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[anobserver2]

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[behindenemylins]

1. Just to entertain the fringe...

CT sites have sworn for years Allred is CIA. However, I wouldn't doubt for a second the agency is behind chucking their boss.

[obamanut2012]

9. Gloria Allred is as much of a CIA spook as Miley Cyrus

[aletier_v]

2. uh oh. Gloria Allred's involved. Now it's going to get sirius...

[Ruby the Liberal]

3. Who is preventing them from speaking?

They both lawyered up the weekend after the story broke.

[aletier_v]

10. Kelley hires Monica Lewinsky's "crisis manager".

Yeah, well, I'm not sure I'd want to follow Monica's path but there ya go.

http://www.radaronline.com/exclusives/2012/11/david-petraeus-scandal-jill-kelley-owes-millions-hires-monica-lewinsky-crisis

"Jill has hired Monica Lewinsky’s crisis manager Judy Smith and disgraced former Senator John Edwards’ attorney Abbe Lowell to represent her"

[Supersedeas]

64. Maybe Broadwell will have her ghost writer construct a statement for her

[aletier_v]

7. Kelley was in constant email contact with Patraeus and Allen

If Broadwell had access to his email, the address part is easy.

It may have been publicly available, too, a simple search on Kelly Jill Tampa.

[Lucinda]

8. It's quite possible that Pretaeus spoke to Broadwell about his court support for one of the twins

divorce proceedings. There is no reason to think she wouldn't have been mentioned at some point in time...

That said, I don't think that we know the whole story about the way Broadwell and Kelley and the FBI guy all tie together.

[MADem]

111. The huge party that Kelley threw for the Petraeus couple might have come to her attention.

[Lucinda]

121. Yep. That too! I didn't even think about that.

The surprise would be if she HADN'T heard of Kelley.

[riverwalker]

30. Allen forwarded to Kelly an email

that he recieved from Broadwell warning him about the Kelley's.
Paula knew the Ho Ho's were Ding-Dong's.

[aletier_v]

33. Paula knew the Ho Ho's were Ding-Dong's.

was this before or after she lost his twinkie?

[boston bean]

88. it was a ring ding (er) too. nt

[Confusious]

69. What?

Where are you getting all this about an "alleged" affair?

The FBI was investigating petreus for an affair. Everyone in Washington found about about it.
The wife is pissed off.

How do you get "alleged" affair to "destroy" a woman people had barely heard of before a week ago?

[ljm2002]

116. While I agree there is more to this story...

...and that quite possibly Petraeus has broken more than his marriage vows, I cannot understand why you would question the reality of the affair when by all accounts Paula Broadwell admitted to it when questioned by the FBI, as did Petraeus when he was questioned a few days later.

[JDPriestly]

122. If Petraeus admitted the affair and is quitting his post because of

it, there was most likely an affair. I haven't heard that Broadwell denied having the affair.

[cali]

5. "whistle blower, Jill Kelley"? Oh, please

yes, there's a double standard, but in this case the women involved here have exhibited such outrageous and public behavior that it's hardly surprising that they'd get more of the glare of the spotlight.

[obamanut2012]

6. She is totally right, and has been fighting for women for decades

Her firm does a huge amount of pro bono stuff for poor women.

[MotherPetrie]

12. Such as?

[OldDem2012]

65. Please do your homework before asking questions like this....

...it just makes you look unprepared and not very intelligent.

[DURHAM D]

13. Totally agree.

Too many talking heads think the men are victims of these women. poor wittle guys...

[TorchTheWitch]

24. she is right

And it's all over DU as well. Meanwhile not hardly a whisper about what the generals were doing - the ones that actually had the higher responsibility here.

DU used to be good at ignoring the petty BS covering up focus of the media but now it's nothing but parroting the media.

[MotherPetrie]

11. I've been a feminist since I first became aware of the concept

And I don't see where Broadwell and Kelley didn't bring their problems all on themselves by their own actions.

If they're being portrayed in a negative and stereotypical manner, it's because that's exactly how they behaved, IMO.

[Eleanors38]

76. Yes. "Poor wittle girls" indeed.

[Evergreen Emerald]

14. I have been thinking the very same thing.

Petraeus is given accolades by everyone--including the President. And the women are vilified.

The media, including left wingers (like Randy Rhodes), and even professors and business people are coming out from under rocks to attack them.

And the women are not simply attacked for their part in this mess, but their looks, their family, their lives.

[aletier_v]

16. " the fall guy would often be the lowest 'ranking' member"

I'm sorry but Broadwell & the twins are ranked well below "general".

So perhaps cause-n-effect are confused in a few minds.

You can argue that they're lower because they're women,
but they're getting blamed because they have lower status.

[peacebird]

19. But she kept those docs "in the clear", which is against all regs for classified materials

[aletier_v]

23. That's a pre-scandal article (Sept 27th).

Patraeus will have a problem moving to Princeton now.

Perhaps if it had only been about Broadwell & sex
but it's moved into too many other areas now.

I'm kind of wondering how the twins will fare
without names to drop.

[TorchTheWitch]

25. why?

The Kelley sisters have little to do with anything. One of them just complained about the emails Broadwell was sending her, and the other didn't have shit in shinola to do with anything with this issue. So, why the focus on them? Oh that's right... by focusing on all manner of pettiness concerning them everybody forgets to ask what the GENERALS were up to and THEIR responsibility.

The real issues behind all this aren't about an alleged affair between Broadwell and Petreaus... it's about what Petreaus was doing concerning the CIA, national security, Benghazi and why on earth would Broadwell have publicly announced in a speech that the reason for the attack was because the CIA was holding prisoners there which is illegally and which she sourced to Petreaus. Why is nobody even here delving into THAT instead of gossiping about Jill Kelley and her sister schmoozing the generals that THE GENERALS allowed and encouraged?

Once again the media is shouting "Squirrel!" and running pell mell after it and DU is just barking and following along.

[sandyshoes17]

29. I thought it was just me

The media is so blatantly obvious. Throwing out a bunch of shiny objects. Not once covering substance. Actually I noticed the story switched to the sisters when the pic of broadwell and rove came out. Which the MSM never picked up. I don't know what the story is but I do know it's not what we are "being led" to believe. They are working too hard in not taking this serious.

[aletier_v]

32. hahaha. This board must be pretty young.

Shiny objects are the nature of people.

As for Broadwell's UoD speech, nobody is talking about it because it's OLD NEWS now
it was already talked about, the Jill / White House stuff is brand new.

I've seen several situations like this. They are usually a weird mix
of unfathomable motives, each actor has different information, which
means their actions are often hard to understand, much less their motives.

I don't see that there's any spy stuff here now, just a bunch of
ambitious people engaged in different levels of games which came
to a head during the election, because part of it was driven by
the election... Kelleys hanging out in DC three times looking to
hook into the next administration. There's also a rumor that Broadwell
talked about running for office in NC and that's why Patreus stopped
the affair.

I have no doubt the public explosion of all this was managed
so as to come out after the election. I'm not sure who would have
been impacted worse, though, seeing as Patreaus is nominally a republican.

[sandyshoes17]

37. Not that young

I voted for Carter.

[OldDem2012]

68. Not that young...I voted for McGovern in 1972. The MSM has been throwing out misdirection crap....

...for as long as news has been reported....long before the US became a country.

[MADem]

87. +1 nt

[MADem]

85. The focus on Kelley and her sister is all down to Allen's fitness for command.

It's not 'about' them--it's about his shitty judgment in flirting and IMing like a teen ager with the 'socialite,' while he was supposed to be conducting a war. It's about HIS fitness for increased responsibility.

The focus of the investigators is ALLEN, not Kelley. The media may be stupid, but that's the media. They are stupid. Why does anyone find this surprising? Remember? Hello! They tried to tell us that a landslide was a horse race.

I don't think "DU" is "barking and following along." There's nothing wrong with commenting on reported stories--it doesn't mean people have bought the premise (or the paper). There are two tracks here, the Petraeus track and the Allen track; they intersect because of jealous pique, and the media is focusing on that because it's EASY, but the investigators have moved beyond that and I think, save a bit of snarking amusement, most people with half a brain see that.

[MADem]

89. Highly unlikely that they'd have him. He's damaged goods. nt

[aletier_v]

22. hello, she's not a general. :)

None of them are.

[MADem]

82. Bullshit. A CIA director was FIRED for mishandling classified material.

Feet were dragged in the investigation in order for the guy to be pardoned before a conviction was even thrown down (rather like Marc Rich, but everyone was so excited about him they didn't even notice this guy, I guess).

Rank is not a factor when it comes to who's "allowed" to throw that shit around, and in the world of DC, a LCOL is the one who MAKES the coffee, a bird colonel carries it.

How soon people forget: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_M._Deutch

Deutch left the CIA on December 15, 1996[1] and later that year it was revealed that several of his laptop computers contained classified materials designated as unclassified. In January 1997, the CIA began a formal security investigation of the matter. Senior management at CIA declined to fully pursue the security breach. Over two years after his departure, the matter was referred to the Department of Justice, where Attorney General Janet Reno declined prosecution. She did, however, recommend an investigation to determine whether Deutch should retain his security clearance.[7] President Clinton pardoned Deutch on his last day in office.[8]

Bottom line: classified material on your personal computer is ALWAYS a bozo no-no. It's not rocket science, it's OPSEC.

[aletier_v]

83. there are different levels of classified

My guess is that Broadwell's material isn't very high.

[MADem]

92. I've seen careers end for mishandling secret downgraded to CONF.

It doesn't have to be TS/SCI for there to be a "problem."

Apparently she had "a trove" of stuff at her house as well as on her computer--she's toast. Even if she can beg and plead her way out of jail time, and put the blame on Davey (and as the senior in the relationship, he does shoulder the blame), she's done for.

[tammywammy]

94. Yes, there are different levels of classification

And it doesn't matter if it was confidential/secret/top secret, there are rules to handling classified material. I cannot just bring home any document I want and just plop it on my computer. There are rules and none of them include putting classified material on an unclassified system (i.e. home computer).

[flamingdem]

112. You are saying Petraeus aimed to leave in disgrace?

That seems far fetched. He could just step down.

[peacebird]

18. Positive statement "I had an affair with a married man, causing his disgrace and loss of his job"

How is that for coverage? Broadwell may have bigger concerns though if it is true that there was classified material on her computer.

[TorchTheWitch]

34. Excuse me, BROADWELL was the "cause"?

Fuck no! Petreaus was the one who set up Broadwell even being anywhere around him for his own self-interest and got involved in an affair with her. HE gave her those documents and HE caused his OWN downfall and disgrace.

[aletier_v]

35. Media says she chased him to Afghanistan

Really, you should keep up with the story if you're going to read a lot of other stuff into it.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/9671319/David-Petraeus-affair-with-Paula-Broadwell-timeline.html

"2010: Petraeus is put in charge of the war in Afghanistan and Broadwell would visit and observe him in Afghanistan."

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/chi-paula-broadwell-petraeus-20121110,0,2584783.story

CIA officers long had expressed concern about Broadwell's unprecedented access to the director. She frequently visited the spy agency's headquarters in Langley, Va., to meet Petraeus in his office, accompanied him on his punishing morning runs around the CIA grounds and often attended public functions as his guest, according to two former intelligence officials"

"Petraeus' staff in Afghanistan similarly had been concerned about the time Broadwell spent with their boss on her multiple reporting visits"

[Prometheus Bound]

53. I missed the part where she "chased" him to Afghanistan.

She was writing a Petraeus biography, for which she had to interview him and his close associates. Where else would she do her research since Patraeus was in Afghanistan?

[TorchTheWitch]

71. what a pant load

Petreaus wanted her as his biographer for his own self-promotion. She didn't "chase" him anywhere - HE wanted HER around him to write and speak glowingly of him for his own self-promoting fat ego. Even if she did "chase" him, HE would have been the one throwing open the door and letting her in instead of saying thanks but no thanks, goodbye. Either way, it's STILL on him. Men don't just become a pile of brainless mush in the mere presence of a woman whether attractive or not. And if he was that utterly helpless in the presence of a female he has no business being ANYWHERE near national security... or anywhere near women.

Bottom line is that HE wanted a biographer glued to his side to feed self-promoting crap for the benefit of his own bloated ego, and HE chose HER to fill that role.

Your post is nothing but shear blame the woman sexist rubbish.

[aletier_v]

77. Believe what you like. I have no personal agenda other than humor.

PS you misspelled "shear".

[MADem]

93. I think they were screwing around while he was still in uniform--that's the unspoken piece.

Of course, if he admits that, that leaves him subject to recall and punishment for a number of UCMJ violations.

This is why they are so careful to INSIST that the "affair" started two months after he left the military. I don't think it did. That's just my opinion, though, that and a couple of bucks will buy you a coffee.

Now, if the "affair" started while he was still on active duty, he, as the senior officer, bears the lion's share of the "blame" and his punishment would exceed hers. However, she mishandled classified material, in a post 911 environment. Put it all together and here's the bottom line--her career is OVER. O.V.E.R. She will be lucky to exit the service without doing prison time. She'd be advised to hire the best possible legal team she can afford; one that is very familiar with the Uniform Code and OPSEC regs. I'd look to some of the jazzier DC firms that have partners that include former JAG Heads of the various services--these high profile lawyers are "fun," but they don't know their way around the system.

[flamingdem]

113. She semi-stalked the guy

and it looks like she couldn't separate her professional from personal, that's why she's being targeted.

[peacebird]

36. The cause was the affair. Both were equals in that.

[Eleanors38]

81. My god! Such a beam of light!

[question everything]

20. Lessee: the men are high ranked generals

who, at least at some point, risked their lives, demonstrated the ability to lead troops and for long period of times lived far from their families.

The other, at least Kelley, is a real "moocher" who is earning fame and fortune by attaching herself to others.

At least Broadwell is accepted by some institutions of higher learning as a scholar.

[seabeyond]

26. One stereo type is that Broadwell is a mistress

Her role is no different than the general. There is no ownership.

[sufrommich]

31. Totally unsurprised that the Daily Caller comments section to this article

is full of vile sexism.

[aletier_v]

43. I don't see how Patraeus is untouchable.

I don't see the affair as a legal problem.

I actually don't see Broadwell's classified info as a problem per se, other than fixing it.

I'm a little concerned over how the Twins got involved with the Generals,
and what all is going on there. That seems a little sketchy but not spy-level sketchy, just ethic-wise.

[MADem]

95. They've both admitted to it. So, you can "see" it or not, but it's been acknowleged.

And it's been acknowledged by the two individuals involved. If that's "alleged" to you, well...whatever.

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/11/09/3089773/petraeus-resigns-cia-after-admitting.html

“After being married for over 37 years, I showed extremely poor judgment by engaging in an extramarital affair,” Petraeus said in a statement sent to the CIA workforce. “Such behavior is unacceptable, both as a husband and as the leader of an organization such as ours. This afternoon, the president graciously accepted my resignation.”

In September, the FBI began to do a legal analysis to see if there were any charges that could be brought. They decided to interview Broadwell.
During her first interview, she admitted that she was having an affair with Petraeus and gave up her computer to the investigators.
On it, they found classified documents.
Petraeus was interviewed too, and he admitted to the affair as well. However, he said that he did not provide Broadwell with those classified documents. Broadwell echoed Petraeus' claims in her next interview with investigators in early November.

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/classified-documents-paula-broadwell-2012-11#ixzz2CaOFXu2L

[MADem]

125. Her friends can--and have--spoken for her.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/friend-paula-broadwell-regrets-damage-affair-david-petraeus/story?id=17757837#.UKpyTYfAe1U

So, we've heard from her--and she's admitted to the key feature of her misconduct. She's got problems with her military commission--I think she can kiss the Army goodbye. She'll have to be all she can be without the uniform, assuming she can avoid jail.

[MADem]

103. You do realize she's on the brink of being charged with a shit load of stuff under the Uniform Code?

Her lawyers have no doubt told her to button it the fuck up, and say NOTHING.

Are you seriously suggesting that the FBI is "making it up" and she never admitted to the affair to them and didn't have classified on her computer?

Please. I'm not really sure why you want to pretend that these events didn't happen, perhaps you'll elucidate? "Everyone's lying but Paula?" I don't think that is the case. I think that Paula is a nutter, and so is Petraeus--poor judgment, hubris, and a grand dose of assholishness, the two of 'em.

She's not going to say shit until she's out of uniform, a civilian, and she's been fined, lost lineal numbers, been discharged under adverse circumstances, and maybe even done a bit of time in the pokey. Then she'll probably get herself another ghost writer and craft a racy tell-all.

Paula Broadwell brought this shit down on herself--by emailing that Kelley woman those veiled threats. That's what started this mess. And good thing, too--it points out that we had a fuckup running CIA.

[DirkGently]

40. Seems to me the men are the ones being shamed here.

Not that women don't frequently get the short of the stick in sex scandals. It's still true that illicit sexual behavior is treated as a more damning thing for a woman to engage in than a man. We still have no words equivalent to "tramp" or "home-wrecker" that we pin on men.

But who's resigned here? Whose promotion has been delayed?

There's no question women typically get "slut shamed" where illicit sex is involved, and probably there is someone out there doing that, but I don't see a large-scale double-standard happening on this story. Clearly Petraeus is being treated as having caused his own problem.

It also appears that in a very real, reasonable sense, both Broadwell and Kelley acted in bizarre, foolish ways that caused the scandal itself to erupt. "Back off" e-mails sent from hotels and internet cafes? Getting a friendly FBI agent to launch a cybercrimes investigation?

Woman-shaming for sex, illicit or not, is not okay. But stupid shaming is fair game. Lot of stupid to go around on this one.

Allred's done some good work, but she's also a headline hound and a calculatedly abrasive shouter much of the time. She's perfectly willing to seek attention over actual principles when it suits her.

[DirkGently]

42. Wait. Why would Petraeus want to out Broadwell?

Seems pretty counter-intuitive. I'm sure she's having a hard time, but didn't he lose a big job and his political future?

Won't her book continue to sell?

What would his motivation be for exposing her, by exposing himself?

Seems to me they were both humiliated, both come off looking stupid. Meanwhile, he's out of government. Long way to go to target a little-known writer.

For what?

[aletier_v]

57. Broadwell probably will suffer more, propotionately

Thats culture and probably grounded in biology.

You can only stretch human nature so far.

I have seen many injustices, I committed a few and suffered many more. After awhile you realize that some things cant be fixed. Human nature is one of them.

[aletier_v]

66. "Would you hire her for anything involving the public trust?"

I probably would but I'm a misfit and a maverick,
and power inevitably devolves to "yes" men and suck-ups
who play it safe.

[aletier_v]

44. "SHe found out her trust was misplaced"

what ARE you talking about?

Broadwell kicked off the events that led to her own exposure.

I don't see that Patraeus had any involvement in that.
If anything, I see the opposite.
It looks to me like he tried to keep the whole thing at an innocuous level for everyone.

[aletier_v]

54. wow. did you look at the pictures of them?

I must admit that's an angle I hadn't considered. i don't think its viable and probably an injection of your personal experiences but its interesting.So you think Kelley, FBI, senators are all in on this fake affair conspiracy?

Im curious, what does a fake affair buy Patraeus? Its seems far easier to claim health problems or take the princeton job.

[sabrina 1]

62. Are you saying there was no affair? She has not denied it has

she? It seems there was plenty of evidence of the affair, uncovered after Broadwell sent 'threatening emails' to Kelley and the FBI got involved.

What I object to is the FBI snooping around in people's personal 'affairs' as they did. Once they saw, as they claim, no evidence of any crime, they had no business continuing to read personal emails etc.

However, there is a certain irony to all of this. Petreaus, being a Bush guy, Broadwell and Kelley apparently as far as we know, all on board with the 'Security State' never objected to the spying on Americans. So you reap what you sow.

I have zero sympathy for any of them. They were all gung-ho war/military supporters.

My sympathy is and always was and remains with the victims of these wars they were all so thrilled and impressed by.

[MADem]

98. She told the FBI about the affair in September, when they confiscated her computer.

That's why Petraeus confessed to it--because it was already out there. All the two of them needed to do after that horse left the barn was firm up the dates and get on the same page as far as the timeline goes.

Two astoundingly stupid assholes--they deserved each other. The American people didn't deserve either one of them in the uniformed ranks--a bunch of "in the rear with the gear" bullshit artists, if you ask me.

[MADem]

96. She "confirmed" way back in September when she gave the FBI her computer with the classified

material on it.

Good grief. They're both a pair of asshole-idiots. I feel sorry for anyone who had to be subordinate to either one of those hubris-laden nitwits--talk about failures of leadership, the two of 'em. They aren't fit to stack skivvies in a rear echelon warehouse.

[aletier_v]

60. interesting. you think he should have defended her

Not sure they had that level of relationship, although the chivalry code says that he should have, no matter what, yes?

Welcome to 2012. I wouldnt do it. Not anymore. but otoh, i probably wouldnt get into that situation anymore too. for me its just sex buddies now, on the rare occasions it happens.

[Eleanors38]

91. Ha! Ironic that "chivalry code" would raise its head in

this discussion. In the Beltway, power seems to be the key to sex and a lot of it. And that works both ways. Funny, looks, money, even Hollywood celebrity play second fiddle with a lot of women in the D.C. environs.

[MADem]

97. You have the timeline all fucked up--she admitted the affair FIRST. In September.

To the FBI.

When she handed over her computer as a consequence of the whole Kelley email craziness.

Then, they found the classified material.

Petraeus mentioned the affair because she had already admitted it. Way back in SEPTEMBER.

Likely, he wanted to make it clear that he was leaving for screwing around, not for screwing up Benghazi. That's why he mentioned it, because people would have assumed the latter, otherwise.

He had to go, regardless of whether both reasons applied. Better to go for a bit of frigging in the rigging than messing up an intel operation.

Second acts are possible after sexual indiscretion (see Bill Clinton, Elliot Spitzer, e.g.) but they're far more difficult following professional incompetence.

[MADem]

100. Yes--driven, 'anything-to-win' personality. That idiot Petraeus was quite the prize.

You need to get off the horse, though--she admitted the affair to the FBI back in September--she was the one who OUTED Petraeus. She threw her secret ex-boyfriend under the bus.

Be interesting to learn who ENDED that little affair...that's where there might be motivation.

[MADem]

107. No she doesn't. "One day" doesn't mean "today."

If she were representing Broadwell, her first sentence would be "You shut up--say NOTHING to NO ONE--I do the talking."

You don't know much about how GA operates, apparently. The only "talking" her clients do are in carefully scripted venues.

I would say she agrees with me entirely.

[sendero]

51. Let's see..

..... their "good thing" went to hell because ONE of them sent threatening emails and the OTHER went to the police.

Just exactly how much more STUPID could the media characterize them than they ARE?

[Confusious]

70. FBI. Nt

[MADem]

105. Uh.....they confiscated HER COMPUTER. After she confessed the affair to the FBI. In September. n

[aletier_v]

61. small circles

My best friend from high school is dating a woman much younger. he ended up with her husband's and her other boyfriend's number almost by chance because they are interconnected in different ways. happened to me, too.

[aletier_v]

86. Interesting choice. I consider the father to be the least revelant

He has a personal stake but no personal involvement in the events.

I'll grant you that he's more relevant than Bubba the Love Sponge, however.

I'm late for my breakfast group.

[customerserviceguy]

59. No modern farce is complete

without an appearance from Gloria Allred. The most dangerous place in the world is not Afghanistan or Gaza, but anywhere between her and a camera.

Funny that she can muster up a lather for the fake "ambassador".

[LeftInTX]

63. When this broke last Friday, I was wondering where is Gloria Allred?

[sabrina 1]

67. She's late. Several articles have already been written

condemning the treatment of the women as opposed to the Generals. Frankly I find this all very insulting to women. Presumably these women were intelligent, educated and wealthy enough to hob nob with top military brass.

I assume they were more than capable of making the decisions they made. If you choose to have an affair with a married man, you should be aware of what you are doing. If you choose to have an affair with the head of the CIA you should assume you are under a microscope. I am assuming they were smart enough to know the game they were playing and have zero sympathy for any of them, equally, men and woman alike.

I reserve all my sympathy, sorry Gloria, for the mothers in Iraq whose children were blown to bits by our war machine, which all these characters were a part of. They are lucky by comparison frankly.

[aletier_v]

80. " wealthy enough to hob nob with top military brass"

Not based on the Twin's lawsuits, debt levels and credit rating.

[leftlibdem420]

72. Who cares?

The women are Republicans, so it's funny.

[MADem]

73. Why is she giving an interview to the DAILY FRIGGING CALLER?

That's a wingnut piece of crap and they -- the right -- are the ones shopping the meme of "poor little generals, ensnared by putanas"--not the left.


The sense I'm hearing on the left is "STUPID, RECKLESS, INTEMPERATE generals--being led around by the Little Head."

There's plenty of innuendo and Benny-Hill-like conduct on both sides (as there always is when people admit to an affair as both Petraeus and Broadwell have done), but I don't see the women being painted as temptresses. Stupid people, maybe, but not the lead actors in this sordid drama.

I will say that it is becoming very clear that Paula Broadwell is an empty uniform--she has a brilliant exterior but not much else. She can talk a good game, looks good, is extremely physically fit with the running and push ups and what not, but she lies like a rug about her accomplishments, more frighteningly, she lies with a straight face about what she's authorized to do, she can't write to save her life, her judgment is poor in the EXTREME and she appears to have serious issues in the way she has managed her personal as well as professional life. Ms. Kelley looks like a bit of a social climber with grifter tendencies, but that doesn't make her a sex bomb or a prostitute.

The real and obvious fools in this pathetic little playlet are the very, VERY senior leaders, the ones with the "power," who--terrifyingly--have shown the American people that they can be conned, so damn easily, to think that their shit is ice cream.

I think Gloria Allred does great work as a rule, but I think she's yelling too hard with this exclusive interview at the very people who just don't give a shit about women, and who are still smarting from not being able to elect Mitt "Keep 'em Barefoot and Pregnant" RMoney.

All the readership of the Daily Caller will do is MOCK her. It's all they can manage.

[MADem]

78. Love the use of the term "spokes (sic) exclusively" to describe an email.

It just shows how they won't hesitate to twist words and meanings.

Daily Caller = Poison.

Large grain of salt.

[Tippy]

109. Ths whole mess is disgusting...both the men and the women involved.

[aletier_v]

84. Classified Information

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classified_information

Top Secret (TS) - The highest level of classification of material on a national level. Such material would cause "exceptionally grave damage" to national security if made publicly available.

Secret - Such material would cause "serious damage" to national security if it were publicly available.

Confidential - Such material would cause "damage" or be "prejudicial" to national security if publicly available.

Restricted - Such material would cause "undesirable effects" if publicly available. Some countries do not have such a classification.

Unclassified - Technically not a classification level, but is used for government documents that do not have a classification listed above. Such documents can sometimes be viewed by those without security clearance.

[Tippy]

104. Allred is wrong ....These women had a motive and they deserve what they get....

[JDPriestly]

108. Why are these women in Tampa entertaining military brass

with fancy parties?

Why are they exchanging any e-mails at all?

Broadwell's connection I understand. And, well love affairs take people by surprise sometimes.

It isn't just about Broadwell and Kelly. Those two are just the tip of the iceberg. Why aren't our generals focused on winning wars? Why are they hobnobbing with the society circle in Tampa? There is something really sick about that. Meanwhile, ordinary soldiers are being killed in Afghanistan and were being killed in Iraq.

If they are going to go to war, they should focus on winning and getting their troops out and home and into safety.

It isn't a matter of the persons Broadwell and Kelly. They could be Molly and Fatso for all that matters. It's about why our generals and the head of the CIA aren't focusing on their work and their families. That's what I want to know. They shouldn't have time for all the social activity. If they do, they need to resign, all of them. I know men and women who are missing out on their children's early years because they are serving overseas. If these military brass were doing their jobs and our commanders did in WWII, a lot of our soldiers could come home.

It isn't a matter of women or men. A pox on all the houses of the people who are attending parties with string quartets instead of getting our soldiers home after completing their work.

[KoKo]

110. Well said. Access to CentCom if you are a "Party Giver...who is in debt for millions"

and these Generals think they aren't being compromised?

[MADem]

114. This shit happens more often than people realize.

It's very common around any major command. Sometimes, there is a "purpose" behind the parties--things like creating goodwill between the military and the civilian community, or trying to persuade a mayor or other elected official to allow some "military-ish" thing to happen out in the community, or to apologize for bad behavior by someone on an installation...or simply to keep social ties in play in the event they are needed in the future.

Having suffered through more than a few of these soirees, I don't "get" the thrill, myself.

[MADem]

118. MacDill has TWO golf courses.

The reason that the base CO opened up his base to people who were background-checked is because the taxpayers are NOT paying for that shit. Those are non-appropriated funds instrumentalities--they must either self-sustain or they must be CLOSED.

Now, if we add 800 souls to the base population, who join the O-Club at a dues of $17 per month--when we do the math, that's $13,600 a MONTH, $163,200 a YEAR--that'll pay for a lot of greens upkeep, now, won't it? These 800 souls will spend money at the base restaurants and in the "mall" and food court area at the PX/Commissary (though they won't be allowed into those stores) and keep those businesses viable, too. The businesses "kick back" into the MWR/MWA funds and that enables that department to fund stuff for the junior enlisted at a cheaper cost to them. That "Friends of MacDill" thing was a QOL business decision made by the base CO to keep those businesses operating on base -- nothing more. The people that were picked to participate were ones that had a lower probability of being troublemakers (getting drunk and in fights, etc.) and who were likely to use the golf course, the club, etc., and spend money there.

Of course, Ms. Kelley kinda blew that shit to hell when she phoned her FBI pal and put a spotlight on the program, but this program has been working for quite a few years, now and the CO of the base is not the originator of the program--it was created by his predecessor.

Most flag/general officers that I have known, who live in assigned government quarters, don't have "palatial" homes. They do have nice quarters, the bulk of which are "public entertainment" spaces. They don't generally live in those spaces-they're like museum areas. They live in a smaller part of the home day-to-day, normally.

Above two star, that's when the perks really start (some exceptions for the two stars in major command overseas). As often as not, a flag officer working at the Pentagon, unless he has some major-ass fancy title, drives his own car, lives in his own house, and doesn't have any "servants." The "servants" are associated with command positions that are three and four star. The "chefs" are military cooks--admittedly, good ones, but guys/gals who rotate in and out of the duty. Same deal with the schmucks (an aide (junior officer, usually--occasionally as high as field grade, and an enlisted person who keeps the uniforms looking spiffy--rather like a valet)--they come with the JOB, they don't follow the person around. The people who do the maintenance on the house are assigned, technically, to the HOUSE, not the principal living in the house.

Overseas, where flag/general officers are assassination targets, they have drivers who are trained in escape/evasion and who know how to drive a hard (armored) car. Some have bodyguards (or PSDs--Personal Security Detachments) but many do not. Any flag/general who "summons" a choir or a quartet to personally serenade them is going to get fired, quickly--those assets can only be requisitioned with justification, in writing, in advance. Now, that justification might include building community goodwill, but the smart leaders do not abuse the privilege.

The aircraft are often an issue--the whole "austerity/luxury" cycle seems to wax and wane routinely, with flags taking re-purposed support aircraft for a time, then transitioning to civilian luxury aircraft, then going back to the more "operational" models.

I don't disagree with many aspects of the article, however, it is important to distinguish between a four star in a specific position and one who is a program manager at the five-sided funny farm. The latter guy doesn't get all the perks...even though he (and so far, usually a he though that's changing) is often making bigger decisions as to the over-arching direction of the military (either logistically, fiscally or operationally) than some of these "in command" party-goers.

Gates' comments are salient, too, as well as accurate in the larger picture-- however, you'll find that the flag/general officers will tend to close ranks and not 'dis' one another. They'll try to pour oil on the waters here to protect their assets.

I will also say, though, that it seems that under Dumbya, the "perks" have grown once again--under Clinton, that shit was pared down considerably but it's like weeds--if you don't chop that stuff down regularly, it grows like crazy.

[MADem]

120. Yes--they are in their third year, and will soon be in their 4th. Your point?

Last edited Sun Nov 18, 2012, 05:15 PM - Edit history (1)

They have three years of experience with the program--they started with 200 souls, and quickly expanded the program to 800 when they saw the revenues that were enjoyed as a consequence.

"Friends of MacDill" is what other commands have done, only on a much larger scale because the installation has some prime facilities and because 80 percent of the military population of the base lives OFF-base, not on the facility. It's an effort to do outreach to the place where most of the service personnel (to include foreign military assigned to the base) live. Also, many civilians volunteer to help the military with Quality of Life undertakings like outreach to vets or wounded warriors, and the access helps with coordination.

It has nothing to do with Petraeus, or Allen, or Kelley, or Broadwell. It's an installation commander's solution for a vexing MWR shortfall, that has the added benefit of building community ties, and it had to be approved all the way up the chain to the USAF Secretary as an ADMINISTRATIVE fix for a fiscal problem.

Ms. Kelley wasn't meeting these generals on the base, you know--she was meeting them at soirees off base. Weekend parties. EVENING parties. We don't even know if she golfs. Her social climbing would not have depended on a base pass, not by any measure.

The FOM program, too, is a DAYTIME program, designed to bring in revenue to the O-Club and the golf course. I can guarantee you that if the program ceases, the first people who will suffer are the junior enlisted, who won't enjoy subsidized amusements at the MWR tix/tours shop or at their club/bowling alley, etc. However, your link simply says that the "annual review" of the program has been moved up owing to the attention that it has received. I'll bet they keep the program. I'm betting that it's worth at least a quarter of a million, conservatively, a year in MWR revenues. The O Club alone gets $163K p.a. with just dues--not having to do anything to make that money.

If not for the juxtaposition of one single member of this program to this scandal, it would continue on happily and no one would have noticed it--it's nothing more than a base moneymaker, because Congress does not fund NAF instrumentalities, and they haven't for many years now.

The behavior of the generals is a separate issue. I know people not familiar with the military can't see the distinction, but not everything is a conspiracy, and this program is nothing more than a way to pull in cash for non-appropriated funds efforts.

FWIW, Kelley didn't get her MacDill pass until AFTER Petraeus left MacDill--but she was throwing parties for the bigwigs--AND Dave and Holly Petraeus-- well before the program was even initiated. By the time she got her pass, Petraeus was gone from FL and in Afghanistan--so it is very likely that she DID know the family for five years or more, particularly since the photos making the rounds of her with them are from way back when he was assigned to MacDill and on active duty--in 2009 or thereabouts--and he assumed his assignment at MacDill way back in 2008. She was probably a member of the Welcome Wagon. She certainly became close with Mrs. P, from all accounts, down the years.

You're talking apples and oranges, here, or, more appropriately, putting the Friends of MacDill cart ahead of the Throwing Parties for the Petraeuses Horse. Kelley was entertaining Petraeus (and his wife) way back when he was a general assigned to MacDill, way before she was admitted to this Friends program (which, again, happened AFTER he left the base).


General David Petraeus kisses Jill Kelley after accepting community service award presented at Kelley's home during the summer of 2011.



From left: Gen David Petraeus, Scott Kelley and his wife, Jill, and Holly Petraeus are shown at the 2010 Gasparilla parade in Tampa, Florida. Photo: Tampa Bay Times


Kelley and her sister with Holly Petraeus...and is that Holly's daughter?

[MADem]

124. Three years is a few. Your nitpicking isn't taken. nt