Obama: Israeli military strategy ignoring human costs will 'backfire'

[Big Blue Marble]

Former president Barack Obama posted his thoughts on the conflict to Medium. He acknowledged that Palestinians are continuing to be displaced by a settler movement backed by Israeli policies, but he added that antisemitism and hate toward Palestinians and/or Arabs and Muslims cannot be tolerated.

snip

“The world is watching closely as events in the region unfold, and any Israeli military strategy that ignores the human costs could ultimately backfire,” he wrote.

snip

He said the Israeli government’s decision to cut off food, water and electricity to a captive civilian population could worsen a growing humanitarian crisis but also “further harden Palestinian attitudes for generations, erode global support for Israel, play into the hands of Israel’s enemies, and undermine long term efforts to achieve peace and stability in the region.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/10/23/israel-gaza-war-news-hamas/#link-7FLQEVS4E5BJFIE7GN3DBBW27A

[BeyondGeography]

1. Bibi always got along better with Biden

To Obama’s credit.

[TomDaisy]

55. yep. Bibi used the racists in Congress, including Boehner, to backstab Obama.

[jcgoldie]

2. I fear that if Obama shared those thoughts here on DU...

...he would be accused of being anti-Semitic.

[bigtree]

3. it's early days, yet

...

[Think. Again.]

8. Thank you for sharing that...

...I strongly agree with you.

[TheProle]

10. No he wouldn't

He opened his article with a full-throated acknowledgement of the atrocities committed by Hamas and unqualified condemnation, a simple preamble to any productive conversation about Israel's policies:

It’s been 17 days since Hamas launched its horrific attack against Israel, killing over 1,400 Israeli citizens, including defenseless women, children and the elderly. In the aftermath of such unspeakable brutality, the U.S. government and the American people have shared in the grief of families, prayed for the return of loved ones, and rightly declared solidarity with the Israeli people.

[Think. Again.]

13. I have to disagree with you...

...I have had numerous posts here on DU that were responded to negatively after being either taken out of context, or outright manipulated to justify those responses.

DU is a great thing we share, but we share it widely and some of us seem to be here strictly to assert their own positions, and not to (maturely) discuss differing points of view.

[TheProle]

20. Not my experience

Most of the anti-Israel posts pay a bit of lip service, at best, in condemning Hamas.

[Think. Again.]

29. You haven't read the reply posts...

...where posts are manipulated to frame the poster as having a position that they never even hinted at in the post?

And that happens in all sorts of threads, not just the current hamas/Isreal threads...

[sarisataka]

11. Not if you read what he said

Rather than just a questionable summary.

[Think. Again.]

15. Even full and clear statements...

...are taken out of context and twisted around here on DU, to justify harsh responses meant to denigrate opposing points of view.

It can be a sad state of affairs, and my biggest fear is that newcomers who are hoping for intelligent, mature discussions on serious issues will not want to put up with passive aggressive harassment when they are trying to support a positive and successful path for the Democratic party.

[ShazzieB]

39. Hmmmmm.

I have seen posts where you accused people of twisting the meaning of your comments as you describe, but none where I thought that's actually what they were doing.

I've also seem posts where you have done the same thing you're accusing others of here.

Maybe it takes one to know one?

[Think. Again.]

51. Maybe you're not being...

...truthful?

[Butterflylady]

43. You are 100% right.

I am afraid of giving my thoughts on this matter for fear of being attacked or being misconstrued. I've been reading DU since 2002 and I never felt that way before.

[MOMFUDSKI]

45. The back and forth over the Israel/Palestine

issue here on DU just gives us all a little taste of what it has been over there forever. Doesn’t feel good.

[Cha]

14. You'd be Wrong. Pres Obama would Never be

Accused "anti-Semitic" as you "fear".

ETA.. "Accused of"

[jcgoldie]

16. I agree he would not be Cha

That's not what I said.

[Cha]

19. Sorry! i left Out "Accused Of".. EDITED my response.

[Think. Again.]

18. I don't see where...

...jcgoldie either stated or implied they feared Obama would "be" anti-semitic.

I believe you are either manipulating their statement intentionally or that you have reading comprehension challenges.

[AntivaxHunters]

26. Agreed 💯

[TomDaisy]

59. +1

[JI7]

41. Nope he said something similar to Padma Lakshmi and others

who are getting a lot of hate by the pro Palestinian and anti Israel side becsuse they can't accept any sympathy towards Jews.

[sarisataka]

4. Perhaps it is a simple error in the article

However the line "but he added that antisemitism and hate toward Palestinians and/or Arabs and Muslims cannot be tolerated" gives the appearance that Obama is conflating the term antisemitism with hate towards Palestinians...

Reading his statement on Medium, it is clear he is using the term antisemitism correctly, referring to hatred of Jews, and separately (appropriately) denouncing "hate toward Palestinians and/or Arabs and Muslims"

I agree with Obama that neither are tolerable

[leftstreet]

6. I don't think it's an error

Is there a term for "hate toward Palestinians and/or Arabs and Muslims?"

[sarisataka]

9. Not an all-encompassing one

That I am aware of.

Most would say Islamophobia but that doesn't include the minority of non-Islamic Palestinians and Arabs.

[SYFROYH]

25. I thought Palestinians were also Semetic.

[sarisataka]

31. They are part of the Semitic language group

However it is now considered obsolete to apply the term Semite as a grouping of ethnicity and culture.

The application of the linguistic term was used by 19th century anthropologists in attempting to identify human races. Of course the Aryan race was superior to the Semitic race, which in a matter of less than a decade only included Jews.

The working definition of antisemitism, adopted by the US, EU and many others is

Antisemitism is a certain perception of Jews, which may be expressed as hatred toward Jews. Rhetorical and physical manifestations of antisemitism are directed toward Jewish or non-Jewish individuals and/or their property, toward Jewish community institutions and religious facilities.

[LudwigPastorius]

38. Yes, but that term isn't used these days.

Maybe it should be because, genetically, the populations that are closest to Middle Eastern Jews are the Druze, Bedouins, and Palestinians.

But, that hardly matters when you've got a different God, and he's telling you to fold, spindle, and mutilate the unbelievers on the other side. (whichever side that may be)

[leftstreet]

5. DURec He's sounding very Adult In The Room

good on him

[GuppyGal]

7. THEY AIN'T THE ONES IGNORING HUMAN COSTS FOR FUCKS SAKE

Either way ....their attitudes gonna be hardened........GET FUCKING REAL JACK

[oldsoftie]

22. Thank you. Why dint Arab nations do something to get rid of Hamas??

It is HAMAS who are the savages here. The Palestinian civilians are under THEIR control
Why wont the Arab nations group together & DO SOMETHING about it?
They wont take in any Palestinians, so why not HELP them instead of just giving lip service?

[LiberaBlueDem]

32. How many are Hamas?

What percent of Gaza are Hamas?

I figure about 2%. Which means the 2,000 children aready dead in Gaza are dead for no good reason.

[oldsoftie]

47. And thats on Hamas. And they dont CARE. Read their words. What about my point?

WHY dont the Arab nations do or even SAY anything about getting rid of Hamas?

[LiberaBlueDem]

35. Oh yes Israel is ignoring humanity

It is losing its wide support due to that ignorance

[Iggo]

40. They ain't the ONLY ones.

There. I fixed it for you.

[GuppyGal]

49. It's not a correction it's an edit and I don't need it or want it THANKS

[TomDaisy]

60. +1

[malaise]

12. K & R

Thank you Obama

[Wingus Dingus]

17. In the Russian war against Ukraine, Ukraine had to be reminded

to treat its Russian POW's according to the Geneva conventions and avoid unnecessary brutality and inhumanity no matter how much the Russians acted like brutal and thieving animals towards them. Anger and the need for revenge is high--Obama knows that, he's calling for Israel to modulate the response to meet their long-term goals. He's not telling Israel not to defend itself from terror attacks, much as some posters here seem to wish.

[riversedge]

44. well said. Thanks.

[walkingman]

21. I think how Israel deals with Palestinian civilians in their effort to eradicate Hamas

will have a big impact on how the rest of the world views them in the future.

IMO, they should definately abide by the International rules of war which prohibits the killing of civilians.

[Beastly Boy]

27. Actually, the international rules of law are clear on that:

The Fourth Geneva Convebtion, ART. 28. — The presence of a protected person may not be used
to render certain points or areas immune from military operations.

https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/documents/atrocity-crimes/Doc.33_GC-IV-EN.pdf

Presence of civilians or not, Hamas is not immune from being targeted by Israel. The blood of these civilians is on Hamas' hands.

[treestar]

42. Goes with the Golda Meir quote

they "force us" to kill them.

For some reason, that is not striking me right. You have to take responsibility, you can claim it is justified, but it is still a choice - yeah I know you think there is no other way, no other choice, but one is still not forced to do a thing no matter how evil the others are.

It's more honest when you see the posts about "kids die in war too" so too bad. At least that's admitting it rather than claiming the bad guys forced me to do it.

Terrorists could be treated more like criminals who did criminal acts and identified and looked for and captured. If terrorists are the equivalent of armies of war, then when you retaliate and defend, you kill the civilians, at least admit that's what it is.

The US killed Japanese civilians knowingly, due to what their government did. This explains the claim "Hamas is the government." Though that is not as clear when there hasn't been an election in 15 years and the land was occupied.

[oldsoftie]

48. So why dont the Arab nations do anything about them?

They TALK about their "brothers' yet leave them under the control of Hamas. Why? Why dont they get rid of them? Leave the Israelis out of it & do it themselves. Let the WOLRD see who is really the problem.

[Beastly Boy]

57. I was addressing a previous post which made it sound like

the prohibition against killing civilians in international law is absolute. It is not, and the Geneva Conventions are the definitive authority on international law that say so. I addressed the erroneous interpretation of the law by literally citing the law, as I should have. I see not a iota of dishonesty in it.

In judging war crimes, the International Criminal Court makes one important distinction. Nearly each description of the court's definition of criminality contains the word "intentional". This is what the court deems as making a choice, and it is very different from your interpretation of the word. Likewise, there is a difference in the definition of "murder" and "killing". Murder is defined as intentional killing. And it is this distinction that tells soldiers from war criminals. It is self-evident. Having to "admit" to one or the other is a pretty bizarre proposition.

Your concerns, however, seem to disregard the law and instead address the killing of civilians in terms of ethics. And in ethics, there are no hard boundaries. Honesty and dishonesty are conditions without a universal definition. When you compare ethics to law, it is likely that one or the other will not strike you right. One is a set of universal standards for judgement, and the other is a set of individual standards for judgement. One is designed to be applicable to all, and the other is designed to be challenged at will.

War is by definition unethical. It calls for brutality, homicide and destruction. Sure you can argue that you always have a choice. You can choose to be killed rather than kill, you can choose to forgive your enemy for raping the corpse of a woman he just killed, or, since you are familiar with the Golda Meir quote, you can even forgive your enemy for making them kill their children. But war has yet to be outlawed. Situations where "the bad guy forces me to do it" are the most common decision making events a combatant faces on the battlefield, and it includes situations where the bad guy hides behind children as he shoots at you. I doubt very much that a significant number of these combattants considers themselves to be dishonest.

I have heard of many people who, when forced into making judgements under fire, quickly change their minds about the judgements they previously held. Judging others is easy. Applying the same standards to yourself when your life is in danger is hard.

[tritsofme]

23. Israel policy was perhaps the only thoughtful disagreement I had with President Obama.

I have been incredibly impressed with President Biden, a definite upgrade in my book.

[WarGamer]

24. So proud... best POTUS of my lifetime.

We truly didn't deserve him.

[Tomconroy]

28. I don't know how the fine sentiments translate into

A practical plan to eliminate the terrorist threat to Israel. Needs to add some details.

[WarGamer]

30. A practical plan would be to pick off Hamas folks for the next 10 years...

And probably not raze Gaza to the ground.

[GuppyGal]

52. Right ...all their infrastructure should remain in place and then Israel is supposed to whack a mole them

for decades to come. ??????

[WarGamer]

53. The choice belongs to Israel...

They can surely flatten Gaza and kill more civilians.

It's up to Israel.

[SouthernDem4ever]

61. Which is what has been going on all along

I wish there was a good option to find the terrorists. We kind of have the problem in the US with our own domestic terrorists too - the one's hiding behind free speech.

[JustTooMuch]

33. I agree

I agree with President Obama. As always is says what needs to be said eloquently.

[Deuxcents]

56. Welcome to the DU

Came in on a very passionate issue. I, too, agree with Obama’s assessment on this issue.

[KS Toronado]

58. Welcome to DU

[tman]

34. Seems like an echoing of the Biden policy. Or the policy The Biden admin are now more forcefully expressing.

For the headline only readers.

[AntivaxHunters]

36. Thanks Obama!

😂😂😂 I had to

[Big Blue Marble]

37. That is exactly my reaction. N/T

[Abolishinist]

46. Misleading headline in the WAPO

Headline: Israeli military strategy ignoring human costs will 'backfire'

What Obama wrote: "any Israeli military strategy that ignores the human costs could ultimately backfire,”

Big difference, they should be ashamed for their sloppiness.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

50. The far left and the far right are twisting his words.

He said Israel has every right to respond but they need to be clear in their objectives and not respond in a way that makes things worse.

[TomDaisy]

54. K&R

[onecaliberal]

62. One can hope. It hasn't yet. They have been allowed to push the Palestinians into a corner and basically imprisoned

them all, since now they can't even leave the country to save their lives. I think there is a name for that.....