How is this "left"? How is this "progressive"? How is this "socialist"?

[lapucelle]

Link to tweet

========================================

A Nazi enjoying himself at the NYC-DSA celebration of the Hamas slaughter of civilians.

========================================

"When people show you who they are, believe them the first time."

[BlueTsunami2018]

1. It isn't. Who said it was?

There’s no justification for what happened in Israel and there’s no justification for this absurd rally or whatever you want to call it.

[lapucelle]

3. It was a NYC-DSA pro-Hamas rally on Saturday.

This event was organized by the NYC chapter of the Democratic Socialists of America. There are several NYC, NYS politicians, as well as several members of Congress who are members of or affiliated with the DSA.

[BlueTsunami2018]

10. Well, that's disconcerting.

Supporting terrorism seems diametrically opposed to what democratic socialism stands for. Man, you want to find a way to destroy your credibility? Do shit like this.

[Cha]

31. Exactly..DSA Also Protests Against

Helping Ukraine.. So Fuck them.

[Elessar Zappa]

2. The DSA should denounce these "protesters".

I’m not holding my breath though.

[lapucelle]

9. The NYC-DSA allowed these people to speak.

It was NYC-DSA members who laughed and cheered them on.

It's time for progressives in government to cut ties with this toxic group.

[Elessar Zappa]

11. Yes.

I like a lot of the squad, particularly AOC but she shouldn’t associate with that group.

[TexasDem69]

28. My understanding is that AOC and Tlaib

Are members of this group. They should immediately resign their membership.

[lapucelle]

65. There are several members of Congress who are members or affiliated.

AOC denounced the rally in a statement today. NYC Comptroller Lander is a DSA member and denounced it before it even happened. There are several prominent DSA members in both NYC and NYS government.

Jamaal Bowman is a member, but he was almost expelled for voting for the Iron Dome missile defense system.

The tone of the letter of warning that they sent him is entitled and disrespectful.

On the Question of Expelling Congressman Bowman
December 2, 2021

As a socialist organization building mass, working class power for the freedom of all oppressed peoples under capitalism and imperialism, the Democratic Socialists of America (DSA) is committed to the Palestinian fight for freedom. Palestinian liberation is an essential part of our struggle for a socialist future, not a symbolic statement, and we are facing a question of how to achieve the power necessary to ensure we are victorious. It is within this context, the context of strategy, that we examine our relationship to DSA member and Congressman Jamaal Bowman following his egregious Iron Dome vote, meeting with Israeli Prime Minister Naftali Bennett, and recent trip to Israel with J Street, a pro-Israel lobby group.

snip===========================

Already, we have seen considerable movement from Representative Bowman and his office, and a marked demonstration of interest in both accountability, and collaboration on an effective and strategic path forward to advance the Palestinian cause through progressive struggle on the congressional terrain. This is why the NPC has decided not to expel Bowman. The National Political Committee will not re-endorse Bowman unless he is able to demonstrate solidarity with Palestine in alignment with expectations we have set.

snip============================

Palestinian and Black socialist BDS organizers have implored NPC members to use all our organizational leverage to engage Bowman directly to determine whether and how his office can move toward our positions on solidarity with Palestine, before escalating to any further consequences — and to maintain a high degree of discipline about what we communicate publicly, lest we fuel Zionist media narratives.

https://www.dsausa.org/statements/on-the-question-of-expelling-rep-bowman/

[Fiendish Thingy]

42. AOC has already denounced this rally. Nt

[PufPuf23]

64. Glad to hear AOC denounced the DSA rally.

Thank you.

Tired of those that gun for her.

[Omnipresent]

4. That person is counting on being seen holding that swastika.

It is nothing but bait, to create outrage.

[Cha]

24. Whatever the reason it's

fucking Stupid & that's Not all the OP is about.. Fucking DSA.

Gaslighting Calling HAMAS "the resistance" Call it what it fucking is.. A Bloodthirsty Terrorist Org who Slaughtered women, children, Babies and took Hostages.

14 Americans have been massacred and untold Israelis and those visiting Israel.

[MorbidButterflyTat]

53. Yep Yep Yep

Want a reaction? Flash a swastika.

It crossed my mind that the image was artificially put there.

[yagotme]

62. Possible reason behind the swastika:

Nazi's: KILL THE JEWS!!!

Hamas: KILL THE JEWS!!!!

Enemy of my enemy, and all...

[stopdiggin]

5. there are 'goombahs' (another word for flakes and goobers)

on all flanks of the political spectrum. This is not news - and this also does not 'say' a great deal about either movements, or parties.

[leftstreet]

6. Any verification it wasn't photoshopped into the pic?

[BidenRocks]

8. I was thinking the same. Nt

[lapucelle]

12. Why would someone do that? Do you think it was a conspriracy

to make the folks who were holding the pro-Hamas rally look bad?

Link to tweet

[leftstreet]

14. LOL n/t

[lapucelle]

15. AOC statement on the disgusting pro-Hamas rally in Times Square.

The bigotry and callousness expressed in Times Square on Sunday were unacceptable and harmful in this devastating moment. It also did not speak for the thousands of New Yorkers who are capable of rejecting both Hamas’ horrifying attacks against innocent civilians as well as the grave injustices and violence Palestinians face under occupation.

[leftstreet]

16. Where does she verify it wasn't photoshopped?

Maybe you meant your response to someone else?

[lapucelle]

19. What are you talking about?

[TexasDem69]

66. You really think that was photoshopped?

Any support?

[Cha]

29. What's so fucking funny about

this DSA Hate rally?

[Cha]

27. TY.. & it's Not fucking "funny".

Link to tweet

/history

[lapucelle]

13. ...

Link to tweet

[sarisataka]

17. Any verification there even was a rally?

Maybe the whole thing was staged.

[leftstreet]

18. LOL

okay that made me laugh

[lapucelle]

23. .

[AZSkiffyGeek]

85. False Flags!!! /s

[Elessar Zappa]

20. Suuuurreee...

That’s it, it’s photoshopped to make the poor pro-Hamas protesters look bad. Lmao.

[Celerity]

30. likely it was not photoshopped but the photographer is a RW asshole

https://twitter.com/StuartMeissner

[leftstreet]

34. Holy crap. That tells me a lot right there

Either it's photoshopped, OR... a deliberate and exhaustive attempt to flood social media with the opposite of what the protestor intended - comparing the actions of Israel to Nazi atrocities.

[TexasDem69]

68. Why are you defending Nazis?

[lapucelle]

35. And the guy with the phone is a disgusting Nazi asshole.

[leftstreet]

39. Link to Phone Guy's XTwitter acct pls? Thanks

[obamanut2012]

33. Curious, too

[lapucelle]

37. How so?

[lapucelle]

47. ...

[Marius25]

55. Considering a similar rally in Australia included video of people shouting "Gas the Jews"

is it that hard to believe it's true?

[Celerity]

7. Curious choice of Twitter accounts to amplify on DU: The Post Millennial

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Post_Millennial

The Post Millennial is a conservative Canadian online news magazine. Founded in 2017, it publishes national and local news and has a large amount of opinion content. It has been criticized for publishing false and misleading information, including on COVID-19 as well as its opaque funding and political connections. The Post Millennial has been owned by Human Events Media Group, the parent company of the American conservative website Human Events, since 2022.

[lapucelle]

26. A Nazi enjoying himself at the NYC-DSA rally.

https://www.independent.co.uk/topic/swastika

[Celerity]

48. that doesn't explain why your original post amplified not one but two alt right/RW/MAGA tweeters

The Post Millennial

and also

Julio Rosas

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Fiery-But-Mostly-Peaceful-The-2020-Riots-and-the-Gaslighting-of-America-Hardcover-9781956007022/830338951



Product details

In the summer of 2020, America was under siege by radical ANTIFA actors across the country.

If you were only reading mainstream headlines, you probably have no idea just how bad it really was: homes and businesses being burned to the ground, livelihoods being destroyed. But corporate media mislabel them as peaceful, democratic demonstrations, in order to bolster their biased political views. Rosas presents the definitive account of what really happened that summer, with reporting of the biggest and most destructive riots that gripped the nation: Kenosha, Minneapolis, Portland, Seattle, and more. Small businesses and citizens of targeted cities are still sifting through the rubble, and Rosas highlights the ways in which this fallout continues to haunt and devastate communities even to this day. - adapted from jacket

like I said.....

curious choices of tweeters to amplify on DU

[lapucelle]

49. That's a photo from the rally and I've been posting the raw footage of the rally.

I'm not sure what you're doing, but I guess it's good when people keep busy.

Quick!!! Look over here!!!

[Celerity]

52. your original post, before you edited it, amplified tweets from 2 alt right/RW accounts

Simple as that.

The two RW accounts were:

The Post Millennial

and

Julio Rosas

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=thread&info=1&address=100218349532

[lapucelle]

54. My original post called out a disgusting display of callous indifference to and outright glee

about a mass slaughter of Jewish people. It occurred at a rally sponsored by a group that claims to be progressive, leftist and socialist.

And for some reason you appear to want to make it about something else.

I posted a photo and raw video footage from a rally in NY where I live.

I'm not responsible for what you brought here. You are.

SMH

[Celerity]

59. and yet 2 of your original choices to show that despicable DSA rally shite were RW and/or MAGAt

accounts.

Like I originally said, two curious choices.

Do you not even vet what you post in terms of the sourcing?

[lapucelle]

61. I posted pictures and raw video taken at an event.

You brought the other stuff here which is, indeed, truly curious. And in doing so, you made it about something else.

It was meant to be about them.

Link to tweet

?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

[Celerity]

63. I didn't bring 'the other stuff' in here at all. YOU did, by posting those 2 RW twitter accounts.

As you have already shown via your edits and then other new posts/replies of yours, there was a lot of other sources to show the same thing (the DSA rally rot), yet YOU originally (pre edits) chose those 2 RW/MAGAt twitter accounts as two of your main conduits to show how fucked up the DSA and the other bad actors there were.

[lapucelle]

67. Actually, you did. At least a dozen giant spammy pictures of right wing trash.

You brought them here, They are your posts.

It's a cautionary tale. Dig around deep enough, hit a sewer, fling poo at a screen. I guess it happens, but it would never occur to me to do it.

[Celerity]

72. It was simply receipts of the 'RW trash' put out by the original twitter accounts you chose to post

as your conduits of information.

If I had just said 'Oh, why are you posting RW tweeters?' and left it at that, the very first thing asked of me would have likely been 'What proof do you have of that claim, Celerity?'

After 5 plus years here, I am very aware of how DU works.

[lapucelle]

73. If I had imaginary conversations with myself, I don't think the outcome would be

to flood a thread with dozens of spammy pictures of right wing trash, especially not a thread calling out a disgusting rally in NY that celebrated a massacre of Jews.

[betsuni]

78. +1

[Nixie]

92. +1, it's all so predictable.

Thanks for sharing what you’re seeing on the ground in NY about this tone deaf mistake from the Squad. This will be very hard to come back from.

[lapucelle]

50. ...

This post has been edited 4 times. Show all



Original version with no edits.
49. What are you talking about?

Unexplained edit.
49. What on earth are you talking about?

Unexplained edit.
49. What the devil do you mean?

Unexplained edit.
49. That's a photo from the rally and I've been posting the raw footage of the rally.
I'm not sure what you're doing, but I guess it's good when people keep busy.

Quick!!! Look over here!!!

[AntivaxHunters]

74. They are not Nazi's

I really wish people would understand leftist spaces more.
They are not Nazi supporters.
It's important to understand this because saying they are is literal misinformation.

However what they're saying IMHO is incorrect.

Basically they are equating the treatment of Palestinian people at the hands of Israel to the treatment of Jews by the Nazi's.

This is a very common talking point in spaces who support the Palestinian people. While I support the plight of Palestinian people myself, this is a talking point I personally disagree with. It is a very common thing.

[lapucelle]

76. ...

Link to tweet

[Zeitghost]

80. They're fucking Nazis

They hold up swastikas and chant "gas the Jews" because they want to eradicate Jews from the earth and wipe the nation of Israel off the map form "The river to the sea". In Hitler's Germany, the phrase was Judenrein, free of Jews. There is no difference and the more you continue to insist there is makes you culpable in their calls for violence and genocide.

[betsuni]

82. "leftist spaces"

[Jedi Guy]

91. "They're not Nazis."

They're (or at least that one assclown is) holding up the literal symbol of the Nazis and calling for the destruction of the state of Israel. The state of Israel is, of course, the lone Jewish nation on the planet, and they are absolutely, without a doubt calling for its utter eradication, which of course means the eradication of the Jews living within Israel. They're celebrating the massacre, kidnap, rape, and torture of Jewish civilians, and doing so with great big smiles on their faces and joy in their hearts.

I dunno, that's seems pretty Nazi-y to me. Nazi-adjacent, at the bare minimum. YMMV.

[ForgedCrank]

21. Just my

personal opinion, but anyone can call themselves anything, that doesn't necessarily mean that is what they are.
The people pictured do not represent any Democratic values that I am aware of.

[lapucelle]

41. They're Democratic Socialists of America.

[Marius25]

56. Good for AOC.

The fact that even she's denouncing this DSA endorsed event is pretty telling.

[lapucelle]

69. It was good. N/T

[AntivaxHunters]

75. DSA was not the main sponsor of this event

PSL was.

[lapucelle]

81. NYC-DSA sponsored the event.

[lapucelle]

84. Ah, yes. They have the courage of their convictions.

[AntivaxHunters]

22. They are not a "Nazi sympathizer"

This picture is being posted out of context.
In fact it's quite the opposite.
They're accusing Israel of being like Nazi's. They're saying how Nazi's treated Jewish people is like how Israel treats Palestinian people....

Just a FYI.

It's a very common thing in those circles.

[LeftInTX]

36. Yes, it's not unlike the DSA to accuse Israel of being Nazis.

I've seen members of DU refer to Netanyahu as a Nazi.

[sarisataka]

44. So "merely" antisemitic

Rather than a full Nazi. Still not a good place to be.

[lapucelle]

46. The context is a pro-Hamas rally in NYC the day after a terrorist slaughter.

[Marius25]

58. Oh really? And how about the Pro-Palestine rally in Sydney Australia?

They were changing "Gas the Jews".

Stop defending this crap. The "Free Palestine" movement was literally started by a rabid Antisemite who views Jews the same way Hitler did.

[AntivaxHunters]

77. I'm not defending it

I'm setting the record straight.
This is a common theme among left Palestinian spaces where they compare their treatment to how Jews were treated by Nazi's. I find it very wrong. However that's what this is.

I can't speak of other rallies outside this country but I can speak for this one in this country.

[Marius25]

79. Absolutely nothing Israel has done compares to the Nazis and it's disgusting that these protests

support that idea.

[lapucelle]

87. "The iconography of the Nazis is part of a common theme in some left spaces."

Blah...blah...blah.

Australia’s leaders condemn ‘abhorrent’ scenes after anti-Jewish chants filmed at Sydney rally

Australia’s prime minister, Anthony Albanese and the foreign affairs minister, Penny Wong, have condemned pro-Palestine protesters who were filmed chanting anti-Jewish sentiments in Sydney.

Wong said there was “no place for antisemitism in our society” as questions were raised over why the rally on Monday night was allowed to occur and if Jewish people were safe in the city.

Chants heard at the rally included “fuck the Jews” and “fuck Israel”.

On Monday evening, pro-Palestine protesters marched from Sydney Town Hall to the Sydney Opera House, which was lit up in white and blue in solidarity with Israel. Parliament House in Canberra was also lit up in the colours of Israel’s flag.

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2023/oct/10/pro-palestine-rally-sydney-opera-house-protest-australia-leaders-condemn-anti-jewish-chants

Link to tweet

[AZSkiffyGeek]

86. You know what other circles commonly wave swastikas?

Nazis.
Stop trying to normalize antisemitism.

[Voltaire2]

25. Meanwhile, in Dallas on Sunday

(source https://dallasvoice.com/nazi-group-gathers-outside-cathedral-of-hope-on-sunday/)

But there will be zero coverage of real nazis being openly nazi.

[lapucelle]

32. It's abundantly clear that antisemitism has become normalized.

[lapucelle]

40. Ah, yes. Whatabout this other rally?

[redqueen]

51. Fucking hell

I didn't see anything about this in the news.

[lapucelle]

70. Did you see anything about the pro-Hamas rallies on the news? N/T

[Mosby]

38. "Our young people are riding their bikes thru these settlements...

Where they were told they could never go because of Apartheid".

He said that.

And people applauded him.

[lapucelle]

45. It's a pretty interesting thread, isn't it?

SMH

[Cha]

43. It's also abundantly clear

some want to discredit that this is a DSA Hate Rally.

Poor DSA.. Cheers and rallies the day after Israels are Slaughtered by the Terrorist Fuckheads HAMAS & Protest against the US helping Ukraine.

I feel so sorry for them

[The Grand Illuminist]

60. Remember recent history.

There are those that will disrupt subliminally. This is more than likely Protest Warrior raided even though they have been in slumber for a good while.

[DFW]

71. One statement stands out to me

"Palestinian liberation is an essential part of our struggle for a socialist future, not a symbolic statement, and we are facing a question of how to achieve the power necessary to ensure we are victorious."

Even if there is a viable Palestinian State some day, who says they will choose to be socialist? That form of government usually ends up being quite authoritarian, and while it often works out fine for the rulers, it usually does not work out very well for those who are ruled under it.

"Es geschah was heute noch immer geschieht, wo Ruhe mehr gilt als Recht
"Denn wo die Herrschenden Ruhe wollen, geht's den Beherrschten schlecht"

Communist (at the time) bard Hannes Wader in his epic version of the Pied Piper (Der Rattenfänger)
The children of Hameln are protesting their elders' treatment of the Pied Piper, and the elders don't like it.

"It happened like it still happens today, where calm has more worth than justice
"Since where the rulers want calm, those ruled don't do so well."

[betsuni]

83. +1

[lapucelle]

88. DSA used that statement in the letter they sent to Rep. Jamaal Bowman

threatening to expel him for voting for the Iron Dome missile defense system.

On the Question of Expelling Congressman Bowman
December 2, 2021

As a socialist organization building mass, working class power for the freedom of all oppressed peoples under capitalism and imperialism, the Democratic Socialists of America (DSA) is committed to the Palestinian fight for freedom. Palestinian liberation is an essential part of our struggle for a socialist future, not a symbolic statement, and we are facing a question of how to achieve the power necessary to ensure we are victorious. It is within this context, the context of strategy, that we examine our relationship to DSA member and Congressman Jamaal Bowman following his egregious Iron Dome vote, meeting with Israeli Prime Minister Naftali Bennett, and recent trip to Israel with J Street, a pro-Israel lobby group.

https://www.dsausa.org/statements/on-the-question-of-expelling-rep-bowman/

[BlueCheeseAgain]

89. The DSA just issued a statement calling for the end of Israel, so...

[lapucelle]

90. Pariah status awaits the DSA.

And it can't come too soon.