Do we miss McCarthy yet?

[Kaleva]

Many threads about the new speaker and I'm wondering if people think Dems in the House, at least a few, should have voted to keep McCarthy as Speaker?

[hlthe2b]

1. McCarthy? Hell no. Gingrich? Hell no. Paul Ryan? No. Boehner? nah...

But, right now, Boehner is the only one who has had a sane thing to say. (Maybe all that Cabernet has opened up some cerebral arteries)...

[Kaleva]

3. I don't know if it really matters which R is Speaker

[AZSkiffyGeek]

5. I think there might be a few that would've been better...

But they were voted out for the crazies last year.
I don't understand the hair-on-fire over this latest idiot. It's not like any other ones would be working towards Biden's agenda. And it's not like anything crazy they try will get through the Senate or past Biden's veto pen.

[Kaleva]

9. I agree

[W_HAMILTON]

20. You're right -- and you just answered your own question you posed with your original post.

[FrankBooth]

2. Nope

Anything MAGA Mike is going to do Kevin would have done as well. This is a false dichotomy.

[Kaleva]

6. Some members may think Johnson will be worse

Because of his outspoken views about religion.

So it isn't a false dichotomy.

[FrankBooth]

8. Yes it is

The whole 'the Dems should have done something' is bullshit and false. The only difference between Kev and Mike is style, not substance.

[Kaleva]

11. Others here may disagree with you

That Johnson's religious fanaticism makes him worse.

Your opinion is that there isn't a difference between the two. A valid view but not one everyone else here may have .

[FrankBooth]

19. Sure, Ok, it's the Democrat's fault

Got it.

[Disaffected]

38. Now, there's a non-sequitur for you. nt

[FrankBooth]

39. Thank you for your concern

NM

[Kaleva]

64. Have any of the members who posted OPs about Johnson...

blamed Democrats in the House for him becoming Speaker?

If so, could you provide a link to the post as I haven't seen one?

I myself don't think it matters much which R is Speaker and have said so in this thread

[iluvtennis]

4. Dems didn't take him out of his seat - his GOP rethugs did. n/t

[Kaleva]

7. Dems could have helped him keep his seat

[iluvtennis]

13. The GOPers had/have the majority. If all 220 of them voted for McCarthy, he'd still be in

place. The GOPers removed him. Dems have no obligation to help McCarthy.

[Kaleva]

18. You are arguing about something I didn't ask.

While Dems weren't under any obligation to help, some here may think that , Ds , at least enough, in Congress should have voted for McCarthy to keep him as Speaker instead of the House ending up with a religious fanatatic as Speaker.

[LuvLoogie]

47. It's the same bigotry and fascism shrouded in piety

"moderates" let the goon GOPs take the flack for the racist despotism running throughout their caucus.

McCarthy would enact the same shit these guys will.

"The bipartisan speaker guts the government."

We have to stop being afraid of what these fuck heads might do. Take whatever they got. Then kick them in the groin and stomp on their fucking heads - politically, socially, mentally, and emotionally.

Fuck these punks, fuck our 401Ks, and fuck Christmas.

[Hekate]

54. Not just no, but hell no

[Shrek]

16. 208 Democrats and 8 Republicans

It was a bipartisan effort but clearly dominated by Democrats.

[W_HAMILTON]

23. Democrats voted just like they have in every vote for Speaker.

And yet we don't have a Democratic Speaker of the House.

This is all the fault of the Republicans -- period.

You don't have to bend over backwards to blame Democrats for the Republicans' mess.

[Shrek]

25. It wasn't a vote for Speaker

It was a vote to remove the current Speaker.

[W_HAMILTON]

29. A distinction without a difference.

Democrats should not be expected to support a Republican for Speaker -- especially one that rebuffed our repeated attempts to govern in a more bipartisan manner.

Stop blaming Democrats for Republican disasters.

[Shrek]

44. Actually I'm not blaming anyone

Voting to vacate the Speaker's chair is a politically defensible choice, especially if it's held by a member of the opposition.

I'm just objecting to the notion that somehow these 8 Republicans were able to pull it off despite mammoth opposition from their own party. The Democrats got rid of McCarthy and more power to them (I'm sure Jeffries gamed out the possible outcomes and decided this was the best plan), but don't pretend they were just bystanders. They got exactly what they voted for.

[W_HAMILTON]

48. The Republicans did pull it off all on their own.

McCarthy was the one that allowed a single member to bring forth a vote to vacate the Speaker's chair as part of his devil's bargain with MAGA extremists to even win that position to begin with.

And eight Republicans defecting from supporting their own Speaker is more than enough for their Speaker to lose their Speakership when they only have a majority of about four or five seats to begin with.

Once again, this is a problem all of the Republicans own doing.

[Shrek]

50. Nothing you're saying is wrong and it still doesn't change the math

There was a binary choice placed before the House: McCarthy or Not-McCarthy?

It was within the power of the Democratic Party to effect its preferred outcome.

The outcome was Not-McCarthy. That's all I'm saying.

[Hekate]

55. The Repubs wrote the rule about removal: ONE congressman may call the vote

Did a Democrat do that?

Waiting
Waiting

NO Dem did that. However, NO Dem voted for McCarthy or Jordan or any of that bunch in the first place.

Hold the course. Stick to Democratic Party and Constitutional principals. Do not believe a word the other side says and do nothing on a handshake.

Then, if and when they want to “compromise” make sure it is a coalition government and that everything is in writing. And even then, Dems need to watch each other’s backs.

For over a generation, the goal of the GOP has been to gut the federal government. They have the SCOTUS, the House, and very close to the Senate. Why on Earth would the Democrats help them finish the job?

[multigraincracker]

10. Let's give him a chance...

He might be the one to turn the House dark blue.

[Kaleva]

12. If that happens, we could say Johnson was better the McCarthy

[Solly Mack]

14. Let's put it this way. Say I had Gonorrhea, but got rid of it. Then I got syphilis.

Do I miss Gonorrhea?

No.

Am I making bad choices?

Definitely.

[Hekate]

56. Definitely

[marble falls]

15. Still not sure why we didn't save him at least once. He was a treacherous little tweek, though ...

... but certainly no worse than what's followed.

[W_HAMILTON]

26. Because he didn't want to be saved.

Rather than turn to Democrats and govern in a more bipartisan manner on behalf of the country, McCarthy chose to align with the MAGA extremists that ended up ousting him anyway.

Some around here need to stop blaming Democrats for everything.

Republicans have agency. This is their problem and their fault. Democrats gave McCarthy an out -- he chose not to accept it. That's on him -- not Democrats.

[W_HAMILTON]

17. Nope.

Why do you put the blame on Democrats rather than on Republicans, where it belongs?

When McCarthy chose to not work with Democrats for the good of the country -- and save his own job in the process -- he sealed his fate.

That was his decision and his fault -- not Democrats'.

[Aepps22]

30. Exactly

I am very proud of the leadership on our side. Kev didn't want to bargain with our side which was his choice. If our side helped that guy for free and the government still shutdown many of the same people saying we should've saved him would be furious for our side "rolling over". Hopefully people recognize that the difference between Kev and Johnson is the difference between trash and garbage. When it comes down to it you don't want either.

[W_HAMILTON]

33. Yep. If some on our side want to force us into expressing regret...

...I regret that McCarthy did not do what was right and act on behalf of the country and reject MAGA extremism and instead work with Democrats to govern in a responsible and bipartisan manner that would have been supported by a majority of Americans.

[tenderfoot]

21. I don't see much difference

they're both awful.

[Emile]

22. I don't advocate for any Democrat voting for Republicans.

[gratuitous]

24. One more time for the folks in the back

The minority party has NEVER (as in never-ever-ever) voted in favor of the majority party's candidate for Speaker. So, the answer to the question in your post has been, will continue to be, and forever in the future is "no."

[Shrek]

27. There was no candidate from either party

The vote was whether or not to vacate the office of Speaker.

[W_HAMILTON]

36. Democrats shouldn't be expected to support a Republican -- especially one that rebuffed their efforts at bipartisanship.

It's okay, you can blame McCarthy and Republicans for their mess.

[gratuitous]

37. Let me uncover my crystal ball

Gaetz picks up the bomb that McCarthy left sitting on his desk to get to be Speaker and makes his motion to vacate. Democrats (or at least enough to negate the votes of the Republican Spoiled Children Caucus) refuse to play along and cross the aisle to save McCarthy from his own short-sighted recklessness. What happens then, O crystal ball?

Hmmm, quite murky, I call on the spirits of Sam Rayburn and Tip O'Neill, aid us in our search! Ah yes, it's becoming clearer. On one path, McCarthy wipes his brow over his close shave and resumes his feckless ways. On the other path, Gaetz throws a three-day temper tantrum. Wait; the paths then converge, and Gaetz files another motion to vacate. Democrats realize, too late, that they've been suckered into supporting an historically weak Speaker of the House, and they can either keep voting to save McCarthy from his own stupidity, or they leave the Republicans to fix their own problem.

Because this was never anything but a purely Republican crisis, ginned up by a bunch of characters who can't be trusted with the power they have.

[PortTack]

28. Mccarthy was willing to fund Ukraine this guy isn't. The rest doesn't matter

[FrankBooth]

31. That's very much up for debate

Kevin knew he wasn't going to be able to fund Ukraine and keep his speakership. So, no, he wouldn't have IMO.

[Aepps22]

34. Is that true?

If he were willing to fund Ukraine why did he specifically carve that funding out of the clean CR? There were probably enough Republicans on their side plus our side to get it done with the CR. He is a known liar and says whatever he needs to in order to survive. I don't believe he would keep his word on Ukraine funding for a second.

[W_HAMILTON]

35. Uhh, what?

McCarthy was the Speaker when the last continuing resolution passed, which did NOT include funding for Ukraine.

I don't know why so many around here are bending over backwards to defend McCarthy and blame Democrats for the Republicans' fuck-up. McCarthy could have done what you suggest, and worked with Democrats in a bipartisan manner to ensure Ukraine funding, maintain his Speakership, etc.

He chose not to.

We didn't make that decision -- he did.

Blame him.

Stop blaming Democrats for Republicans making the same sort of terrible, democracy-destroying, anti-American decisions they've been making for years.

[Silent Type]

32. We should. Not that McCarthy was worth a dang, but he was better than this A-hold.

[Xavier Breath]

40. Too soon to ask.

Johnson just got the gavel. Wait until after the government's been shut down for months, the economy's been wrecked in an election year, Ukraine has effectively lost half its world funding and Joe's been impeached three times. Then ask your question.

[FrankBooth]

41. If only the Democrats had the spine and sense to keep Kevin McCarthy as speaker...

None of these awful things would have happened! The speaker mess is the Democrat's fault, and Hakeem Jeffries doesn't know what he's doing. Did I get that right?

[Xavier Breath]

42. Just some thoughts on what the next 14+ months might hold.

There's a reality to how, if any of that does come to pass, it might have been avoided. But, just an opinion, one of many here.

You have a good day, now

[FrankBooth]

43. Same to you

NM

[Torchlight]

45. Same clowns, different makeup

Six of one, half a dozen of the other.

[Happy Hoosier]

46. Nope. Let these MAGAt assholes hang themselves....

We will drape this nut around their necks like an anchor.

[lame54]

49. McCarthy was useless and this guy will be too

[CrispyQ]

51. No.

Republican house members are different levels of vileness but they all serve Trump, some cuz they want to & others cuz they're afraid not to.

[Bird Lady]

52. I'm going to do as Rachel says

Watch what he does, not what he says.
I can't spend all my days watching the maga's attempt to destroy my country.
If I have to I will either leave the country or put a bullet in my head.
ENOUGH is ENOUGH

[Hekate]

53. I miss President Eisenhower & a sane Republican Party, but those days are gone...

We need to deal with what we have now, which is a GOP that is no longer a political party but instead is an authoritarian movement — as Stuart Stevens said the other day on Deadline White House.

[GuppyGal]

57. This is working out great! Maga Mike et al can be directly tied with Dump....it's gonna be a blood bath

[Xoan]

58. I doubt Johnson will last 3 scarammuccis.

[MorbidButterflyTat]

59. Nope.

Republican/MAGAt messes are NOT the responsibility of Democrats!

And I kinda resent the implication that now we Dems are scaredy cats who rue the day we let McCarthy go because the big, bad bible thumping bigot is threatening us with the 17th century.

Why the media is treating this psycho like a rock star does mystify me.

He and his toxic anti-democratic agenda can go fuck themselves.

[liberal_mama]

60. I would prefer McCarthy to this Christo-Fascist, Johnson, but I don't have a say.

Johnson is absolutely terrifying.

[stuck in the middle]

61. No. (nt)

[edisdead]

62. So let's play this out

First of all let’s not pretend that McCarthy was the cats meow as far as doing good for the country…..

So we rescue McCarthy even though that shit hasn’t ever been done before. Then McCarthy goes on to lead the republicans in doing shitty shit. Albeit possibly less shitty than Johnson may do but McCarthy doing shitty shit nonetheless….

Then the democrats get their teeth bashed in every day for putting/keeping McCarthy in power. That shit plays in the media over and over. The progressive wing shit talks the party even more….. But here’s the kicker. They were going to do that anyway.

[Aepps22]

63. Fundraising

Kev was a great fundraiser for them. Having a guy that isn't good at it is helpful.