It's funny. We keep hearing at DU about the attacks being carried on by Israel against Gaza.

[totodeinhere]

And of course we should all be concerned for innocent civilians. But I see very few complaints about the continued attacks being carried out by Hamas against Israel. There is constant indiscriminate rocket fire aimed at Israel and Hamas doesn't care if civilians are taken out or not. Where is the outrage about that?

[tritsofme]

1. It's actually pretty simple, they just don't care.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

3. I agree.

Some are focusing on only Israel's so called "atrocities" while ignoring Hamas and Islamic Jihad atrocities.

So sad.

[TheProle]

22. :

https://www.reddit.com/r/Palestinian_Violence/s/kFq8OIYwVj

[MarineCombatEngineer]

25. I don't do Reddit, matter of fact,

I don't do social media, with the exception of DU, but what I'm seeing from your post is positive proof of the anti-Israel bias big time.

Thanks for the link, but, I still won't do social media, too much bullshit out there, +, I'm old, I really don't understand this venue, hell, I have to have my great granddaughter show me how to work my newest cell phone and Laptop computer.

[TheProle]

35. Got it.

[WarGamer]

68. What's the "body count" SINCE the initial terrorist attack?

Any idea?

[MarineCombatEngineer]

71. No idea,

but in war, unfortunately, innocents lose their lives, as witnessed in all wars throughout history.
Not saying it's right, just saying it's a fact.

[WarGamer]

73. Oh, it's a fact all right...

Rome had a contentious relationship with Carthage.

In 264BC the expansionist Rome attacked the Carthaginians in Sicily that spread all across the Mediterranean and lasted 23 years.

In 218BC Hannibal invaded Italy, 13 years later he was finally defeated and they returned to Carthage as the Romans invaded.

Uneasy Peace treaties ensued...

Under pressure from the Roman Senate and public pressure...

In 146BC, the Roman General Scipio (son of Scipio Africanus, who fought Hannibal) sieged the city of Carthage, eventually defeating the defenders.

For six days, the Romans went street by street, killing civilians and razing the city to the ground.

One of the greatest cities in history was destroyed... THREE major wars but Rome couldn't stand allowing a rival culture to exist.

BTW, after the defeat of Carthage, Rome established settlements there and called it Roman territory.


So yeah, MCE... nothing really changes, does it?

[MarineCombatEngineer]

78. I would agree WarGamer,

humans are their own worst enemies, we will either, eventually, co-exist, or disappear off the face of the planet, which might not be such a bad thing.

BTW, WarGarmer, are you by chance an analysis for the DoD, gaming out possible combat scenarios?
I ask this respectfully.

[WarGamer]

79. I'm just a guy reading books about war since I was 10 years old...

Used to think it was "cool" until my 20's... then became more and more repulsed.

I love to study wars in history but am sickened by current wars, especially modern wars which are mostly unnecessary.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

81. I got it.

I'm a combat vet in 2 different "wars", 2 tours in Vietnam and 1 tour in Desert Storm, I don't think anyone here is more opposed to war, other than other combat vets, than me, I fucking hate war with a hot passion, but I'm also cognizant of the fact that sometimes war is an evil necessity to repel tyranny.
I know this sounds corny, but there it is.

Thanks for the history lesson, I learn something new every day on DU.

[WarGamer]

84. I hear ya...

I had a bunch of friends who joined the USMC after High School... I was tempted but went to college instead... early 80's...

However... my Grandfather was on a Light Cruiser in WW2, 43-45 in the middle of the Battle of the Philippines Sea, Papua New Guinea, escorted MacArthur back to Leyte and finished up the war at Okinawa... fighting off kamikazes and shelling the island.

He passed away young and I never really had a chance to talk in depth about how he served... I remember him being open about it, I think he would have told me more stories as I grew older.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

85. I'm sorry for the loss of your grandfather,

not many vets like to talk about their experiences in war, my father, RIP, was a combat vet in WWII and Korea, he never talked about the horrors of what he experienced, he was actually quite pissed about me enlisting in the Marines and volunteering for combat duty in Vietnam.

I, myself. don't mind talking about my experiences, up to a point, it's important for the younger generation to understand the consequences of war and how it affects ones soul and mind.

I'll leave you with this:

Peace out my friend.
Daniel.

[Igel]

74. Pelosi's husband was attacked.

What was the body count?

Oh. Nothing.

Nothing to see there, I guess.

Attempted murder is still a wrong.

I try to sexually assault a woman and I wake up on the floor a while later, it's not like I didn't do something wrong.

[WarGamer]

75. wrong thread?

[obamanut2012]

43. Who here doesn't care?

[Nictuku]

2. Same place the outrage for Putin bombing Ukrainians (Daily) is

Extremely sad, but most likely true.

601 Days since Russia invaded Ukraine

[stopdiggin]

4. one is (relatively) new. the other is old (and routine) -(nt)-

[Wonder Why]

5. First of all, you "hear" on DU? You should be posting those. Second, few of them get through and since they are

mostly unguided rockets of low quality and limited explosive payload, their "aim" is mostly accidental what they end up hitting. The damage they do even if they hit a building is considerably less so there isn't much of a story to tell.

All the reporting when the attacks first began were about Hamas destruction and atrocities because that's when they were successful. Now nearly all the damage is being done by Israel with their far more powerful military so most of the stories are about their attacks. But there have been plenty of stories about the apparent fact that it was a Hamas rocket falling short that killed and injured those at the Gazan hospital.

[wnylib]

16. So, if so many Hamas rockets do not

"get through" to Israel, doesn't that mean that they fall in Gaza? That failed rockets in Gaza are killing civilians and destroying buildings?

Just because they are not as powerful as Israeli bombs does not mean that Hamas rockets don't kill people and set off fires in buildings.

So, Hamas is killing both Israelis and their own people. Yes, some of them launched near the border do hit Israelis. That's why people in Israeli villages and kibbutzim on the border have been evacuating.

[Cha]

24. I think it does mean that.. and the "bomb

that hit the GAZA hospital" that HAMAS was Quick to blame on Israel and so many Including UnTrustworthy NYT were Double Quick to Blame Israel For it.. And, some here were Pushing the myt article like it was solid gold.

And, Tlaib was Accusing Israel and Pres Biden of being in on it.

TY

[maxsolomon]

50. the quickly-updated story you're referencing in the NYT had a headline caveat:

"...Palestinians say". That indicates that Israel's responsibility wasn't confirmed. It appeared on the website for a couple hours and did not make the print edition, but it made it into yet another blame-the-NYT DU post.

If the NYT is "untrustworthy", then nearly every other major newspaper or website is as well, and globally. The initial story was that it was an Israeli bomb, simply because Israel is bombing Gaza and some Palestinians said so. The Palestinians also overstated the death toll - which is par for the course.

The truth takes a while to get its pants on.

[Igel]

76. Years ago I had a boss I disagreed with.

I was office help in a church office, he was the assoc. pastor. He was one of the writers for 2nd tier church doctrinal articles.

Since I was library literate and not ignorant of research and editing skills, he sent me off to find things. Precis, then summarize if he wanted, things. Interlibrary loan, non-English sources that fell under my linguistic expertise, tracking down suitable translators for other things.

"X said, ' ...'." If it's in quotes and obviously, hilariously, wrong, well, *he* didn't say it. It was his favorite dodge.

I was trained that if I quoted somebody I agreed with the content *or* I was setting it up as a foil to be debunked and *my*--obviously the correct, I'd have said--explanation proffered.

No. He could blithely cite something that was utterly false, use it to build his argument per his purpose, and then say he bore no responsibility for the content. "Then why cite it, if you didn't think it was correct?" Did that a few times and we were both glad that he stopped asking me for some things.

I see my old assoc. pastor in many reporters. They cite, believing and wanting others to believe; they retreat behind the quotation marks, 'Hey, it's not something I actually believed!" (Then why cite a lie?)

Formal A+; substance F.

[womanofthehills]

82. First NYT's said Israel did it, the a few days later said Hamas did it

And a few days ago they said that have no evidence either way and don’t really know who did it. I subscribe to NYT’s but don’t particularly like their reporting but my honey likes to do the crossword puzzles with me.

[maxsolomon]

100. It wasn't a few days.

it was a few hours.

[PatrickforB]

6. You know what? You're right. I just looked - its all about Israel strikes in Gaza.

Do you sometimes wonder why our corporate-owned media never gives us just the truth?

1. They are corporate owned and publicly traded. Because our our legal doctrine of shareholder primacy the ONLY fiduciary responsibility their executives have is to generate profits for shareholders. That's it. They aren't responsible for giving us anything like the objective truth.

2. In 1987 Ronald Reagan killed the old Fairness Doctrine, which directly caused #1 above, AND also allowed the spread of hate-talk radio on the AM dial, AND the cancerous growth of Fox 'news'.

3. This was all part of the plan set forth in 1971 by Lewis Powell's 'Attack on American Free Enterprise' essay for the US Chamber of Commerce, which laid out the whole plan for the corporate takeover of our republic.

But, hey, Wall Street is doing GREAT! Profits are sky-high and CEO salaries are absolutely stratospheric! Doesn't that just give you a warm fuzzy?

This is what we have now, and why we have it.

[moonshinegnomie]

7. hamas needs to be wiped out

and yes that means civillians are going to die. until the citizens of gaza rise up and throw hamas to the curb they are going to pay teh price. and there is nothing that will stop it.

[totodeinhere]

10. Thank you. n/t

[walkingman]

8. I think the biggest factor that causes many to concentrate on what Israel is doing

is based on the fact that for the last 50 years at least Israel has been guilty of an illegal occupied the territory (including East Jerusalem) and refusal to negotiate a settlement of any kind.

There is no doubt that Hamas is responsible for the terrorist attack last week but that doesn't mean the entire Palestinian population is responsible.

Also most people generally pick a side based on pack mentality instead of strategic planning. The danger of the war escalating is real and it is everyone's interest to think about the long term consequences.

[Mosby]

9. The occupation isn't illegal.

And it's not the Israelis who won't negotiate.

[claudette]

27. Yes it

Is to most of the world. That land was stolen and the inhabitants are not treated as equal citizens. And ILLEGAL settlements are still being built.

[Mosby]

36. Nothing you say is accurate.

Read about the Oslo Accords.

Read about the law of belligerent occupation.

Read UNSCR 242 and 338.

The settlements are the defacto reality, illegal or not.

[claudette]

37. Really?

I know theft when it happens. Settlements are ILLEGAL. At least you admit that

[Mosby]

41. Theft from whom?

Who owns the West Bank?

There is no Palestinian country, they rejected that.

The West Bank is disputed property.

[Happy Hoosier]

55. What land do you consider illegally occupied?

If you're talking about West Bank settlements, I can agree. Israel proper? No way. The land originally settled by the Jews was owned by them, often purchased from the original arab owner. Some Palestinian peasants loved and worked on the land, but they didn;t own it. It wasn't stolen from them. The UN Proposed a partition of the land, which would have resulted in a nearly 50-50 split of the land that is now the modern state of Israel. The Jews accepted this partition. The Arabs rejected it. To be clear: The palestinians could have, as an independent state, nearly half of what is now the State of Israel. THEY REFUSED.

And lots of folks imagine that there was an independent state of Palestine. An independent state of Palestine has never existed. Palestne has been part of various empires over most of its history from when Israel and Judea were conquered by the Romans, to when it was controlled by various Islamic empires (eventually the Ottoman Empire), to when the Ottoman Empire was defeated in WWI and Britain assumed control as the "Mandate of Palestine."

When the British has expressed support for a Jewish homeland in the Mandate of Palestine (there were already Jews living there... and had been since Roman times, but many European Jews were emigrating to their "historical homeland&quot , the Muslim arabs rejected this. They eventually agreed to tolerate Jews and Maronite Christians, though they did not support granting them any political rights or privileges.

The War of 1947-48 was a result of the Palestinian arabs and neighboring arab states attempting to eliminate the Jewish settlements entirely. The problem was, of course, that they lost. And by 1949, Israel had managed to take control of most of the territory that is the modern state of Israel. As part of the armistice, Egypt annexed Gaza and Transjordan (later just Jordan) annexed what is now the West Bank and the Golan Heights.

Frankly a LOT of the "illegal occupiers" language comes from a position of assuming things that simply aren't true.

[The Magistrate]

30. The Settlers Are Illegal, Sir

There's not a shadow of doubt regarding this.

[NutmegYankee]

11. Nope.

The occupation is a result of a failed war to destroy Israel. Multiple attempts at negotiation to end the war with a proper treaty have been made. The Palestinians have always demanded a reversal of 1948, which is not going to happen. The faster they accept the current borders, the less land they lose after each mini-war. If the 1937 partition plan (The Peel Commission) had been accepted, they'd have a lot more territory. If the 1948 partition had been accepted, they'd still be better off. Instead they chose trial by combat and lost big time.

[walkingman]

13. Not so fast....everything I read concludes the occupation is illegal

International legal opinions. At present, based on the result of numerous UN resolutions that cite Article 49 of the Geneva Convention, the consensus view of the international community is that Israeli settlements are illegal and constitute a violation of international law.

[NutmegYankee]

19. On the settlements, I agree.

The overall occupation, I do not.

[treestar]

66. I thought I just read in Jimmy Carter's book

about it that Arafat recognized Israel long ago.
Palestine: Peace not Apartheid, 2006 - had it and am re-reading it.

[yagotme]

17. Where did you get this?

"Israel has been guilty of an illegal occupied the territory (including East Jerusalem) and refusal to negotiate a settlement of any kind."

Bill Clinton would be SOOO mad at you...

See: Oslo Accords. About how Arafat refuse to negotiate, after having been given nearly everything he asked for on a silver platter.

[claudette]

38. That doesn't

equal it’s not Palestinian land

[yagotme]

89. Not quite sure what you're saying,

but the poster I was replying to said Israel NEVER wanted to negotiate. I replied that Arafat was given the opportunity to negotiate, but refused. Israel stepped up, the Palestinian leader didn't. Not quite sure how you're post comes into alignment with that.

[claudette]

90. Was trying

to convey that no matter what happened with failed negotiations or who was to blame for the failure, the fact remains that the land was stolen from the Palestinians. In my view.

To be clear - That does NOT mean that I condone the horrid attack on Israelis by Hamas.

[yagotme]

94. I understand.

My opinion is, if you don't want to negotiate, you commit acts of terror, well, you're just asking for whatever happens to you. Like negotiating with a bully in a schoolyard. Sometimes the only thing left to do is stand up to him. Talking doesn't help. Reasoning doesn't help. He just wants/likes to pound on people. Getting a good smackdown usually cures the problem, as he realizes he's not invincible.

[claudette]

95. That may be true

but so many innocent Palestinians are dying in this mess

[yagotme]

96. Then it should be up to the GAZA government to stop this, as they are

basically the ones that started it. Stop firing missiles. Release hostages. Stop doing raids. Israel is doing strikes against Hamas positions (best as they can), but I bet, if Hamas quit firing rockets, a lot of the bombing would cease. Cause and effect. Come to the table for peace negotiations. If Israel is the only one showing up to the table, it'll never work.

[claudette]

97. Ok

I’m done 😕

[yagotme]

98. Sorry you feel that way,

but Israel HAS attempted to negotiate peace, and land deals with the Palestinians, and the Palestinians refused. This is history, not make believe. The Palestinian governments have wanted to eliminate Israel in the past, and have made more than one attempt to do so. That's how Palestine lost some land, due to Israel taking it over during wars. Should they give it back??? Sure, if Palestine knocks off the B-S. They don't want to, sooo...

[Zeitghost]

34. Israel took the West Bank

From Jordan in the 6 day war. They tried to give it back and Jordan didn't want it and went so far as to strip Jordanian citizenship from those who lived there iin 1988.

[manicdem]

58. Egypt doesn't want Gaza either

I believe Gaza was part of Egypt in the past. Israel offered it back to them and they didn't want it.

Same holds true for Palestinians. No middle-east nation wants to take in Palestinians despite talking about their abused treatment and atrocities against them.

[herding cats]

12. I don't think that reaches certain peoples feeds. You have to look for it.

The reason I say this is, I've seen people deny the daily barrage of missiles coming out of Gaza demanding proof. As if Hamas isn't still all in on the destruction of all Jewish people in Israel. It's somehow become background noise.

Some out there just haven't accepted Hamas is a vile, ideologically driven, terrorist group who doesn't give a damn about the innocent Palestinians suffering under their rule. Quite the opposite, actually, they're more than willing to exploit the suffering of innocents to their benefit.

[Maru Kitteh]

14. Hard work defending TERRORIST HAMAS but some are up to the task,

as we have seen.

[Eko]

15. It could be the death toll is mounting heavily on Gaza and not so much at Israel.

I say this being as agnostic as possible on the events. In a quick search the Gaza death toll is anywhere from 2 to 3 times more and continues to increase daily by a huge amount. That's a fairly large difference and could account for that. As we know with the news if it bleeds it leads unfortunately and a lot of peoples news would have the mounting death tolls in gaza and not so much Israels. If you are anti war then you would be focused more on the large increases than the small ones. There is no need to ascribe negative reasons for this when more reasonable ones are there to considered.
Eko.

[AntivaxHunters]

18. Isn't that actually a good thing though?

Now before anyone jumps down my throat, let me explain.

There's good reason why nobody is talking about the attacks from Hamas on Israel because this is what it would look like ...

-------
Hamas fired rockets
------

That's it.
Most rockets don't get through because of the "iron dome" & because of that you simply aren't hearing of a shit ton of people being killed.

So the fact you aren't hearing about Hamas attacks means that there's not much loss of life. We should praise that 🙏

[lapucelle]

88. What about the rockets that fall short and land on the people of Gaza?

Who do you think gets blamed for that in the widespread anti-Israel propaganda loop?

Hamas is killing the people of Gaza, and they don't care. It works to their advantage.

They're opportunistic terrorist butchers, and, unfortunately, the world is full of misinformation operatives and unwitting useful idiots to spread their propaganda.

[MerryBlooms]

20. Be also mindful of those who refer to Russia

War on Ukraine, calling it a civil war. Check profiles.

[EllieBC]

21. Your first mistake is thinking they'd care.

And they don’t have time to complain. Making up excuses for Hamas is a full time job for some.

[manicdem]

23. Palestinian people need to rise up

Israel shouldn't be fighting Hamas. It should be the Palestinian people leading the revolution and fight against Hamas for future peace.

[ck4829]

26. Time for those Palestinian children to inject themselves with Compound V, get superpowers, and fight Hamas

[dalton99a]

28. Seems everyone has forgotten about the 1,400 Israeli civilians slaughtered by Hamas

[MarineCombatEngineer]

29. I haven't, but your post rings with truth.

[NH Ethylene]

31. That was horrific.

But the killing of over 3,000 Palestinians is also horrific.

There is no 'good guy' in this mess.

[obamanut2012]

45. Yup, the white hats/black hats over this is really maddening

As is Palestinians=Hamas. Hamas=Palestinians.

[EX500rider]

54. A number reported by Hamas, so we really have no idea how many have died in Gaza

And what % of the dead in Gaza are Hamas fighters (the IDF's targets), again we have no idea but I'd assume most.

[TexasDem69]

77. But we can all agree

That the “bad guy” is Hamas. That shouldn’t be the least bit controversial

[muriel_volestrangler]

32. Current death tolls: over 3,500 in Gaza, about 1,400 in Israel

https://edition.cnn.com/middleeast/live-news/israel-hamas-war-gaza-news-10-19-23/h_2f2d78a031437f75b0f8cb6f26e51008
https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/2023-10-18/live-updates-768926

About as many have been killed in Gaza in the past week as the total in Israel:
https://www.npr.org/2023/10/14/1205951247/12-unwra-aid-workers-were-among-the-over-2-000-killed-by-israeli-airstrikes-in-g

So, it doesn't seem funny that, in the past week, people have talked more about the deaths in this week.

[totodeinhere]

56. Of course the death toll in Gaza is higher.

Hamas uses innocent Palestinians as human shields. So of course many will be killed when Israel tries to defend itself. But that is squarely the fault of Hamas. Almost all Western leaders including President Biden has acknowledged Israel's right to defend itself.

[William769]

33. Think about what you wrote and you will have your answer.

[Hekate]

39. And Egypt holding up humanitarian aid to Gaza at the border. Funny about that.

[LymphocyteLover]

40. ALSO-- I've yet to hear what people expect Israel to do in the face of the Oct 7th terror attack besides respond militarily

Just stand down? Ignore the rocket barrage?

It's bizarre to think Israel won't attack the source of the attacks.

[usonian]

48. It would be very Christian of them to turn the other cheek.

WAIT!

[LymphocyteLover]

49. LOL! and of course most Christians don't even do that

[AZSkiffyGeek]

80. I did have someone tell me the needed to read the New Testament last week nt

[Bluepinky]

42. It may be that Hamas is a terrorist organization and doesn't represent the majority of Palestinians.

[obamanut2012]

46. +1

[obamanut2012]

44. Who here doesn't care?

[Happy Hoosier]

47. Doncha Know?

ISRAEL BAD, or something.

[mvd]

52. Hamas is indeed very bad

I see a lot of posts denouncing the Hamas attacks. I want to minimize the loss of all innocent lives.

[Martin68]

53. Perhaps it is related to the number of people being killed bu the respective combatants. Today I read that

over 4,000 Palestinians have been killed an 9,000 wounded. Hamas rockets are not guided missiles and often fail to kill anyone, even if they get pasts the Iron Dome. Hamas is still trying to kill Israelis while Israelis are bombing Gaza. Every death is sad and unnecessary. I suspect the lethality accounts for the emphasis on Israeli attacks. Obviously, the rocket attacks by Hamas are still bing reported or the OP wouldn't have known about it, but it isn't very newsworthy to report every single rocket that is fired when most are either shot down or land without killing anybody.

[totodeinhere]

61. It was inevitable that more Palestinians would be killed but whose fault is that?

Hamas uses them as human shields. So in its legitimate effort to defend itself many Palestinians will be killed by Israel but blame Hamas for that, not Israel.

[Martin68]

62. Correction: it will be both the fault of Hamas and Israel. Hamas hides among civilians, which is

a war crime, and Israel bombs civilians, which is also a war crime. I answered your question objectively by stating the facts. Why don't you answer the content of my answer rather than insist on your own opinion, which is that Hamas is entirely to blame and Israel is entirely innocent?

[totodeinhere]

64. Israel is not intentionally bombing civilians just for the sake of bombing them. They bomb military

targets but Hamas locates its assets among civilians so inevitably civilians will be killed. But that is the fault of Hamas. If Israel were to stop bombing then that would allow Hamas to kill more Israelis. Israel has the right to defend itself as has been confirmed by President Biden.

[Martin68]

92. Q: Who is dropping the bombs? A: Israel Q: Who is responsible for civilians killed by those bombs?

A: Israel.

Hamas is also committing a war crime by using civilians as shields. It's that simple.

[yagotme]

99. Q. Who's firing the missiles?

A. Hamas/militants.

Q. Why is Israel bombing Gaza?

A. See question above..

[Martin68]

101. You seem to be missing the point. Hamas committed heinous war crimes. The Israeli response has killed thousands

of civilians, too. Two wrongs do not make a right. Unless you accept the Old Testament concept of an eye for an eye, in which case this is 10 eyes for an eye.

[yagotme]

102. The point missed, is that Hamas keeps egging it on.

If they would quit attacking Israel, firing missiles, etc., there wouldn't be a "need" for bombing now, would there? "Don't start nothin', won't be nothin'". (Independence Day).

[Martin68]

103. Attacks by a terrorist group do not excuse the mass slaughter of civilians.

[yagotme]

104. Exactly. The mass slaughter of civilians by Hamas,

the CURRENT GOVERNMENT OF PALESTINE, is inexcusable. Glad we could agree on that.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

69. It's not a war crime

for Israel to bomb civilian areas if Hamas is using those civilian areas or structure for offensive actions.

[Martin68]

91. I'm afraid you are misinformed regarding the internationally accepted meaning of war crime.

[FBaggins]

93. Nope

It is not a war crime to bomb a legitimate military target that is using civilians as human shields. Only the person holding the human shield is committing a war crime (and is the only one responsible for their death when the strike comes).

[WmChris]

57. Civilians are people

Last edited Sat Oct 21, 2023, 03:29 PM - Edit history (1)

Israeli or Palestinian civilian deaths are atrocities. The common people are not combatants and are still considered collateral damage with no concern for the suffering of innocent families. The whole fight over control of of ancient lands needs to be adjudicated by a council made up of disinterested 3rd parties, then enforced by the UN. Well now that's solved huh. unfortunately solution part was

[totodeinhere]

59. No that will not solve it.

To be enforced by the UN, the UN would have to fight Hamas because Hamas has said that it will accept no less than the destruction of Israel. So rather than a war between Israel and Hamas there would be a war between the UN and Hamas. There would be nothing gained by that.

[inthewind21]

63. Your colossal mistake

You think ANYONE can fight Hamas and "wipe them out?" If that were the case, do tell why they still exist? Their terrorist activities certainly aren't anything new. Especially to Israel, so huh, wonder why Israel didn't "wipe "em out" ages ago?

Hamas, Al Queda, Hezbollah, Muslim Brotherhood, and and and... They are ALL groups fighting for an idea linked to religion. You can kill the people all day long but you won't "wipe out" the idea/religion. THAT should be obvious to everyone by now. ESPECIALLY Americans. But apparently some Americans have forgot we spent 20 years, trillions of dollars, tens of thousands of dead foreign civilians and hoo boy that sweet deal that is The Patriot Act yet we couldn't manage to "wipe out Al Quede, The Taliban or any other terrorist group. For every member you kill, 3 more will line up to take their place before the blood runs cold.

9/11 NEVER FORGET! Yeah, we forgot!

P.S. Do tell me what the US GAINED from the 20 year "war on terrorism" Clearly, there are still terrorists!

[totodeinhere]

65. What I said was that it won't help to drop this in the lap of the UN because then the UN

Last edited Fri Oct 20, 2023, 09:45 PM - Edit history (1)

would be fighting Hamas in place of Israel. Yes Hamas probably won't be totally eliminated as Bibi has promised but at least Israel might be able to degrade their ability to invade Israel and kill innocent people. And after all, as I said, what is the alternative since Hamas will never agree to peace with Israel since their stated aim is to destroy Israel and drive all Jews into the sea.

[maxsolomon]

83. Islamic Terror has largely receded as a threat to the US.

Al Qaeda is gone. Islamic State is mostly gone.

What's not gone? Hamas, Hezbollah, Shiite Militias in Iraq, Iran.

[treestar]

67. you are allowed to make OPs

with the news reports reporting these things.

[Silent3]

70. I think it's just having a lower standard of expectations

Israel can be reasoned with. Hamas is expected to attack without reason, remorse, restraint, or care of harm to either side.

[BlueCheeseAgain]

72. The most charitable explanation ...

... is that people expect more of Israel than they do of Hamas. Maybe it's a backhanded compliment of sorts.

[totodeinhere]

87. Okay yours is about the best explanation I have seen so far. n/t

But I think that reasoning can be taken only so far. Yes Israel can be reasoned with and the terrorists cannot, but lets not let that reasoning hamper the ability of Israel to defend itself.

[Iggo]

86. Hilarious.

[LymphocyteLover]

105. I was just going to post about this myself. Where is the news about ongoing rocket attacks from Gaza?

I hear sporadic statements about this but no actual regular news.

I have to assume that a lot of the bombing by Israel on Gaza is in response to these rocket attacks. I wish this were made clear.