prodigitalson]

2. I'm sure it isn't by choice for many.

They were born there and they are poor.

[LeftInTX]

3. They don't have anywhere else to go

Lots of other countries won't take Palestinians.

It's a clusterfuck.

When violence in the ME exploded in the late 70's, other countries would not take the Palestinians. Lebanon wouldn't. I read Thomas Friedman's book "From Beirut to Jerusalem", who was working in Beirut late 70s, and 80s.
Palestinians would say, "We're Arabs too".
Response: "You're a different Arab".

I think Arafat was a big issue with other countries.

[Johnny2X2X]

4. They don't have a choice

Travel in and out of Gaza is severely restricted and there is no place else to go. Israel controls a lot of things about the Gaza economy.

But Gaza is also a terrible place to live, they do not have freedom. Hamas controls everything including the schools, freedom of speech (or lack of), labor, and the courts.

Hamas's rule in Gaza is basically a laundry list of the American Republican party's ideas for America. No unions, no speaking out against the government, few rights for women, no divorce, no abortion, no worker's rights. The struggle is the same all over the world in most cases, Far Right Conservatives like Hamas want to have all the power and offer few rights to the citizens.

Israel has negotiated with Hamas for a long time, I think that is over now, Hamas needs to be removed from power.

[lostnfound]

5. Maybe Israel could put a General McArthur in charge, and feed and convert hatred to respect

Japan was a brainwashed, misogynistic, non-democratic, America-hating society when the US took over in 1946.
They were also starving by then.
The US did a better job of looking out for the people and treating them fairly than their government had done. Children growing up saw that life improved, and the population was tilted toward the young because adult men died in war. Democracy was established, women were given right to vote, children learned not to fear, but to respect, Americans. Americans set conditions that helped rebuild their industries.
In less than ten years they became a close ally.MacArthur was loved by the young Japanese.

A whole country. Gaza is like a big city.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

6. One of the smartest things Gen. MacArthur did

was allowing Emperor Hirohito to stay in power, that showed the Japanese people that America had no intention becoming a heavy handed occupier.

[lostnfound]

8. Tojo was executed but his collaborators were successors in power

A dear friend participated in protests in 1951 or so, in Tokyo as MacArthur was leaving. US papers portrayed the protests as anti-American or as pro-communist.

He was dumbfounded to hear that description. “We weren’t protesting the Americans! We were protesting the same old power structure of Japanese leaders getting back into power!”

The US saw some of Tojo’s right hand men as useful to maintaining order, to prevent the left from taking power.

Kishi ran slave camps in China, then was an important minister in Tojo cabinet. He was political kingmaker for decades and became prime minister in 1956, IIRC.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

19. Unfortunately, or, fortunately, which ever way one lands on this issue, history

has proven that this was the correct course of action taken by Gen. MacArthur and the US Occupation Forces to deter guerilla forces from attacking US personnel.

I served several deployments to Japan and have found that the Japanese people and govt. officials were really grateful that the US was compassionate occupiers and were nothing like what the Japanese govt portrayed before, during, and after the war.

The Japanese people are some of the most polite people I've ever met and the Japanese Self Defense Forces are some of the most professional military I've ever worked with.

[prodigitalson]

20. I always thought that one of history's ironies was that MacArthur, a political right winger

left Japan with an incredibly progressive constitution. i seem to recall it was way ahead of its time on things like women's rights and even worker's rights.

[obamanut2012]

7. Where do you suggest they go?

[redqueen]

13. Jesus fuckin Christ

(Gaza) – Israel’s sweeping restrictions on leaving Gaza deprive its more than two million residents of opportunities to better their lives, Human Rights Watch said today on the fifteenth anniversary of the 2007 closure. The closure has devastated the economy in Gaza, contributed to fragmentation of the Palestinian people, and forms part of Israeli authorities’ crimes against humanity of apartheid and persecution against millions of Palestinians.

...

“Israel, with Egypt’s help, has turned Gaza into an open-air prison,” said Omar Shakir, Israel and Palestine director at Human Rights Watch. “As many people around the world are once again traveling two years after the start of the Covid-19 pandemic, Gaza’s more than two million Palestinians remain under what amounts to a 15-year-old lockdown.”

(More at link)

https://www.hrw.org/news/2022/06/14/gaza-israels-open-air-prison-15

[Mariana]

21. The half of the population that are children have no choice.

[GP6971]

10. Hello.

[Happy Hoosier]

11. At the least, you detroy their embedded capability in Gaza.

I'm not "gung-ho" for death and destruction, but I can't see how Israel doesn't go in and absolutely wreck Hamas.

Do you see an alternative?

[Happy Hoosier]

15. Fishy? Are you proposing a conspiracy?

Initial assessment is that they heavily compartmentalized the information and keep coordination to in-person communication.

There were likely rumbles of danger, but because other common signs were missing, it was just downplayed.

So no... unless some further evidence emerges, it's not "fishy."

[Happy Hoosier]

18. Just be plain about you're suggesting.

If you think the Israelis allowed this attack to justify a response, then say that.

The "it's fishy" tack is bullshit. Say what you mean.

Welcome to DU.

[KS Toronado]

12. OK

[Elessar Zappa]

17. Palestinians need to help the Israelis get rid of Hamas.

That would make a peaceful solution much easier. Otherwise there’s going to be a lot of death and destruction that can’t be helped.