Remember The IDF Told Civilians To Go South To Be Safe?

[T_A]

THEY LIED:


* Why Is Israel Attacking South Gaza After Telling People To Go There?

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/why-is-israel-attacking-south-gaza-after-telling-people-go-there-2023-10-25/


* Palestinians Flee South in Gaza But Cannot Escape Bombs

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/21/the-strikes-are-everywhere-palestinians-flee-south-in-gaza-but-cannot-escape-bombs


* Israel Intensifying Bombing of South Gaza

https://news.sky.com/story/gaza-war-satellite-data-shows-israel-intensifying-bombing-of-south-12993277

[brush]

1. Not good. What's up with that?

[yardwork]

2. Maybe Hamas should give back the Israeli hostages.

If any of them are still alive. So the Israeli families can bury their children.

[T_A]

5. Which Has What To Do

with the IDF telling civilians to go South and they would be safe, and then bombing them in the South?

[yardwork]

6. Israel is at war. War sucks, people die.

Palestine could end this war right now.

[T_A]

10. "Israel is at war"

Gee, I wasn't aware that the Palestinian people had F-16s, M1 Abrams tanks, and Apache combat choppers.

[Torchlight]

13. Shani Nicole Louk didn't require an Apache helicopter to die in war.

Restricting the definition of a word to only that which is convenient is a certain sign of bad-faith arguments.

[T_A]

15. Then Don't Do It

[AloeVera]

61. Thousands of others have died that way though.

I don't understand why their deaths hardly register with some.

It's almost as if... fill in the blank.

And yes it does matter that one side has the best military money can buy and uses it to kill defenseless civilians.

[yardwork]

86. It's almost as if some people have forgotten the Holocaust.

[AloeVera]

93. Hardly.

One people's suffering should not be used to deflect from the other people's suffering going on for decades now.

Unless you don't think the two peoples are of equal value.

[yardwork]

94. Both Israelis and Palestinians have been suffering "for decades now."

I believe that all human suffering matters.

[niyad]

76. Do not conflate Palestine and hamas.

[yardwork]

83. I'd been careful not to do that but I'm getting annoyed with the antisemitism.

Many people are ignoring the fact that Israeli civilians were tortured and murdered in a terrorist attack, and most hostages - some of them grievously wounded - have not been returned. Hamas is yhe "government" of Palestine. The distinction is murky. What's clear is that they precipitated a war that they knew would claim civilians. It seems to be part of the plan. I am sorry for the Palestinian people. I'm not blaming them. But their government is bringing this on their people, as part of a seemingly well-organized PR blitz.

[uponit7771]

80. Which means they can kill everything moving? tia

[yardwork]

84. It's not up to me, or you.

Nothing I say or do will change the Israeli government's response to a terrorist attack that killed a proportion of their people equivalent to 48,000 Americans. Jewish people have been attacked and murdered for a long time. They are retaliating and there's not a lot we can do about it.

Hamas knew this would happen. It was planned, as was this global internet antisemitic campaign. One small thing I can do is push back on the misinformation and antisemitism.

[uponit7771]

97. Can't change Israel's response but sure can change ours

[EX500rider]

3. They are going to hit Hamas targets where ever they pop up

But the south is much safer then the north, but the IDF can't give Hamas a "can't touch me" area to launch rockets from.


Which area looks safer to you?
Satellite analysis shows damaged buildings and impact craters in Gaza, Oct. 8–22

https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/10/world/map-israel-hamas-war-dg

[T_A]

4. Then Why Did The IDF LIE?

They not only made official announcements that civilians would be safe if they went South, but they dropped leaflets that stated they would be safe if they went South.

[yardwork]

7. Incorrect. Nobody's safety is guaranteed in a war zone.

This isn't a video game.

[T_A]

14. Then

the IDF shouldn't have lied and claimed civilians would be safe in the South.

[yardwork]

17. Where did they say that?

[T_A]

24. The Timeline

Israel delivered a copy of the order to the U.N. that evacuation of 1.1 million people from northern part of Gaza on October 13.

Sometime after that the IDF released a video of an IDF spokesperson stating civilians needed to evacuate the North and go South where they would be safe.

Sometime after that the IDF dropped leaflets with the same message.

[yardwork]

28. What were the exact words?

[T_A]

31. Are Your Fingers Broke?

Look it up yourself if you want that level of detail.

[Disaffected]

45. You should not be the one eyerolling.

Your request is not at all reasonable. There is a myriad of videos, news releases and articles about the conflict and searching through that would be a waste of time especially if you seem yourself to know the source of the claim.

Anyhow, I did attempt to find such as source and was not successful. I have also not heard such a statement from the IDF or anywhere else.

IOWs, you made the claim and it is up to you to show it. It is not up to others to disprove it.

[T_A]

50. I'm Afraid You're Very Very Confused

You asked:

Where did they say that?

I not only answered your question, I provided you with the narrow window of days when it occurred.

Then you decide you want even finer details.

There is a myriad of videos, news releases and articles about the conflict and searching through that would be a waste of time...

SO, you don't want to do that, but you want ME to do that for YOU.

Sorry, I don't jump through hoops.


Additionally:

Leila Molana-Allen reporting from Tel Aviv for the PBS Newshour:

People were told they have to move down to the south of Gaza. That's where they will be safe.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/humanitarian-crisis-in-gaza-worsens-ahead-of-anticipated-israeli-invasion-against-hamas

[Disaffected]

62. I guess it's my turn.

[questionseverything]

53. So if they wouldn't be safe, what was the point in being ordered to move?

[Disaffected]

64. Maybe so they would be safer?

There is a v big difference between "safe" and "safer".

Or maybe so they would be in less danger - whatever, they are certainly not "safe" in S Gaza.

[T_A]

74. Some Believe

the Likud intends to declare the Northern half of Gaza an occupied No-Go DMZ.

[yardwork]

48. I did look it up and see no evidence that it's true.

You posted an OP with an accusation. It's up to you to provide evidence that the accusation is true.

[T_A]

73. I Did

[yardwork]

89. Where?

You are not very good at this.

[Dorian Gray]

78. You're the one making a claim

people are asking for proof of the claim you are making. If the claim is false, there will be no proof. If the claim is true... which is your position... then providing proof will be easy.

[T_A]

90. Already Provided

[AZSkiffyGeek]

40. Don't expect an answer - they don't provide context

Usually because their source is a radio broadcast and they have no means of verifying anything on the radio.

[EX500rider]

8. Look at the map it is safer than the North

No part of Gaza is going to be 100% safe during the war they can't give Hamas an area where they are safe they will just launch all the Rockets from there

[T_A]

11. Well

A) The map is out-of-date.

B) Bombing doesn't need to collapse a building or make a crater to kill people.

[EX500rider]

20. If you haven't noticed they're invading the north part of Gaza

So the people going south is much safer for them

[Tomconroy]

9. The IDF told the truth as anyone can see

Who looks at the CNN map. It is Hamas who encourages civilians to stay in the north.

[T_A]

12. Hamas Stated The IDF Was Lying

Guess what?

[yardwork]

18. You believe Hamas?

Interesting.

[T_A]

32. NO

The IDF was proven to have lied.

[The_Casual_Observer]

44. The tactic of asking endless questions has a name.

[AZSkiffyGeek]

52. That's been obvious for a few weeks...

[Cha]

58. REC.. TY

[uponit7771]

82. Hmmm, called "sealioning"? I also think IDF can be more surgical

[Igel]

47. But no safety is absolute.

"Go south, you'll be safe."

No more car accidents, falls that break bones, no more fights or knife cuts.

Safe is safe?

No, it's relative.

Making the minimum for other to be perfection is gotcha.

Take Hamas. They killed colonizers, per Westerners; they killed Jews, per Hamas. How about the Thai that was basically beheaded by hoe? He was a European Jewish colonizer? No, he was Thai.

[yardwork]

49. Where is the proof?

[Dorian Gray]

79. "proven"

not really.

[Tomconroy]

19. You have looked at the CNN map, haven't you?

Where would you rather be? North or south?

[AntivaxHunters]

16. I'm not surprised

The IDF lies a lot.
And has for a very long time.

[EX500rider]

21. You keep posting that without showing where it came from

And accused of lying is not the same as having been proved to be lying

[AZSkiffyGeek]

37. When your best example is an unattributed article from 20 years ago...

Especially without the context of a terrorist attack from Hamas the day before the strikes....

[lapucelle]

66. It's a weird variation of the gish gallop. N/T

[yardwork]

88. Yes. It's part of a global PR campaign that launched the same time Hamas attacked.

It's deliberate and planned. The intent is to dehumanize Jews and turn people against Israel.

[Just_Vote_Dem]

95. And it helps Pootie a great deal when he's losing to Ukraine

Splitting us Dems bigtime

[lapucelle]

96. Deliberate...planned...and obvious.

[Tomconroy]

22. That's the best example of an IDF lie you could find?

LOL

[T_A]

27. You Want More?

The IDF lied about no airstrikes against the Rafah Crossing.

The IDF lied about dropping White Phosphorous in civilian areas.

The IDF lied about no airstrikes against civilian convoys fleeing South of Gaza City.

The IDF lied about turning the water back on for Southern Gaza.

The IDF lied about civilians being safe if they moved South.

That's just a partial list.

[Tomconroy]

34. There is no evidence to support any of those claims

You just unquestioningly take the word of Hamas.

[T_A]

38. FALSE

[Cha]

59. NOT FALSE

[EX500rider]

41. here;

The IDF lied about no airstrikes against the Rafah Crossing.
They never bombed the crossing, they have hit Hamas targets in the area, most likey tunnels

The IDF lied about dropping White Phosphorous in civilian areas.

They have not, the only cases reported were on some boats and on some farmland is all I have seen

The IDF lied about no airstrikes against civilian convoys fleeing South of Gaza City.

Again, that has not been proved, could be more off course crappy Hamas/Islamic Jihad rockets or Hamas leaders headed south for safety

The IDF lied about turning the water back on for Southern Gaza.

They did turn it on. Some Gazan pumping stations are out of fuel or electricity but water should be available

The IDF lied about civilians being safe if they moved South.

Safer, no area is going to be 100% safe with Hamas around

[T_A]

51. No Cigar

The IDF lied about no airstrikes against the Rafah Crossing.
They never bombed the crossing, they have hit Hamas targets in the area, most likey tunnels

FALSE.

Multiple airstrikes have been reported around the Rafah Crossing since the war started, including one on Tuesday

https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/17/middleeast/rafah-border-crossing-gaza-israel-explained-intl/index.html

Egypt is preparing for the possible opening of the Rafah border crossing after it was hit at least four times by Israeli airstrikes. The Rafah crossing was shut on Oct. 10 after it was hit by Israeli warplanes on the Palestinian side three times on Oct. 9 and 10.

https://abcnews.go.com/International/rafah-crossing-people-aid-stuck-egypt-border-gaza/story?id=104016070

~

The IDF lied about dropping White Phosphorous in civilian areas.

They have not, the only cases reported were on some boats and on some farmland is all I have seen

FALSE.

Human Rights Watch has MULTIPLE VIDEOS of the IDF dropping White Phosphorous in civilian areas, which is yet another War Crime.

~

The IDF lied about no airstrikes against civilian convoys fleeing South of Gaza City.

Again, that has not been proved, could be more off course crappy Hamas/Islamic Jihad rockets or Hamas leaders headed south for safety

FALSE.

Leila Molana-Allen reporting from Tel Aviv for the PBS Newshour:

People were told they have to move down to the south of Gaza. That's where they will be safe. Even as they started to move a couple of days ago, convoys were hit by airstrikes on the road as families tried to flee.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/humanitarian-crisis-in-gaza-worsens-ahead-of-anticipated-israeli-invasion-against-hamas

~

The IDF lied about turning the water back on for Southern Gaza.

They did turn it on. Some Gazan pumping stations are out of fuel or electricity but water should be available

FALSE.

Without fuel for the generators, there is no electricity, without electricity, no water is pumped, and the IDF refuses to allow fuel into Gaza. Therefore, no water.

~

The IDF lied about civilians being safe if they moved South.

Safer, no area is going to be 100% safe with Hamas around

FALSE.

Leila Molana-Allen reporting from Tel Aviv for the PBS Newshour:

People were told they have to move down to the south of Gaza. That's where they will be safe.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/humanitarian-crisis-in-gaza-worsens-ahead-of-anticipated-israeli-invasion-against-hamas

[EX500rider]

56. Lets start with your 1st one

Find me one picture of the "bombed crossing"
There aren't any because it has not happened.
The IDF has bombed in the area hitting Hamas targets but the crossing has never been hit


Eygpt used that as a excuse but it was not true or there would be tons of pics and vid of the "bombed crossing"

[AloeVera]

63. Don't believe your lying eyes.

Video shows it was close enough to create fear and panic in those waiting at the gates of the crossing. Mission Accomplished as someone infamous once said.
https://news.sky.com/video/israel-strikes-near-rafah-border-crossing-with-egypt-after-telling-gazans-to-flee-through-it-12981936

[EX500rider]

65. Key word "near"

As I said the crossing was never bombed

[AloeVera]

69. I never said "near". The bombing occurred at the crossing.

The crossing is not just the road, as you know.
It's a complex with parking lots and buildings.

That looks like a pretty big/close explosion immediately behind the people waiting at the gates.
But go ahead with your word games. I'm not playing anymore.

[EX500rider]

70. 500lb bombs do look very close even when they go off a 1/2 mile away

If there was any damage to the crossing there would be tons of pictures.

[T_A]

75. Numerous Media Outlets

have reported that the Rafah Crossing was repeatedly hit by IDF airstrikes.

You're stuck in unreality.

[EX500rider]

85. Numerous media Outlets reported Israel hit the Anglian hospital

Turned out to be wrong just like this.
If they had really hit it they'd have had tons of video and pictures of it, craters and all that

[T_A]

91. Only In Your Imagination

[EX500rider]

92. Gotcha there are no photos of an event that didn't happen so you can't produce them

[Cha]

60. That Looks like GD HAMAS PROPAGANDA.

Last edited Mon Oct 30, 2023, 09:51 PM - Edit history (1)

[maxsolomon]

23. SAFER, not 100% safe.

Israel can't make a guarantee.

[T_A]

25. Then The IDF Shouldn't Have Lied

[maxsolomon]

30. "Safer" is in the 1st paragraph of your 1st link.

Israel has told civilians in the northern Gaza Strip, including residents of Gaza City, to move to the south of the enclave, saying it will be safer there as the military attacks Hamas following its Oct. 7 cross-border assault.

[xmas74]

26. No one is guaranteed 100% safety in an act of war.

Hell, I can't guarantee 100% crossing the street in my small town. How can safety be guaranteed during war?

[T_A]

29. Already

Asked and answered.

[xmas74]

36. So I shouldn't respond?

You wouldn't have people asking if you hadn't made a post on a public forum.

[T_A]

39. ????

????

[GuppyGal]

67. I for one am glad you responded as the point needs to be driven home again and again and again and

again.

[xmas74]

68. OP seems to think we should just accept their opinion

As fact and only respond in agreement.

No matter what you do in this world you cannot be guaranteed 100% safe. In a war zone this is only amplified.

[Dorian Gray]

81. YES

[LexVegas]

33. Hamas heeded the call to move south. nt

[Tomconroy]

35. They moved all the way to Qatar.

[EX500rider]

42. I doubt that is going to save them this time, Mossad will reach out & say Hello at some point

[The_Casual_Observer]

43. Apparently they must know where the hostages are

Since they are bombing the hell out of everywhere else.

[questionseverything]

54. That's what gets me

Hamas says the hostages are in the tunnels and so Israel bombs the tunnels

How can they say they care about the hostages?

[The_Casual_Observer]

55. One more elephant in the room.

[GuppyGal]

46. They said SAFER in the south SAFER not 100% safe of course I mean really now.

[David__77]

57. If protection of non-combatants was of strategic importance they would be allowed out of war zone.

[EX500rider]

71. Yes, Egypt should do that

[David__77]

72. Israeli ministry proposes transferring Gaza civilians to Egypt's Sinai

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/israeli-ministry-proposes-transferring-gaza-civilians-to-egypts-sinai-2f99301e?authId=1

Ethnic cleansing

[EX500rider]

87. Or they want the civilians evacuated for their own safety and then they can come back

[Aussie105]

77. The whole 'IDF' name itself is deceptive.

Unless the 'D' stands for Destruction.