HRW: Israel using white phosphorous in Gaza, endangering civilians

[ColinC]

Israel has used white phosphorus in its continuing military operations in Gaza and Lebanon, putting civilians at serious risk, Human Rights Watch has said, following an investigation.

Human Rights Watch said it verified footage taken in Lebanon and Gaza on Tuesday and Wednesday, respectively, showing multiple uses of artillery-fired white phosphorus over the Gaza City port and two rural locations along the Israel-Lebanon border.

https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2023/10/13/israel-using-white-phosphorus-in-gaza-lebanon-endangering-civilians-hrw


This is an old article but news to me. Curious how many people have been aware of this.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

1. And Israel said they didn't

NBC says they can’t confirm either claim.


https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna120272

[TexasDem69]

2. IDF said they didn't

And other than someone stating that they saw smoke that looked white phosphorus there’s no other verification

[ColinC]

4. witnesses plus video footage of it being shot out of artillery

I imagine the idf is not the most reliable source in this instance. Not sure why they are being trusted more than independent media, NGOs and video footage.

[TexasDem69]

6. Because there are no independent sources who have verified this?

Every story I can find is “someone claimed the IDF did it” without any verification.

[ColinC]

10. Incorrect

Most human rights organizations have been reliable in reporting these instances (The source of this information is literally Human Rights Watch which is an independent human rights organization).


At least more reliable than Israel has in their claims that no crimes have been committed. The history speaks for itself.

[TexasDem69]

11. Who has confirmed it?

There’s nothing I can find supporting your claim. And this article suggests it’s both unconfirmed and permissible depending on the use. https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/13/israel-military-white-phosphorus-gaza-lebanon

[ColinC]

20. HRW conducted their own investigation. It is in the article.

HRW is an independent organization.

[wnylib]

14. There are circumstances where the use of white phosphorus in war

is not illegal. A significant difference is whether it is used as a smoke screen to hide an army's movements or to illuminate a target(legal), or whether it is used as an incendiary bomb against people (illegal).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_phosphorus_munitions#:~:text=Smoke%2Dproducing%20white%20phosphorus%20munitions,allotment%20for%20artillery%20and%20mortars.

[ColinC]

21. The video confirmed that it was used in Gaza

Which would be illegal. Both HRW and an Amnesty International spokesperson spoke about this

[SickOfTheOnePct]

22. Oh they looked at a video?

Gee, that absolutely confirms it then!

Hopefully no sarcasm smiley needed.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

23. Oh and FYI

Even HRW is claiming it was over a port…water generally isn’t populated.

Regardless, I believe Israel.

[ColinC]

24. It was shot from the Gaza port, and on the Israel Lebanon border

Both areas are populated. It was not shot at water.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

26. Rural area

in Lebanon is not normally consider populated, nor is a port.

But you do you.

[ColinC]

32. Gaza, one of the most densely populated areas in the world

Fired into Gaza, one of the most densely populated areas in the world and home to 2.3 million people, white phosphorus-laced projectiles have a significant chance of hitting innocent bystanders

https://foreignpolicy.com/2023/10/19/white-phosphorus-israel-gaza-human-rights-war-crimes-un-icc/

[SickOfTheOnePct]

33. Your own article

Makes no claim that these mythical missiles were fired into Gaza - it claims they were fired over the Gaza port.

Or are you offering a different article for reference now?

[ColinC]

34. I am offering multiple articles that make the claim that it was shot into gaza

That is what my last article says, it is what HRW says, it is what amnesty international says, it is what the ICC is adding to its investigation of Israel to, and there is a consensus that the IDF has and continues to commit war crimes on this level.

I do find it interesting how many people are dismissing well known and credible media outlets and experts over the word of a military run by an authoritarian leader.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

36. ICC is a paper tiger

In relation to Israel.

And the US, for that matter .

[ColinC]

37. Not the point

The ICC is simply another credible organization that has used its resources to verify similar claims. I’m just saying that allegations of war crimes -given the sources of the allegations, as well as the history of war crimes committed by Israel, are credible. I am also saying we should probably not take the word of any authoritarian regimes over that of independent credible media.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

27. Hmm

The article you linked to said it was fired over the Gaza port and at rural areas in Lebanon.

Human Rights Watch said it verified footage taken in Lebanon and Gaza on Tuesday and Wednesday, respectively, showing multiple uses of artillery-fired white phosphorus over the Gaza City port and two rural locations along the Israel-Lebanon border.

[ColinC]

38. From that article alone there is plausible deniability, I admit

“There are legitimate uses of white phosphorus, for marking and screening, but they are very, very few,” Castner told Al Jazeera.

Yet i substantiated the overall claims with multiple articles and the positions of multiple investigatory agencies including the ICC. Also consider the history of proven war crimes Israel has committed, and the likelihood these weapons were not used to kill anybody.

[ColinC]

25. ..

https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/10/12/israel-white-phosphorus-used-gaza-lebanon

[madaboutharry]

3. The title you wrote is written as a statement of fact.

There is no verification and the IDF denies it. Giving your post a title as if it is proven fact is wrong.

[ColinC]

8. Updated

To include the source being himan rights watch (hrw).


HRW is a credible organization nonetheless. The military that has had a proven track record of war crimes in the past, is not.

I imagine there are more reliable sources alleging war crimes than not:

https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-gaza-war-crimes-icc-1a42212b95a7f6ce54909fb22e0d681d

[LiberaBlueDem]

5. IDF

Would never admit to war crimes

[sarisataka]

7. There was some discussion when this was first reported

And it was noted the use of white phosphorus is not prohibited in warfare.

The accusation was that israel is using it over populated areas which they have denied.

Per available information. It was used over the port i.e. over water and rural areas. Therefore, it is correct that they have not used it over populated areas.

[ColinC]

9. Thanks for this

[enid602]

12. Out

Hope you’re watching, Biden. This could be your out.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

13. President Biden is not that weak

He’s not going to abandon Israel over something they deny they’ve done.

One side is committing war crimes here, and it ain’t Israel.

[enid602]

15. War crime

Establishing a blockade (within your own country no less) for 22 years is not a war crime?

[SickOfTheOnePct]

16. When the only way

To keep terrorists out of your country is to create a blockade, that’s what you do.

Not to mention that a peacetime blockade can’t be a war crime.

[enid602]

17. Israeli hospitality

85000 pregnant Palestinians
without food or water might disagree.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

18. Hamas is the elected government.

In Gaza. The 85,000 pregnant Palestinians are their responsibility, not Israel’s. Perhaps Hamas should have thought of that before they massacred ~1400 innocent Israelis.

[ColinC]

39. Hamas is an authoritarian regime and terrorist organization

They have no regard for civilian life. That doesn’t mean we shouldn’t either.

[elias7]

19. And what about the Egyptian border?

There would be no blockade if they would play nice. Gazans have pretty much tightened5heir own noose

[EX500rider]

28. How could Israel blockade Gaza when it shares a border with Egypt not under Israeli control

[enid602]

29. Blockade

They don’t let the aid in. I think they did let 20 trucks come in, but I think it was just fuel,

[EX500rider]

30. If you mean today:

According to Egyptian authorities at the Rafah crossing, 13 trucks were carrying medicine and medical supplies, five were carrying food and two trucks had water.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/21/middleeast/israel-gaza-war-hostages-saturday-intl-hnk/index.html

[enid602]

31. Thanks

THX. I remember seeing on CNN that it was mostly fuel for hospital generators.

[GuppyGal]

35. With all eyes on them I have a very hard time believing this. But please let's just continue talking

about the Israeli 'atrocities' ....this is getting OUT OF FUCKING HAND

[Donkees]

40. These two excerpts are from Amnesty International (First published in February 2009)

DENSE INERT METAL EXPLOSIVES (DIME)
Some medical doctors in Gaza described attending victims who had unusual wounds that
might have been caused by DIME weapons. Patterns of injury include limbs severed in a
sharp amputation-like manner, with wounds looking as if cauterized and with little or no
bleeding; very deep burns; and unexplained deterioration and deaths of patients with
seemingly light injuries. Doctors are finding it difficult to treat these patients because of
uncertainty about the nature of the munitions which caused the injuries.
https://www.amnesty.org/en/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/mde150122009en.pdf

WHITE PHOSPHORUS
There is evidence that white phosphorus was used by Israeli forces across Gaza. Amnesty
International came across many white phosphorus 155mm artillery carrier shells throughout
Gaza with markings M825 A1 – a US-made munition. These are the same markings of the
155mm white phosphorus shells photographed in Israeli Defense Forces’ (IDF) stockpiles
(see section Arms supplies to Israel below).

Several white phosphorus artillery shells hit the UNRWA field operations headquarters in
Gaza City on 15 January, causing a large fire which destroyed tens of tons of humanitarian
aid, including, medicines, food and other non-food items.2

Amnesty International delegates who visited the site found the marking PB-91K018-035 on the fragments of one of the
artillery shells which is the lot number and indicates that they were assembled by Pine Bluff
Arsenal (PB) in 1991 (91) in October (K)

Amnesty International found that the Israeli army used white phosphorus, a weapon with a
highly incendiary effect, in densely-populated civilian residential areas in and around Gaza
City, and in the north and south of the Gaza Strip. The organization’s delegates found white
phosphorus still burning in residential areas throughout Gaza days after the ceasefire came
into effect on 18 January - that is, up to three weeks after the white phosphorus artillery
shells had been fired by Israeli forces. Amnesty International considers that the repeated use
of white phosphorus in this way in densely-populated civilian areas constitutes a form of
indiscriminate attack, and amounts to a war crime.3

https://www.amnesty.org/en/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/mde150122009en.pdf