Post removed

[Army Brat]

1. Is there a link to the video?

I'd like to know exactly what she said.

[brooklynite]

2. Here

The video editor chose to highlight "stolen land" and "from the river to the sea"

[MOMFUDSKI]

4. Is "stolen land" a lie?

Asking for a friend.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

6. You can tell your friend

Yes, it’s a lie 😊

[TheRealNorth]

15. So this is a lie?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/21/the-most-successful-land-grab-strategy-since-1967-as-settlers-push-bedouins-off-west-bank-territory

[JohnSJ]

60. Not quite, and ignores some realities of war.

The Ottoman Empire controlled that area prior to WWI. Turkey aligned itself with Germany, and Germany
lost that war, and the British took control of the area.

WWII put a hold on that area, and the Mufti of Jerusalem urged Muslims "to cleanse their lands of the Jews" and laying the foundation for the anti-Semitic arguments used by radical Islamists to this day. Unfortunately for the Mufti of Jerusalem, the allies won WWII, and the British partitioned that area after WWII.

www.israelhayom.com/opinions/the-muftis-war-against-the-jews/

The 1967 War was an effort of the Arab nations to destroy Israel.

The 1972 War was an effort by the Arab nations to destroy Israel.

Before the Turks controlled that area it was contested and fought through wars by various parties for centuries.

[TheRealNorth]

63. None of what you wrote

Is relevant or gives an Israeli settler the right and go take a Palestinian's land on the West Bank.

Unless your are claiming that, by right of conquest, you can do that. Which kinda sounds like what Putin is doing in Ukraine.

[wnylib]

70. The OP is about Tlaib's misrepresentation of Biden's position

on the I/P issues. Biden has spoken out about the illegal settlements in the West Bank.

So Tlaib is spreading inflammatory lies.

[TheRealNorth]

72. My post was about the "stolen land is a lie" ascertation

So if you accept that there are illegal settlements on the West Bank, then "stolen land" is not a lie.

And I disagree Tlaib's response - I generally concur with Biden's position. But if the civilian casualties continue to mount and Israel continues drifting toward autocracy, I do believe we have to re-examine our diplomatic relationship.

[wnylib]

77. Depends on what you mean by stolen land.

To Hamas, Hezbollah, and to many Palestinian people who are not terrorists, "stolen land" means the existence of Israel. They claim that the land that Israel comprises belongs to Palestinian Arabs and that Israel has no right to be there.

That is a lie, since there have always been Jews in Palestine, since the ancient kingdom of Israel.

But, in terms of Israel's modern boundaries, it is true that the West Bank settlements are illegal. Just as there are Palestinians who believe that all of the land should be theirs, there are Israelis who believe that all of the land should belong to Israel. They are the hard right Israelis who support Netanyahu.

Biden's statements to Netanyahu are indications that Biden is willing to revisit our commitment to Israel if Netanyahu doesn't listen. The Israelis are fed up and angry with BIbi. If they get rid of him and vote in a better leader, every one will be better off.

I am concerned at the moment, though, about the OP indication that Tlaib is dividing the Dems, which is disastrous for us against Trump. Tlaib needs hard pushback from other Dems to stop misrepresenting Biden.

[msfiddlestix]

84. I couldn't agree more with you. spot on. and your the historical in this context well done!

wish I could rec your post more.

[JohnSJ]

75. Agreed, only pointing out that as the result of wars against Israel by their Arab neighbors, have been a disaster for

the Palestinians.

The closest that area actually came to a peace settlement was OSLO, but poor leadership put an end to that

[mzmolly]

62. Many of those slaughtered on October 7th, were peace activists.

In the most extreme cases, villagers are so frightened of travelling on roads controlled by settlers that Israeli activists from groups that try to protect Bedouin communities – living with them, walking with them as they herd flocks and documenting abuses – are bringing them food and water.

The arguments that 'land' is justification for slaughter ought to give many pause. Most of us, are not Native to America.

[TheRealNorth]

65. Those Bedouins on the West Bank had nothing to do with Hamas

YOU are the one that seems to be making the claim that stealing the Bedouin's land is justified because of what Hamas did.

[mzmolly]

76. I'm sorry you're misunderstanding my point.

I expect it's clear to most.

Hamas raped, burned, tortured, beheaded the innocent. They burned people alive. There is NO justification.

[WarGamer]

16. Because the British EMPIRE sliced off a piece of it's OCCUPIED territory, right?

[The Magistrate]

115. Not Really, Sir

The League of Nations gave England a twenty-five year mandate to administer the place. It was not quite an Imperial possession, nor a protectorate like Egypt or Iraq, nor, like Persia, a place England could exert economic pressure on sufficient to channel policy. At the time, with the Ottoman Empire defunct, and the Turkish Republic having no ability to enforce any claims based on Ottoman rule, there was no sovereign authority over the area, which is why the League was recognized as its possessor, in receivership, so to speak. The United Nations inherited the authorities of the League, the Mandate expired in 1947, with the territory partitioned into two zones, intended to be the precursors of two new states.

In English statecraft of the day, Palestine had no particular importance: it filled a small chink in an overland route (mostly aerial) to India, and the pipeline to Haifa was an outlet for Mosul oil: both things were a sort of insurance against any potential difficulties with the Suez Canal. The Balfour Declaration was not popular with colonial officials, and particularly not popular with English officers: both saw the policy as a threat to the loyalty of Moslems in the Empire, who provided the bulk of the Indian Army.

[WarGamer]

121. great summary, thanks!

[Cha]

10. Tell your friend this..

Link to tweet

She Never Has Taken Down THIS Tweet of hers....

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

[Celerity]

13. An example of 'stolen land': The West Bank settlements are absolutely illegal, even the US recognises them as such again

after the Trump administration reversed (in 2019) decades of US policy and said they were consistent with international law.

People claiming the settlements are not illegal are going against the Biden administration.

https://il.usembassy.gov/settlements-in-the-west-bank/



Most every other government on the planet says they are illegal, plus the UN does as well, as do many Israeli citizens.

If some are going to claim they are not illegal, then they are joining in with MAGAts and other certain types of chistofashies, plus the Netanyahu (and beyond even him) ultra RW hyper fundies, like the horrid Bezalel Smotrich:

Israeli minister condemned for claiming ‘no such thing’ as a Palestinian people

Bezalel Smotrich’s comments come as far-right coalition pushes ahead with judiciary overhaul

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/mar/20/israeli-minister-condemned-claiming-no-such-thing-as-a-palestinian-people-bezalel-smotrich

Not good company to keep for those pushing that 'they are not illegal' stance.

[TheRealNorth]

24. +1

In my mind, the "Israel can-do-no-wrong" people are as bad as the pro-Palestian protestors/SOB's with the "to the sea" signs.

[Cha]

47. Everyone I've read on this board knows

Israel is not pure but feels they’re correct about getting rid of Hamas

[inthewind21]

136. Ah

the "everyone I know fallacy"

p.s. Remember when the US fought a 20 year war against terrorism killing tens of thousands of civilians and "got rid" of Al Queda and the Taliban and terrorism in general? No? Me either! Learn nothing, lather, rinse, repeat!

[wnylib]

64. The OP is about Tlaib's slur against Biden.

Biden is NOT an "Israel can do no wrong person." He has pushed Israel to allow more humanitarian aid into Gaza. He has expressed to Israel the expectation that Netanyahu (or, hopefully, a successor to him) will not occupy Gaza and will work toward a two state solution. Biden has also spoken out about the illegal West Bank settlements.

So, Tlaib's slurs about Biden are inflammatory lies.

There are also many "Israel can do no right" people who are so committed to that view that they overlook the Hamas destruction of it's own people's lives.

Too many absolute either/or views, not enough both/and ones.

[wnylib]

59. Biden agrees that the West Bank settlements are illegal.

So why is Tlaib making false statements about Biden?

Are you defending her falsehoods?

[Celerity]

67. Strawman, as I never once defended Tlaib on this, in fact well before this latest stunt I have criticised

her on other issues too (I do believe I used the term 'bomb thrower' at least once). Zero tears if she was primaried out.

Hell, I might pop a cork of decent Franciacorta.

[wnylib]

68. It was just a question to clarify what you meant.

At least we agree on Tlaib. But the thread seems to be ignoring the OP and rehashing old arguments on the I/P conflicts instead of focusing on Tlaib's misrepresentation of Biden.

[Celerity]

69. fair enough

[kelly1mm]

83. So they are absolutely illegal depending on who occupies the office of US President? nt

[Celerity]

86. No, their legality is not dependent on who is the current POTUS, but if you try to claim they are not illegal,

you are agreeing with Trump and disagreeing with Biden (and many Presidents before Trump).

[kelly1mm]

89. Not agreeing with either President but simply pointing out that, apparently, the

settlements being 'absolutely illegal' is a determination to be made by the US President. For some reason .......

[Celerity]

93. I have never in my life made that claim, that claim (that the legality of the settlements is

determined by the POTUS) is absurd.

You are conflating agreeing (or disagreeing) with a POTUS-held stance with a determination of legality.

When Trump said they were legal, that did not change their illegality.

The POTUS is not the single controlling authority on the planet.

[kelly1mm]

100. With a veto on the UN security council I think the US President, in actuality, is one

of 5 controlling entities on the planet.

[Celerity]

107. Not in terms of international law. The US is not the single determining source of that.

No one nation is, regardless of their status (or lack thereof) of being a permanent member of the UN Security Council.

Following your logic, Russia's illegal war of aggression on Ukraine could be claimed (and is claimed by some malevolent actors) to be legal because Russia says it is legal and they are also a permanent member of the Council.

[kelly1mm]

111. Yes, I agree in substance. Who exactly is going to do anything against Russia? The UN?

Saying something is illegal without an enforcement mechanism is beyond pointless.

[Celerity]

112. NATO and other non NATO nations are backing/aiding Ukraine against Russia.

[kelly1mm]

113. Sure but has the Russian invasion of Ukraine been deemed 'illegal' by the UN? nt

[Celerity]

116. On February 28, 2022, the UNGA resolution condemning the Russian invasion as illegal was passed with an

overwhelming 141–5 vote majority, with 35 nations abstaining.

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/21314169-unga-resolution

[kelly1mm]

118. HAHA! The UNGA? You and I both know the UN Security Council is the only one that matters.

What enforcement mechanisms does a UNGA vote have if you are proposing that it's determination is in actuality a rebuke of Russian actions?

[Celerity]

125. Keep moving those goalposts. I have answered you in good faith, and you are now attempting

to find anything to stray away from the original point that the Israeli settlements are illegal.

I answered your question about Russia and the UN. Russia has veto power in the UNSC, but the UNGA DID pass the resolution.

As for enforcement power, there are obviously limitations on what the UN can do, but I am a huge supporter of the UN on balance. I refuse to give up on the exercising of soft power and its effects to bring about positive change, plus its buttressing of moral stances.

Back to the original point of discussion, almost every nation on the planet says the settlements are illegal, the UN as a whole says they are illegal, and many Israeli citizens hold that view as well.

[kelly1mm]

126. And I never said that the settlements were not illegal! I said what is the UN/international

community going to do about it? A determination, legitimate or not, without an effective enforcement mechanism is beyond useless as it just gives some hope.

[ripcord]

99. They are not illegal because UN policy doesn't overrule a nation's laws

Also Israel isn't a member of the ICC so this is all irrelevant.

[David__77]

102. I agree that nations should be sovereign and "international law" should have no power.

That said, I don’t want the US to fund their war.

[mcar]

25. Jews were there first

[TheRealNorth]

30. Please explain...

Who are you talking about. Are you saying that because a person is Jewish, they are entitled to any piece of land in Palestine that may or may not be currently owned by someone who isn't Jewish?

[mcar]

32. I responding to the "stolen land" comment

You are moving the goalposts. Islam and Christianity grew from Judaism. Thus, Jews were there first.

[Cha]

49. Ty mcar 🕊️🕯️

[TheRealNorth]

50. No, I am not moving the goal posts....

I am asking you to clarify your position. To me, it sounds like you are saying that the Palestinians have no right to live in Palestine, because 2500 years ago, Palestine was a Jewish state. And thus, from Roman times up until 1947, Palestine was "stolen".

[mcar]

53. Please don't decide what I am saying

You don’t speak for me. I made myself clear in my post.

[TheRealNorth]

61. No you did not make yourself clear....

So answer YES or NO. Are Israeli settlers STEALING land when they kick a Palestinian off the their land on the WEST BANK, or are they reclaiming previously stolen property (in your words).

[lees1975]

71. Actually,

Judaism grew out of the migration of Abraham and his family from ancient Chaldea, between the Tigris and Euphrates River which is modern day southern Iraq. Both Jews and Arabs are his descendants, both, according to the Old Testament, recipients of God's blessing, the Arabs being descendants of his son Ishmael, by his wife's Egyptian handmaiden. So they were both occupants of the land at about the same time.

[Mosby]

129. Arabs are not descendants of Ishmael and Abraham

That's biblical mythology.

They are not descended from Caananites either, historical linguistics prove that.

Arabs emerged from nomadic tribes living on the Arabian Peninsula.

[TheRealNorth]

133. That is factually incorrect

The Arabs that came out of Arabian Peninsula did not massacre and replace everyone when they conquered the Levant, Mesopotamia, or North Africa.

Your historical linguistics is nonsense. Just because the cultural melding of the Palestinians with the Arabic invader does not mean those people disappeared. Genetic analysis shows that the Palestinians were descendants of the Canaanites.

Just because the Palestinian culture changed and melded with Arab culture does not mean the Palestinian people were not there before the Arab invasion.

[Mosby]

134. The remnants of the Canaanite people are in Lebanon.

Continuity and Admixture in the Last Five Millennia of Levantine History from Ancient Canaanite and Present-Day Lebanese Genome Sequences

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5544389/

Jews and Arabs both have Canaanite markers but a linguistic analysis provides more details.

Although Arabic is related to Canaanite languages, the connection is more distant. Canaanite languages are grouped together with Aramaic and Amorite to form a higher level Semitic subfamily known as Northwest Semitic. Then, further back in time, this grouping in its turn was connected to Arabic in a subfamily known as Central Semitic.

Historical linguists have dated the separation of Arabic from Northwest Semitic around a thousand years earlier than the period when the Canaanite languages diverged from each other. This is not consistent with Ishmael being the father of the Arabs, for Arabic goes back to a much early branch of the Semitic family than the divisions between the the members of Abraham's family.

Over time, Arabic speakers displaced some of earlier Canaanite nations, including the Moabites and the Edomites, who had dwelled around Arabah rift valley and the Dead Sea. The Edomites were pushed to the north, into the southern edge of Judea, which became known known in Greek as Idumea. It seems that the Ishmaelites had been displaced centuries earlier.

https://www.meforum.org/57936/ishmael-father-arabs

Palestinians are a modern group, only developing a national identity less than a hundred years ago. So it's disengenous to claim they descended from Canaanites.

Of late, the Palestinian leadership has been repeating the theme that the Palestinians are descended from the Canaanites. Because it keeps reiterating this narrative, there is a concern that some in the West will fall for it.

The purpose of the “Canaanite” narrative, however, is not to shed light on the Palestinians’ real ancestry, but to deny the Jews’ narrative. Why the Canaanites? Because they were in the country before the Israelite tribes were and thus have precedence. According to Nabil Shaath, Jewish history is but a “potpourri of legends and fabrications.” The Canaanite narrative cannot promote reconciliation and compromise but only the destruction of the Israeli-Jewish narrative, according to the same principle by which the various communities are now destroying each other in Syria.

Hence, it is important to clarify how the Palestinians themselves view their own ancestry. Indeed, not a single Palestinian tribe identifies its roots in Canaan; instead, they all see themselves as proud Arabs descended from the most notable Arab tribes of the Hejaz, today’s Iraq, or Yemen. Even the Kanaan family of Nablus locates its origins in Syria.

Some families are Kurdish or Egyptian, and in Mount Hebron, there are traditions about Jewish origins.

This study does not deny the right of the Palestinian families as a whole to define themselves as a Palestinian people. It would be better, however, if the Palestinian leadership were to choose a positive and constructive narrative and not a baseless one that is intended to negate that of the other.

https://jcpa.org/article/who-are-the-palestinians/

[TheRealNorth]

137. Well, thats what the genetics say.

Last edited Tue Oct 31, 2023, 01:12 PM - Edit history (1)

Sure, the Canaanite culture as it was once known no longer exists. But those ancient peoples adapted and adopted new ideas, spoke the language of theirs, conquers, etc because that is how they survived . The genetic analysis and historical record shows that.

And honestly, it doesn't really matter except to the Palestinian and Israeli SOB's that want to kill or force out everyone on the other side and provide historical justification for it.

[wnylib]

74. I can't speak for the poster that you responded to

but the fact is that descendants of ancient Israel have always lived in Palestine.
Regardless of who took over rule of the land, those descendants who lived there continuously throughout the various rulers are indigenous to Palestine. Yet, in today's world, they are being cast as outsiders because Arabs took over ruling them in their own land for many centuries.

But the OP is about Tlaib's inflammatory lies about Biden, who has spoken out to Israel about the illegal settlements, the need for more aid to Gaza, and the expectation that Israel will not occupy Gaza after the war, but will work for a two state solution.

The issue in the OP is the malicious lies that Tlaib is spreading about Biden.

She needs to go.

[Celerity]

38. no they were not, that is simply historically inaccurate

There is an overwhelming lack of historical Jewish control (on balance) of Jerusalem and much of the surrounding area that is modern Israel as the last 6 and a half or so millennia have rolled by, and they certainly were not the 'first' people living there, as you (and others) erroneously claim.

Also, Israel, the modern nation state, is very young, only around since 1948. If you go back just 100 years there were only around 84,000 Jews there, 140 years ago only 24,000, and hundreds of years before that only 5,000 or so.

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jewish-and-non-jewish-population-of-israel-palestine-1517-present






^The British mandate for Palestine, which began in 1922, ended prior to Israel’s declaration of independence on May 14, 1948. The Arab states invaded, and following the war, Palestine ceased to exist. The figures for 1948 are for the State of Israel. The figures prior to 1970 do not include the West Bank and East Jerusalem, the Gaza Strip, or the Golan Heights, which were occupied by Jordan, Egypt, and Syria, respectively. From 1970, the figures only include citizens of Israel and not Palestinians living in the disputed territories. *As of September 14, 2023

[mcar]

39. I didn't say they were the first people living there

I said they were there before Muslims. They were.

[Celerity]

43. Muslims are not a race, and some of the roots of the current Palestinian population go back to

to Canaanite times (at least), which is before the Hebrews ever came to the area.


Pre-Arab/Islamic influences on the Palestinian national identity

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_of_the_Palestinians

While Palestinian culture is today primarily Arab and Islamic, many Palestinians identify with earlier civilizations that inhabited the land of Palestine. According to Walid Khalidi, in Ottoman times "the Palestinians considered themselves to be descended not only from Arab conquerors of the seventh century but also from indigenous peoples who had lived in the country since time immemorial."

In 1876, Claude R. Conder of the Palestine Exploration Fund (PEF) wrote that:

It is well known to those familiar to the country that whatever else they may be, the Fellahin, or native peasantry of Palestine, are not Arabs; and if we judge from the names of the topographical features their language can scarcely be called Arabic.

Similarly Ali Qleibo, a Palestinian anthropologist, argues:

Throughout history a great diversity of peoples has moved into the region and made Palestine their homeland: Canaanites, Jebusites, Philistines from Crete, Anatolian and Lydian Greeks, Hebrews, Amorites, Edomites, Nabataeans, Arameans, Romans, Arabs, and Western European Crusaders, to name a few. Each of them appropriated different regions that overlapped in time and competed for sovereignty and land. Others, such as Ancient Egyptians, Hittites, Persians, Babylonians, and the Mongol raids of the late 1200s, were historical 'events' whose successive occupations were as ravaging as the effects of major earthquakes ... Like shooting stars, the various cultures shine for a brief moment before they fade out of official historical and cultural records of Palestine. The people, however, survive. In their customs and manners, fossils of these ancient civilizations survived until modernity—albeit modernity camouflaged under the veneer of Islam and Arabic culture.

George Antonius, founder of modern Arab nationalist history, wrote in his seminal 1938 book The Arab Awakening:

The Arabs' connection with Palestine goes back uninterruptedly to the earliest historic times, for the term 'Arab' [in Palestine] denotes nowadays not merely the incomers from the Arabian Peninsula who occupied the country in the seventh century, but also the older populations who intermarried with their conquerors, acquired their speech, customs and ways of thought and became permanently arabised.

American historian Bernard Lewis writes:

Clearly, in Palestine as elsewhere in the Middle East, the modern inhabitants include among their ancestors those who lived in the country in antiquity. Equally obviously, the demographic mix was greatly modified over the centuries by migration, deportation, immigration, and settlement. This was particularly true in Palestine, where the population was transformed by such events as the Jewish rebellion against Rome and its suppression, the Arab conquest, the coming and going of the Crusaders, the devastation and resettlement of the coastlands by the Mamluk and Turkish regimes, and, from the nineteenth century, by extensive migrations from both within and from outside the region. Through invasion and deportation, and successive changes of rule and of culture, the face of the Palestinian population changed several times. No doubt, the original inhabitants were never entirely obliterated, but in the course of time they were successively Judaized, Christianized, and Islamized. Their language was transformed to Hebrew, then to Aramaic, then to Arabic.

[wnylib]

58. What land theft are you referring to in Palestine?

The Greek and later Roman theft of land from the native Jewish inhabitants? Or the Roman Christian claim to the land after Constantine? Or the Arab land grab in Palestine in the 7th century that made the native Jewish inhabitants into second class citizens on their own land that continued under various caliphs and then the Ottoman Empire until WWI? Or maybe the British rule that, despite prior promises to Jews about a self-governing homeland, favored the Palestinian Arabs when it withdrew?

Jews are native to Palestine. But because Arabs have also lived there for so long, the land should be divided between two nations, Israel and whatever the Palestinians choose to call their nation if they try to establish one instead of focusing on destroying Israel.

That means that, as Biden has said and I agree with, Israel must stop colonizing the West Bank. But it does not mean that Israel "stole" land to become a nation. The descendants of ancient Israel have always lived in Palestine. They are indigenous to the region.

[leftstreet]

3. Yeah, strip her assignments like the Senate did with Manchin and Sinema

oh wait...

[tritsofme]

5. Remind me when either of those senators slurred our president as a genocide supporter.

Regardless, it was not a viable option when those two can respond by stripping Democrats of the majority in the chamber.

Tlaib has left the Democratic Party, might as well acknowledge the reality on the House floor.

[Pepsidog]

7. She is reckless and irresponsible.

[PortTack]

46. To my notion she always has been

Giggling like a school girl and whispering to the person standing next to her, while then speaker Pelosi was giving a press conference. Saying terrible things about other Dems including HRC

[Cha]

51. Rec TY

[AkFemDem]

127. She and a few of her little friends

Threatened to stop Nancy Pelosi from even taking the speakership.

Pepperidge Farms remembers.

[Army Brat]

8. She didn't say she would withhold her vote

She said they would remember. It's definitely a push, but let's wait and see if she actually supports him.

[tritsofme]

9. I have no use for someone in our caucus who slurs an incredible Democratic president as a genocide supporter.

These lies are beyond vile and disgusting. No reason to wait and play these sorts of games.

[TheRealNorth]

17. I agree

It's more of a war crime at this moment. What happens long-term will determine if it is genocide or not.

[TheRealNorth]

22. Why?

Do you have some sort of psychic knowledge to say that it was not. Did your magic 8 ball say, " not a war crime".

[TheRealNorth]

66. We all know that an unhindered independent investigation will never happen

Lets, for the sake of argument, call it an "alleged" war crime. I don't see the IDF allowing independent investigators in to determine what the facts are.

[kwolf68]

28. Of course the post doesn't

8,000 dead Palestinians, and how many Hamas killed? 15? Israel's statements are getting more and more extreme, now Benny is evoking biblical scripture in his war against the "human animals". There is very little more disgusting to what Hamas did in early October, but the slaughtering of innocent people is just not right. This is becoming worse by the day as Israel continues to slaughter pigs because the pigs saw the Wolf kill the chickens.

[questionseverything]

55. Unicef says 420 children a day are dying in gaza

I’m sure that’s a war crime

[kelly1mm]

110. Not in and of itself a war crime. Please cite the Geneva Convention article that supports your assertion. nt

[Cha]

57. No it's Not a "war crime " either. But

Chooses to Slur Pres Biden with as much propaganda as possible by saying he’s guilty of genocide.

[LymphocyteLover]

87. yes, as has been extensively discussed in another thread here

[Autumn]

14. They should do to her what they did to Sinema and Manchin. nt

[tritsofme]

18. Oh, did they slur President Biden as a genocide supporter and spread vicious lies about him?

As I mentioned above, it was not a viable option when those two can respond by stripping Democrats of the majority in the chamber.

[Autumn]

20. They derailed his agenda whenever they could. She spoke what she believes, I'm fine with that.

I doubt it bothered Biden at all, he's a good man and I think he realizes how much what is happening to the Palestinians must hurt her. He's a very empathic person

[tritsofme]

23. If she is so blinded by emotion that she can't help but spread vicious lies about President Biden

It should be her duty to resign.

[Autumn]

31. She is a Palestinian American. She is speaking to the pain she feels for the

Palestinian people and her family members in danger there. Duty to resign?? Yeah, just what we need, less Democrats in the house
While you're at it throw out Cori Bush, she isn't very happy with what is going on.

[tritsofme]

35. Again, this doesn't justify spreading vicious lies about President Biden. As for Bush, she gained a credible primary

challenger today. I wish him the best of luck, seems like it would be a big upgrade for the district.

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/4283766-democrat-drops-out-of-missouri-senate-race-challenges-cori-bush-for-house-seat/

[Autumn]

37. Good luck with that. He lost to her before and I'm sure he will again.

[edisdead]

41. Hmmm I am not sure what to think here

We have a representative claiming that our president is guilty of supporting genocide and that individual is getting a pass for some reason.

[Autumn]

54. She's a Palestinian American. She has family there. Is it required that Americans support only

Israel? Last I heard there are a lot of people who support Palestine and a lot of people support Israel. I guess it all depends on one's roots.

[edisdead]

78. Why are you asking me that question?

Did I say that Americans should only support israel?

Until it is agreed that I didn’t say that there is no reason for discussion.

I want to have a conversation, not an argument over something that I did not say.

Can we agree that I did not say that Americans support only Israel?

[Autumn]

85. I didn't say you said "that Americans support only Israel" I simply asked if they should only support

Israel. She happens to be an elected Palestinian American politician with family over there in harms way. She has every right to voice her opinion and she doesn't need a pass.

edisdead (1,392 posts)
41. Hmmm I am not sure what to think here
Reply to Autumn (Reply #37)
Mon Oct 30, 2023, 11:08 PM
We have a representative claiming that our president is guilty of supporting genocide and that individual is getting a pass for some reason.

[stopdiggin]

82. a lot of 'support' for Palestinians

doesn't label our president as a "supporter of genocide." It's the reckless and incendiary language that is the problem - not the sympathy or concern for Palestinian lives.

[Takket]

114. "She spoke what she believes, I'm fine with that."

Are you kidding me?

So does drumpf. Are you fine with what he says too?

She has every right to say what she wants but as responsible members of the party we need to be calling out outright bullshit and lies.

[Autumn]

131. I'm absolutely fine with her saying what she feels.

"responsible members of the party" "outright bullshit and lies"? I think it all depends on which side of the fence you are looking out of. I'm not a republican, I don't believe in running along lock step with any politician. I'm a Democrat, a woman capable of looking at any situation and forming an opinion from there. I think she is too.

[dalton99a]

21. Did this woman ever condemn or criticize Hamas for slaughtering 1,400 civilians in Israel?

[Cha]

120. No. She stilll won't delete her "hospital" propaganda..

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

[getagrip_already]

27. Maybe we can negotiate a package deal with santos

One of your for one of ours.

[edisdead]

29. this is extremely irresponsible.

This type of shit is going to split our vote. It is going to be 2016 all over again.

[Vogon_Glory]

33. And she should think of the consequences of re-electing Trump.

Re-uniting divided Palestinian or Levantine immigrant families? Kiss that notion goodbye (along with our own democracy) if Agent Orange returns to the White House.

[tritsofme]

36. I agree, her implicit endorsement of Trump is beyond irresponsible.

Beyond explanation.

[edisdead]

40. Yep. You can have your feelings

Yep. You can have your feelings but as a U.S. Rep you have to be careful about when and how you voice them.

[ZonkerHarris]

34. That's one viewpoint.

[BlueCheeseAgain]

42. I completely disagree with her...

But I think the Democratic Party needs to be able to hold a range of opinions.

[tritsofme]

45. Opinions that include labeling President Biden as a genocide supporter, while offering Trump her implicit endorsement?

There needs to be a line somewhere, and she leaped over it.

[PortTack]

48. Bingo!

[Happy Hoosier]

52. Accusing Biden of being complicit in genocide?

That‘s not an acceptable opinion in our party, IMO.

[Skittles]

44. I think that gal has issues

I tired of her long ago.

[lapucelle]

56. Someone needs to remind Tlaib that there was a ceasefire. Hamas broke it on October 7, 2023.

And how disgusting that the video was edited to include the anti-Semitic "from the river to the sea" chant.

[lees1975]

73. Since when do Democrats strip members of committee assignments

for holding a different perspective and opinion?

What I see here is an opportunity for diplomacy and statesmanship. The President should call Congresswoman Tlaib to the White House and sit down and listen to what she has to say. That's how we do things.

[TexasDem69]

79. "A different perspective"

Isn’t the same as accusing the president and leader of our party of genocide. She has to go.

[Autumn]

91. How many Democrats are you willing to get rid of?

[TexasDem69]

97. Every one who falsely accuses President Biden of supporting genocide

I support President Joe Biden and his policies. How about you? What lies are you willing to tolerate from a Democrat who doesn’t support the elected leader of our party? I’m pretty sure President Biden is with me on this one.

[tritsofme]

98. Probably just the ones that accuse President Biden of supporting genocide, while implicitly endorsing Trump.

[JackCoop]

101. Do The Words "Senator Al Franken" Ring A Bell ?

That sort of blew up in our faces, no ?

[Autumn]

132. Sure as fuck it did.

I am gob smacked that anyone, at this fucking time wants to kick a Democrat out of office because she hurt their feelings.

[lees1975]

92. she did not accuse him of genocide

She equated his support for Israel as support for genocide, a legitimate opinion based on the fact that thousands of people have died in Gaza under Israeli bombing.

Noting that the President did caution Bibi not to pursue vengeance and not to make mistakes in responding to the Hamas attack, would open her comment to legitimate criticism. And we keep advocating treating this like Republicans, rather than realizing that there's going to be a negotiation, a reconciliation attempt and reason applied when emotions cool down and discussion can happen.

[TexasDem69]

95. You are correct

And I misspoke. She did not accuse President Biden of committing genocide himself. She accused him of supporting genocide because he supports Israel’s right to defend itself against the Hamas child killers. A distinction without a difference.

[lees1975]

105. Do you know the whole history of how it came to be that 2 million Palestinians are jammed into Gaza?

The fact that Israel is a slice of land carved out of an imperial British conquest and occupation after World War 1 that gave no consideration to the fact Israel hadn't been under Jewish political control since 585 B.C. and were exiled in 70 AD by the Roman conquest? What about the Palestinians who have had their homes and property taken away to make room for Jewish migrants from Europe, accellerating after the Holocaust? How many Palestinans have died for no reason except that they were Palestinans on land someone else wanted to own? This Hamas attack was horrific and inhumane. But so has the Israeli destruction of the Arabs who lived in the land they''ve taken over.

What would our reaction be if a foreign country invaded and conquered the United States and then started moving everyone in Texas to its far western counties in order to make room for the descendants of the ancient native American occupants of the region to come in and take over everything.

There is no justification for the kind of attack made by Hamas. But there's a history that leads to its cause, and it includes a lot of the same kind of brutality. No one anywhere is convinced that this can ever be settled. It hasn't been, not since 1917.

[OAITW r.2.0]

80. Best comment, IMHO, on this thread.

We will change reality when we have a super majority in both House and Senate, and the Presidency.

[The Grand Illuminist]

81. She has the very right to question.

It is what she was elected for.

[LymphocyteLover]

88. that's not going to happen, but she will be persona non grata and fade away... and probably if she pushes enough

Russian propaganda, start appearing on FoxNews, like Tulsi Gabbard

[David__77]

90. I wish there had been more people like Tlaib in congress back when LBJ was president.

[tritsofme]

94. Do you think President Biden supports genocide?

[David__77]

96. No. And I think Tlaib is great.

[tritsofme]

103. Strange thing to say about someone who viciously slurs a Democratic president and implicitly endorses Trump

But to each their own, I suppose!

[David__77]

104. It's a big tent, that's for sure!

[Aussie105]

106. Why?

She got her facts wrong, got emotional and said a few things she shouldn't have.

Under the circumstances, she needs sympathy and understanding.

[tritsofme]

109. That's utterly absurd. She needs to act like a responsible lawmaker.

Her vicious lies about President Biden and implicit support of Trump are completely unacceptable. No excuses. This is far from her first rodeo.

[AkFemDem]

128. Lol, no.

She’s an elected member of the US House of Representatives, not a sorority sister. She’s had several weeks to get this right in her head and on paper - this wasn’t an overwrought, emotional mistake by this point- it’s a deliberate, calculated POLITICAL statement .

[betsuni]

130. Yes, agree.

[totodeinhere]

108. I hope she is satisfied when her actions help to elect Trump

n/t

[lees1975]

124. She, more than almost anyone else, knows

that not voting for Biden and encouraging other Democrats not to do so would be a disaster for everything she supports.

Emotions are running high. Let's stop looking for chips to knock off each other's shoulders and go after our real enemies.

And yes, the Congresswoman needs to heed the same advice. This is what our enemies, and I mean foreign as well as Republicans, want to see.

[DemocraticPatriot]

117. CHILL! TAKE A PILL!

She was elected to represent her district, and her district has more say in this, than YOU do....


You didn't like whatever she said. OK....


But she didn't commit any "crime" by stating whatever her opinion was...

Meanwhile, the Republican caucus is FULL OF CRIMINALS whom NO ONE will allow to be exported!

DO YOU HEAR WHAT I AM SAYING ???

It is a year before the 2024 election---
I think she will reconsider her statement long before then....

And what about 'Dean "WHO"? '


Tempers are high, at the moment....

[tritsofme]

122. This isn't an honest disagreement where reasonable people can differ. She has branded Biden a genocide supporter and

implicitly endorsed Trump.

[DemocraticPatriot]

119. NO. End of story.

[Polybius]

123. The only Squad member that I like is AOC

The rest I have severe issues with, especially Bush and Tlaib.

[AntivaxHunters]

135. Summer Lee is 🔥