On Barbarians

[malaise]

Like those lynching parties in the South - like the slaughter at Wounded Knee, like the Morant Bay atrocities here. Go study colonialism, Atlantic slavery and the treatment of indigenous people everywhere.
Please get real Mika and the Atlantic and spare me your sanctimonious BS.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

1. Link to article?

[malaise]

2. Here

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2023/10/barbarism-israel-gaza-hamas-russia-war/675613/

[Bernardo de La Paz]

3. Thanks. I get your point now. Rec'd. . . . nt

[malaise]

4. You'd think these people were the aggressors

Americans have fought barbarians in Syria, Iraq, and Afghanistan. Ukrainians have been fighting them for years, and particularly since February 24, 2022. Sometimes, as in Rwanda, we merely note them with embarrassment and eyes averted. Other times, as during the massacre at Srebrenica committed by Serbian forces, we flinch, and act belatedly and inadequately. We express pity for the dead, but often fail to fight for the living.
———-
Seriously this is one sick article.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

6. There have been, and are, barbarians within, not just at the gates. . . . nt

[malaise]

8. + 1,000 n/t

[leftyladyfrommo]

5. Humans have been violent for thousands

of years. Barbarism may be in our genes.

That doesn't mean we can't overcome it.

[malaise]

7. On that we agree

but some folks need to stop pretending that thry’re the civilized versus the barbarians when their atrocities are no different and often worse than those of others.

Misinformation and lies about atrocities have been spread for millenia .

[mopinko]

9. it is in our genes but

it’s actually possible to suppress it. evolutionary psychology posits that which genes r expressed is determined in the womb, and influenced by stress hormones in the mother.
constant stress tells the fetus to get ready for a hostile world. low stress let’s the fetus bloom into the best a human can b.

and ya know, science has known this for decades, but we dont care. if we took good care of every pregnant person, fed them, protected them from domestic abuse, gave them medical care, we’d have peace in a generation. we’d have the next wave of hippies.
and we cant even see the dollars and cents of it. i’ve often said the state of illinois wd b money ahead if a wic card bought a steak dinner, cooked by someone else, eaten w their feet up, for as many nights as needed. keep 1 baby out of the nicu, 1 kid out of special ed, 1 kid out of prison, it pays for itself.
sorta makes me wish for a cult of the madonna to arise.

[PatrickforB]

10. I can definitely see why that article pissed you off. No doubt.

I'm a big believer in karmic law - the great law of cause and effect. What you sow, so shall you reap and all that.

The West has a lot to answer for. The conquistadores, the inquisition, the crusades, so-called manifest destiny, slavery, oppressive capitalism.

Viscerally I think we know that, and it scares the living bejeezus out of us. So, here in America at least, we have some white women (Moms for Liberty or whatever) who are committed to clearing books out of libraries that might make white kids uncomfortable.

Problem is, trying to rewrite history doesn't change anything. Only confronting the evils we have done and atoning through a reorganization of ourselves around human need instead of human greed will we actually grow up as a species.

That involves forgiveness of both others and self, and the creation of an economic organization that supports life on the planet.

But then, I'm all about economic justice, because by itself social justice cannot get much done. This is why the left gets cut down so much for identity politics and also why DEI is now a multi billion dollar 'industry.' It has been co-opted by Wall Street. Because elevating a more diverse group of people into lucrative positions in the professional managerial class doesn't do much for poor working people, whatever group they might be in, does little for the environment and all other life

The imperative seems clear. Impose economic, social AND environmental justice policies.

So...you think we will be wise enough as a species to save this world by doing that?



Nope. I don't either...

[malaise]

11. Great post

Rec

[PatrickforB]

16. Thanks! Hey, I have a book to recommend to you. I learned as much from this as I did from

Howard Zinn's People's History of the United States.

The book is by a guy named Rhyd Wildermuth. Now, he is a gay white male who has been part of the radical American left since the 90s, and he got his chops during the Seattle WTO demonstrations in '99. Originally, he's from Appalachian Ohio, and has been part of the anarchist/Marxist movement from way back when.

OK, so his book is totally brilliant and gives an incisive explanation of why the American left has accomplished driddle squat these last 50 years or so.

It's called "Here Be Monsters: How to Fight Capitalism Instead of Each Other."

When I got done with this book, I knew much more about the evolution of social, economic, and environmental justice movements as they've evolved in this century. I highly recommend it.

If you are a bit older, like me, you might roll your eyes a bit at the first couple of chapters but stick with it because Wildermuth has gone full circle from economic justice to social justice (intersectional oppression theories, identity politics) and back to economic justice.

He does note that Goldman Sachs and corporate capitalists in general have co-opted the DEI movement because social justice by itself does nothing to prevent our shareholder primacy system from continuing to oppress the poor, and certainly nothing much for the environment. One of the things I found interesting in the book was his discussion of his own moral dilemma because of the radical left's penchant for never criticizing tactics. I have been seeing this in the statements of Tlaib and Omar, as well as some of the student demonstrations in favor of Hamas. What this looks like on the ground is that Hamas is a radical anarchist group. It wants to destroy Israel and kill all the Jews, essentially and engaged in the horrible terror attacks against Israel.

But, instead of looking at the actual issue of systemic economic oppression of the Palestinian people, they instead celebrated Hamas while remaining silent on its tactics. That whole thing is pretty sad, when you see how it manifests with otherwise decent people demonstrating in favor of a terrorist organization instead of getting to the real root cause of the violence which was the slow-burn enforced poverty of the people in the Gaza enclosure.

See what you think! You may well disagree, but the book is well worth reading because it forced me to really think some things through. Though I've been squarely in the economic and environmental justice camp since the late 90s.

[malaise]

17. Will check that one out

I have Zinn’s book - a classic

[stuck in the middle]

12. A La Mina No Voy (2014) - Traditional Colombian Folksong

A portrait of Afro-Colombian life, 'A La Mina No Voy' (I am not going to the mine), is a Colombian folksong that was sung by slaves resisting work in the mines.

arrangement and violin, Aron Frank
voice, Teófilo Potes (Buenaventura, Colombia)

( voice taken from 'Afro-Hispanic Music from Western Colombia and Ecuador' // recorded and edited by Norman E. Whitten, Jr. // Folkway Records, Album No. FE4376, ©1967. )
_____________________________________________________

Manque (aunque) mi amo me mate/ Although my master would kill me
A la mina no voy/ I am not going to the mine

No quiero morir/ I don't want to die
De un canalón/ In the waterway (of gold placering)
A la mina no voy/ I am not going to the mine

Mi amo pegado, yo lo digo/ My master punishes, I say it
Con justícia y con grador/ With justice and with willingness
A la mina no voy/ I am not going to the mine

Que a lo' hombres no 'e venden/ Don't sell the men
Porque tienen corazón/ Because they have courage
A la mina no voy/ I am not going to the mine

Manque (aunque) mi amo me mate/ Although my master would kill me
A la mina no voy/ I am not going to the mine

[malaise]

13. Beautiful, haunting and oh so true

We’re not the barbarians

Rec

[Act_of_Reparation]

14. "Barbarian" is itself a term drenched in imperialism.

I'm not criticizing its use here... just making an interesting observation because as a history nerd I simply can't help myself.

In Ancient Greek, the word "barbaros" was an antonym of the word "polites" ("citizen" ), and was applied to non-Greeks to emphasize their otherness. The Romans later adopted the term, using it refer to "uncivilized" peoples... which, by Augustus' time, was everyone except Romans and Greeks.

It's similar to how Europeans and their Colonial descendants applied to the term "savage" to the indigenous peoples of the lands they colonized.

[malaise]

15. Excellent post

Rec