Why are there so many Hamas apologists on here?

[Joe Cool]

Seriously, there should be zero excuses and zero support for Hamas at this point.

[LuckyCharms]

1. Who here is supporting Hamas?

[Joe Cool]

4. Read posts and comments

There is implicit support for Hamas.

Comments such as “But Israel….”

[LuckyCharms]

15. I don't see it.

The situation is complicated, but I'm hard pressed to find what you are stating.

I think people recognize the complexity of the situation, and want Hamas wiped out while not killing people who had nothing to do with the terrorist attack.

ESPECIALLY considering that a large portion of Gazans are young people.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

74. We would all like that

But it isn’t possible - innocent people are going to die as Hamas is hunted down and destroyed.

It’s awful, but the blame lies with Hamas, not Israel.

[LuckyCharms]

79. Who blamed Israel?

WTF is going on in this thread?

[SickOfTheOnePct]

82. If you've missed

The retaliation-by-Israel-will-be-war-crimes posts have been plentiful. If you haven’t seen it, fair enough.

[LuckyCharms]

88. Israel lives on the world stage too.

I don't think they have any interest in committing war crimes. As POTUS encouraged Israel, they should adhere to the "rules of war".

Their goal will be to eliminate Hamas, not to wipe out 2 million people.

I haven't really seen a post that accuses Israel of potentially committing war crimes in their response to Hamas.

[Marius25]

91. Look for the thread about bulldozing Gaza.

Look at all the posts accusing Israel's siege tactic of being a war crime.

[LuckyCharms]

93. OK, I'll look for it.

But my opinion is that Israel is rational, and while many innocents will be killed in Gaza, they will not cause the needless loss of life when it can be helped.

[Marius25]

95. Rep. Dan Goldman already said Israel is telling civilians where to hide

and doing roof knocks. Unfortunately, Hamas is telling them the opposite to try and get them killed so they can blame it on Israel.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

107. I agree with you 100% n/t

[womanofthehills]

122. There are now 1000 dead and 5000 injured Palestinians- half could be kids

I think it’s a war crime that Israel cut their electricity, medicine, food & water. A hospital and 2 schools were bombed. Can you imagine the pain these injured kids are in and nothing to stop the pain - no medicine - no opiates -no electricity- no water - no food - no surgery. I think that’s an international war crime. And they are trapped - no way to leave. In fact, the people trying to leave thru Egypt were bombed.

Sounds like war crimes to me.

[marybourg]

127. Read up a little further in this very thread.

Last edited Thu Oct 12, 2023, 12:21 AM - Edit history (1)

And also a new OP just posted a minute or so ago.

[Redleg]

97. Are you saying Israel has no agency?

I fully support the right of Israel to defend its people and its lands. I believe it is appropriate for the Israeli military to seek out and destroy Hamas. I would hope they could do this with minimal loss of life for innocent people in Gaza.

Israel is not being forced to annihilate Gaza. They get to choose how they proceed.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

110. I'm not saying they don't have agency

I’m saying that rooting out and eliminating Hamas will inevitably lead to the death of innocent people. Sad, but unavoidable.

[Redleg]

150. There will be collateral damage no doubt

There are more ways than one to root out and eliminate Hamas. I hope the Israelis choose ways that are effective and will minimize the death of bystanders. Same goes for those assholes in Hamas. They need to stop hiding behind the people of Gaza. I have more faith that Israel will carry out their operations with appropriate restraint than I do of Hamas doing the same.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

151. Same n/t

[womanofthehills]

179. But - we live in a different world now where everyone records everything on their phone

And hundreds of videos of children being bombed sits BAD with the whole world. This is becoming no longer just between Israel & Hamas but every Arab country will become involved and many innocent people around the world will be killed.

Shit - already on my Facebook page - friends are telling my NY Jewish friends to be very careful.

And, what’s with our CIA being warned about this many times and missing it - makes me feel insecure that a 9-11 could easily happen again. This has now become world wide. Then we read Biden was not told this info by CIA. Definitely need a new CIA director. Biden needs to fire director.

“US intelligence warned of the potential for violence days before Hamas attack”

“The New York Times also reported on the existence of some of the reports and that they were not briefed up to President Joe Biden.”
https://www.cbsnews.com/miami/news/us-intelligence-warned-of-the-potential-for-violence-days-before-hamas-attack/

[SickOfTheOnePct]

181. No country

Should be expected to forego their own self defense because of social media posts.

[womanofthehills]

189. Hello -this is 2023 - that's not a rational statement

When everyone in the world has a cell phone 📞 and they can send a video to social media in seconds. “Should” is an interesting word choice. Albert Ellis, the father of rational emotive therapy says we “should” always avoid the word “should” - it’s definitely too black & white.

I can make some “should” statements. Netanyahu “should have not bombed children” or the CIA “should have told President Biden” about the intel on Hamas that they had.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

190. Funny that

You didn’t think to say “Hamas shouldn’t have murdered 1200 people”

But I’ll change my verbiage.

No country has an obligation to forego their own defense or survival based on social media posts.

[womanofthehills]

193. I'll say it - Hamas "should" have not murdered innocent people"

But also “Netanyahu “should” not have bombed innocent babies and children, schools, UN buildings, ambulances, Red Cross Workers, UN workers, journalists, mosques, markets, apartments and hospitals and turned off electricity so all the preemie babies die and hospitals can’t do surgery on kids who have been injured & lost limbs.


Peace

Link to tweet

?s=46&t=YZgyyp4w_z7vW3neKxa6cQ

[iemanja]

140. Concern for Palestinians is not support for Hamas

Hamas is not the same as Palestinian civilians. Why can't people understand that basic fact? How is it that Palestinian life is treated so cavalierly here? Pretending concern for those lives means support for Hamas is a willful and deliberate misunderstanding.

[hlthe2b]

143. This demand for absolutism in every word expressed even while the DUer(s) referenced

are fully in support of Israel and its need to decimate Hamas--as though nothing could be said by those on this forum who support Israel the most that would be considered as such... Well, I just attribute it to the horror and resulting emotional pain and hope some balance returns to perspective.

But, a few posters seem to cross the line from their own understandable pain into indiscriminate lashing out at this community. For them, nothing is good enough, or supportive enough and I am sadly left wondering if division and disruption are the point. Sigh...

[Celerity]

175. +1

You posted this around noon on Thursday, my time (CET).

It is now early Sunday, my time, and the same false framings and invented attacks on nonexistent 'Hamas-supporting DUers' continue apace.

Their definition of what constitutes 'Hamas supporting' is wilfully tailored to induce a chilling effect and to put paid to any sort of holistic, factual historical discussion.

There are no Hamas supporters or sympathisers on this board (other than kamikaze troll burner accounts that are quickly snuffed out by MIRT) full stop, end of discussion.

This shambolic OP was a divisive, false trope-birthing attempt when it was posted days ago, and it remains that now.

The fact that the OP themselves, in their own thread, this thread, openly smeared me, called me TRUMP, (truly wtf!) exposes that there is bad faith afoot.

[SunImp]

180. +1 Showing concern for Palestinian suffering doesn't diminish the suffering of Israelis

[AntiFascist]

168. The leader of Hamas isn't even located in Gaza...

my feeling is that the attacks on Israel are being orchestrated by leaders who are located elsewhere, with little concern for what happens to Gazans and who have no problem using Gazans as human shields.

[vlyons]

16. Not me

nt

[Marius25]

60. Plenty of people are coming up with excuses or putting all the blame on Israel

[womanofthehills]

194. The Israeli people are putting the blame big time on Netanyahu & want him removed

He is a super right wing evil guy. He was so busy taking land from the West Bank for new settlements, he messed up big time. He then had to protect the new settlements because you can imagine how angry the people whose land was taken were. So, he took 90% of the IDF who were guarding Gaza and had them guard the illegal settlements. The people of Israel trusted him for their safety and he failed because of his greed. Then, it took the IDF 6 hrs to get to the border to help the people Hamas was killing. He could have flown the army in - in less than an hour.

[Eko]

2. I havent seen anyone on here supporting Hamas.

[brooklynite]

3. I think its less "pro Hamas" and more "anti Israel"

[Joe Cool]

6. Making excuses for Hamas

is supporting Hamas.

[LuckyCharms]

17. Who made excuses for Hamas?

[Marius25]

72. People who spend more time whining about the war crimes of Israel than what Hamas

did.

[LuckyCharms]

76. Do you have a link?

[Marius25]

80. It's against the ToS I believe to call people out like that

But there are threads like on the supposed bulldozing of Gaza or complaints about pro-Hamas students losing their job offers.

[MorbidButterflyTat]

99. Link to the thread(s)

Linking to thread(s) does not violate TOS. It's done all the time.

You've been accusing non-stop, let's see proof.

[Marius25]

100. It's easy to see all over this forum. Go find it.

[MorbidButterflyTat]

102. So....

nothing.

[marybourg]

113. Linking to threads generally is o.k.,

but this is a case where linking to a specific thread would amount to “negatively calling out” a member which is prohibited under the civility rule.

[Celerity]

125. +1

[Marius25]

112. I found some other responses in the Biden confirming beheaded babies thread

As soon as the topic was brought up, certain posters immediately jumped to "well Israel is just as bad, so both sides are the same" arguments.

Uh, heck no. Israel has never beheaded babies.

[obamanut2012]

153. The WH walked that back -- no confirmation of beheaded babies

[hlthe2b]

145. Marius25, it pains me that you meet supportive comments with as much disdain as you do those that

Last edited Thu Oct 12, 2023, 09:44 AM - Edit history (4)

(edited for typos, grammar, punctuation)

you feel are not meeting your very specific and measured criteria for adequate Hamas disdain. I thought I had made some progress relating to you a day or so ago, but now it seems not.

Those who most want to comfort those on DU most in pain, reassure, and express support are held to an impossible standard. It must be absolute, using the only words found "acceptable" down to the order of words and even grammar necessary, and can never express concern about what would potentially come even if the most measured and cautious response is undertaken by Israel and its allies--and thus planned for. The area is and has long been a powder keg. One might think such concerns could be expressed without being twisted into support for Hamas, Iran, Hezbollah, or antisemitism. But the latter is what is happening on DU. As Pres. Biden said in his eloquent, very Israel-supportive speech (and later Sec. Blinken yesterday) observed that after stressing the most robust support for Israel against Hamas--there is likewise the need to caution about what is acceptable in war and what is not. That is not a withdrawal of support. It is an observation that the horror of what has occurred will and has quite expectedly incited discussion of "a no-holds-barred" response. Thus, the Biden admin is working behind the scenes directly with Israel and Egypt to find some solution to prevent innocent Palestinians--especially the children--from being collateral damage and to find an evacuation solution. That is not anti-Israel/pro-Hamas. That is pro-humanity. That is not to in any way allow this effort to replicate the horror on innocent civilians that Hamas has committed on Israel. There can be no false equivalency and that requires following the long agreed-upon rules of war--even while Hamas will not. Yet some here would accuse the Biden administration of being pro-Hamas as a result because not 100% of their effort is being directed at a decimating no-holds-barred Gaza-destroying response.

I have considerable depression myself over what has happened and nightmares over the reported horrors--especially those coming from the abducted or missing or dead victim's families in interviews. I can only imagine that compounded for some of our Jewish DUers. But the failure of some to recognize that the vast majority of DUers are on the side of Israelis and America's Jews and horrified by Hamas-- and the constant accusations toward the very people who are-- is unbelievably divisive at a time when we should all be pulling together. If the support offered is not directed in the way you'd like then offer ways in concrete ways in which it could be (e.g., charitable organizations for the victims; petitions, or phone campaigns for political officials seemingly reticent to offer support to Israel needed, or concrete steps to be taken to address risks domestically from antisemitic White Nationalists and others). Or you can continue to scour DU for the rare inappropriate comments that were (and should be) ignored as the likely trolling efforts they largely are. But, these internal attacks on DUers as a whole and concerted efforts to perceive slights where they are not intended as overt disloyalty or support of Hamas need to stop. I'm sorry if that is harsh, but I believe some tough love is needed now. And that is what is being offered.

[Attilatheblond]

186. Thank you. Calm, rational thought is wise, not pro-Hamas

But too often, rational thinking applied to such horrors is attacked. No peace will come of that sort of volatility

[womanofthehills]

196. But they didn't succeed in saving the babies

No one on here is anti-Israel - but many of us are anti Netanyahu- and we join with the Israeli people who want him removed We love the people in Israel and Palestine but hate the leaders. Admit it - Netanyahu is a super right wing a hole. 75% of the people of Israel want him gone.

[hlthe2b]

197. Yes to Netanyahu and his Likudist government being the problem, but that is something

some refuse to distinguish in their zeal for absolutism in terms of our already widespread support for Israel. Had Netanyahu not been so focused on destroying the Israeli judiciary (to protect himself from corruption charges) that led to incredible backlash and protests--even from the military--I truly believe Israel would not have been caught so off-guard by this horrific Hamas attack.

[marybourg]

130. And a lot is complete unawareness of the 75 year long

history of Palestinian warring on and terrorizing Israeli citizens openly and with claim of right, and refusing to compromise and to live alongside Israel, which has caused Israel to blockade them into Gaza . It’s as if they believe that Israel has taken that step “ because of Bibi” or because the Palestinians “are POC”( yes, I read that here on DU) and are just innocent victims of bad luck.

[womanofthehills]

184. No one is anti Israel but big time anti - Netanyahu

The people of Israel want him gone.

He was so busy taking land from the people of the West Bank - he took 90% of the IDF guarding the Gaza border over to protect the new settlements he put on Palestine land. He was being such an a hole to the people of the West Bank, he probably took his intelligence wrong - thinking the attach would be there.

[ForgedCrank]

5. Yea, I

would also like to know who here is standing in support of Hamas. I have not see that happen here

[Joe Cool]

9. A lot of excuses for Hamas

which is tacit support for Hamas.

[ForgedCrank]

14. I see

support for Palestinians, not Hamas.
Are you confused and thinking they are one in the same? They are not. There are a lot of citizens there who are living under the suppressive rule of terrorists.

[obamanut2012]

45. Nope

[Tomconroy]

7. The democratic party is a very big tent. Sometimes a bit

Too big by my lights.

[RockRaven]

8. Point out specific posts, if you could...

It would facilitate getting you a serious answer to your question.

[Joe Cool]

11. Go read posts and comments

There are too many to count.

“But Israel….”
“If Israel….”

All implicit support for Hamas.

[LuckyCharms]

19. Link?

[Joe Cool]

22. Go through and read posts and comments.

[LuckyCharms]

29. I read almost every post. Seriously, I don't see it.

[Celerity]

31. No, the onus is on YOU to show the receipts for your claim. You made it, back it up.

[Joe Cool]

39. Are you unable to read the "But Israel" comments that have been on this board

since this weekend?

[Just_Vote_Dem]

50. +100 n/t

[Celerity]

55. Again you are erecting false framings, as well as providing no evidence of actual 'pro Hamas'

postings.

Post some actual 'pro Hamas' posts.

Your definition of what is 'pro-Hamas' is invalid from the start, as best I can tell.

Post some actual 'pro-Hamas' DU posts and prove me wrong.

[former9thward]

89. Call outs are against the DU TOS.

You know that.

[MorbidButterflyTat]

104. How very convenient

"It's everywhere!!1!!!"

"Where?"

"Can't tell you. But it's everywhere!!!!11!!! Outrage!!1!!!!!"

[Celerity]

105. You can do so without showing the posters name, or simply post a link to the entire OP thread

where there were posts that supposedly did what was claimed, thus that is not a personal call out against an individual.

If anyone is just allowed to claim anything (true or not) in regards to other DUers, without any evidence, it very likely will devolve into a smear machine against an entire group of DUers.

This OP is a perfect example.

It erects a strawman and then uses that false framing to falsely label (as 'pro Hamas') any type of valid critique, and/or historical backgrounding, and/or innocuous anti war crimes statements. All without one whiff of proof.

It is pure conflation and the smearing of a large number of DUers.

[Disaffected]

111. +1

Criticism of Israel does not equate to support of Hamas.

[ExWhoDoesntCare]

169. That's not a call out

It's expecting people to back up their claims.

That's the bare minimum standard for living in reality.

[Dorian Gray]

66. There are a few

posts that are shockingly ignorant and one in which a poster insinuated Israel wanted to commit genocide. SO that may be what you're talking about.

But the response to those posts overwhelmingly challenge the poster.

So, if you said there were anti-Israel or Anti-Jewish posts, I may have agreed with you. But specifically pro-Hamas? No. Haven't seen one of those.

And in full fairness to this board, as I said above, most of the anti-Israel posts have been met with MUCH pushback. It certainly isn't the overwhelming sentiment here to criticize Israel or the Jewish population around the world.

[ForgedCrank]

83. What I see

is you doing a thing I often do see here.

Israel is not infallible, but that statement does not equate to me in any way supporting Hamas or their behavior.

I say it's dark, you insist that no, it's raining.
You do realize it can be both true at the same time, don't you?

[Celerity]

108. False frame. The words 'but Israel' certainly do NOT auto-equate to pro-Hamas, nor support for them

The words 'but Israel' can be used in hundreds of different ways in thousands if different sentences.

Without specificity, it is absolutely invalid to claim that they connotate a 'pro-hamas' stance.

I fucking hate Hamas, I hope they are eradicated from power on a permanent basis. I hope they all are held to account for the savage butchery and war crimes they have done..

I also want to see as few civilians (on both sides) as is possible killed in order to do so.

I do not want see any more war crimes committed (going back in a long historical basis) by either side.

[MorbidButterflyTat]

101. +1

[DBoon]

134. You understand that the OP is making a claim that is impossible to verify ...

... without violating DU rules?

Making any resolution impossible.

[Celerity]

136. Posting a thread link is not against TOS, I have seen it done hundreds (thousands?) of times

in regards to someone commenting on the actions of posters here (or the overall subject of an OP).

This very OP is calling out DU posters, ones who I do not believe exist in terms of doing what it claims they are doing.

Is this board to now going to devolve into generalised smearing (and thus erecting a false narrative) via what may well be invented claims?

At what point does objective truth get tossed out?

[DBoon]

137. so you are saying the OP *could* provide evidence via thread links

but is instead letting the accusations hang out in thin air?

[Celerity]

139. They theoretically could, but in reality likely cannot, as I maintain no one here is dong what

they claim.

No DUer is pro-Hamas (other than random trolls who have been removed by MIRT, and those trolls are (unless they are real Nazi types) likely not even pro-Hamas themselves, they are chaos agents just trying to wreck and destroy the board via shit-stirring)

The OP erected a strawman constructed out of whole cloth.

[RockRaven]

23. So you are asking why so many people post things that you interpret as support for Hamas?

Perhaps that's part of the answer -- your interpretation... If you took everyone's words literally, without inferring anything, would you still see so many posts supporting Hamas?

[obamanut2012]

47. Nope

[marybourg]

52. I don't believe that is permissible under our site rules.

Maybe someone more knowledgeable could opine?

[stopdiggin]

69. certainly isn't. I routinely see links to previous posts -(nt)-

[marybourg]

114. Linking to threads generally is o.k.,

but this is a case where linking to a specific thread would amount to “negatively calling out” a member which is prohibited under the civility rule.

[stopdiggin]

117. I see the distiction. thanks.

(in this case there seems to quite a bit of desire to seem some back-up or documentation .. )

[AntivaxHunters]

10. Are you perhaps confusing the plight of Palestinian

people with support of Hamas?

[Joe Cool]

13. No, I'm pointing out the

“But Israel….” comments.

[AntivaxHunters]

133. There's 2 sides in this conflict

And I think that's important.
We are after all talking about something which has been going on for 75 years.

What Hamas did & has done is horriific. It's one tit-for-tat extract revenge conflict. We need peace immediately.

[Voltaire2]

149. 'But Israel' is not 'Go Hamas!'

[Joe Cool]

20. Maybe the Palestinians should stand up to Hamas for once.

[uponit7771]

61. With their fist and forks or maybe voting Hamas out of office?

[DBoon]

128. Maybe the Russians should stand up to Putin, too

Maybe the Haitians should stand up to the criminal gangs ruing their country as well

Opposing and overthrowing a violent criminal gang is a very difficult task

I'm sure Hamas would deal just as cruelly with internal dissidents as they have with Israeli citizens.

[AntivaxHunters]

131. People who are oppressed often can't

[ExWhoDoesntCare]

172. That never occurs to people determined to hate someone

Those of us who know history and, well, reality in general, know how difficult it is to stand up to oppressive organizations or regimes.

You'd think these people screaming about the Palestinians needing to stand up to Hamas would consider how well "standing up to a violent oppressor" turned out for the Native Americans.

[AntivaxHunters]

174. Exactly. Well said

[DBoon]

132. Hamas is a violent criminal organization

standing up to Hamas would at a minimum get you murdered and probably most of your family as well.

Where there is no organized state apparatus, criminals gangs take over. Similar to Somalia years ago. Without an organized social framework (including an organized government) you have no mechanism for organizing and taking power. How would you govern? By setting up a rival gang of thugs and shooting it out?

Someone in Palestine can't simply declare themselves a candidate for office and hope to gain majority support.

In other situations, the domestic military would take control and enforce order. No such military existing in the Palestinian territories.

[leftstreet]

12. So many new people here on DU! It's just wonderful!

Welcome, welcome

[Joe Cool]

18. People obviously missed the word APOLOGISTS

“Oh, Israel shouldn’t attack Gaza because….”

Too bad, the people of Gaza then need to do the right thing and stand up to Hamas. Silence is consent.

[pwb]

21. Are you thinking of the women and children and the Palestinians?

Everybody that is not Israeli is Hamas to you? Kill them all? There are so many more players in this than Hamas. ??

[pwb]

32. You have it all figured out.

If you want everyone to think like you you are in the wrong party. We have people from all sides right here so there's that.

[pwb]

38. Says you. So eh?

Be careful, you don't know me. Many others do.

[LuckyCharms]

44. Take it easy there, pal.

[Joe Cool]

26. The women and children who support Hamas?

Should they get any sympathy? Sorry, the Palestinians need to stand up to Hamas or they should get zero sympathy.

[obamanut2012]

154. "The women and children who support Hamas"

Seriously???? THE CHILDREN WHO SUPPORT HAMAS ARE TERRORISTS??????? CHILDREN WHO SUPPORT HAMAS

Are you even thinking before you write out that children are supporters of Hamas and complicit, Children.

JFC

[Celerity]

25. Absolute strawman and false framing. Show these 'pro Hamas' posts on DU.

You can easily do so without naming the poster of the posts, so that is not a valid excuse to not produce the receipts for your claim.

[Joe Cool]

28. Read through posts and comments as I have done all day.

Not condemning Hamas and making excuses for them is all over DU.

[LuckyCharms]

33. You're wrong.

[Joe Cool]

35. No, I'm right.

I’ve read enough comments.

[LuckyCharms]

41. If you say so then.

[Celerity]

37. No, YOU made the claim, it is on you tp back it up. Speaking out against war crimes (potential

or already transpired) on both sides is hardly 'pro Hamas'.

[obamanut2012]

59. You just called Celerity "Trump"

Wth is wrong with you.

[Celerity]

85. thank you obamanut

[obamanut2012]

155. Varsgod!

[pwb]

77. What does trump have to do with this? Right he killed Soleimani.

That didn't inspire Iran? Another player.

[Celerity]

81. Why did you just call me Trump! Fucking outrageous smear, shameful!

[PufPuf23]

124. Looks to me like the poster was deliberately inciting DU strife with this thread. nt

[obamanut2012]

156. I agree

It worked, but only a little I'm happy to see.

[demmiblue]

160. Yep. n/t

[kwolf68]

27. Maybe its not PRO Hamas

But anti war-crimes.

Why is it wrong to ask for people to be rational and logical. YES, go get those responsible, but indiscriminate killing of civilians accomplishes nothing more than pushes more Palestinians into the arms of Hamas. And it's also a war crime.

I weep for the Israeli innocents slaughtered, but the only people who should pay retribution are those who carried out the crimes. And I'd love to see Hamas hung from the nearest tree, but not sure I'm comfortable with a Palestinian child or baby bombed while sleeping in his/her bed.

[Joe Cool]

30. I don't see any Palestinians protesting against Hamas.

Why not?

[Tomconroy]

86. I haven't either. I have seen demonstrations celebrating the attack.

Perhaps you are like me and want to see an unambiguous condemnation of the Palestinian slaughter of innocent civilians on Saturday prior to complaints about Israel's actions, which at least so far have been restrained in the circumstances.

[Just_Vote_Dem]

92. It's always "But Israel..." n/t

[Tomconroy]

96. I don't think it can be denied that much of the far left here in the US

is reflexively anti anything Israel. Here on DU some people may be biting their tongues a little at the moment.

[Disaffected]

116. Maybe because it could be a

quick trip to jail or the graveyard?

[Joe Cool]

34. The Palestinians now have their chance to destroy Hamas themselves.

If they don’t, too bad. They have their opportunity to do the right thing. Silence is consent.

[LuckyCharms]

57. Probably for the same reason that US citizens haven't wiped out all the MAGATs.

[Sky Jewels]

94. Right?

It's just so easy to just get rid of the extremists in your midst...no problemo!

[Disaffected]

119. That is an utterly simplistic

and unrealistic expectation. If it's that straightforward, maybe you should go help destroy Hamas yourself(?).

[obamanut2012]

40. Zero Hamas apologists here, stop it

[Joe Cool]

46. "But Israel"

I’ve seen plenty of those comments.

[obamanut2012]

62. Just stop it

[MorbidButterflyTat]

109. +1

This thread is a ridiculously stupid waste.

[Marius25]

115. Not true. Go look at the Biden confirms beheading thread.

Tons of posts making excuses for Hamas beheading babies.

Go look at the thread on Bulldozing Gaza. Tons of excuses and whataboutisms.

[obamanut2012]

147. No there isn't

Last edited Thu Oct 12, 2023, 10:45 AM - Edit history (1)

And there is no proof babies were beheaded.

[Patton French]

187. No, they're allowed to speak.

And the point is valid.

[Joe Cool]

48. For what, pointing out the Hamas apologist attitude on this site?

[TomDaisy]

49. Read the DU rules.

[Tomconroy]

98. Jury disagreed, huh?

[lapucelle]

144. It's very safely one step removed,

and more a case of folks being apologists for pro-Hamas apologists.

And of course there's a lot of spinning going on. Useful idiots on twitter who thought they had staked out morally superior ground are beginning to realize how badly they were used. They're embarrassed and lashing out.

[Autumn]

51. No one here is supporting Hamas. However there are those of us who support the Palestinians.

There is a big difference between Hamas and the Palestinian people.

[Joe Cool]

56. Why don't they rise up against Hamas then?

Is that happening? Nope.

[leftstreet]

67. The members here on DU?

I'm not sure how that would work logistically...

[LuckyCharms]

71. Because while they are suffering badly, they are not yet suffering badly enough

to risk their lives.

[stopdiggin]

90. and they have children they would rather not orphan

(or themselves grieve .. ) ??

People will desperately cling to survival because - they are human?

[stopdiggin]

87. this is extremely simplistic

why aren't the North Koreans rising up against Kim? The Iranians against the mullahs? Indigenous South Americans against murderous troops and land grabs .. ?

You argument is falling to pieces as you pursue your "no sympathy" line ..

[ExWhoDoesntCare]

170. Why didn't black people rise up against Jim Crow?

Why didn't Jews rise up against the Nazis?

And what so often happens to people who do rise up against oppressors? Ask the Lakota Sioux about how standing up turned out for them.

It's easy to tell oppressed people to do something against violent oppressors. It's a whole bloody lot harder to do it--and even more difficult to get the oppression to stop.

It takes a familiarity with reality to comprehend something so bloody basic.

[bigtree]

198. I was almost believing you

Last edited Sun Oct 15, 2023, 10:25 AM - Edit history (1)

...until I saw here that you're conflating Hamas and all Palestinians.

Here you are asking of an impoverished refugee community which is half children, 40% under the age of 15, why these unarmed, non-combatant civilians don't 'rise up' against armed militants who are killing civilians without a care.

[Joe Cool]

53. Any comment that does not unequivocally condemn Hamas

and includes “But Israel” is an apologist for Hamas.

[Marius25]

54. It's a left-wing forum, and while most of the people here are no pro-Hamas

there are a lot of left-wing people in general who are either outright supporting them, coming up with excuses for them, or both sidesing everything.

It's honestly disgusting. Definitely explains why my Jewish social media outlets always talk about being politically homeless.

[Joe Cool]

58. Yep, and people are denying it.

[Just_Vote_Dem]

78. + a million n/t

[egduj]

63. Support might be a stretch, but there is a fair amount of rationalizing what Hamas is doing.

[stopdiggin]

64. I'm seeing almost nothing of the sort

what I have seen is a lot of posts/posters that are insisting on an absolutist (b&w) narrative - with virtually no room for qualification, interpretation, historical perspective, analogy, nuance - and on ...

Support for Hamas' bloody terrorism .. ? Almost virtually zilch. At least here on DU. (and that is where the OP is firing its guns)

[hlthe2b]

103. Yup. Absolutist right down to the preferred "wording"... Nothing else acceptable.

Heavens...

[stopdiggin]

106. one just might reach for a word .... such as, intolerant? -(nt)-

[Iggo]

68. Okay, that's enough.

[NewHendoLib]

70. I've not seen that at all

[Autumn]

75. I seriously doubt there is a singe Hamas supporter or Hamas apologist on this site.

[Xolodno]

73. No clue as to what you are talking about.

Myself and everyone else has stated that the leadership of Hamas needs to be eliminated once and for all. Some have pointed out, including myself, Netanyahu has ruled for 15 years and enabled them. Even pulling military units away from Gaza to help settlers in the West Bank. You do know the Palestinian Authority which was once the PLO hates Hamas with a passion? Hamas violently evicted them from Gaza and thankfully, failed in the West Bank. And Netanyahu has made sure they could never retake Gaza for his own personal grab for power.

And he was warned on top of that, and STILL ignored everything. Egypt told him shit was about to go down in Gaza and he just basically yawned. I'll say it again, this attack is a symptom and not the disease and will happen again until we eliminate the disease. Your average Gaza Palestinian is just trying provide for their family, and probably hate Hamas (particularly when their relatives it the West Bank boast how good things are). However, when you see your neighbor being dragged by a car and executed for being a Palestinian Authority supporter and don't have any weapons, you just try to survive and hope for better days. They probably don't want this war anymore than anyone else, but they have no say and no means to get rid of their rulers.

[Maru Kitteh]

84. Going to guess you've been hit with a barrage of "Nobody said that"

But yeah, it's pretty sickening. Rationalizing Hamas' actions and/or excusing the raping of women to death and the beheading of babies as "inevitable" IS supporting Hamas.

[Marius25]

118. Yeah there's tons of "nothing to see here!" responses to this.

[Disaffected]

120. Excuse me but,

your characterization of the comments of the great majority (all?) of those who have expressed here any criticism of Israel is nonsensical and slanderous (IMO).

[lapucelle]

135. Do those same people think that the wholesale slaughter of Israeli civilians

made war "inevitable"?

Why, no they don't.

[jcgoldie]

121. Recognizing that 2 million civillians don't deserve death due to the actions of a terrorist group...

... is not apologizing for Hamas. Nor is it anti-Semitic to appreciate that this is about the most complicated situation in the world, maybe in the history of the world and not at all simple and one-sided as many here would like to believe. The actions of Hamas were brutal and terrible and inexcusable... that does not justify razing a city of 2 million innocent people.

[RANDYWILDMAN]

123. Iarael is fine but Likud party is a disaster

The likud party has caused so much damage under the guise of nationalism/protectionism does that sound like a party we know


Hamas is not good, and doubt anyone here is supporting them

What people could be supporting is

Equality for the palestinians.

Maybe the the ability to move unfettered from Gaza to the West bank and back again at your pleasure and without hassle


*** When my Palestinian friend here in the US travels to Gaza with their family they travels alone, because they get detained a lot and profiled.

[lapucelle]

129. That's a great question.

In general (on social media), it's probably not so much being pro-Hamas as relying on a pro-Palestinian posture as cover for virulent hatred of Israel. The DSA proved as much at their march in NYC.

The harrumphing "How dare you!" responses, the dissembling "whatabouts", and the insistance on a more "nuanced" perspective on the targeted, deliberate, calculated, wholesale slaughter of civilians are already petering out on twitter.

There's been lots of backpedaling already, which is a good sign.

[scipan]

141. Who??? Strawman.

One doesn't count.

[BWdem4life]

142. Unrec. nt

[Celerity]

146. +1

[ProfessorGAC]

148. Top 10 Worst OP Ever

Silly argument, specious logic, moving goalposts.

[obamanut2012]

152. Agreed

OP is just attacking and being rude all all DU.

[hlthe2b]

157. Yup

[Patton French]

162. Nope. NT

[ProfessorGAC]

163. If I Were You...

...I'd get used to being wrong.

[demmiblue]

165. Heh.

[Celerity]

176. well played

[LexVegas]

166. ...

[ExWhoDoesntCare]

173. And bigoted in the extreme.

I've been dinged for far less than this.

[Celerity]

177. +10

[demmiblue]

158. ...

You're so obvious.

[LexVegas]

159. Don't know but antisemitism has been around for millenia.

[Patton French]

161. That's a really good question.

A few are very vocal. I wish I understood.

[demmiblue]

164. ...

[Kali]

192. LOL

that is great!

[NotVeryImportant]

167. The attitude of the OP won't help Israel.

This bloodlust that's going on, basically world-wide for the Palestinian people isn't sustainable.

Most people are going to come to their senses and reject it in a major way.

Watch...

[totodeinhere]

183. The atrocities committed by Hamas against innocent Israeli children and grandmothers are

not sustainable either.

[Crunchy Frog]

171. Being critical of Israel isn't the same thing as excusing Hamas.

[Act_of_Reparation]

178. Weird how some Democrats in 2023 are starting to sound like Republicans circa 2001.

[totodeinhere]

182. I am by no means a Hamas apologist. I understand that Israel is fighting an enemy that wants to

exterminate it. But at the same time I am deeply concerned about the fate of Palestinian civilians who are not a part of Hamas. And showing that concern does not mean that I am anybody's apologist.

[ripcord]

195. The problem is that we have a number of people who won't pass the Hamas test

[Kennah]

185. They're all across the globe, so why not here?

[William769]

188. K&R.

[JanMichael]

191. I have seen posts supporting genocide here, so what?

[Fresh Water Falling]

200. What of Israel's Apologists?

Breaching the 1947 borders? No problem? Occupying land you've no claim to? Hey, ask any Native American what we did! Ignoring UN Resolutions? The good ol' USA gotcha covered! Want us to go war with Iran for ya, like we did with Iraq? Just say the word! There's no such thing as spilling too much American blood for Israel, because you're our best buddy! Let's just forget about the USS Liberty, Jonathan Pollard, Rachel Corrie, and all those inconvenient breaks in the rosy illusion!