How about some GOOD news?

[AntivaxHunters]

I had a little faith in humanity restored 😀

[CaliforniaPeggy]

1. How clever and thoughtful of the Starbucks staff to offer this help!

Mighty quick thinking on their part.

[Karadeniz]

2. Yay!!!!

[Lonestarblue]

3. Fantastic! There is human kindness left in this world. We need to encourage it when possible.

[Stargazer99]

61. Notice concern and compassion comes from the average citizen worker

[lostnfound]

4. Seems a little weird, actually

. Why would they have been suspicious? Good gosh, it’s NORMAL in other countries for people to walk up and talk to each other, regardless of age. Like the public squares in Italy.
Are we all supposed to be scared of each other? It’s not like it was a dark alley.

[masmdu]

5. No joke..oh, my gosh! Somebody approaching someone and Talking to them!

American, land of feardumb.

[Think. Again.]

6. No...

...we have to face the reality that we are not in a safe place right now.

Looking out for each other is a neccesary thing at this moment in time, while we also work our asses off to do everything we can to make our home safe(r) again.

[masmdu]

10. What's not safe about someone talking to someone?

Why assume it's not safe/ normal? Stranger danger generation all grown up. LOOK OUT! Act like the least likely and worst thing you can imagine is probably going to happen to you and everyone else. FEAR each other.

[Think. Again.]

15. Unfortunately...

...the fear is appropriate as more and more people are actually out to hurt others.

[Elessar Zappa]

42. Not true.

Every metric of crime is significantly lower than it was in the past. That includes murder, assault, kidnapping, rape, vandalism, pretty much everything. Even with higher rates of reporting now, child abuse is lower too. The murder rate is up a bit since the pandemic but nowhere near the levels of thirty years ago. The reason why people perceive that crime is high now is a combo of wearing rose-colored glasses regarding the past and 24 hour news and social media that tells us about every heinous case in real time. In the past, only the very worst cases would be publicized. That said, I don’t blame the woman for being nervous. Men can be creeps.

[Think. Again.]

43. I agree with you...

...about the media sensationalizing crime for their profit.

But I'm curious... We began this discussion on the increase of fear over generational timeframes. Do the 'crime metrics' you're referring to include that timeframe? Or are they only looking at crime stats within prior years or decades?

[Rebl2]

18. Maybe they

heard what the man was saying to her and it concerned them?

[ExWhoDoesntCare]

56. You weren't there

How do you know that interaction was safe/normal? How do you know the guy wasn't being creepy or super-aggressive and obnoxious? How do you know the woman wasn't visibly uncomfortable with the attention and the guy not accepting clear signs or outright requests to leave her alone?

If you weren't there to see it for yourself, you have no bloody clue if the interaction were safe or normal.

Clearly, the woman was grateful for their concern/offers to intervene, or she wouldn't be sharing the Starbucks response with others. So maybe leave the matter to the people who, unlike you, were there to see what was going on.

[Rabrrrrrr]

69. How do you know the guy WAS?

If you weren't there to see it for yourself, you have no bloody clue if the interaction was unsafe or abnormal.

The question being asked is legitimate - Should we be living in fear all the time? Should we immediately assume something terrible whenever a man talks to a woman?

And the woman never lifted the lid, so your hypothetical doesn't work so well.

[Ferrets are Cool]

72. Thank you for saying what I was going to say.

[forgotmylogin]

71. Nothing, in ideal circumstances.

However you know "vibes". Apparently the Starbucks employees sensed something was wrong and reached out to a woman by herself to let her know she was not alone if she needed help.

[Xavier Breath]

9. Yeah, and it seems like they left out some details of the encounter

like the man's body language (was he invading her personal space?) as well as the woman's (was she trying to move away or recoiling?) and what was said between them (did he ask for her number or say anything creepy?). Or, maybe he's a regular there and known for making young women feel uncomfortable? Too much is left to our imagination, and if they don't tell us those things we will fill in the blanks for ourselves.

[ShazzieB]

14. An older man talking to a very young woman can give a creepy vibe in a variety of ways.

I agree more details would have been helpful, but I'd bet the Starbucks staff had a good reason for their actions, and I applaud them.

If they were wrong about him being creepy, no harm done.
If he WAS being creepy, they did the right thing.

I'd rather they were wrong about him being creepy and did what they did than the reverse.

[Xavier Breath]

21. True, but I have to agree with the other posters saying it may have been an overreaction.

But again, we just don't know. They're Starbucks employees, not PHDs conducting field research on human interaction. They might have gotten it wrong, or maybe they did get it right. I'd just prefer more info before I exalt their actions. YMMV.

[ExWhoDoesntCare]

57. It's a social media post by someone who wasn't there

That person wouldn't know the details, and, if he did know, may have been reluctant to share them for a variety of reasons. Like how many women who have faced unwanted attention from a man that frightened them are often shaken about it for a while and don't want reminders of the details. Or it may be under investigation and the police have requested that they not discuss details with others until they can identify the guy.

Could be a lot going on here that we don't know about.

[treestar]

64. Yes, they need more there , as it gives ammunition

to the incels with just the idea he started to talk to her. Maybe he persisted when she tried to shut it down?

[Mister Ed]

12. They empowered *her* to decide whether she was safe and whether the interaction was normal.

They didn't decide for her. We internet posters, far removed from the scene, shouldn't decide for her either.

[Think. Again.]

16. Well said, and an excellent point.

[FailureToCommunicate]

17. Agreed.

[masmdu]

22. Wasn't she already empowered to do that?

They didn't empower her. If there was a problem all she'd have to do was to use her power to make others aware. Why assume the worst?

[Mister Ed]

26. No one assumed anything. They merely asked her. Unobtrusively.

Why assume the best?

[masmdu]

29. Sure they did. The assumption was that one person approaching another and talking to them is

Last edited Sun Oct 15, 2023, 10:44 PM - Edit history (1)

In some way a worrisome situation that requires others to intervene.
"Why assume the best?"
Because we are more likely to approach others with kindness when we assume that they are acting with good intentions. This can create a positive feedback loop, as the other person is more likely to respond positively to our approach and treat us with kindness in return. Thereby creating a more positive society or at the very least within our own experience of society.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

37. +1. Excellent analysis. . . nt

[Mister Ed]

39. All this from the comfort of our place at the keyboard and the lofty heights of our ivory towers.

Lacking any real feel for the nuances of the faraway situation described in the OP, I guess we're free to judge the people involved in any way we'd like.

For my part, I'm very, very skeptical of the notion that women can enhance their safety by assuming that strangers who approach them are "acting with good intentions". Skeptical that women who instead feel apprehension are missing an opportunity to "create a more positive society". I think their "own experience of society" throughout their lives gives them great reason to be wary, and so I can't fault them for their wariness.

When an encounter with a stranger does lead to harassment, stalking, or far worse for a woman, she is not the one to blame. It is not her fault for failing to "create a positive feedback loop". Indeed, if she tried a warmer, friendlier response, she'd likely find herself faulted for having "led him on". Somehow it's always the woman's responsibility.

I'm frankly astonished that we're even having this discussion.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

36. Good, but "empowered" is not the right word. I'd say, they let her call the play without interfering

We should talk and act as if all women are empowered to decide their own safety, as they have a right to do that.

Empowering was not something the staff gave her. What they gave her was a way to signal, if she felt the need to. They let her know they were there to back her move either way. This of course is clear to you because you wrote "They didn't decide for her".

[Mister Ed]

38. Aye. I knew that wasn't exactly the word I wanted.

Thank you for getting the gist of my post anyway.

[we can do it]

46. Exactly

[we can do it]

47. Exactly

[LisaM]

30. I don't believe stories like this anyway.

They are completely fabricated, if you ask me.

[Native]

34. I've seen this story more than a few times already...

Different people same story.

[mopinko]

44. same pic, tho.

[ExWhoDoesntCare]

53. Your anecdote

Isn't data.

[progressoid]

31. Not sure Italy is a good example -A 65 yr old man can grope a teen as long as it's under 10 seconds.

https://www.firstpost.com/explainers/italy-10-second-groping-rule-protest-tiktok-instagram-12863782.html

In a controversial decision, a court ruled that unwanted touching that lasts fewer than 10 seconds is not a crime. The case involved a teenager and a school authority.

A 66-year-old caretaker of a high school in Rome, who was accused of groping a student, was let off the hook because the harassment was not prolonged.

...

The incident dates back to April 2022. The 17-year-old student was walking up the stairs to a class with a friend when the caretaker pulled her pants down, grabbed her underwear and fondled her buttocks.

The teenager reported the caretaker, identified as Antonio Avola, to the police. He was charged with sexual assault and sent to trial. Prosecutors had called for a three-and-a-half-years prison sentence for the accused.

...

While Avola admitted that he had touched the student without consent, he reiterated it was a joke.

A court in Rome has taken his word and cleared him of the charges. It ruled that the groping had “only lasted between five and 10 seconds” and that the man’s hand had not “lingered” down her underwear for a brief while. It did not “constitute a crime”.

[Delphinus]

51. Oh,

that was a bullshit ruling.

[RAB910]

50. This was my take

what the hell?!?! talking to someone means you must be an ax murder.

[ExWhoDoesntCare]

52. If you weren't there

You can't know if it's weird or rude or not.

You weren't there to see if he were being pushy and obnoxious.

You weren't there to see if she seemed visibly uncomfortable with him, trying to get away, and he wouldn't back off.

Why don't you let the people who were there make the call?

And if you think that rapists and other creeps don't initiate contact with their targets in public spaces, you are naive in extreme.

[ExWhoDoesntCare]

55. As but one example of how gob-smacking naive it is

To make the public places remark, consider this:

Ted Bundy lured two of his victims from a public event attended by as many as 40,000 people.

https://www.kiro7.com/living/dating/never-before-seen-film-shows-ted-bundys-vw-where-he-killed-two-women-in-1974/696707928/

[treestar]

65. whoever tells the story knows we were not there

so they need to make the story credible.

[Maraya1969]

59. Anytime you see a child being forcefully taken to a car you should ask them if that is their parent.

It is simple and it could save lives. Maybe you think it is dumb but it's not dumb to parents whose child would have been abducted.

[Stargazer99]

62. It never hurts to be careful with people we dont know especially for females

[treestar]

63. Yeah, they need more description there

walking up to her and talking to her makes it sound overdone.

[republianmushroom]

7. I like it

[Demovictory9]

8. Wow

[The Blue Flower]

11. Was this in Seattle?

Strangers don't talk to you in Seattle. If you try to start a conversation, they look at you like there's something wrong with you.

[Xavier Breath]

13. For those with social anxiety like myself

that might be more feature than bug. But, I get that's probably not how most folks would look at it.

[Lochloosa]

19. Don't come to the south. I will start a conversation with just about anyone.

Drives my wife crazy. It's perfectly normal here.

[masmdu]

23. True! "Accidentally" spent a couple of hours yesterday chatting with

Strangers and we all enjoyed ourselves. One of the very nice things about the South.

[tavernier]

28. Same in the Keys

We chat over stuff in the grocery line with total strangers. “Steak and lobster in your cart? Yum, maybe I’ll come to your house for dinner!”
“Come on over, dinner’s at 5, bring the wine.”

[Lochloosa]

32. And you showed up right?

[CaptainTruth]

33. Me too. I make it a point of having pleasant conversations with strangers.

Had my eyes examined several weeks ago & while making small talk the technician mentioned her fiance, plans to get married next year, & they wanted to honeymoon in a country I've been to many times before. She asked about things to see & do there, travel tips, etc & before I knew it we were sketching out possible honeymoon plans.

I was her last patient of the day & neither one of us cared that the appointment ran well past the scheduled time, we weren't holding anyone up, & I felt like I made a new friend.

[ExWhoDoesntCare]

58. Do you approach people in a way that makes them

Feel threatened or uncomfortable?

Do you persist in conversing with them when they've made it clear they don't want to interact with you?

Yet again, people need this reminder:

YOU WERE NOT THERE. You don't know that the guy was merely being friendly--or being a jerk.

So when YOU WERE NOT THERE, why don't you leave the matter to the people who were, and give THEM the benefit of the doubt for finding the man's behavior not up to snuff.

Because YOU WERE NOT THERE to know that he wasn't being a creep--or that the employees hadn't witnessed him being pushy and obnoxious to women before.

[Lochloosa]

66. Well Bless Your Heart. I was not even responding to the original Post nor about the story.

Might want to go back and understand what I was talking about before jumping down my throat.

And to answer your question, it really none of your damn business how I approach someone.

I may talk slow, but I'm not stupid.

[JoseBalow]

20. I read that as the drink was extra-hot, in case she needed to dump it his lap

[NBachers]

24. I stopped into the Highway 1 Brewery along the Coast Highway with my college-age niece. We were on

our way down to Santa Cruz. I saw the bar staff move in and start conversing with her. I knew they were checking to see if everything was OK with a young blonde girl and her "uncle." I discreetly stepped into the men's room while they had their little conversation together. I was not offended; I was glad to see them looking out for her.

I'll trust the Starbucks staff to make the right call.

[usonian]

25. Know the hand signal for distress.

[fierywoman]

27. Having worked in the food service industry (light years ago) you get used to "reading"

people's body language/intention (it just makes your own life -- and eventual tips -- so much easier. )

I applaud the Starbucks people.

FWIW I lived in Italy for eight years and it was not particularly common for strangers to just start to talk to each other in a square ...

[Wonder Why]

35. Something like this happened to me and I'm a guy. A woman came in and reached for

my crotch. I quickly told her "Lauren, I'm a Democrat." That stopped her.

Sorry but it was good news. Lord knows what disease she might have had.

[wnylib]

40. The Starbucks staff did the right thing.

Last edited Mon Oct 16, 2023, 02:55 AM - Edit history (1)

When I was 16, I had help from staff and a customer at a bus terminal diner.

I had spent the summer in SC visiting my Navy brother and his wife to help my SIL with their 2 babies, ages 14 months and 2 months. I took a Greyhound bus back home to PA because there was an airline strike at the time.

I missed my changeover bus at midnight in Richmond, VA because I was in the ladies room when they announced the boarding. Had to wait in the bus terminal until 4 am for the next bus.

A man about late 30s or early 40s asked why I was there alone at night. I told him what had happened. He offered to drive me as far as DC. Besides the fact that I would not go with a stranger, that would not have helped me get home or to the next bus headed home. I said that I'd wait for my bus.

I went to a magazine rack to buy something to read while waiting. He followed me, showed me his driver's license to "prove" who he was and therefore, it was safe for me to go with him. I told him that proof of identity was not proof of character and went to the terminal's diner to be near other people. He followed me there and continued trying to persuade me.

The waitress at the counter "chatted" with us, while making eye contact with me.

Waitress to me: Hi, honey. Where are you and your father going?

ME: He's not my father. I don't know him.

My stalker: She needs help. I'm looking after her. (Then, to me, he said: Order what you want. I 'll pay.)

ME: I'll pay for my own food. I don't need your help.

Waitress to stalker: She wants to be left alone.

Stalker: None of your business.

Customer in Marine uniform who overheard: If she wants to be left alone, I suggest that you do that.

The Marine then sat on the other side of me at the counter. The stalker left. The Marine was on leave and headed home to Alabama. He stayed in the diner with me until my bus came.

[NBachers]

41. Great story! I can't think of a better guardian to keep you safe.

Do they still have overnight diners with actual waitresses in bus terminals?

[wnylib]

48. That one did in 1966 when this experience happened.

It consisted of a long counter with stools behind glass doors and a partial glass wall. Very modern looking for the time.

I don't know about other bus depots, but In Buffalo today there is a central depot for local and long distance buses. Inside the depot there is a Tim Horton's franchise. It is square shaped and surrounded by tables and chairs.

[wnylib]

49. One thing that I didn't mention.

That marine was only a few years older I was, and was nice looking. We exchanged addresses and wrote to each other for a while after I got home.

But, the correspondence fizzled out. I was starting my senior year in high school, dating a local boy, with a lot of things going on.

[mopinko]

45. it was fla.

[CousinIT]

54. EXCELLENT n/t

[BobTheSubgenius]

60. What a great anecdote!!!

I can't say it makes me like Starbucks, but it makes me dislike the chain less. Good on those baristas, and whatever other strange job names they have!

[world wide wally]

67. It was a judgement call by the staff and they did the right thing.

I'm sure it was comforting to the girl that someone had her back just in case.

[MorbidButterflyTat]

68. I wish

someone had done something like that for me when I was trapped with my abusive ex-husband.

Who cares if it was an "overreaction"? and why would it be considered an overreaction? ...because she didn't remove the lid? There's no end to the knee jerk criticism over every damn thing. Maybe the barista should have gone home and consulted her significant other, or her neighbor, or twitter or facebook, or her tarot cards, before "overreacting."



I got goosebumps too.

[redqueen]

70. This is beautiful ❤️

[Ferrets are Cool]

73. So fucking what if it was an over-reaction???????????

Better to be safe than to have regrets later. I cannot believe some people.

[soldierant]

74. Crime statistic in general are not necessarily relevanyt to any given situation

but there is one statstic which has not changed much in centuries:

Men's biggest fear about women is that she will laugh at him.

Women's biggest fear about men is that he will kill her.