For those who doubt Hamas attitudes toward civilian sacrifice

[Sympthsical]

Excellent interview by a Al Arabiya journalist with a Hamas spokesman. You might have to gather yourself after witnessing actual challenging journalism. We're not very used to it anymore. How is it she's going harder than many journalists in the West? That's weird.

Transcript of the Hamas spokesman's reply after the journalist berated him for civilian deaths.

Dear Sister, nations are not easily liberated. The Russians sacrificed 30 million people in WWII in order to liberate it from Hitler’s attack. The Vietnamese sacrificed 3.5 million until they defeated the Americans. Afghanistan sacrificed millions of martyrs to defeat the USSR and then the US. The Algerians sacrificed 6 million martyrs over 130 years.

The Palestinian people are just like any other nation. No nation is liberated without sacrifices.

Hamas will fight the Jews to the last Palestinian. A high civilian death count is just the price of their genocidal business.

So, who wants to start negotiations with them?

Link to tweet

[question everything]

1. This answers the ones who lament the loss of these human shields

[bigtree]

5. portraying all the Palestinians in Gaza as human shields is a despicable lie

...most Palestinians in Gaza are just residents there, half of them children, 40% under the age of 15.

While there may well be Hamas militants operating in some civilian areas, the vast majority of Palestinians, including the ones forced south by Israel's bombing campaign against the city, are not 'shielding' Hamas.

They're just living their lives out in an impossible situation they have almost no control over.

This is a despicable excuse for bombing residential areas of Gaza, and it's not a credible defense against what's widely considered a war crime in their bombing of civilian areas of Gaza and the killings of non combatant civilians in that defensive effort.

People can make excuses for it, but it's just as tragically wrong for those civilians to be subject to Israel's missile attacks.

[GuppyGal]

10. Just by being a resident of Gaza they are a human shield. Why do you think Hamas builds all their

infrastructure underneath their dwellings. Yes many if not even most are UNWITTING human shields but that is what they are.
Israel warns citizens to evacuate and Hamas urges them to stay. What you got to say about that?

[bigtree]

21. isn't that a consequence of being blocked by Israel from leaving the Gaza strip?

...and Egypt, as well?

I'm not understanding how they are supposed to get out of the way of the bombs if they can't leave Gaza?

Who controls the borders? Wouldn't most Palestinians just leave if they had the opportunity, if Israel allowed them?

I see very little evidence that Hamas is holding them in that city.

[Darwins_Retriever]

35. So Israel is keeping the Paletinians in Gaza

Maybe because Hamas would leave as well under the cover of the innocent. Probably sneak into Isrel or the West Bank to gain more cover of the innocents.

[totodeinhere]

39. Unfortunately, if they are allowed to leave Hamas will infiltrate them and be allowed entrance to

Israel and Egypt. And of course those governments do not want to allow terrorists on their soil.

[GuppyGal]

43. Hamas governs Gaza and they run the strip. I'm sure all those underground tunnels are meant as bomb

shelter for civilians LOL ....they are the governing body and were elected. Where will the folks in Gaza go??? To Israel? Why won't Egypt open up their border then ? Yes WHY won't they open up that border?? Why isn't Egypt the bad guy here?

Hamas knows damn well the citizens can't leave and that works out very well for them, meanwhile they shelter underground with hostages and probably want for very little...and then you have the Hamas leaders living at the 4th seasons in Qatar ...oh yes they are true martyrs getting room service while they full well know they are killing and sacrificing their own people and they do feel it is for a just cause so what's the problem really.

[womanofthehills]

62. Israel hits Gaza with one of deadliest bombings so far in war against Hamas

At least 400 Palestinians were killed in Gaza in the last 24 hours, according to the Hamas-run health ministry, and 70 were killed overnight on Sunday in bombardments of the densely populated Jabalia refugee camp and streets close to two hospitals in Gaza City.

Entire residential blocks across the strip have now been levelled, including in areas where Palestinians had been told by the Israel Defence Forces (IDF) to seek refuge. Approximately half the strip’s housing stock, and much of the coastal exclave, is now covered in grey rubble dust.https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/23/gaza-second-aid-convoy-rafah-crossing-israel-bombardment

[yagotme]

66. Every time I see one of these reports,

I always wonder what the ratio of militants to "civilians" is. Being that Hamas is doing the reporting, we'll never know.

[GuppyGal]

69. according to the Hamas-run health ministry,

[NoRethugFriends]

33. "While there may well be Hamas militants operating in some civilian areas....."

Sorry, but a BS statement. You and I know there definitely are. Why would you try to minimize it.?

[bigtree]

41. they are a tiny minority of the people in Gaza

...why try and represent them as the ones holding residents in that city?

Where's the evidence that Hamas is forcing civilians to 'shield' them from Israeli bombs?

It's complete sophistry. While there is a certainty that there are militant Hamas among the population, the claim that they're shielding terrorists is language intended to portray the millions of residents as hostages, or to excuse the carpet bombing of civilian areas as a necessity.

As President Biden said repeatedly, "We must not lose sight of the fact that the overwhelming majority of Palestinians had nothing to do with Hamas’s appalling attacks, and are suffering as a result of them."

“Civilians are not to blame and should not suffer for Hamas’s horrific terrorism,” Pres. Biden said in a press release.

Are you making a different point? Because, 'human shield' rhetoric just sounds like an excuse to keep bombing civilian areas of Gaza.

[GuppyGal]

45. So if Hamas constructs one of their headquarters under a hospital that is using people as human

shields and every tunnel/room that they have is under civilians. They are a great bunch of guys I tell you they really care about their people....what's sad is that I/we care more about them then they do.

[bigtree]

53. your strawman

...not what I wrote.

This isn't productive. It feels baity and circular.

Disengaging from this exchange, GG.

[NoRethugFriends]

63. Your response is either carelessly or purposefully non-responsive.

You said maybe Hamas hiding some stuff in civilian areas.
It is well-known that they do.
You are being totally disingenuous and your response was not responsive to what I said.
Genug.

[Cha]

73. REC.. The OP posted it was for those

who "doubted" HAMAS was hiding behind Civilians" and my response was "Why would anyone on this board deny it?"

Now I see...

[totodeinhere]

38. There is plenty of documentation that Hamas uses human shields. Of course not every single Palestinian is used as a human shield,

but even if Hamas uses only one person as a human shield that is a war crime. And the perpetrators of that crime need to be haled accountable.

[bigtree]

42. the rhetoric of 'human shields' is mostly used to defend residential bombing

...and it's clearly just that, an excuse to bomb civilian areas claiming some terrorist was in the vicinity.

[GuppyGal]

46. So you're saying that Israel is doing that then........

yeah they're just like Russia I guess

[bigtree]

49. no, you just lied about what I said

...I've seen this response before.

It's a poor diversion. Notice YOU were the only one in this exchange to bring up Russia and Ukraine.

Really, with that?

[GuppyGal]

52. "you lied about what I said"

Conversation Over

[bigtree]

54. definitely over.

[totodeinhere]

51. I am reposting this message from another DUer posted the other day.

The analysis

Actually Hamas has made no secret of advocating the use of civilians as human shields to try to face down Israeli aggression.
A senior spokesman for the group, Sami Abu Zuhri, gave an interview on Palestinian station al-Aqsa TV earlier this month.

He said: “This attests to the character of our noble, jihad-loving people – who defend their rights and their homes with their bare chests and their blood.
“The policy of people confronting the Israeli warplanes with their bare chests in order to protect their homes has proven effective against the occupation… we in Hamas call upon our people to adopt this policy in order to protect the Palestinian homes.”

On 10 July the UN released a situation report which deplored the civilian casualties but added: “In most cases, prior to the attacks, residents have been warned to leave, either via phone calls by the Israel military or by the firing of warning missiles.”
But the Hamas-run Palestinian Authority’s Ministry of Interior has told residents not to pay attention to the IDF warnings.
It issued a directive “calling all our people not to deal or pay attention to the psychological warfare carried out by the occupation through rumours that broadcast across his media and delivering publications and communications on the phones of citizens”.

We don’t know how many of the Palestinian fatalities are the result of people choosing to ignore warnings from the Israelis.

Placement of Hamas missiles

Israel says Hamas is inviting civilian casualties by placing its rockets in residential areas, next to hospitals, mosques and schools – all of which have been hit by Israeli strikes in recent days.
There is some independent evidence that this may be true, but we don’t know how widespread the practice is.
The United Nations Relief and Works Agency has confirmed that Hamas rockets have been found in two of the schools it operates in Gaza.

https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-hamas-civilians-human-shields

[bigtree]

57. the 'overwhelming majority' of Palestinians are not shielding anything

...but themselves from the Missiles being dropped.

The only reason they can't be radily viewed here is because of a media blackout, for whatever reasons.

That should change in the coming weeks, so I understand the need for supporters of these carpet bombings of residential areas in Gaza to represent the Palestinians as hostages with Hamas huddled behind them (ridiculous imagery, I know), instead of just trying to live their lives in that bombed out city still under assault by Israel.

It's become so ingrained that people are allowing themselves to suspend logic and assume Palestinians aren't actually millions strong in that strip of land, but are arrayed in front of Hamas all over the city like hostages or defenders of the militants.

There little reasoning that this is a city strip of refugees who are mostly there against their will; not at the hands of a fraction of militants among them, but at the deliberate will of Israel and Egypt at their closed borders.

How perversely conveinient for Israeli forces assaulting that city to claim the civilians are in the way of Hamas, not just their missiles.

[totodeinhere]

67. I already said this in another reply but I will repeat it.

Israel and Egypt have their border crossings closed in order to prevent Hamas from infiltrating into their countries. It is that simple. And as densely populated as Palestine is there is no way to bomb Hamas targets without there being collateral damage. It is the sad state of affairs but true.

[bigtree]

3. what about Israel's attitude toward Gaza civilians?

...talk about that.

Will they fight Hamas to the last non-combatant Palestinian life in the way of their bombs?

[Happy Hoosier]

4. Israel is the one warning civlians to leave the combat zone in North Gaza

Somehow, with some here, no matter what, it's always Israel's fault.

[leftstreet]

6. Do they think Hamas would stay there after the warnings?

How shitty is their intelligence if they can't find the culprits they're looking for?

[Happy Hoosier]

14. Wait.... what?

Hamas is dug in. They've built tunnels and bunkers UNDER civilian buildings. And they WANT civilians to stay as well, because for them, a high civilian body count is part of the plan.

[womanofthehills]

9. Only to then bomb them when they move south.

Israel has lost the world’s support. Bombing babies - not good. Videos of digging out dead and live babies - not good. Videos of giving children trapped under rubble water thru a straw - not good.

Link to tweet

?s=46&t=YZgyyp4w_z7vW3neKxa6cQ

[GuppyGal]

12. No they've lost YOUR support...that is if they ever had it. Just stop with this already .

[Happy Hoosier]

15. NOT clicking Twixxer links.

Post your evidence here. The supposed bombing of the trucking moving south a bit ago was total Hamas BS.

[EndlessWire]

26. Where was the world's moral outrage

When Russia started a war in Ukraine and then killed thousands of civilians in a purposeful deluge of indiscriminate bombing? Where were the street protests as Ukraine struggled to protect itself, with thousands of civilians having to flee to neighboring nations, like Poland?

I find it less than persuasive when the instigators of war get to hedge their bets with world opinion as to who is the more meritorious. HAMAS HAS GOT TO GO. It's not hard to understand. What's hard is the precision excision of a government whose sole purpose is to kill Jews. The whole world should be protesting over THIS.

[Cha]

74. REC.. No shit!

[EX500rider]

7. You mean the civilians they give warnings to?

Unlike Hamas

[bigtree]

18. Palestinians aren't privy to Hamas' operations

...but Israelis are involved thoroughly in the reprisals against Gaza, against areas of the city where there are countless Palestinians who are not Hamas, have organized and voted to assemble a war party to respond to Hamas' attacks.

THEY are fully in control over the militarism directed against Gaza. Not so with the majority of Palestinians in Gaza.

It's dishonest to conflate Palestinians' plight with what Hamas is doing. They have no lever of control over terrorists who indiscriminately slaughter civilians.

The expectation that they have the means to avoid ANY of these assaults is absurd. They were give notice? What? Flyers were dropped? What are they, livestock to Israelis?

The ONLY way anyone can be sanguine about their plight, or believe they are responsible for it is to devalue their lives - most whom are children trying to live their lives in a hellzone - for whatever reason, have decided that their lives aren't as important as Israelis.

Why would anyone in the U.S. expect Hamas to care about Palestinians? They'd didn't elect them, appoint them, vote for them. Palestinians in Gaza are subjects of a brutal, militant dictatorship. The same terrorists who threaten Israel threaten their lives, as well.

We should expect more from a society organized enough to collectively vote for war, prosecuting a defense against a people who are subject to both sides' violence without ANY means to control EITHER assailant on their lives and homes.

[yagotme]

32. A wee bit wrong...

Why would anyone in the U.S. expect Hamas to care about Palestinians?

They'd didn't elect them, appoint them, vote for them.

Palestinians in Gaza are subjects of a brutal, militant dictatorship. The same terrorists who threaten Israel threaten their lives, as wel

l
Hamas WAS voted for. Yes, several years ago, and they haven't had elections since, but Hamas IS the Palestinian government, for what it's worth, in Gaza. Unless there's some other government there the rest of us doesn't know about. How about Hamas stepping up, and helping their people? They don't because they don't care. The more dead innocents, the better.

[bigtree]

47. it's been 17 years since

...most of the refugees from that period had children who now make up over half of the population of Gaza.

But tell us again how meaningful that election 17 years ago is to this refugee population?

Where is the 'government' control of Hamas for Palestinians?

Where's their parliament? Where is the seat of their government? Where do Palestinians actually go to petition the band of murderous terrorists for redress?

I can see clearly where Israelis voted for war against Hamas in Gaza. Where did Palestinians vote for this latest assault on Israel?

[yagotme]

56. The "seat" of their gov't is the fat rear ends of the Hamas leaders sitting in Qatar, away

from all the crap they've started. Being authoritarian, they really don't care what the people say, or what happens to them. There are gov'ts like that in the world, you know. When's the last time someone in N. Korea petitioned their gov't for redress? Are they still alive, or in a camp? Most of your questions are answered by the "type" of Hamas gov't, so I won't belabor each one. If only the people would rise up, and defeat the "tiny" number of militants that are in control...

[bigtree]

58. by that logic, we would still be bombing NK

...aside from the fact they have nukes.

Really, with this analogy? C'mon.

[yagotme]

60. You asked a question. I attempted an answer, using an analogy.

When the gov't has all the guns and the power, where does one go for grievances?

[LauraInLA]

64. Don't Blame Gazans for Hamas

My opinion: it would be almost impossible for the Gazans to “depose” Hamas, which controls almost all aspects of life on the Strip. You could call it a dictatorship, as Hamas controls the economy, military, etc. I’ve excerpted this article, but it’s all an important read.

From https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2023/10/dont-blame-gazans-for-hamas.html

Recent survey data paints a much more complicated picture of Gazan public opinion than conventional wisdom would have you believe. In a Washington Institute poll in July, a 57 percent majority indicated a positive opinion of Hamas, but greater numbers expressed positive views of both Fatah (the secular party in charge of the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank) and other armed groups. However, over 60 percent supported Hamas maintaining a ceasefire with Israel, and 50 percent said Hamas should stop calling for Israel’s destruction and support a two-state solution instead. Other recent polling from the Palestinian Center for Policy and Survey Research found that 77 percent of Gazans want new legislative and presidential elections in the Palestinian territories, but 67 percent of all Palestinians don’t see that happening anytime soon. In a hypothetical election, Hamas would win slightly over Fatah, 34 to 31 percent, but a 43 percent plurality of Palestinians believe neither group deserves to represent them.

Meanwhile, 73 percent said they believed there was corruption in Hamas-run institutions in the Gaza Strip, and 59 percent of Gazans said they could not criticize Hamas authorities without fear. These data points are important in understanding why the second part of the argument for collective blame (“Why don’t they just get rid of them?”) is nonsensical.

Overthrowing a government, even in a pseudo-state like Gaza, is much easier said than done. This is doubly true when the government is a violent organization of religious fanatics. Many Gazans would prefer not to be governed by Hamas militants, but they can’t simply start up a campaign to get rid of them — not without grave risks to their lives, livelihoods, and families. For one thing, they are too busy struggling to survive from day to day. For another, Hamas cements its hold on power through an outsize role in the Gazan economy: It is the only organization that can reliably pay salaries, it maintains a stranglehold on inflows of foreign aid, and it keeps Gaza dependent on Israel for water and electricity by refusing to build infrastructure instead of rockets. If your ability to feed your family depends on Hamas patronage, even if you’d like to stand up to them, why risk it?

[EX500rider]

71. "Flyers were dropped? What are they, livestock to Israelis?" I don't think livestock can read..

...so dropping fliers on them is useless.

However dropping fliers warning civilian's to leave that area about to be bombed is a good thing, I don't think the civilians who were slaughtered in the Kibbutz's got that choice.

The US dropped fliers on both Hiroshima and Nagasaki before they were A-bombed, perhaps more civilians should have taken those seriously.

They read as such:

Read this carefully as it may save your life or the life of a relative or friend.

In the next few days, some or all of the cities named on the reverse side will be destroyed by American bombs. These cities contain military installations and workshops or factories which produce military goods.

We are determined to destroy all of the tools of the military clique which they are using to prolong this useless war. But, unfortunately, bombs have no eyes. So, in accordance with America's humanitarian policies, the American Air Force, which does not wish to injure innocent people, now gives you warning to evacuate the cities named and save your lives.

America is not fighting the Japanese people but is fighting the military clique which has enslaved the Japanese people.

The peace which America will bring will free the people from the oppression of the military clique and mean the emergence of a new and better Japan. You can restore peace by demanding new and good leaders who will end the war. We cannot promise that only these cities will be among those attacked but some or all of them will be, so heed this warning and evacuate these cities immediately.

[Sympthsical]

8. If you can't see the difference

Between a society that actively tries to prevent the loss of innocent life and regrets it and one that happily waxes sentimental about mass innocent death in past wars, I don't know what to tell you.

[bigtree]

19. making shit up about what I believe

...is par for this thread.

[Sympthsical]

27. We work with the clay we have

It's like trying to pin down a black hole. We can measure for mass and location based on how objects orbit around it.

Similarly, when one is trying to avoid answering, redirect a topic, or talk around giving a direct opinion or answer on the salient issue being discussed, others can divine the beliefs or opinions based on how the obfuscation revolves around the central point not being discussed.

The best way to play hide-and-go-seek with beliefs is to not leave clues scattered about or put quite so many objects in orbit around it.

[bigtree]

50. that sounds like the definition of baiting or trolling

...your mileage may vary.

[Cha]

75. REC

[Darwins_Retriever]

37. The Arab nations are secretly rooting for the war

Arab nations see Palestinians as the lowest form of human. They hate them. But not quite as much as they hate Israel.

[BlueCheeseAgain]

11. It's such a weird situation...

... where the only government that's expected to care about Palestinian civilians is Israel's.

[Happy Hoosier]

16. Yeah, no mention from these folks....

of the daily rockets that Hamas and others continue to fire into Israel with the INTENTION of causing civilian casualties.

Gross.

[Sympthsical]

17. It's like the successful child being held to higher standards

You see this sometimes. Two kids. One excels in school. The other doesn't. The parents then put all their expectations on the successful kid while expecting nothing much from the struggling one. If the successful kid screws up in any way, the disappointment is real. If the other kid messes up - well, what did anyone expect to happen?

People think this is a rational way to engage Israel/Hamas.

The fact that Israel is the one who actually considers innocent life in the first place and doesn't go full ham on Gaza never crosses their minds. They take for granted Israel being a westernized democracy with expectations of meeting standards. They have no expectations or standards for Hamas or Palestinians. Just, "Well, what did you expect?"

This is a very mild form of anti-Arab bigotry, I think.

[BlueCheeseAgain]

22. As a terrible ex-president said...

the soft bigotry of low expectations.

[Mosby]

29. Michael Gerson came up with that.

He was the primary speechwriter for Bush. Neocon, Evangelical, died at 58 from cancer.

[bigtree]

28. where do you live. Is it America?

...as an American, I support both Israelis and Palestinians.

Both have ties to this country which are deep and enduring.

Why shouldn't American expect a nation that can organize and vote for a coalition government to go to war (an Israeli government that struggled to coalese behind anything else) to be more responsible for their actions than a terrorist group which has no lever of accountability to Palestinians in Gaza?

Residents of Gaza haven't voted for ANYTHING since Arafat died. There is no Gaza 'government.' The residents, 40% there under the age of 15, live under a brutal dictatorship.

The 'bigotry' here isn't in our expectation that Palestinians are capable of reasoning, it's the expectation that Israel's military, fully accountable to the Israeli people, is fully responsible for where their missles are targeted.

This sophistry that Palestinians are able to protect innocent life in Gaza on their own initiative is belied by Israel's refusal to grant them that right to determine their own life course, including leaving that hellzone, which Israel refuses to allow.

[Sympthsical]

44. As I said, no expectations

You're just proving the point.

You have zero expectations for one side. None. Everything that's happened fell from a clear blue sky. Just sort of appeared one day.

Somehow, everything is Israel's responsibility no matter what.

That orbit, man. It's a killer.

[bigtree]

20. show me where Palestinians have voted for any of hamas' violence

...where was that election held?

Palestinians haven't had an election in Gaza since Arafat died, but they're still expected to account for a terrorist group which wantonly slaughters civilians.

[BlueCheeseAgain]

23. I just meant that nobody expects Hamas...

... which is the only government that exists in Gaza, to take any steps to minimize casualties on their own civilians.

[bigtree]

24. oh, hell no. You're right

...they don't give a fuck about the residents of Gaza.

Most of Hamas' leaders aren't even there, much less taking care of anyone caught up in the shit they started.

[dalton99a]

13. Hamas leaders live in luxury abroad while their followers die in the rubble

[rollin74]

25. Hamas thinks nothing of hiding behind civilians, including women and children. That Hamas spokesman is a terrorist and a monster.

[bigtree]

30. that's a bit simplistic. Hamas is a tiny fraction of the millions in Gaza

...and it's Israel who has stood in the way of Palestinians exiting Gaza for decades, so it's more than a little disingenuous for them to claim Hamas is holding them there.

[yagotme]

34. If they are such a "tiny" fraction, what keeps all the Joe Blow Palestinians from taking out

Hamas? I think the "tiny" part isn't that tiny. Don't ask me for exact numbers, I don't have that, unless you are willing to provide them to back your statement.

[bigtree]

59. wow are you precient for expecting an unarmed civilian population

...could 'take out' armed terrorists who slaughter civilians.

Half of them children, 40% under the age of 15.

Just some glaring brilliance there, yagotme.

[yagotme]

65. My argument has been that Hamas isn't so "tiny". Some numbers I kinda crunched:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=18364004

Whether or not you think these numbers are close, I haven't seen anything else posted here that even attempts to estimate Hamas' number.

And, why not? A handful of Jews kept nearly a division of German soldiers occupied in the Warsaw ghetto for quite a while in WW2, starting out with just a few handguns and explosives. Kill a soldier, take his rifle. Give your pistol to your associate. Kill 2 soldiers, take their rifles. Give them to 2 associates. Kill 4 soldiers,...

[The Magistrate]

70. Cold, But Fair, Sir

Boil the thing down, that's what's left.

[bigtree]

36. what are Israeli children being taught about Palestinians?

...I get the reticence in posting negative things about Israel, but you can find similar instances of demonizing Arabs throughout Israeli society.

Neither instance would be a fair representation of a people. It's just misinformation - this war porn report intended for the obvious purpose of dehumanizing the impression people may get of Palestinians, the 'overwhelming' number of whom are NOT Hamas.

[GuppyGal]

48. I'm sorry BigTree but whatever you can find out about Israel doing something like this please share it

and I'm sure if you even could find something, it would pale in comparison. It's like you're not being objective if you can't call what these kids are saying what it is....deeply taught hate from the moment of birth....we already know that and it's nothing new.

[bigtree]

61. I won't

...it's deliberately inflammatory.

I will say that you don't have to go far outside of the Israeli government or their defense leadership to find those sentiments, which anyone can reason aren't restricted to adults.

I'm 63, and I've witnessed a great deal out of that region. Done now.

[William769]

40. K&R.

[Maru Kitteh]

55. BOOKMARKED

Because I keep hearing, it doesn’t make any sense, why would Hamas do that to their own people, it only makes sense for Israel to have done it, because Hamas wouldn’t do that.

[yagotme]

68. To Hamas, to die in a war against Israel is the quickest way to Paradise.

You live in squalor, and Paradise is promised to you, if you die killing/defending against Israeli's, then why not???

[Cha]

72. Why would anyone on this board "deny" that the Bloodthirsty

HAMAS Terrorist Org is Hiding behind Civilians?

Why would they believe HAMAS' Fucking LIES.. like "...Israel bombed that hospital.."? Because the fucking nyt said so?

TY for the interview.



ETA.. Now I see on this Very Thread.. ".the Denial"..

[GuppyGal]

76. I don't know why anyone would

[GuppyGal]

77. Recommended for educational purposes