Rashida Tlaib Under Fire After Detroit Synagogue Leader's Slaying

[question everything]

The stabbing death of a Detroit synagogue board president on Saturday has ignited a wave of criticism of Democratic Rep. Rashida Tlaib, who has been under mounting scrutiny after blaming Israel for a deadly strike on a Gaza hospital.

Samantha Woll, 40, who led the Isaac Agree Downtown Synagogue since 2022, was found stabbed multiple times early Saturday morning outside of her home in Detroit's Lafayette Park neighborhood, according to local media reports. Woll was pronounced dead at the scene, according to the Detroit Police Department (DPD). A motive has not been determined, nor had a suspect been made public as of Saturday evening, the department said, adding that the investigation is ongoing.

Despite the unclear motive, the news of Woll's slaying sparked fresh backlash against Tlaib on social media, with people blasting the Michigan Democrat over a post she shared last week on X, formerly Twitter. In the controversial social media post, Tlaib blamed Israel for the deadly blast at the Al-Ahli Arab Baptist Hospital in Gaza City on Tuesday that claimed nearly 500 lives, according to Palestinian officials.

"Israel just bombed the Baptist Hospital killing 500 Palestinians (doctors, children, patients) just like that," Tlaib said in the post. "@POTUS this is what happens when you refuse to facilitate a ceasefire & help de-escalate. Your war and destruction only approach has opened my eyes and many Palestinian Americans and Muslims Americans like me. We will remember where you stood."


https://www.newsweek.com/rashida-tlaib-under-fire-after-detroit-synagogue-leaders-slaying-1836713

[walkingman]

1. Newsweek is just the 21st Century version of National Enquirer.

[demmiblue]

18. +1

[brooklynite]

41. So you're upset because they reported a story that's true?

[muriel_volestrangler]

43. They could have chosen to ignore trolls like Loomer (nt)

[walkingman]

48. I'm not upset at all. Just stating a fact. ☮

[TheProle]

2. Words have consequences

Others have spoken of her emotional distress, but elected lawmakers have an obligation to be measured in their comments, which is one of the fundamental dangers on the other side.

[muriel_volestrangler]

8. Are you saying Woll was killed because she was a friend of Tlaib?

In a social media post, U.S. Rep. Rashida Tlaib, D-Detroit, called Woll a friend and an organizing community member who had a sweet smile and warm eyes.

"Our community is devastated and we are shocked," she said. "Please keep her family and our community in your prayers."

https://eu.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/detroit/2023/10/21/samantha-woll-dead-isaac-agree-downtown-detroit-synagogue-president/71271616007/

[TheProle]

23. I'm saying

That unstable people can do unstable things and can feel reinforced by the invective of public officials regardless of intent.

[muriel_volestrangler]

25. So who are you blaming for the death of Tlaib's friend?

Tlaib? Who else's "words" are involved here?

[TheProle]

27. Ah, I see the game

I am saying:
1. The situation in Gaza is highly polarizing
2. This makes people emotional
3. When an official spreads misinformation and demonizes one side, it may contribute to an unstable person’s irrational act, regardless of that official’s intent or, yes, even if they personally are cool with the victim.

I hope this clarifies my point for you.

[muriel_volestrangler]

28. So you're saying Laura Loomer is right, and the Democrat is to blame.

OK.

[TrueBlueBlackQueen]

32. Why do you keep asking if he's saying something?

If he said something, you'd see it. If he didn't say something, quit seeing what you want to see and then fashion your point based on that.

Be intellectually honest.

[muriel_volestrangler]

34. Honestly? The Prole is blaming "words", and the only words this seems to be about

are Tlaib's. I'm trying to give The Prole the chance to stop taking the far-right point-of-view. They've said, in a discussion about the murder of Woll, that it's a consequence of Tlaib's words.

[TrueBlueBlackQueen]

45. Wow. You are even trying to make his post yours.

He said what he said, dral with that. We say TFG incites violence with words, shall we be offended when someone says Tlaib did with her words?

[muriel_volestrangler]

47. She did not incite violence. TFG does.

So yes, we should be offended when someone tries to equate what she said with TFG's direct incitements to violence.

[TrueBlueBlackQueen]

56. Inciting violence is a chargeable offense.

Had either done this they would have been charged. I prefer to deal with reality, not what some preferred narrative tells me.

TFG is a pompous ass, politically inept, overweight slimeball who I hope never gets in office again. I'll deal with that, not from a 'reality' that you create.

[muriel_volestrangler]

57. We all know Trump got away with chargeable offences because he was president

and that was an official position), and has got away with a lot more because prosecutors were afraid they'd be attacked as acting "politically".

Example:

Donald Trump encouraged supporters to rough up potential protesters Monday at his final pre-Iowa caucus rally. "If you see somebody getting ready to throw a tomato, knock the crap out of them," Trump said after warning of possible rabble-rousers. "I'll pay the legal fees," he added.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/cheats/2016/02/01/trump-i-ll-pay-for-protester-beatings

When Donald Trump said Sunday that he might pay the legal fees of a man charged with hitting a protester in the face at one of his rallies, it was the latest of many occasions when the leading Republican candidate for president appeared to condone or accept violence by supporters.

https://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-trump-campaign-protests-20160313-story.html

So you can't say "he wasn't charged, therefore he didn't do it". Sorry to remind you of "reality".

[TrueBlueBlackQueen]

60. Are you expecting me to argue that SOB's case? No. Never.

Read the room. Most people on this thread are passed about what she said.

[muriel_volestrangler]

61. No, I'm expecting you to realise that "had either done this they would have been charged"

is incorrect, and no basis for any argument.

It's fine to be pissed about what she said; it's not fine to connect that to the murder. There are existing thread to be pissed about what she said in; this thread is about a baseless far right accusation, and it's crappy to see DUers being fooled by the far-right loons.

[TheProle]

36. You're not being a serious person.

[muriel_volestrangler]

38. I'm being far more serious than saying the consequences of a Democrat's words

were the murder of her friend. I think just saying "you're not being a serious person" is a cop-out, rather than an attempt to justify your position.

[TheProle]

39. Your techniques are transparent.

So you agree with Donald Trump that spreading misinformation is justified?

See how that works?

I said what I said.

Talib’s persistent lie could well have contributed to the overall Israel-bad drumbeat and pushed a loon over edge.

[muriel_volestrangler]

42. Oh, bollocks. The OP is about far right-wingers making a specific accusation

and you agree with them. I've said nothing like "spreasding misinformation is justified". There's no indication there's any connection between Tlaib's tweet and the murder of her friend, but you've decided to play along with Loomer et al. and attack a Democrat.

Yes, you said what you said, and should be ashamed.

[TheProle]

52. Okie dokie

You’re entrenched and are playing rhetorical games. I made no direct connection between Talib’s comments and the attack, only that it contributed to a dark cloud of invective that could be a contributing factor.

I’ve nothing further to say to you on this matter.

[muriel_volestrangler]

59. You said "When an official spreads misinformation and demonizes one side ...

... it may contribute to an unstable person’s irrational act". Now you claim "I made no direct connection between Talib’s comments and the attack, only that it contributed to a dark cloud of invective that could be a contributing factor."

Now that's what I call "rhetorical games". You made the link between Tlaib alone and the act, and now try to get vague, with "it contributed to a dark cloud of invective that could be a contributing factor".

She doesn't, by the way. demonize just one side - she says both Hamas and Israel are committing war crimes:

"They were war crimes," she said of the Hamas attacks last Saturday, which led to some 1,200 deaths, many of whom were civilians, including women and children, as well as threats that the group might kill hostages it took during the assault. "It's a war crime just like the collective punishment of Palestinians right now is a war crime."

Israel has promised severe retribution, with Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu saying Hamas, which controls the Gaza Strip, will "pay an unprecedented price."

"The violence needs to stop," Tlaib said. "We need to follow international laws that protect the innocent. We can't allow one group to (claim) the justification of more war crimes. Palestinian and Israeli lives are directly impacted if we don't push to stop the violence."

https://eu.freep.com/story/news/politics/2023/10/11/rashida-tlaib-israel-hamas-war-crimes/71148560007/

[Celerity]

67. thank you for having the indefatigability to stand up and effectively push back against a fusillade of sophistry

[muriel_volestrangler]

29. Fact? Wow, that's a crappy use of the word "fact".

When you mean "in the minds of the far right, as quoted by Newsweek".

[tritsofme]

33. That's some pretty strange word twisting right there.

[muriel_volestrangler]

35. Explain. You said "in fact", when the OP is about far-right people saying the murder

was incited by Tlaib. That is not a "fact", is it? What do you think is twisted?

[tritsofme]

40. I'm not interested in playing semantics games with you.

Her spreading misinformation and knowing lies have not done anything to help the situation, in fact it may be quite the opposite.

[muriel_volestrangler]

44. Again, what do you think I twisted?

Wanting to know what you accuse me of is not "semantic games".

The situation of Tlaib's tweet is the Israeli-Hamas conflict. Not the murder of her friend.

[Beastly Boy]

46. Semantic game number 1: "if in fact" has a far different meaning from 'In fact"

Quite the opposite, in fact.

The former questions the premise, the latter asserts the premise. The former is in the post you replied to, the latter is how you twisted it in your post.

Don't tell me you can't see what you have done.

[muriel_volestrangler]

49. No. "If" does not mean "not". So it's not "the opposite".

There was no "fact" being disputed; it was a baseless claim by the far-right - Loomer, and a Trump appointee. The DUer has chosen to follow the lead of Loomer.

[Beastly Boy]

53. Ummm... qite the opposite. Not the opposite.

I see nuance is not quite your game.

[muriel_volestrangler]

58. In British English, "quite the opposite" is an emphatic form of "the opposite"

You can use on the contrary when you are disagreeing strongly with something that has just been said or implied, or are making a strong negative reply.
[emphasis]
'People just don't do things like that.'—'On the contrary, they do them all the time.'
Synonyms: quite the opposite or reverse, on the other hand, in contrast, conversely

https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/on-the-contrary

If you're saying that it means "just a little opposite" or something, I'd appreciate evidence.

[Beastly Boy]

63. Semantics game Number 2

If in fact you were playing semantics games, I would have to establish the fact of you playing semantics games before I can accuse you of playing them. However, quite the opposite is the case: the fact of you playing semantics games had been established with numerous examples in this thread, so I am indeed accusing you of playing semantics games.

[muriel_volestrangler]

65. So you're avoiding the point, which is you were pretending "quite the opposite"is not

an emphatic form of "the opposite". You were trying to play semantic games by pointing out you said "quite", but you failed, because you didn't take into account what "quite the opposite" actually means. You have not established anything about me playing semantic games.

However, the irony is that now, you are making claims in which you want "fact" to mean "fact", and not "opinion" (ie the far right opinion some in this thread are parroting about Tlaib), and you're now using "quite the opposite" in its actual meaning. You're just trying to have your cake and eat it.

[Beastly Boy]

66. No, that was your point, which was irrelevant.

You can keep going in circles and adding to the already ample evidence of you playing semantics games, but I am done with this nonsense.

Enjoy whatever pleasure you get from it.

[getagrip_already]

3. Taking the side of terrorists after an attack will do that

Inflating antisemitic passions probably wasn't the best approach, especially when all the evidence was against you.

[Mz Pip]

4. Straight up anti semitism

Has anyone ever heard her express outrage over the treatment of Muslims in India, the Rohingyas in Myanmar or the Uyghurs in Tibet? Seems her outrage is pretty selective.

[muriel_volestrangler]

9. co-sponsor of the Rohingya Genocide Determination Act of 2020

https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/house-bill/8744/cosponsors?s=1&r=45&overview=closed#tabs

On Muslims (and others) in India:

US house representatives Rashida Tlaib, Representative Ilhan Omar, Representative Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, Cori Bush and Kweisi Mfume are among those who have said they will boycott the Indian prime minister’s address to Congress on Thursday in light of the violence and repression of the media and religious minorities like Muslims, Christians, Sikhs and Dalits carried out under his rightwing nationalist government.

“Modi has a notorious and extensive record of human rights abuses,” Tlaib, Bush, Omar and Jamaal Bowman said in a statement. “He was complicit in the 2002 Gujarat riots that killed over 1,000 people, leading to the revocation of his US visa. His government has openly targeted Muslims and other religious minorities, enabled Hindu nationalist violence, undermined democracy, targeted journalists and dissidents, and suppressed criticism using authoritarian tactics like internet shutdowns and censorship.
...
Tlaib, who is one of only three Muslim members serving in the House, said: “It’s shameful that Modi has been given a platform at our nation’s capital – his long history of human rights abuses, anti-democratic actions, targeting Muslims & religious minorities, and censoring journalists is unacceptable. I will be boycotting Modi’s joint address to Congress.”

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jun/22/modi-us-visit-human-rights-protest-muslim-leaders

Co-sponsor of the Uyghur Forced Labor Prevention Act: https://www.gibsondunn.com/the-uyghur-forced-labor-prevention-act-goes-into-effect-in-the-united-states/

[Mz Pip]

17. Good

Glad she spoke out.

[gulliver]

5. I haven't heard that Tlaib took down her post (which she should)

She's 1/435th of the House. Not a whit more or less. I feel like she makes the news more than 400+ other Democratic House members. People mistake her, unfortunately, for being representative of Dems in some way rather than just a representative of her district.

[MichMan]

6. That's just how it goes

Same as we do with MTG or Boebert when they say something.

[gulliver]

7. Agree

[brush]

11. She needs to learn to stop the loose-cannon blasts before getting the facts. IIRC correctly...

she did something somewhat similarly against Hillary Clinton, openly booed her before a mic/crowd and later had to apologize. Seems she'd learn to stop the emotional outbursts.

[Cha]

20. Yes.. TY! Oh she did apologize for that?

[Cha]

16. Yes, Tlaib Should Apologize for her Post "Blaming

Israel for the hospital bombing".

And, So should the NYT if they haven't.

[demmiblue]

10. This is irresponsible (and so was her tweet).

BTW, as of right now:

The largest Jewish umbrella group in Michigan sent a message last night saying they have received no evidence the death of Samantha Woll was linked to anti-Semitism. The federation’s message was also sent out by the Detroit synagogue Woll was president of.

Jewish Federation of Metro Detroit sent a message on death of Samantha Woll: "No evidence has been shared to indicate this was a targeted act motivated by antisemitism." A security director who works with federation said "there are no known threats to the community at this time."

Link to tweet

[question everything]

13. No one claims that there is a connection. But she was a constituent and some words of condemnation are in order

[demmiblue]

15. Oh, please.

[question everything]

21. I don't know about you but I hope that my congressman will show more compassion

[Big Blue Marble]

31. Did you read her statement above?

[muriel_volestrangler]

19. What do you mean, "some words of condemnations are in order"

You're condemning Tlaib because her constituent and friend was murdered?

And isn't your OP about Newsweek claiming people are saying there's a connection? In particular, your OP link quotes far right Laura Loomer and Ellie Cohanim, a former Deputy Special Envoy to Combat Antisemitism under the Trump administration, saying Tlaib caused this.

[question everything]

22. Yes, people say there is a connection. But there is no proof. I posted it because I thought it is important

and it makes sense for some. This is a reaction of sorrow and shock. But we expect our leaders (?) to show some compassion even if they don't really mean it.

[muriel_volestrangler]

24. So why did you say no one claims there is a connection?

And what words of condemnation are you either calling for or defending?

[Cha]

30. Yes, and Tlaib was WRONG about her damning statement "Israel Bombed

the hospital". When will she Apologize for that?

[Cha]

12. REC.. TY.. So she Should.. As has been stated..

Words Do HAVE Consequences.

Tlaib & the NYT were dead wrong.

New York Times published a fictitious story from Hamas about Israel bombing a hospital

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100218386959

RIP and Power Samantha Woll

[muriel_volestrangler]

14. I am confused about what the "consequences", and to whom, are you talking about?

Are you saying that it's inevitable people will use the killing of Woll to attack Tlaib, because she's an easy target for right-wing criticism?

[Cha]

37. Check IT OUT, Tlaib.. FUCKING HAMAS LIED.. Shock.

AP visual analysis: Rocket from Gaza appeared to go astray, likely caused deadly hospital explosion

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100218387961

[dalton99a]

50. Yep. Multiple analyses came to the same conclusion

[Cha]

51. Good to know.. TY.

[TomDaisy]

54. ****NEWSWEEK IS RUN BY A RIGHT-WING OPERATIVE/GOON ******

Do not take the bait from Newsweek.

Do not let him turn Democrats into a circular firing squad, which gives him exactly what he wants.

This is not the Newsweek from a decade ago. It has been gutted and zombified into a right-wing propaganda rag.

[wnylib]

55. Speaking of getting facts straight, I wish that news articles

would stop referring to the Al Ahli hospital as a Baptist hospital. It was founded by Anglicans in the 19th century. For a few years in the mid 20th century, Baptists ran it, but it went back to Anglican control some decades ago. It is part of the Anglican Jerusalem diocese, which runs it as a charity hospital for people of all faiths and ethnicities.

[NotVeryImportant]

62. This is madness

Tlaib has absolutely nothing to do w/the unfortunate killing of Woll.

[Big Blue Marble]

64. And it is dangerous as it probably has already led to threats to her life, N/T