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bigtree

(94,265 posts)
Wed Oct 18, 2023, 11:57 AM Oct 2023

Restricting Israel/Palestine news to a separate forum needs to happen once more

...there's far too much internet speculation and disinfo flying around, and this general forum should be mostly be concerned with or restricted to mainly administration or legislative actions and responses to the conflict.

We're making a muddle with all of the loosely sourced reports and claims, and that's just going to create and deepen divisions here over things which are sometimes deliberately designed to do just that.

Counting the days until the return of most of this to that forum happens.

Maybe those who disagree can talk about why the discussion was restricted to those pages in the first place.

21 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Restricting Israel/Palestine news to a separate forum needs to happen once more (Original Post) bigtree Oct 2023 OP
It's big news and belongs in GD for now Renew Deal Oct 2023 #1
This TheProle Oct 2023 #3
why was discussion restricted in the first place? bigtree Oct 2023 #7
Never said it was TheProle Oct 2023 #10
right bigtree Oct 2023 #12
The worst fights on DU seem to always be about this topic. Renew Deal Oct 2023 #15
I understand your position and respect it TheProle Oct 2023 #17
good example of the unnecessary heat and acrimony bigtree Oct 2023 #5
Is it an incorrect charectorization? Renew Deal Oct 2023 #8
you can't think of any other reasons to restrict the discussion? bigtree Oct 2023 #11
I can think of many reasons Renew Deal Oct 2023 #14
I'm fine bigtree Oct 2023 #16
Respectfully disagree. H2O Man Oct 2023 #2
Nah LiberaBlueDem Oct 2023 #4
I'm recalling other times when the discussion was allowed to recede bigtree Oct 2023 #6
I agree. Emrys Oct 2023 #9
What we need is respect for one another. Kid Berwyn Oct 2023 #13
Well, it seems that the I&P group has very (appropriately IMO) restrictive rules for posting there hlthe2b Oct 2023 #18
I agree nt redqueen Oct 2023 #19
+10000 Pachamama Oct 2023 #20
I strongly disagree. Liberty Belle Oct 2023 #21

Renew Deal

(85,151 posts)
1. It's big news and belongs in GD for now
Wed Oct 18, 2023, 11:59 AM
Oct 2023

No matter how much some would like to push it under the carpet.

bigtree

(94,265 posts)
7. why was discussion restricted in the first place?
Wed Oct 18, 2023, 12:06 PM
Oct 2023

...don't recall 'hiding one's head under the sand' as the primary consideration.

TheProle

(3,982 posts)
10. Never said it was
Wed Oct 18, 2023, 12:08 PM
Oct 2023

My understanding is that, in the absence of a "hot phase" which has much larger ramifications for the rest of the world, it spared GD from entrenched ideological sparring.

In this case, it's front and center in world events and should be treated as such.

bigtree

(94,265 posts)
12. right
Wed Oct 18, 2023, 12:12 PM
Oct 2023

...I'm counting the days until the 'hot phase' is over, because this is becoming a dangerous muddle of misinformation mixed with acrimony.

This forum isn't just about the Middle East, but it's become dominated by it, and with not just a few disturbing effects.

Renew Deal

(85,151 posts)
15. The worst fights on DU seem to always be about this topic.
Wed Oct 18, 2023, 12:15 PM
Oct 2023

Every time it flares up, things get ugly.

TheProle

(3,982 posts)
17. I understand your position and respect it
Wed Oct 18, 2023, 12:16 PM
Oct 2023

I just come down on the side of open discussion in the GD forum.

bigtree

(94,265 posts)
5. good example of the unnecessary heat and acrimony
Wed Oct 18, 2023, 12:01 PM
Oct 2023

...of course, nothing was said in this post about 'pushing it under the carpet.'

Lower the temperature. None of us here is in actual conflict with anyone else here.

bigtree

(94,265 posts)
11. you can't think of any other reasons to restrict the discussion?
Wed Oct 18, 2023, 12:09 PM
Oct 2023

...I can't imagine that was the primary motivation for moving the posts to that forum in the first place.

You chose to make it deragatory. Your choice.

Renew Deal

(85,151 posts)
14. I can think of many reasons
Wed Oct 18, 2023, 12:13 PM
Oct 2023

But not many that you will like. I've made almost no posts on the I/P topic but it is newsworthy at the moment and GD is the appropriate outlet. There are people that would like to pretend that the outside world doesn't exist and just focus on the speaker battle. Unfortunately, the world doesn't have that luxury right now.

What about hiding the words Israel and Gaza? That should clear it up for you.

https://democraticunderground.com/?com=myaccount&sub=trash

bigtree

(94,265 posts)
16. I'm fine
Wed Oct 18, 2023, 12:16 PM
Oct 2023

...it's the forum I'm concerned with.

But, thanks for your considerate advice.

LiberaBlueDem

(1,167 posts)
4. Nah
Wed Oct 18, 2023, 12:01 PM
Oct 2023

It's democracy and free speech that we should openly discuss what is important.

Our problem is war lust and only by exposing it can we beat it

bigtree

(94,265 posts)
6. I'm recalling other times when the discussion was allowed to recede
Wed Oct 18, 2023, 12:04 PM
Oct 2023

...to mainly those pages.

I think 'war lust' comes in many pernicious forms, most of them not overt.

Emrys

(9,100 posts)
9. I agree.
Wed Oct 18, 2023, 12:07 PM
Oct 2023

The daily news is inevitably garbled, and at the moment DU is one of the worst places I know to find reliable, timely information on the current conflict.

Battle lines have long been drawn, and exchanges of views between those still choosing to engage are now formulaic, ritualized, entrenched, generally hostile and ultimately unenlightening.

It's a very important conflict, but there are other things happening in the world which are nearly as pressing, worse luck.

Kid Berwyn

(24,395 posts)
13. What we need is respect for one another.
Wed Oct 18, 2023, 12:13 PM
Oct 2023

In recent days, we've seen longtime DUers pummeled simply for posting an article or expressing an observation.

I don't care if it's from Ha'aretz or Al Jazeera -- explain why you don't agree and post another article. That's how we learn new stuff so we can develop better understanding.

Please, don't attack the DUer because he or she or they do not share a POV. That's not just censorship, it's propaganda.



hlthe2b

(113,972 posts)
18. Well, it seems that the I&P group has very (appropriately IMO) restrictive rules for posting there
Wed Oct 18, 2023, 12:17 PM
Oct 2023

and having just reviewed them, I think a LOT of current GD posts would not fly there. Plus they are down to one moderator who does Yeoman's work--especially now. So, I'm not sure how that is going to work.

But, I can appreciate the desire to have a bit more control (oversight?) over sources of information and some of the other issues that have made discussion a bit difficult, to put it mildly.

Liberty Belle

(9,707 posts)
21. I strongly disagree.
Wed Oct 18, 2023, 12:28 PM
Oct 2023

This is a war that people around the world are concerned about, on all sides of the conflict, which potentially could escalate beyond Israel and Palestine.

That said, I hope the moderators will work hard to remove posts that are found to be hate speech(any posts advocating to kill all Jews or all Muslims, raze all of Palestine or wipe Israel off the map should be blocked), as should false, or unsubstantiated propaganda from either side.

Hospital bombing in Gaza is a case in point. Reputable media outlets like the BBC and Reuters are reporting that we cannot be sure who fired the missile(s) at this point.

Hamas claims it was Israel and Al Jazeera initially ran this unchallenged, fueling rage in the Arab world. Israel has struck other civilian targets during its bombardment of Gaza after the Hamas attacks in Israel.

However Israel claims that a "barrage" of missiles were fired from Islamic Jihad and damaged the hospital site; that;'s a militant group inside Gaza that often allies with Hamas. An Israeli TV station has released video from the station's own camera which appears to confirm Israel's version. Israel claims to have intercepted phone calls of Hamas leaders saying Islamic Jihad fired missiles that misfired, but has not publicly released that call. They have however released video of their own which they claim confirms this.

President Biden said today that he believes Israel's version, and that this is based on intelligence he received from the US Defense Dept.

The BBC showed videos to several weapons experts; some said the damaged appeared more likely to be from rocket fuel exploding,ie no crater that one would expect from Israeli's larger missiles. But others would no venture an opinion. A BBC reporter oo scene confirms no larger crater and says itwas the parking lot,not the hospital itself, that was struck though fire caused damage. Sadly 1,000 Palestinian refugees were in the parking lot of the hospital, which is run by Episcopal Christians from England, also raising a third possibility that Jihadists could have targeted Christians.

However the hospital folks say their cancer ward was previously struck by a missile which they presumed to be Israeli.So who knows.

Now for the misinformation--posts on social media claiming the entire hospital was destroyed, or on the opposite extreme, that there were very few injuries. BBC confirms hundreds. There are photos of Gaza bombings found to date back to prior years.

I would hope DU could be a place for frank discussion, shared opinions, and debunking misinformation anytime there is a wartime situation. And of note, the US has sent aircraft carriers and am amphibious force to the region, putting our troops potentially in harm's way, so this is clearly an issue that all of us should stay informed on.

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