We have DUers talking about using bulldozers on Gaza

[redqueen]

About getting ar15s

About all manner of things I honestly would have sworn I'd never see on du

Do people really not see this is how and why it never ends?

I can't help but see this as a very bad sign of things to come, when climate change starts affecting the food supply.

We have to be better at not marching to the drums of war every time those whose interests they serve start beating them.

[obamanut2012]

1. I agree, RQ

[redqueen]

2. And being accused of supporting Hamas,

of hating Jews, etc - simply for daring to say that maybe the bloodlust could be reduced a bit by considering that half the citizens of Gaza are children... I don't know what to say, I really don't

[obamanut2012]

3. Me either

[The_Casual_Observer]

21. There are lots of bait questions around here meant to start

"so you think it's justified? Yes or no???" Bullshit.

[SCantiGOP]

32. Spot on, redqueen

The same as you can detest Nazis yet still be horrified by the 25,000 civilians who were killed in the Dresden fire bombing.

[AntivaxHunters]

62. Helluva analogy bravo!

[ShazzieB]

75. Good example!

[JustAnotherGen]

88. I actually think Dresden was justified

And I'd love to see Ukraine pull a stunt like that in a Russian city that is making weapons of war.

Dresden had a little more than 120 factories in and around it in support of the German War effort: Machine guns, aircraft components, artillery, poison gas, etc etc. They also had a major artery of the rail system.Bernsdorf & Co. forced Jewish men and women to build machine guns. They had been at other camps prior to this, most were Polish.

The Russians were moving in from East Prussia, Auschwitz had been uncovered a few weeks before, and there was the problem of the bombing of London (Great Britain's pound of flesh).


February 1945 was a time of murderous death marches. The only bad thing about Dresden that it didn't happen a few months earlier. How many Jewish lives could have been saved if Germany had been humiliated sooner?
.

[homegirl]

123. Thank you

for putting this historical event in perspective. Too many do not know, or forget!

[Bettie]

121. Well said

good analogy.

[obamanut2012]

39. Someone just called you a Hamas apologist

In another thread.

You and I have disagreed about some stuff over the years, but I know you are a good egg, and I fumed when I saw that.

[Crowman2009]

70. And God forbid if you criticize the Likud government.

I got dumped on for that.

[RocRizzo55]

110. Very true

I am glad that I am not the only one who knows that more violence will not stop the violence, and that both sides are in the wrong.

[MayReasonRule]

118. Lies And Hate Are Two Edged Swords They Always Cut Two Ways

Ain't no way to end your days, bitter to the grave.

[GenXer47]

4. total agreement

Israel's gonna use bulldozers, we can't change that. But the gun thing - yeah. I'd say to those people, don't be so selfish. You're gonna buy this thing that puts you and everyone around you in danger, and then leave it for your heirs or other family to deal with. Or not deal with, more likely. They'll sell it to whomever, put it into circulation and continue increasing the odds of an innocent child being killed or simply add to the endless cycle of paranoia that redqueen has articulated. This is no way to raise kids, or build a life. Grow a pair. Get a dog or some pepper spray and call it a day.

[PCIntern]

11. Israelis, unlike Americans, are all Army trained and

know how to handle and managed weapons. This ain’t Illinois or Connecticut.

[Chicagogrl1]

43. Illinois?? As an Illinoisan, not sure what your comment means

[edisdead]

59. it means what it means.

Are all people in CT trained?

Poster was highlighting the difference in locales.

[RocRizzo55]

111. So you hate people in Illinois and Connecticut?

I am using your logic that you used for me in another thread.
How does it feel?

[Marius25]

5. I haven't seen any of that.

[Sympthsical]

49. This example is doing heavy lifting

For what is being implied to be a generalized sentiment.

It's a very small amount of people, IME, who have vocalized such thoughts. Very small.

It's a much larger group who are claiming they are somehow being victimized because their moral equivalence is being called out.

Which is just weird and navel-gazing to me.

[LiberalArkie]

79. I have no doubt that they will line up bulldozers and take down the Gaza hospitals with the people

inside. Just have to remember the bulldozers vs the protesters. Once the people get riled up, they can do anything.

It becomes just like a southern Lynch mob. Almost impossible to stop.

What was it in Revelations, rivers of blood.

[Celerity]

94. Oh, the number is small, for sure not a large amount at all, but it is greater than

these supposedly (I have not seen one, but I am open to being proven wrong) somewhat widespread 'pro-Hamas' DU posts that are being made the subjects of OPs and/or replies.

[Marius25]

97. We have people absolutely making excuses for Hamas.

If your first response to Biden confirming Hamas beheaded Jewish infants is "But Israel is just as bad", then you're making excuses for Hamas. And there are tons of those comments here.

[Celerity]

98. No there are not. You are trying to conflate broad historical analysis and a desire to see as few

civilians killed as possible during the necessary eradication of Hamas from power in Gaza with support for Hamas.

I have not seen one (here is your turn to show me examples) DU post that in reply to this (your words):

first response to Biden confirming Hamas beheaded Jewish infants

was this literally (your words):

"But Israel is just as bad"

I absolutely and universally condemn the actions of Hamas, and fully support their removal (by force) from any and all power.

I also want to see as much minimisation of civilian casualties whilst that kinect action is taken.

I absolutely and fully support the right of Israel to exist.

I also refuse to remove from the table of discussion the entire history of how we have arrived at this horrific time.

To try and remove a holistic discussion of all elements that make up this horrid stew, and to remove anything remotely bilateral/multilateral in terms of solutions simply dooms the cycle of death and misery to continue on ad infinitum.

[Marius25]

99. Nothing Israel has ever done compares to Hamas beheading babies. Sorry.

That's ISIS/Nazi territory.

[Celerity]

100. You are still trying to prop up the strawman you erected, apparently with no proof you can

provide.

No one here is arguing over the horrific nature of beheading babies. No one.

I agree that is Nazi/ISIS territory.

That said.....

No one (that i have seen, but again, I am more than open to being shown otherwise) here on DU is doing what you claim they are doing.

You claimed that posters here on DU's

(your words):

first response to Biden confirming Hamas beheaded Jewish infants

was this literally (your words again):

"But Israel is just as bad"

[Marius25]

101. Here is one specific example in direct response to Biden confirming beheaded infants:

"Atrocious as vaporizing children by the dozens in the dark with bombs from above.

It’s all atrocity, both/all/every side…from Ukraine to Afghanistan those in power dine while innocents die…. Atrocity is equal."

So we have posters here comparing Israel bombing Hamas targets in Gaza as being equal to Hamas beheading Jewish babies.

[Celerity]

104. that does not prove at all what you claim, not even close, but it seems you cannot reply, so

L'chayim!

Cel

[obamanut2012]

116. There is no proof they beheaded babies

Even teh White House has walked that back.

[Sympthsical]

102. I don't think anyone here is pro-Hamas

However, I do think ideological moral equivalence is causing some highly troublesome perspectives to be shared.

We have a problem with antisemitism on our side, full stop. No minor amount of the anti-Israel narrative and rhetoric derives directly from it. And while I understand and share the view that not all criticism of Israel is antisemitic, I do think focusing solely on Israel always and forever as the object of criticism to the near exclusion of other actors is, at the very least, indicative of some problematic attitudes.

When you have two actors, one of them committing atrocities for advertising purposes, and it's the other one you have to constantly harangue, criticise, and intimate they should just somehow suck it up and not respond, I want to know why they're being singled out for treatment in such a way that other involved entities are not.

And this criticism that reads as Jews just absorbing the abuse is a very bad look when historically contextualized, which it must be as long as the Holocaust and other atrocities remain in living memory.

I think some ideological ugliness has crept into our side in regards to Israel and Jews in general, and it has long been given a pass out of consideration for ideological coalition building. I remember in the early 00's, when I was in college and just coming out, encountering Queers for Palestine. Took me about three seconds to understand that was about hatred rather than freedom.

I know problematic attitudes and bigotry when I see it. Well, I see it, in whole or in part, in a lot of what is being said about all this.

[obamanut2012]

40. I have, and know who the poster was who said it

[sanatanadharma]

44. It is well to not need to see, and I have not seen any of the video gore ...

... but that fact does not negate the video gore.
I have read unsettling comments in the past few days.
Not the 'there is historic context' posts, but the raw, emotional, 'I don't care what happens to them' posts.

I actually applaud those who can say 'I have not watched any of the video atrocities.'

[Irish_Dem]

6. Yes this is just the beginning.

The planet is heating up, there will be climate migrants fighting for a livable temperature zone.
Fighting for food and water. Major power struggles.

Already the world autocrats want all the power and resources.
And they will fight hard to get it.

We better stay smart, calm and focused.

[BannonsLiver]

7. This event has been very clarifying

Although maybe for different reasons than stated in your OP.

[brush]

8. Passions are high in some on both sides.

Last edited Wed Oct 11, 2023, 07:03 PM - Edit history (1)

Innocents in Gaza and in Israel are suffering.

What upsets me is there seems to be little sympathy for the Palestinians who are crowded into that open-air prison and who have little control over what Hamas does.

Here's something on Netanyahu's policies which some think contributed to this disaster.

No one can excuse the horrific atrocities committed by Hamas in the last several days, nor deny Israel’s right to a response, which very likely will entail a full or partial reoccupation of Gaza and the methodical destruction of Hamas. But it’s also clear that Netanyahu’s policies helped create the conditions that led to the bloodiest few days in the history of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

“The horrific event we’ve just experienced—and the prolonged, massive Israeli counteroffensive to follow—cannot be fully understood in isolation from what I consider … a two-layered Netanyahu strategic failure,” said Nimrod Novik, the former senior advisor to the late Israeli Prime Minister Shimon Peres, who eagerly tried to pursue the Oslo process. First, Netanyahu and his current coalition —“the most extreme ever,” in Novik’s words—downplayed or ignored warnings from Arab signatories under the Abraham Accords about addressing Palestinian grievances, Novik said.

Second, for decades, Netanyahu pursued what Novik called the “illusion” that even under his draconian policies—which turned Gaza into what Human Rights Watch calls “the world’s largest open-air prison”—Hamas would abstain from the kind of attacks on Israel that might jeopardize its hold on power in Gaza, said Novik, who is currently a fellow with the Israel Policy Forum.

“His so-called ‘separation strategy’ rested on two legs: one, solidify Hamas control over Gaza, so that we have ‘an address’ and a governing entity with which to reach understandings over easing of closure in return for cease-fire. Second, weaken the Palestinian Authority, lest it emerges as a viable partner for negotiations, something Netanyahu has been determined to avoid,” Novik said. An Israeli official did not respond to a request for comment.

Netanyahu also pushed a controversial policy of weakening the judiciary inside Israel, in part to prevent the courts from protecting Palestinians from Israeli human rights abuses, which they did only occasionally. That push—described by Netanyahu’s critics as a judicial coup—set off waves of protests in Israel that have continued for months.


https://foreignpolicy.com/2023/10/09/israel-hamas-war-netanyahu-palestine-united-states-diplomacy-alliance/

[redqueen]

19. [phone]

[leftstreet]

46. +1

Thanks for posting that

[harumph]

50. If ever there was an example of "too clever by half" Netanyahu is it.

[brush]

56. Israel needs to ditch him just as we should trump.

[ShazzieB]

78. +100!

[Magoo48]

58. +1

[Jay25]

65. Thank you!

[LoisB]

77. +1000

[Nasruddin]

82. the open air prison

crowded into that open-air prison

This often-repeated statement has been bothering me. It used to bother me because it sounded so horrible.
Now it bothers me because I don't know what kind of prison it is where some of the inmates can acquire
thousands of rockets, drones, and weaponry (or the parts to make them), and stage the kind of massive breakout
we all saw over the weekend. And nobody knows nothing.

Something doesn't fit together here.

Netanyahu pursued what Novik called the “illusion” [viz that supporting Hamas in Gaza was useful]

This is another thing that bothers me. I had heard that before, but it seems to be confirmed or at least widely reported now. Why isn't this person not in a place with bars on windows and doors (a real prison) answering questions about his history of collaboration?

and who have little control over what Hamas does.

This is a third thing that bothers me, but I guess it can wait. Seems like it asserts something universal that is hard to prove or disprove, but frankly, mulling about it is unlikely to lead to anything useful.

I hope cooler heads prevail and something better than the horrors I can imagine will emerge.

[brush]

83. Hamas is not controlled by the general population there, over 40 percent children(try Iran pls).

Last edited Thu Oct 12, 2023, 03:17 AM - Edit history (1)

It's called a prison as most there have no where to go from that narrow strip of land. Netanyahu's draconian policies helped Hamas maintain control over Gaza...not good for the Palestinians and ultimately the innocent Israelis killed in the Hamas attack.

I have sympathy for both sides but it's coming through loud and clear you have little for the pawns/innocents in Gaza.

[onecaliberal]

84. 👆🏻👆🏻

Those people thinking the children in Gaza deserve it, better watch what they put in the universe. Americans live in a country that values guns more than children.

[brush]

86. It's sickening to me that some seem so hostile to innocents in Gaza.

Last edited Thu Oct 12, 2023, 03:21 AM - Edit history (1)

[onecaliberal]

89. I'm very disillusioned at this point. Block is my friend. If you can't see innocent people

You are without humanity IMO. No coming back from that for me.
Edit to add:Bin Laden said the dead people on 9/11 deserved it too because of the United States foreign policy.

[wnylib]

90. I doubt that Netanyahu's interference with the courts

had much, if anything to do with Palestinians. He was trying to save his own butt fue to his legal problems. Control the courts, make the legal problems go away, and entrench himself in office permanently.

He's not above using Hamas and Gaza for his own purposes, but he wants to control the courts to save his own a$$.

[brush]

108. Saving his own ass yes with the attempted court coup, but...

he did apparently push to keep Hamas in power in Gaza for control there. It backfired tremendously on him though.

He miscalculated, the Dunning-Kruger Effect was in effect, and it cost many lives on both sides.

[Chi67]

126. Agreed

100%

[MuseRider]

9. We all need to step back

and chill a bit before we freak out believing anything we hear. Who can we trust? How long do we have to wait to know what is really happening. Some of it we will know as it happens but these days we are all so eager to point a finger and draw up a side at a moments notice.

This is just my opinion, I walk a fine line here every day. We, thankfully are not there but do we really want to jump on every story that comes flying out of the area? We do know better than that. It is hard not to but all of this happening right now is something to think about before we start in on each other.

"We have to be better at not marching to the drums of war every time those whose interests they serve start beating them." Thank you for that redqueen.

[redqueen]

26. It is far too easy to turn people against each other

when it is only the leaders who benefit from the fighting.

[GreenWave]

10. And in my massive Naval community, the USS Liberty never gets an answer...

https://www.military.com/daily-news/2022/06/08/were-fed-it-survivors-of-uss-liberty-look-answers-55-years-later.html

I see these guys a lot.

[Hieronymus Phact]

87. oh that again

It happened during the 6 day war, inside the theater of combat. One of the major pitched battles of the 20th century. It had all the earmarks of a classic "friendly fire" tragedy but that's not a good enough answer for some.

it says as much in the link:

Israeli munitions ripped through the Belmont-class research ship with strafing fire, napalm and torpedoes as it patrolled Mediterranean waters performing signal intelligence -- "spy" -- missions during the 1967 Six-Day War between Israel and a coalition of Arab countries.

...And the Israelis paid reparations to the crew:

In May 1968, the Israeli government paid US$3.32 million (equivalent to US$28 million in 2022) to the U.S. government in compensation for the families of the 34 men killed in the attack. In March 1969, Israel paid a further $3.57 million ($28.5 million in 2022) to the men who had been wounded.

I believe the above because I'm a believer in Occam's Razor but stranger things have happened.

[LiberalFighter]

12. Let Biden and Israel handle it. It is what I say.

Biden has been talking to Bibi. Told him to follow the rules for war.

Nothing more for me to say.

[Mosby]

13. A Hamas leader is calling for a global Jihad against Jews.

Not Israelis, Jews. This Friday.

Better believe we will defend ourselves.

[Alexander Of Assyria]

20. Not with levelling Gaza and all innocents and terrorists in it, on this we can all agree!?

Or all they all terrorists? Babies, children, all women, all men…

When you are a nuclear power supplied mass weapons by the worlds leading arms supplier…

And so worthy of mass killing without warning or remorse? Even without the debunked Iran connection so much needed to justify more war…?

That is the question!

[Celerity]

53. +1

[Chautauquas]

119. +1

[Just_Vote_Dem]

54. And those of us who are not Jewish also have your back

[blueknight73]

64. Guarantee

This Jew will

[ShazzieB]

80. OMG.

Fuck.

I knew Hamas wanted to erase Israel from the map, which is horrible. I didn't know exactly how far their intentions extended. They CANNOT be allowed to succeed in ANY of their horrific aims. I'm glad our government is standing with Israel.

I regret any further harm that comes to any innocent civilians, but Hamas needs to be destroyed.

[Mosby]

81. Exactly right.

Nt

[Zeitghost]

14. Now do

Russia/Ukraine

[Crunchy Frog]

129. What about Russia/Ukraine?

[enid602]

15. Israel

I’ve spent much of the last few days wondering if the US wouldn’t be in the same position as Israel if it weren’t for FDR, JFK, LBJ, MLK, Obama, etc. Can’t the Israeli leaders see that the Gaza Ghetto is not much different than the Warsaw Ghetto?

[Mosby]

25. Yeah, it's exactly the same.

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

Hey maybe if the Jews didn't provoke Hitler they wouldn't have been confined to that awful ghetto, you know, where 300,000 Jews were murdered by bullets or gas at Treblinka.

Hope and pray the Gazans fare better, no concentration camps yet in Israel so that's a good sign. Fingers crossed.

[BannonsLiver]

28. Yes, the Warsaw comparisons are very uninformed

And of course offensive to Jews, which is probably not an accident in some cases.

[enid602]

33. Yeah, they've got it 'real good.'

No schools but a few run by the UN. No bomb shelters. 70% food insecure, per the UN. No citizenship. No freedom of movement. Petrol, electricity, food cut off at the Government’s whim. The biggest difference between Warsaw and Gaza is that the latter has festered for many decades.

[sarisataka]

41. Well that and the Warsaw ghetto

Was a holding area before sending occupants to Auschwitz. The Nazis never intended the ghetto to last very long.

BTW comparison between Nazis and Israel is, by definition, antisemitism. I will assume you were ignorant of that. Now you know.

[enid602]

45. All good

So it’s all good. So convenient.

[Marius25]

31. The two are nothing alike and it's offensive to compare them.

[sarisataka]

38. Not only offensive but antisemitic

Per the US State Department

[DemocratSinceBirth]

68. 2,000,000 Vietnamese civilians were killed for starters.

Every gentleman on that list, save Dr.King, were Commander In Chief and were in command when civilians were killed. War is awful.

[enid602]

74. Rights

Yes, we were in some wars, and people died. But all the while, progressives were trying to solve equal rights, income distribution and diversity issues. Hence, voting rights, war on poverty etc. All I’m getting out is of this group are articles showing how rich the Palestinians are, and that any comparison of the Israeli Government to despotic ones is the definition of antisemitism. It reminds me of conversations about race and rights in my conservative town in the 60’s.

[JustAnotherGen]

91. Did you really write this?

Can’t the Israeli leaders see that the Gaza Ghetto is not much different than the Warsaw Ghetto

The end game of ALL of the ghettos was the mass killing of every single Jewish person. There was no two state solution. There was no plan for peace. The solution was identified at the Wansee conference. The Germans wanted every single Jewish person removed from the planet.

Call it a Nazi Jihad.

[enid602]

93. Gaza

The Two State Solution and the plan for peace have been dead for a while. Yes, the ghettos were established by the Germans to accommodate the Final Solution. What is game plan for Gaza?

[JustAnotherGen]

109. Ask their leadership

Hamas holds the key to the end of this.

Give up all of the hostages, lay down their weapons, take their lumps, and let the Palestinians implement a new government.

If Israel lays down their weapons - Hamas won't stop until every single Israeli is dead.

If Hamas stops their terrorism - Israel will stop.

I will have zero empathy for those in Gaza until the hostages are released, and Hamas hands over the perpetrators of the terrorist activity.

I make no distinction between the behavior of Hamas and white American terrorists who inflicted terror on Tulsa, Rosewood etc etc. They behaved the exact same way.

[The_Casual_Observer]

16. I've seen "nuke the whole place I don't care anymore"

And lots of agreement.

It's fucking horrible around here.

[The_Casual_Observer]

22. And there is bound to be dozens of posts arguing with you about it too.

[Crowman2009]

71. They don't seem to care about the fallout.

By that I mean the radioactive fallout.

[Celerity]

17. K & R

[Alexander Of Assyria]

18. Shocking...and considering genocide of 2 million a fit...response??

In some nations the notion is a hate crime…in the UN it is.

[gay texan]

23. It pains me greatly

A fight over who has the better god.

Innocents butchered.....

[SouthernDem4ever]

61. yes, totally stupid

and a waste of humanity.

[TheRickles]

27. Thanks.

[niyad]

29. KNR

[GoodRaisin]

30. K&R

[onecaliberal]

34. Have people really missed the thousand of people in Israel protesting the authoritarian government

for months? That blaming every citizen for the war crimes of a terror organization is exactly what they criticize when it comes to Palestine? And can we stop pretending that Hamas is not authoritarian, sexist, homophobic regime that suppresses people in Gaza itself? They can flatten Gaza all they want. The innocent will be dead, but Hamas will still be kicking and killing.

[sarisataka]

35. We stand with Israel- Joe Biden

Questions asked-

Was the mass shooting of a concert wrong?
- but Israel...
Is the murder of Israeli children wrong?
- Gaza is an open air prision...
Is the murder and beheading of a baby (babies) wrong?
- Show pictures, how many babies, did it happen?

Ask me
Has the treatment of Palestinians been wrong?
-yes, Absolutely
Are all Palestinians Hamas?
-of course not
To the acts of Hamas justify genocide against Palestinians?
-that would be legally and morally wrong on every level

Why is it so hard for some to just answer the first questions before agreeing with the second?

Hamas does not stand for the Palestinian people’s right to dignity and self-determination.  Its stated purpose is the annihilation of the State of Israel and the murder of Jewish people.
 
They use Palestinian civilians as human shields. 
 
Hamas offers nothing but terror and bloodshed with no regard to who pays the price.

- Joe Biden

I stand with Joe

[duhneece]

36. K & R

[leftstreet]

37. DURec

[ratchiweenie]

42. I'd be happy to see bulldozers used against Hamas and probably

even Likud but not the Palestinian or Israeli people.

[Big Blue Marble]

47. I have read far too much of blood lust and revenge against innocences here.

I am deeply saddened by the dehumanization of Palestinian children who are suffering in
the hundreds of thousands.

How can DU's of all people so easily lose touch with their humanity?

[Calculating]

63. Because it's reality and there isn't always a nice answer

Sometimes two groups of people really hate each other and will fight until one side is removed as a threat. It's been like that throughout history. That's why it's good to avoid reaching the point where the whole world is disgusted by your actions and nobody will help you.

[Big Blue Marble]

67. Sorry that is a one sided comment that does not speak to the entirety of this tragedy.

Your comments are all too close to excusing genocide. against the Palestinian children. The violence is
from Hamas, not the million children of Gaza. And if both sides are fighting then why is only one side
a threat?

[cactusfractal]

48. Mhm. And when I express my desire

to help certain captains of finance have intimate, albeit exceedingly brief tours of the inner workings of vegetation processing equipment, pearls are breathlessly clutched.

[flashman13]

51. I was waiting for someone to say this. I have never seen any kind of similar uproar on DU that has

been created by the attacks on Israel. And much of the uproar is very ugly. It grieves me to say this, but many of the comments I have read sound as if it came right from the most rabid right wingers. It's scary to see how quick the knives come it.

I am going to end with this: Just because you hate the small number of people that committed the atrocities we have seen with this attack, you do not have license to afflict further atrocities on the non-combatants which they hide amongst.

Thanks for speaking up redqueen.

[Big Blue Marble]

69. And thank you for saying this truth.

Apparently, it needs to repeated again and again.

[Bucky]

52. Don't worry about the food supply after climate change

We have enough AR 15s to go in and take over Canada, where all the good growing and grazing land will be. Of course first we have to round them up from the NRA members, which I simply know about because that plan was all over Hillary's emails

[Warpy]

55. Good luck.

You're right, but good luck.

[IronLionZion]

57. The people who want to break the cycle are not as powerful

the people who benefit from continuing the cycle.

Even Bush and Trump had "peace plans" for Israel-Palestine. No effort was put into advancing it though. I guess that was Jared's job.

The people who actually want a peaceful solution don't have the influence to advance it.

[AntivaxHunters]

60. I've seen people call our elected Dem reps "idots!"

All aimed at Squad members.

Is that acceptable now on here?

[murielm99]

124. This situation does not have anything to do with the squad.

They are irrelevant here.

And WTF is an idot?

[AntivaxHunters]

127. It does have everything to do with the squad

And I think you're well aware that's a typo

[BidenRocks]

66. Gaza will need bulldozers

When this ends, it's like Hiroshima.
Clear it and rebuild better.
I don't see much left to save.
When this ends! No sooner.

[brooklynite]

95. Japan had a post-war Government that cared about its citizens.

[DBoon]

105. and the US had a somewhat intelligent approach

That allowed the Emperor to stay on as a figurehead, respected Japanese culture, and invested in Japanese recovery.

Despite pearl Harbor and the horrible atrocities committed by the Japanese during WWII, we supported rebuilding Japan as a modern peaceful society.

[moniss]

72. It seems that we are seeing the mindset

of some folks from 1947/49 coming back around. The British historians of the years prior to that can tell you all about terrorism, attacks etc. Ethnic cleansing. Sooner or later some people of either side in a fight will hold up as heroes their "warriors" who killed innocent grandmothers and children no matter which side "wins" or "loses". Then they'll go and wrap themselves in religious sanctity for what they've done to each other. The ones around the world who see it and call it out for what it has always been will be told they "don't get it" and are "anti" this, "pro" that or are "appeasers" etc. The biggest mirror in the world being held up to them all with each one refusing to look.

[Scrivener7]

73. I'm mostly avoiding DU. Thanks for this, redqueen.

[obamanut2012]

113. +1

[Bettie]

122. I try, I really do

but its habit now...and I'm starting to think it's a bad one.

[Scrivener7]

128. I hear you. For me "mostly avoiding" is only checking 3 or 4 times

and only posting 5 or 6 posts a day.

[Historic NY]

76. BTW the reason there is no power

because their power plant ran out of fuel. No because Israel turned it off.


https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/11/middleeast/gaza-power-plant-shuts-down-intl/index.html]

[progressoid]

92. Why did it run out of fuel?

[Celerity]

96. Israel stopped all supply to it, so they (Israel) actually did shut it down. From your own article:

[obamanut2012]

114. because Israel stopped the fuel supply into Gaza

[ForgedCrank]

85. When faced

with evil of this nature, you don't reason or negotiate with it, evil is uninterested. You destroy it so it can't come back again, because it will.

[Calculating]

106. this

Think the Nazi party.

[obamanut2012]

115. Yeah, I agree -- those five-year-old Palestinian kids are evil AF

Your rhetoric is very dangerous, and has been used by many evil regimes over the years.

[ForgedCrank]

117. Rhetoric?

Right back at ya bud

[DBoon]

103. I have no problem with holding those guilty of murder accountable

However mass slaughter in retaliation, mass relocation of 2 million people and the starving of civilians have no place on DU.

[RocRizzo55]

112. Exactly

I couldn't agree more.

[Straw Man]

107. Here's a sad truth.

If only one side is willing to kill children, that side will win. There is no such thing as a bomb that only kills adults. In the face of any restraint on the part of Israel, Hamas will happily sit in Gaza and launch missiles and terror raids against Israel in perpetuity. The Palestinian people are as much their hostages as Israel's.

Hamas has no interest in a peaceful solution. If one were achieved, it would be the end of Hamas. They would go the way of the Provisional IRA, fading into irrelevance as their power, funding, and influence dwindled away.

[stonecutter357]

120. K&R !

[róisín_dubh]

125. Eh they don't care.

I agree with you.
This place fucking sucks now. I’ve been here near on 20 years and I’m changing my password to something random in the morning and logging off. Forever. Because as a historian and a human rights expert, I cannot believe the shit I’m reading.

If you advocate killing kids, on whatever side, I hope there’s a hell for you.