This is a war crime

[AntivaxHunters]

Link to tweet

And just to remind everyone...

[beaglelover]

1. Disagree. They want the power and water back, give back the hostages.

[meadowlander]

4. The 1 million kids in Gaza don't have the hostages.

Neither do their grannies in the hospitals that are about to lose electricity for their ventilators and dialysis machines.

[BlueCheeseAgain]

5. Their government does.

When Russia invaded Ukraine, the West swiftly moved to impose sanctions and hurt the Russian economy, even though it would hurt the Russian people collectively. Is that also a war crime?

[TomDaisy]

21. this is who has the hostages?

Link to tweet

Russia isn't an open-air prison. Gaza is.

Deciding to cut off food, water and heat from prisoners in a cage is different than blocking select products to a country that is part of the modern world economy.

[BlueCheeseAgain]

32. I don't think the prison analogy really works here.

There are plenty of countries in the world that can help. Plenty that are strong enough to ignore Israel's protestations and send aid themselves. Why is it up to Israel-- the country that was just attacked by the government of Gaza-- required to keep supplying Gaza?

[TomDaisy]

34. So the Hunger Games participants should rely on the whims of patrons for food and meds.

[BlueCheeseAgain]

44. I have no idea what that means, having never seen the Hunger Games.

[AntivaxHunters]

55. Excellent series! You really should

[MadameButterfly]

84. because Israel controls all entry of supplies for Palestine

Because Netanyahu has had a policy of propping up Hamas and denying unity between Gaza and the West Bank to prevent a Palestian state. He ignored warnings of this attack.

Because Palestinian civilians do not live in a democracy and don't control Hamas.

Because half of Gazans are children.

[EX500rider]

89. They do not, Gaza shares a border with Eygpt

[SickOfTheOnePct]

63. An open air prison

Created by Hamas and the Palestinians who voted for them.

[MadameButterfly]

74. Palestine is not really a democracy any more

(and we soon might not be either). Sometimes people don't understand the implications of voting for people with authoritarian tendencies. I've read that Palestinians who refuse to support Hamas are denied medical care and other basic services.

The people can't win and they can't leave.

[AntivaxHunters]

33. Economic sanctions aren't the same as killing power in a hospital

Sheesh.
That's like comparing a Hot Wheels car to a 2024 Ford Shelby Mustang.

Both are cars but both are also very different.

[BlueCheeseAgain]

41. The point of economic sanctions is to hurt an economy and cause suffering.

Certainly the West was hoping Russia would suffer inflation, unemployment, and instability. If you're saying not all collective punishment is a war crime, then I can see that. But people seem to be saying anything that doesn't directly target a military asset is off limits.

As for fuel for power, the problem is that it can be used for many things. If Hamas got access to more fuel, how much of it would be used for hospitals, and how much for carrying out military operations? If there was a way to guarantee that any fuel would only by used for humanitarian purposes and not war, I'd certainly think everyone would have a moral obligation to enable that.

[AntivaxHunters]

60. Yes but it's important that we make the distinction

That these are 2 very different birds.
One is immediate while the other is not.

Think of it this way, not to be dramatic but...
Our economic sanctions on Cuba are not the same as putting someone in an electric chair or having them die by lethal injection..

Babies in incubators rely on oxygen. They will suffocate to death in literal minutes.

What matters here is peace through humanity, compassion, & empathy. And that is what we should all be pushing for.
An eye for an eye violence leaves everyone blind..

[MadameButterfly]

79. The purpose of the sanctions was to inhibit their military

though it had implications for civilians. But the US did not impose a blockade for all food, medicine, and electriciy for Russians nor is it bombing civilians.

[BlueCheeseAgain]

82. It was to hurt the economy overall.

How does kicking Russia off credit card processing systems hurt the military?

[MadameButterfly]

86. Putin needs money to fund the military

He takes it from the Russian economy.

[beaglelover]

6. They should make appeals then to Hamas to give back the hostages so they can

get the power and water they so desparately need to survive.

[meadowlander]

50. Yes, get right on that two year olds and 90 year olds with dementia.

[JudyM]

68. This is on Hamas. What did they expect would happen, kidnapping so many hostages and hiding behind

human shields back in Gaza?

[MadameButterfly]

87. THey thought it would provoke Netanyahue to strike aggressively

to the point of war crimes, and prevent peace between Israel and the rest of the Middle East.

Probably the leaders of Hamas are relatively safe somewhere. Or they are desparate enough to prefer to die than live under Israeli rule forever.

They are upset about talks between Egypt and Israel. They know they can't win, they just want to do damage. They want Israel to hurt like they do. They want to keep Israel isolated.

I'm not justifying their actions, but you ask what did they think would happen? Exactly what is happening.

[jimfields33]

53. Simple. Give back the hostages and the kids get back all.

Hamas do it for the kids your supposed to lead.

[beaglelover]

56. Yep. Not too hard to understand.

[obamanut2012]

64. It is a literal war crime

[MadameButterfly]

75. are you talking about Ukraine

which this post is about, or Gaza?

[beaglelover]

77. Um, maybe read the tweet at the top of the OP.

[MadameButterfly]

76. are you talking about Ukraine

which this post is about, or Gaza?

[FBaggins]

2. Yes - abducting civilians and threatening to kill them if attacked - is a war crime

Ceasing to deliver goods and services to a country you are now at war with - is not.

[TomDaisy]

7. So the warden is refusing to feed any of the prisoners because one prisoner is guilty

[FBaggins]

11. There's no warden or prison

Gaza is controlled by its own government. Water/power/food is their responsibility. They had a deal with a neighboring country to provide some… but then went to war with them. That ends any obligation to fulfill the deal

Egypt close the border on their side as well… which means that no fuel can arrive for the only power plant in Gaza. Is that too a war crime?

[TomDaisy]

16. Even Israel says Gaza is an open-air prison

And yes, collective punishment is a war crime. The Red Cross says so not just me.

[FBaggins]

24. Where has Israel said that?

Palestinians call it that… but that’s nonsensical rhetoric/hyperbole.

[AntivaxHunters]

35. You're going again Human Rights Watch here

You do realize that, right?.
Probably not the best position to take being on the opposite side of HRW.

https://www.hrw.org/news/2022/06/14/gaza-israels-open-air-prison-15]

[TomDaisy]

48. They say that and so does Human Rights Watch

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

Israel’s sweeping restrictions on leaving Gaza deprive its more than two million residents of opportunities to better their lives, Human Rights Watch said today on the fifteenth anniversary of the 2007 closure. The closure has devastated the economy in Gaza, contributed to fragmentation of the Palestinian people, and forms part of Israeli authorities’ crimes against humanity of apartheid and persecution against millions of Palestinians.

Israel’s closure policy blocks most Gaza residents from going to the West Bank, preventing professionals, artists, athletes, students, and others from pursuing opportunities within Palestine and from traveling abroad via Israel, restricting their rights to work and an education. Restrictive Egyptian policies at its Rafah crossing with Gaza, including unnecessary delays and mistreatment of travelers, have exacerbated the closure’s harm to human rights.

“Israel, with Egypt’s help, has turned Gaza into an open-air prison,” said Omar Shakir, Israel and Palestine director at Human Rights Watch. “As many people around the world are once again traveling two years after the start of the Covid-19 pandemic, Gaza’s more than two million Palestinians remain under what amounts to a 15-year-old lockdown.”

https://www.hrw.org/news/2022/06/14/gaza-israels-open-air-prison-15

[BlueCheeseAgain]

14. That one prisoner in this ridiculous analogy...

... is the leader of all the other prisoners.

[TomDaisy]

17. in what way

[BlueCheeseAgain]

25. Hamas is the government of Gaza.

They're not just some criminal organization that has plopped itself inside another country.

Having said all that, it might be that the humane thing to do is for Israel to keep the lights on and water running even as it fights Hamas. But I don't think they're obligated to do it.

[inthewind21]

42. Hamas has been backed

by Netanyahu

https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/

[BlueCheeseAgain]

46. Well, that was dumb of him.

But they have their own agency too.

[TomDaisy]

57. This explains why Netanyahu backed Hamas - an admitted strategy to kneecap Palestinians

by smearing them all with Hamas extremism. Looks like it worked.

Link to tweet

[TomDaisy]

52. the unelected government.

[AntivaxHunters]

20. Sorry but killing babies in incubators is wrong

[TomDaisy]

22. so she should pay the price?

Link to tweet

[FBaggins]

27. No - she shouldn't

But it is Hamas and Hamas alone that is forcing her to pay that price.

[TomDaisy]

29. well, that will definitely solve the problem. all fixed!

[FBaggins]

37. We don't have an option of solving her problem

We certainly can’t morally say to another country “they can walk up and decapitate your children - but you can’t shoot back because they choose to hide behind this young girl”

Using children as human shields is actually a war crime - orders of magnitude worse than refusing to send aid to a group you’re at war with. If she dies, her death is on the coward hiding behind her.

[inthewind21]

49. Oh I see

Sorry about that sweetheart, you're not my kid!

[obamanut2012]

65. It isn't a country

[FBaggins]

73. Nor should it ever be - now made clear

But they think they are and others have accepted them as such.

But that’s irrelevant spin. They are a distinct entity with their own government.

[BlueCheeseAgain]

3. Why is Israel required to keep supplying the entity that attacked it?

Is Ukraine required to keep sending grain to Russia? Are the Western sanctions on Russia a war crime?

[TomDaisy]

9. why should a prison warden be required to keep providing food to people in the cages

[BlueCheeseAgain]

12. Not a great analogy.

Hamas, the government of Gaza, started this. They can hardly be surprised when the country they attacked stops supplying their people.

[AntivaxHunters]

51. No they didn't start this. This shit has been going on decades

Both sides are fully responsible.



https://reliefweb.int/report/occupied-palestinian-territory/2023-marks-deadliest-year-record-children-occupied-west-bank#:~:text=%5B1%5D%20According%20to%20the%20UN's,(as%20of%2031%20August).]

[obamanut2012]

67. Neither is the Ukraine/Russia one

[moonshinegnomie]

13. why should a country feed an enemy country

hamas IS the goverment of gaza. and such anything that happens to their people is on THEIR heads

[TomDaisy]

19. and where does the food come from then - magic?

[inthewind21]

59. You speak as if Gaza

is it's own country. Answer me this, how long has Hamas been operating as the government of Gaza? How did they come to be the government in Gaza? Where do they receive their financing? Did Israel just learn Hamas is a terrorist group? If not, why has Israel allowed a terrorist group to operate in Gaza for more than 15 years? No ones hands are clean here. Some more than others, but still dirty just the same.

[FBaggins]

80. So it's Israel's fault that Hamas exists?

I suspect they plan to take care of that right away

[meadowlander]

72. We all have obligations to colonised, refugee states.

Gaza would not exist in the way that it does if millions of Palestinians had not been displaced by the formation of Israel and decades of war.

I'm not here to comment on the rightness or wrongness of that, but pretending that these are two independent sovereign countries on an equal footing that just suddenly in 2023 got into an argument is disingenuous.

Palestinians spent decades in refugee camps with their wealth completely stripped away from them and no opportunities to recover economically. They were disadvantaged by planning and zoning laws created by the colonising state that only recently left which saw what they did build torn down. So to say now "well it's their fault they didn't invest billions in water and power infrastructure for a strip of land in the middle of the desert off a tax base of refugees with 60% unemployment" is absurd.

The entire Gaza Strip is 141 square miles - a little smaller than Queens in New York with essentially no natural resources. Where are you supposed to fit 2.5 million people and also water reservoirs and solar or wind power farms, etc? Of course they aren't self-sufficient. The country is only 10 years old and has already been cut off and sanctioned that entire time.

That's not the same as economic sanctions on the largest country in the world that has alternative options for supplying its people. The inevitable consequences of cutting off power and water to Gaza is that vulnerable people will die by the tens if not hundreds of thousands. Russian sanctions are a punch in the nose, the sanctions on Gaza are not.

[BlueCheeseAgain]

85. Well, if we all have an obligation, then I guess the entire world is guilty.

[brush]

8. That won't last long. What, he's gonna have people/kids dying of thirst...

and no other supplies? It's a knee-jerk reaction to try to get the hostages back but ya can't have two million people in Gaza dying of thirst.

[GenXer47]

10. yes it certainly is

According to Human Rights Watch, the Israeli occupation of the West Bank and Gaza is regarded as an “ongoing armed conflict” under international humanitarian law, governed by Common Article 3 of the 1949 Geneva Convention, supplemented by the Additional Protocols of 1977.

These laws of war forbid collective punishment of a population. At their most basic level, they say warring parties must:

Distinguish between combatants and civilians
Preserve civilian infrastructure, such as homes, schools and hospitals
Give prior warning of attacks if civilians are present in targeted locations
Refrain from harming medical staff and depriving medical facilities of electricity and water
Allow the passage of impartial humanitarian aid
Leave civilians and captured combatants unharmed. Murder, cruel treatment, torture and the taking of hostages are forbidden

Power imbalances between parties are not taken into account, meaning that Hamas and the Israeli government would be judged solely on the basis of their actions.

https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2023/10/12/is-israeli-bombing-of-gaza-a-violation-of-international-laws

[BlueCheeseAgain]

15. Does it say you have to provide the aid yourself?

If we stopped trading with Japan after Pearl Harbor, is that a war crime?

[Zeitghost]

18. Israel

Is not required to supply and fund the terrorist that want to kill them anymore than Ukraine is required to supply Russia with supplies.

The OP continues to show their radical ideology.

[AntivaxHunters]

23. My "radical ideology" is based in humanity

What is your excuse?

If you'd like a debate then let's go!

[Zeitghost]

31. If you can't understand

Why a country is not required to supply it's enemies with supplies. Nothing I say will matter.

Hamas has spent it's international aid on weapons to attack Israel instead of taking care of it's people. Israel is under no obligation to continue to help them.

[AntivaxHunters]

40. If you don't understand war crimes I urge you to read up

You're advocating for war crimes & trying to rationalize something which is abhorrent.

Think about what you're saying here please.

[AkFemDem]

58. You calling it a war crime doesn't make it one

It defies logic to expect a nation to supply a hostile invading force with energy and substance. Hey, why not get on them about not giving them more weaponry while you’re at it- that’s the neighborly thing to do. Maybe the Israeli women who were not killed or kidnapped should also bake some casseroles to pass along. /sarcasm

[AntivaxHunters]

69. It is a war crime - read last paragraph

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

[JudyM]

70. ⬆️⬆️⬆️ Hamas is all in on antisemitism, rabidly, without regard to who gets hurt.

[BannonsLiver]

26. +1. A CT theory regarding Israel wanting Gaza's natural gas was posted yesterday.

🤦‍♂️

[NutmegYankee]

28. Nope. You do not give your enemies the means to continue warfare.

Surrender and the fuel and water will flow.

[BannonsLiver]

36. These folks would have demanded we send ammo, food and meds to the Japanese and Germans in WW2.

[NutmegYankee]

38. Yes, and would try to shame US while they did so.

[BannonsLiver]

47. No doubt about it.

“Why did FDR make Japan bomb Pearl Harbor!”

[beaglelover]

39. LOL! So true!

[AntivaxHunters]

43. Need I remind you this country put Japanese Americans in camps?

Ask George Takai

[BannonsLiver]

45. I know all about it, thanks.

[AntivaxHunters]

54. Good 👍🏼

[treestar]

81. they don't have an army

that's why they use terrorism.

If they had an army, what they did would presumably be OK, as it would not be terrorism.

Palestine is too weak to have an army.

The Japanese and Germans attacked us as armies. We could be at war with them.

Israel I think does not recognize this as war, but as revenge for terrorism.

[Goddessartist]

61. Yes it is.

And, from a few days ago,

https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20231009-gaza-israeli-air-strikes-hit-2nd-ambulance-in-less-than-48-hours/

[maxsolomon]

62. throw it on the war crime pile

next to 1000s of other examples.

war is a war crime.

[AntivaxHunters]

71. Yes 👍🏼

[Kaleva]

66. I believe Russia attacked UKR and Hamas attacked Israel

[MadameButterfly]

88. Russia supplies Iran, Iran supplies Hamas

Now US right-wingers are suggesting we abandon Ukraine so support Israel.

You think Putin has nothing to do with this?

[Sympthsical]

78. I liked it better when we were all submersible experts

[BannonsLiver]

83. Line of the day winner

[EX500rider]

90. hahahaha

[Xavier Breath]

91. Heady times indeed.

If only we had the PlayStation controller that could steer us out of this mess.