Does your kid know cursive? It's coming back as a requirement to CA schools

[brooklynite]

KABC Los Angeles

SAN FRANCISCO -- Traditional handwriting is making a comeback in California schools.

On Friday Governor Newsom signed a bill that will require cursive instruction in first through sixth grade.

Abigail Soriano-Lentz is the English Language Arts Curriculum Coordinator for the East Side Union High School District.

Soriano-Letz said if you were to ask educators, there's a wide range of points of view on cursive.

Huge waste of time. None of my college students tried to turn in a paper written in cursive.

[hardluck]

1. It's good for development of fine motor skills

Plus, it's a nice skill to have.

As for tests, I'm old so I wrote my bar exam test in cursive.

[hlthe2b]

4. Yes. And while computers are used everywhere, so too (in many settings) are quick hand-written notes

I find it beyond sad to think that some younger potential employees will be unable to fulfill even basic tasks that require one to read a cursive letter or note occasionally. The latter is significant in medicine where medical notes and records from all types of clinics (even those overseas)may have to be quickly reviewed before the laborious task of scanning/translating into the computerized medical record can occur--not to mention those times when the entire computer system goes down.

And how damned sad to think some of these individuals will never be able to read the letters of their parents/grandparents or that on display in museums.

Good on California. The removal of cursive writing is one of the most asinine changes to the curriculum in decades. Maybe a few decades from now we can revisit, but for right now those earnest young people will not be getting internships or employment in a lot of areas where such deficits in education MATTER.

[carpetbagger]

11. You could just have them learn to read cursive.

I can read most German scripts without ever having learned to write them.

[hlthe2b]

13. Yes. The SCHOOLS could just have them learn to read cursive. Not the employer's responsiblity

especially in a competitive and intensive setting like medicine. We do this generation no favors by making them unemployable (and frankly, ignorant).

[ExWhoDoesntCare]

23. The research has indicated that simply looking at writing

Does bugger all for retention and comprehension of information.

Writing it down yourself puts the information in the brain, and makes it easier to understand and apply it later.

[ExWhoDoesntCare]

24. Also: I can't remember the woman's name now

But one researcher has shown that beginning learners who write the alphabet learn it faster and better than those who either look at letters or trace them with a finger. If they continue writing by hand, they also start reading earlier, and understand more of what they're reading.

[dgauss]

56. That's an interesting point about memory retention.

Even in computer programming the same thing applies.

I remember learning a programming language where the instructor urged the students to actually type out each line of code. There was an autofill function that would give suggestions and make it easy to finish the instruction but the point was that the act of actually, physically writing (typing) it out yourself would help you remember it.

[niyad]

46. One of the young librarians at my local branch mentioned to me

that he can neither read, nor write, cursive. We were going over a list of books that I was requesting at the time.

[carpetbagger]

8. If you're right-handed.

Not the most useful way to write if you're not.

[hardluck]

10. I'm left handed and still write in cursive

Yeah, I drag my hand over what I wrote and it's not perfect, but I still enjoy writing in cursive. There is something timeless about a handwritten letter in cursive. But that's probably my sentimentality talking. Probably also why I only have manual wind watches.

[kimbutgar]

40. My older sister is a left handed person and she has the most beautiful cursive writing

[hlthe2b]

17. Each of these Presidents were left-handed yet learned to write in cursive (some with non-dominant hand):

Left-handed presidents of the United States

James A. Garfield (March 4, 1881 – September 19, 1881) was ambidextrous;[10] he was the only known left-handed president prior to the 20th century.[3]
Herbert Hoover (March 4, 1929 – March 4, 1933) was known to be left-handed.[3]
Harry S. Truman (April 12, 1945 – January 20, 1953) was left-handed as a child,[3] he wrote with his right hand and used his left for most other activities.[11][12]
Gerald Ford (August 9, 1974 – January 20, 1977) was left-handed.
Ronald Reagan (January 20, 1981 – January 20, 1989) was naturally left-handed but wrote with his right hand.[11][8]
George H. W. Bush (January 20, 1989 – January 20, 1993) was left-handed. All three major candidates for president in 1992 were left-handed: Bill Clinton won.[5]
Bill Clinton (January 20, 1993 – January 20, 2001) is left-handed.[13]
Barack Obama (January 20, 2009 – January 20, 2017) is left-handed.[14][15]

[ExWhoDoesntCare]

33. True--in the old days

Pencils were the great equalizer back then. However...

Improvements in ink technology doesn't undermine lefties so much anymore. Biros are still useless in this regard, but some of the newer pens like Uni Jetstream and Zebra Sarasa all have fast-drying ink formulas that were developed with lefties in mind. Even old-fashioned fountain pen inks jumped into the quick-dry game, at least a decade ago.

No matter what kind of pen these quick dry formulas fill, none of them have limited themselves to the same old black-blue-red, either. Sarasa comes in at least 25 colors. My leftie husband went nuts trying out colors he'd only dreamed about using without smudging ink everywhere.

[electric_blue68]

69. Do you mean plain ole Bic biro pens?

That's my main writing tool. Haven't had problems.

I even use it for some drawings

[electric_blue68]

67. Oh, I'm left handed with a "half hook" writing position...

So yeah I drag over stuff

I still think writing in cursive is faster than printing

[ExWhoDoesntCare]

21. It's good for way more than that.

The evidence has been building in recent years to indicate that cursive writing actually helps improve both retention *and* comprehension of information for students, particularly when taking class notes. Think of it this way:

You see or hear information--that's your first imprint. Then you write it down--the physical act sends a signal associated with the information to the brain, for a "secondary" imprint. Then you see what you've written for yet another imprint.

Cursive is also faster to write than printing, plus the letters in words are linked together. As in linking them in your mental imprint of it. Print doesn't do that so well. Those are the big factors in the "retention" aspect.

The comprehension comes from what most people taking longhand notes have to do: Condense the information into a form that makes sense to them. Nobody takes cursive notes verbatim. They record the "important" parts, the gist of the data, and convert it into terminology that makes sense *to them.* Furthermore, taking notes this way means the mind isn't cluttered with the excess verbiage--the note-taker gets to the meat of the information, which better improves understanding of the material when studying from notes later.

I know that when I was studying foreign language at uni, taking notes by hand made remembering vocabulary, conjugations, grammar rules and so on "stick" better in my head. I was able to understand more when I wrote things out during class, and I could "convert" the information faster when speaking the language.

[niyad]

48. hmm, I took all my class notes in shorthand.

[summer_in_TX]

62. A head-to-head comparison of note-taking by

hand or by computer among college students was done a few years ago. Those who wrote their notes by hand did far better on all comparisons of retention and comprehension. [Research article here]

As Ex points out, in taking notes by hand, the notetaker synthesizes and organizes the information to keep up and get the essential points down.

In all tests, those who took notes on their laptop did more poorly than their handwriting peers.

[rsdsharp]

57. I wrote my bar exam by hand, too. Five sets of five essay questions over 2 1/2 days.

But I printed. I can use cursive if I think about it, but my writing is mostly printing, with a few cursive characters thrown in.

[Peppertoo]

68. When do you ever use it?

[Peppertoo]

70. This is nutty

There is no good reason to teach cursive in K-12.

It should be left on the dustheap of history.

[indigovalley]

2. Do we really need this?

I'm a newly retired special ed. teacher and my personal view is that cursive writing is just not needed anymore. Its not that there shouldn't be any handwriting instruction in school. Students need to be able to write words by hand--that is a safety skill and a communication skill. But it does not have to be in the style of cursive (and cursive is just a style). Printed letters and words allow you to communicate just as well and banks will accept a persons printed signature as official (I have done this). I have gone through my entire life of 66 years, including earning four college degrees, and never used cursive except to sign a check. So really, what is the purpose? As a teacher I know it would take up time in the curriculum that is better spend on other things. Keyboarding is more essential these days then cursive writing. My high school students would tell me they can't read cursive which, of course, makes sense because no one is writing letters to each other in this type of writing anymore. So just my two cents...I'm sure there are those who have pro arguments to continue cursive instruction but I personally just don't see the benefit.

I just want to add as its been mentioned. Writing does indeed build fine motor skills and some advocates say this is the reason to keep cursive writing in schools. Learning block letters also builds fine motor skills as does drawing and art. Maybe the question needs to be if the loss of cursive actually impacts those skills enough that the loss of this instruction negatively impacts students progress.

[hlthe2b]

5. Yes. It is. See my comments upstream.

You hinder employment for your students in many areas by not encouraging/requiring them to learn. We are simply not yet there where there is no need to be able to read (and write) hand-written cursive notes, letters, and documents on occasion.

The hand-eye/fine motor skill neuronal development that comes from cursive language reading AND writing is a specialized adaptation that is not readily replaced by those examples you cite. Read the neurolinguistics, neurological development, and neuroadaptation literature--or just talk to a good neurologist working with brain injuries and congenital defects.

[indigovalley]

14. Not everyone masters cursive

My students are not hindered by not being able to read or write cursive. Cursive is difficult to learn and I have students who have never mastered it and will never master it. Some from fine motor issues, some due to their learning disability, and some from their cognitive disability. I myself have poor cursive writing skills even though I grew up in the generation where we had cursive practice in school on a daily basis and I have none of the disabilities I listed earlier. Yet this did not impact my ability to get educated or work.

My earlier point is that people don't retain skills they never use. Young people are not writing by hand anymore nor are they receiving communications written in cursive on a regular basis (if at all). For us middle aged or older people we grew up writing letters in cursive to friends or grandparents, reading letters in cursive written to us, and using cursive in daily life. Without that component some people will find it hard to master this type of writing or read this type of writing when encountered in daily life. I'm sure this is happening in the work settings you describe where one generation has used these skills (because of their generation) and the younger generation has not. If employers feel this is a skill that is essential they should be telling schools (and colleges) they need to focus on it.

I am sure that cursive benefits fine motor development. Its not the only thing, however, that influences that development. So I would want to know the following--is this particular instruction so important that its loss is going to significantly cause major delays in student fine motor development? If the data says yes then that would be a good case to continue this instruction. Maybe someone out there has done this type of research perhaps?

I'm not meaning to start an argument here. I know there are likely good points on both sides of the argument.

[hlthe2b]

16. Then they will not be able to work in some settings where it is needed.

There will be areas where it likely will not be a hindrance or one where it would not be a potential life or death or harm-inducing issue.

Think I am exaggerating? A student nurse was observing a CPR attempt on a patient on a gurney in the hallway of my very crowded ER and could not read the sticky note that indicated how much oxygen was left in a portable tank (and NOT to use) and went on to hook it up. That mistake left that patient (whose heart had been successfully restarted) with probable brain damage as at least five minutes of the resuscitation effort was with an empty tank. Just because they could not read a simple cursive sentence.

Yeah, it matters.

[Happy Hoosier]

30. One could say...

That instead of insisting that everyone waste time learning cursive script, that people write important notes in print script, especially since i find a lot of peoples’ cursive writing practically illegible.

[hlthe2b]

42. Kindly read my other posts where I make clear how irresponsible that attitude is (even deadly in

some settings).and if you think it pisses me off to see you say that, then it will make sense to you, why.

[Happy Hoosier]

43. With all due respect...

I was a flight test engineer in air traffic control and landing systems. You know what the rule is? All hand written notes and status boards must be annotated in print. Because many peoples’ cursive is difficult to read, and lives can depend upon it. The way to solve your problem is not to make everyone learn an old-fashioned script, it’s to write in a script that is easier to read and generally more legible.

[hlthe2b]

45. You have no clue what a modern ER is like so I'm just going to ignore you,

Stop in sometime to your local big city ER and ask how that would work out. Until then live blissfully in your naivete'...

[Happy Hoosier]

47. Right back at you

You are making excuses for bad practices.

Good day.

[hlthe2b]

51. No. I am trying to remain patient with someone who has no clue what I'm talking about

and doesn't even try to imagine. I don't condone embracing ignorance--which can and has been deadly in some settings and that is what you are promoting. Do you really think given all the non-English speaking patients we see sans interpreters that they just happen to have their medical notes from Chennai, India written in perfect block print? Or that you have the right to demand everyone be as ignorant to written notes, just because you prefer to be? Cursive writing is fast and when practiced is highly readable. That is why people still use it. Whether you like it or not. And to expect students to learn to read it (and hopefully to write it) is not just to inconvenience them, but it is an invaluable means to develop and train their brains. It also makes them employable. Even while they haven't learned to speak or write in complete sentences after the advent of 140-character social media posting.

And should you ever visit a busy ER, kindly ask them how often they have had their entire computer systems go down--especially overnight-- and how they had to handle it. I can guarantee you it was not with block print notes.

[Happy Hoosier]

53. Your solution is silly...

First of all… you condescension is noted. You’re sure to convince people by treating them like shit.

Second, you solution is that EVERYONE has to learn cursive because some notes may be in cursive. If it’s that important to working in the ER, make it part of the qualifications to work in the ER.

I don’t insist everyone learn calculus because they might become engineers. I don’t need cursive. I don’t use it. I can write it and read it. But rarely do. Almost no one I know does. My wife writes for a living and SHE doesn’t. If your specialty requires it, make it part of your specialty education. Make it an elective.

[hlthe2b]

54. It IS a requirement and increasingly so in other contexts as this becomes an issue.

You seem to want to take away employment opportunities as well as to remove a powerful neurological development tool-- because it is not just working in medical care where this comes into play. Keeping 'em uneducated and unable to adapt/think for themselves may be your motto. It certainly isn't mine.

And teaching kids is not a silly solution. Embracing keeping them ignorant as you advocate, certainly is. California agrees with ME, not YOU (fortunately)

[summer_in_TX]

63. It's not just development of motor skills.

Nor the ability to communicate between the generations, nor to be able to read original documents in cursive and understand them.

Those who take their notes by hand (and cursive is much faster so those who use cursive get more down), remember and comprehend much better than those who type their notes on a laptop or other device according to research.

Notetakers by hand take down the key information, using higher orders of thinking: analysis, evaluation, and synthesis. Analysis and evaluation help the learner decide what is important to remember and understand the information. Synthesis is making connections and putting material in your own words. Those automatically help in retention and comprehension. There's also muscle and tactile-kinesthetic information entering the brain through handwriting that pairs with the visual information and reinforces it.

[IbogaProject]

27. I thought part of the reason is educators feel it better for kids to get good at one type of writing

I think some kids have trouble learning two types of writing and it is better for them all if the focus is on them writing one with very clear script. And of course learning a signature, which I'd guess they can look around for ideas based on their own names.

[summer_in_TX]

71. You seem to have been a secondary special ed teacher.

You probably didn't see the beginning acquisition of reading, writing, and spelling skills. I'm a retired elementary special ed and dyslexic teacher, where I had plenty of opportunity to observe the beginning development of cursive (and block printing) skills as well as reading and spelling in schools these days.

My students' kinder and first grade teachers had shown them more than one style of writing the letters (standard block print and D'Nealian which supposedly was a bridge to cursive, with a little flip up at the end of letters) and let them choose their own best way. But my students were seriously confused by that and instead just came up with their own way to write their letters. The teachers' training probably never helped them realize that a subset of their students would need very repetitive, prescribed, detailed instruction in order to be able to learn to write legibly. It would have been easy to pick the one best (block printing) and focus on that, but no one explained the problems not having a carefully chosen standard way would cause. (That D'Nealian curl is very problematic to write for dyslexic and slow learners.)

It was common to see the downstroke of a lower case a start at the very top of the letter and then go off into space, a little like a cursive o but the line often didn't touch the circular part of the letter. Almost every letter had anomalies that made their writing very difficult to read – and I had lots of practice and could usually figure it out.

My dyslexia training programs in Austin and the Houston area emphasized teaching students cursive, because cursive letters are hard to flip around and they didn't already have bad habits to unlearn. Dyslexic students typically need around 500 repetitions of a writing or spelling activity to reach mastery. By second grade many had "mastered" the wrong way and it would take another 500 plus to relearn printing the correct way.

Through my training I learned to orient my dyslexic students (and others classified as slow learners) as to a clock face (analog clock) and start cursive letters c, a, d, g, o, q… at about the one o'clock position, and verbally cue them the whole way through, so they would hear and be able eventually to cue themselves. "Start at one o'clock, curve up left over back around, up to one o'clock, straight down, and release."

I might have to say and show it once or twice to a regular learner and they could usually do it, but a dyslexic learner needed to see it, hear it and do it multiple times with my careful supervision so they wouldn't practice it wrong. I was able to do that as a special educator because I had very small groups. The physical feel of pushing and pulling a pencil or pen across paper is part of the building of strong memories for the shape of the letter.

These were students beginning to learn to read and write; they were certainly not ready for typing. Besides dyslexics often cannot distinguish easily between letters like b, d, p, q and n and u. So they wouldn't be able to find the right letter on a keyboard to type. After all, in their experience of the natural world most objects are the same thing even when turned around and upside down. They need explicit instruction to help them make sense of that. Then connecting letters with their sounds (and lots of letters have multiple sounds they can stand for, not to mention letter pairs, and so forth).

Handwriting and especially cursive handwriting are learning tools, powerful ones. They help make cognitive connections (and retain them) between the letter shapes, their sounds, then in combinations in words and sentences. The nerve connections between arm, hand, brain, seeing, saying, touching, etc. are all part of learning at those beginning levels. Helping dyslexics learn to read and write is just more focused and specialized. Once those strong neural connections are made, their brain matter becomes more and more organized, making future learning quicker and easier.

But regular learners use essentially the same process, it's just that they need less things explicitly spelled out, far less repetition, not as specialized techniques. California is wise to bring cursive back.

I find the differences between individuals' brains and how they learn and think really fascinating.

[Chainfire]

3. Keyboard skills may be more important.

I touch type, but I still haven't mastered the whole keyboard by touch.

[summer_in_TX]

64. Keyboarding does not do nearly as much for

memory and comprehension as handwriting notes does.

https://linguistics.ucla.edu/people/hayes/Teaching/papers/MuellerAndOppenheimer2014OnTakingNotesByHand.pdfThe Pen Is Mightier Than the Keyboard:
Advantages of Longhand Over Laptop
Note Taking]

[phylny]

6. I don't know how it's a waste of time when it's

important for overall development.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-athletes-way/202010/why-cursive-handwriting-is-good-your-brain

And, keyboarding was taught in our daughters’ schools as well.

[Happy Hoosier]

49. And there's no other way to do that?

I mean, why not teach Bastarde writing. Or Gothic black letter? We don’t write today the way we did 100 years ago. We shouldn’t expect it to remain static now.

[Bettie]

7. Cursive writing opens neural pathways

Plus, if you ever need to look up old documents, reading them might be useful.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-athletes-way/202010/why-cursive-handwriting-is-good-your-brain

If you search, you can find a lot of information about reasons to learn it. It certainly doesn't hurt kids, so why not?

I wish my writing was like my great-grandmother's. Perfectly beautiful script, even when she was nearly 100.

[BigmanPigman]

9. As a former teacher in CA

I am glad!!!!! My students wanted to learn cursive in 1st grade. They thought it was cool looking. My mentor teacher from a 4th grade class brought up a good point...how will people know how to read letters from a grandmother? Cursive is also used in older movies. What about your signature on documents? I taught printing and cursive, it was not hard or time consuming. In fact, most people write using a combination of printing and cursive is you look closely.

[DavidDvorkin]

12. Ugh

That's ridiculous.

[Owl]

15. Good!

[Just_Vote_Dem]

18. How do you sign an important document without knowing cursive? n/t

[claudette]

29. Exactly

Handwriting is a personal trait and should never have stopped being taught. In my view

[Just_Vote_Dem]

35. Yep, good cursive writing is very nice to read n/t

[Deuxcents]

61. I agree, claudette

[Butterflylady]

37. Absolutely!

If you don't know cursive, how do you sign your name? Most everything important in life you have to sign for because printing your name just doesn't cut it.

In my apartment lease I had to sign and print.

[liberal_mama]

19. My youngest child will be 30 in 2 weeks. He never learned to write in cursive, but he can read it

He's never needed it. I don't even write in cursive anymore. I just print everything.

I remember learning cursive and it was a real pain. All that practice and wasted time. I really excelled in it too. I had such beautiful cursive handwriting that everyone in my family made me write all the Christmas cards out each year. I'm glad I still don't have to deal with that.

[hlthe2b]

22. As long as he can read it...

You can see upstream in some of my previous posts why that is so damned important in some settings still and likely will be for some time to come.

[LastDemocratInSC]

20. Cursive leads to bad spelling.

Consider the cursive in the Declaration of Independence where the first paragraph mentions "the Purfuit of Happineff".

[Happy Hoosier]

25. It's a waste of time. NT

[elleng]

26. Gotta ask my grands; among the 4 are at least 2 creatives.

[claudette]

28. I'm so glad

Wish that were everywhere. I am astounded that today’s children cannot READ cursive writing. Such a shame.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

31. I didn't even know they stopped teaching cursive in schools,

I learned how to do handwriting in, jeez, I don't even remember what grade I was in, I think it was 5th or 6th grade, but that was a loooooong time ago.

[Arthur_Frain]

32. I'm all for this.

Oddly, when I was in HS from 79 on, the one thing I could never figure out was that among the kids who did poorly academically, it seemed like there was a cohort that despite all their other failures, wrote in elegant, beautiful, even cursive. It was something that they could, and seemed to take real pride in.

Our schools could definitely use more things to give their kids pride.

[PatrickforB]

34. Yeah, I have mixed feelings about it too. I learned cursive. My mom called it 'longhand.'

The Declaration of Independence and original Constitution are both written in longhand.

A better move would be phonics. Also Greek and Latin roots.

Just saying...

[Act_of_Reparation]

36. Yeah, here we go with this nonsense again.

Times change. Scripts change.

Kids aren't learning cursive. And their parents didn't learn gothic. And their parents didn't learn insular miniscule.

[DBoon]

38. and will they also teach them how to use a rotary dial phone?

[kimbutgar]

39. Excellent

Learning cursive helps children slow down and concentrate better. I have seen it as a substitute teacher. Those teachers who start cursive teaching in second grade have calmer students with better attention spans. Going to Catholic school in the 60’s we had 15 -20 minutes of practicing writing cursive daily and it helps develop concentration to a task.

[GoodRaisin]

41. I don't think I would ever gotten through college without knowing cursive.

I wrote way faster that way than printing. I could barely keep up with my professors lectures even that way.

I can’t understand why it was ever eliminated to begin with.

[tom_kelly]

59. Me too

I write twice as fast in cursive. In grade school I took pride in my penmanship and was praised by the nuns. Had to get positive feedback from them somehow

[NowISeetheLight]

44. Remember

I remember that lined paper in elementary school.in the early 70s. I used to have very nice writing. Now 50 years later my handwriting is virtually illegible. My hands shake due to meds I take but even before that started it was pretty bad. When I send something in the mail I always type it in MS Word. I figure the recipient would appreciate being able to read it. I write my name but that's about it.

[EllieBC]

50. Yes, but because I emphasized its use.

All of my kids did learn it in elementary (well one hasn’t yet but he’s only grade 2) but all of them had older teachers the year they learned. I insist they still use it even when they have teachers who don’t require it.

That said I’ve heard so many OTs and PTs say it is a great skill for fine motor development.

And there are studies that say cursive benefits those with dyslexia.

[rickford66]

52. At 77 years of age, I've been practicing "long hand" as we called it.

I'm a lefty and my handwriting was illegible to even me so I've printed most of my life. Now I've practiced cursive and found out it's still in my brain with a few toughies, upper cases like Q or Z. Probably good for my brain in addition to other activities I pursue.

[Captain Stern]

55. Writing in cursive is an art.

And, that's exactly how it should be taught...as an art. An elective art.

Other than my signature, I haven't written anything in cursive in decades.

Most people's cursive writing over time ends up looking like indecipherable hieroglyphics. Our printing gets worse also, but it's usually at least somewhat decipherable.

Cursive sucks.

[MerryBlooms]

58. Cursive writing over ther years has changed, just

Like in my classes of shorthand. Some of the very old cursive in letters between my family members from 1800's are very difficult for me read. I learned modern cursive in 2nd grade. I only sign in cursive, but sm. Blk. Prnt. All communication between myself, other caregivers, diaries. I suppose it's beneficial to expand one's ability, no harm can come from it.

[3catwoman3]

60. I have several letters written by a paternal great-grandfather....

…while he was a Civil War soldier in the Union Army. They were written to his mother. What a loss it would be if I were unable to read these pieces of family history.

[vapor2]

65. When I was a teacher's aide

I was shocked to see that cursive was no longer taught in NV schools. I am glad to see it's return

[electric_blue68]

66. Cursive?! "gasp" 🙄

I find writing in cursive faster than printing

[Voltaire2]

72. Pointless but whatever.

It is an obsolete skill. Justifying by side effects just points out how irrelevant it is.

[Chakaconcarne]

73. Cool! I'm all for it.