"Not in Our Name" Protest Grand Central Station Speaks for me - and I recognize not for others

[Nanjeanne]

Full disclosure - I'm a NY Jew w/family that were killed as members of French resistence. I have two cousins living in Israel. I was horrified and devastated by the terrorist attack by Hamas. I am also horrified and devastated by the Israeli destruction of Gaza. I have never been a supporter of Netanyahu (neither are my cousins living in Israel) and I've been so deeply saddened by the continuing settlements in the West Bank. I've always believed Judiasm is my religion - my faith. It has never been my nationality or my ideology. This is a difficult time and I work through the pain of what is happening every day. But I've being doing that off and on for many years as Israel became more and more right-wing. Many Jews have - and there is a large group of Jews in Israel and a large group of Jews in the US who feel what Netanyahu is doing now will never give Israel what he says he wants - a way to live in peace.

The rise in anti-semitisim and the rise in anti-Muslim - anti-Palestinian violence is frightening and the harsh words from all sides is igniting a fire I'm scared will burn for a very long time.

I can't post on this forum much, particularly now, because I am definitely an outlier to the majority of posters left. I don't have answers but I do know what is happening now is not it. I think there are others left on DU who may feel as torn, conflicted, and saddened as I am. I am proud of those posters who still continue to engage as I know how difficult it is. I wanted to leave a few videos here . . . for those people who need to know they are not alone in our wish for a ceasefire and a way forward to bring peace to a region that is on fire.

Edited with thanks for the instruction on how to post these as tweet/videos.

In US -- these are short videos of elderly Jewish protestors asking for peace as well as a NY Congressperson.

Link to tweet

?s=20] Remarkable woman "I'm older than Israel"

Link to tweet

?s=20] NY Congressman

Link to tweet

?s=20] An elderly woman who needed help getting up from floor because she wanted the policeman (who was so kind to her) to arrest her.

In Israel - this is a short video of Israeli citizens protesting in Tel Aviv.
https://www.thenationalnews.com/mena/palestine-israel/2023/10/29/israeli-protesters-demand-ceasefire-as-netanyahu-vows-long-and-difficult-war/]

We will find a way...

[Basic LA]

1. So beautifully stated.

Thank you for this. I was beginning to lose heart here.

[Hermit-The-Prog]

2. OT: substitute "twitter.com" for "x.com" in those links and they will embed on DU

[Nanjeanne]

4. Thank You - That worked!

[Hermit-The-Prog]

6. Welcome, and thank you for the thoughtful, humane OP.

[malaise]

3. Thank you

Rec.

[Aussie105]

5. So well written.

"I've always believed Judiasm is my religion - my faith. It has never been my nationality or my ideology. "

So true.

People join those three up into one when they should not.

When the red veil of war lifts and the hate subsides, only a great sorrow will follow. As it has always.

Let the war end soon, so the sorrow and mourning can start. And the endless rebuilding of lives and homes can start.

[Mosby]

39. That may be true for her

But Judaism is an ethnoreligious group, with a religious component, ethnic component and cultural components.

It's not up to you or her to decide it's not.

[Nanjeanne]

51. Thank you for allowing me to decide what my faith is for me. I have no desire to get into a

religious or theoretical or historical argument with you. There are many components of Judaism, as you say. And many American Jews practice their faith on their own terms in their own way.

For context Pew Research has interesting 2020 information.

2. Jewish identity and belief
Religion is not central to the lives of most U.S. Jews. Even Jews by religion are much less likely than Christian adults to consider religion to be very important in their lives (28% vs. 57%). And among Jews as a whole, far more report that they find meaning in spending time with their families or friends, engaging with arts and literature, being outdoors, and pursuing their education or careers than find meaning in their religious faith. Twice as many Jewish Americans say they derive a great deal of meaning and fulfillment from spending time with pets as say the same about their religion.

And yet, even for many Jews who are not particularly religious, Jewish identity matters: Fully three-quarters of Jewish Americans say that “being Jewish” is either very important (42%) or somewhat important (34%) to them.

U.S. Jews do not have a single, uniform answer to what being Jewish means. When asked whether being Jewish is mainly a matter of religion, ancestry, culture or some combination of those things, Jews respond in a wide variety of ways, with just one-in-ten saying it is only a matter of religion.

Many American Jews prioritize cultural components of Judaism over religious ones. Most Jewish adults say that remembering the Holocaust, leading a moral and ethical life, working for justice and equality in society, and being intellectually curious are “essential” to what it means to them to be Jewish. Far fewer say that observing Jewish law is an essential part of their Jewish identity. Indeed, more consider “having a good sense of humor” to be essential to being Jewish than consider following halakha (traditional Jewish law) essential (34% vs. 15%).

Orthodox Jews are a striking exception to many of these overall findings. They are among the most highly religious groups in U.S. society – along with White evangelicals and Black Protestants – in terms of the share who say religion is very important in their lives. A plurality of Orthodox Jews say that being Jewish is mainly about religion alone (40%), and they are the only subgroup in the survey who overwhelmingly feel that observing halakha is essential to their Jewishness (83%). Fully three-quarters of the Orthodox say they find a great deal of meaning and fulfillment in their religion, exceeded only by the share who feel that way about spending time with their families (86%). And 93% of Orthodox Jews say they believe in God as described in the Bible, compared with a quarter of Jews overall.

[Mossfern]

54. Agree

We are a People

[Mosby]

57. My screen name

I shared once how I thought up my screen name but I don't feel like sharing right now.

[DemocraticPatriot]

61. I think willl rename myself "Quantrill"---

Any objections, Democratic patriots ??

'Quantrill' was a Confedederate traitor who traveled east towards Lincoln around the end of the civil war, with the objective of assassinating the Union president... he was killed by Union troops somewhere in Kentucky (if i recall corretly), before he could come close to accomplishing that objective.....

[Donkees]

7. "Not in Our Name" 400 Arrested at Jewish-Led Sit-in at NYC's Grand Central Demanding Gaza Ceasefire

Oct 30, 2023

We bring you the voices of Jewish Voice for Peace and their allies who shut down the main terminal of Grand Central Station during rush hour Friday in one of New York's largest acts of civil disobedience in 20 years to demand a ceasefire in Gaza. The multiracial, intergenerational movement says about 400 people were arrested, including rabbis, famous actors and elected officials from the New York State Assembly and Senate and the City Council.

Transcript: democracynow.org

[Nanjeanne]

11. Watch DN every morning - this was such a strong piece

8-9 AM on Free Speech TV. Amy Goodman is a national treasure and I learn so much every day. They've been remarkable on this particular conflict. Obviously it's Democracy Now "the war and peace report" so there will always be a slant towards the peace . . . but they have presented an Israeli and a Palestinian both in every coverage. And because the interviews go on for a decent amount of time - there is a lot of time for full answers and in depth questions rather than what you get now on "news" - the same people who were wrong about everything showing up to be wrong again - in soundbites.

I didn't include the whole video -- not many people here on DU seem to have patience for watching or reading at length. But this is a great piece that people should take time to watch the whole thing. Thank you for posting it.

[LymphocyteLover]

35. I used to listen to Democracy Now for years every day up to the 2016 election, then got totally turned off

by them pushing Jill Stein and various pro-Russian propagandists. DN is no friend to Democrats and I fear their programming pushes people away from the Dem party.

[Nanjeanne]

38. Well that's certainly your right.

I’m not going to get into a tugging war on your opinion of Democracy Now. I love hearing so many different stories, actually hearing world news and in depth interviews even with people I might not agree with.

Like we don’t agree. That’s the interesting thing about life.

[LymphocyteLover]

43. that's fine... just giving my perspective

[enough]

8. Thank you Nanjeanne 🙏

[leftstreet]

9. DURec

[moonshinegnomie]

10. there can and will be no peace until hamas is wiped out

thats a simple reality. israel is going to do everything they can to wipe the terrorists out and there is pretty much nothing anyone can do about it

[kwolf68]

13. Sure

And damn near any Palestinian innocent child along the way as well. Now we got Nothingyahoo actually evoking Biblical scripture in a latest comment to explain why Israel is going to kill the Palestinians. Other people within his government are not even scared to say who they are going to try to wipe out. The entire thing was fucked at the start (when Hamas slaughtered innocents) and the entire thing remains fucked as a new round of innocent get slaughtered, but they are Palestinians, or "Human Animals" so Israel tells us.

[Nanjeanne]

14. Kind of like we got rid of the Taliban

More than 50% of the population of Gaza is young, never voted for Hamas since there have been no elections. The destruction and terror can only create more hatred and terrorism.

There a wonderful woman, Sari Bashi, Program Dir for Human rights Watch. She is an Israeli Jew married to a Palestinian. Search her out. She has written wonderful articles. You can follow her on Twitter. She did an interview with Democracy Now recently talking about the different rights she has from her husband. She doesn’t live in Gaza but she can go through checkpoints that her husband isn’t allowed through. She and her children have to leave her husband behind when she visits family in certain areas.

I read a piece by a physician talking about how Gazans are not allowed by Israel to freely travel outside Gaza. And some children with cancer who had to be treated outside Gaza that were excited by the prospect of seeing mountains. Sure, they had cancer. But they got out of Gaza briefly and saw mountains.

[LymphocyteLover]

32. Hamas brought this upon their people and every Palestinian death is their fault to a large degree

their use of human shields is no joke

[inthewind21]

67. Huh

So when it's YOUR kids killed, you'll suck it up because hey, it's THEIR fault and IT had to be done. Got it!

[LymphocyteLover]

70. Um, no. That's not the point at all. Any innocent deahts are tragic. But it's insane to blame this all on Israel.

[Skittles]

16. they will never be "wiped out"

as long as the hatred is passed down from generation to generation, NOTHING will change

[JackCoop]

37. Yep... I Fear It Will Add More To There Numbers

When someone at a recent press conference said that Israel will "wipe Hamas out"...

My first thought was, "Or quadruple their membership."

[Bettie]

64. Well, if they do as Netanyahu's chosen quote suggests

there will be no one left in Gaza.

I expect he'll move on to the West Bank after that and help the settlers wipe out everyone else there.

[David__77]

12. Thank you.

I really appreciate your contribution.

[Hamlette]

15. thanks for posting this, it is exactly how I feel

but when I say it, I'm accused of antisemitism. We need more people like you to stand up.

[Nanjeanne]

17. This is why I posted

There are many Jews around the world standing up — but unfortunately on DU those threads like you said become about antisemitism or lost because there is much more action unfortunately on threads posting some obscure legitimate antisemite post or video. So much discussion about a horrible — and it is horrible attack against Jewish people in a college but no mention of the attacks and protests onMuslim students at Brooklyn College or the two California universities.

It is going to get worse and I fear for all of us.

[Celerity]

19. never give in to that type of agitprop fire-hosed out by some (including the radical 'bulldoze Gaza' types)

[Hamlette]

34. This is such a touchy subject. I lost a good friend over my opinion of Bibi.

Unfortunately she got a horrible type of cancer and died before we could make up.

I've learned it is better to keep my mouth shut.

[Celerity]

40. I will never be silenced on subjects I have strong feelings about. That would be against my very nature

as a human being who definitely asserts my own right to self-agency.

As for Netanyahu, he is a corrupt fascist wannabe, same as Trump.

If I met a person who supported either or both of them, then I would very likely never invite then into my sphere of friendship.

[Hamlette]

50. I'm the same way. I will never be silenced if speaking up might make a difference.

I've learned that some friendships are worth moderating what I say.

This friend did not try to defend Netanyahu, I'm not even sure his name came up in the discussion. It was a prior skirmish some years ago where I thought the Israeli response was too harsh. She called me antisemitic and I finished the game (we were playing bridge) and left. I then dropped the bridge club I was so mad. Plenty of blame to go around and I have since learned it was an inappropriate place to have a serious discussion about a touchy and serious issue. I only wish I'd kept my cool.

I wish I could have talked to her about Bibi. I believe had we talked about it later, she would have seen my point of view and we'd have carried on. That was impossible.

[BigOleDummy]

18. Well said Nanjeanne

Well said indeed.

[Collimator]

20. Much appreciation, Nanjeanne.

Thank you for your post demonstrating decency, compassion and a clear-minded acknowledgment of the shared humanity that the world will need if we are ever to find any real solutions to our conflicts.

[Chautauquas]

21. Thank you for posting this

at a time when discussion is being tossed aside and replaced by hostility it's refreshing to see a thoughtful post like this.

[ripcord]

22. FYI you arent Israeli, they arent doing anything in your name

[Celerity]

25. They are Jewish, therefore they are by definition entitled to their opinion on the Jewish homeland, a homeland

they are by law entitled to live in if they chose to.

I see people trying to play pick and choose games with people of Jewish descent:

Maximal definitions of who is Jewish and invoking the global Jewish population as a unified whole when it situationally suits a stance they (the pick and choose crowd) want to take...............

but then placing situational limitations and exclusions when a Jewish person takes a stance they (the pick and choose crowd) do not want ro be manifested.

[Nanjeanne]

27. Ok thanks for telling me that.

[Wonder Why]

30. Then again, not likely any Israelis posting on this issue in DU. However, a lot of people blaming each other

for expressing their opinions and/or feelings on both sides. A lot of hate here on this site.

[brooklynite]

23. Simple question: why?

Last edited Mon Oct 30, 2023, 10:11 PM - Edit history (1)

Not "why did you feel the need to protest", but "why did you decide to protest at Grand Central? I worked for the MTA for 30+ years and they don't have a foreign policy which influences what happens in Israel or Gaza. They do however have tens of thousands of daily commuters who also don't have a foreign policy role and are likely pissed at whatever arguments you were offering.

I'll observe that the UN was three block east, and there was a public park two blocks west. Neither was chosen as the site of your protest.

[Aussie105]

31. Maximum exposure. Tens of thousands of daily commuters see the protest.

The idea that the protests should be held elsewhere is just people saying . . . ok, but do it somewhere else where I can ignore you.

[brooklynite]

33. And what was the result of tens of thousands of commuters seeing the protest?

Did they all call their elected officials and demand a change in Israeli policy? Or were they happy that the people who delayed their commute home got arrested?

[Nanjeanne]

41. Maybe they did. Maybe they got press. Maybe they felt stronger and not so alone. I know

when I walked for women’s rights in college and when I protested the Vietnam War I felt stronger and less alone.

I am able to march, protest, write to newspapers, make phone calls, and contact my state and National reps. I guess I’m a multitasker. Maybe some of those people are too.

[brooklynite]

44. Are you saying they wouldn't have gotten the sam press and togetherness outside the United Nations?

[Nanjeanne]

48. Why? Maybe...

for the same reasons that protestors went to Capitol Hill and occupied part of a House building on the 18th. Maybe why we used to have sit ins. Or why indigenous people protest to stop pipelines.

But really this is kind of getting silly so I’ll bow out of responding to “why”. I don’t care why those chose GCS. Only that I couldn’t be there with them.

My post was about how I feel when I listen to Professor Rosalind Petchesky or Dr. Auerbach. I said some won’t feel the same. This wasn’t about you.

[brooklynite]

49. It isn't about me...

Its about the daily Metro-North and LIRR customers who MIGHT support a ceasefire but were likely pissed off when their commute was interfered with.

I've looked at how OWS influenced people who worked in Lower Manhattan and how various protests have impacted traffic on the Brooklyn Bridge and I haven't see signs that they've changed the opinion of either the Government or the affected locals.

[inthewind21]

68. It's

ALWAYS all about you.

[brooklynite]

69. Insults are always a compelling counter-argument.

[Nanjeanne]

36. Grand Central Station. NY. A meeting place. A crossroads for so many people. Why not?

What a strange objection. And really why do you care where they protested?

I mean fine if you don’t like what some Jews are saying and standing with their fellow citizens. Don’t join the call for a ceasefire. Your right as a human being to do what you think is best.

As is the right of 83 yr old Rosalind Petchesky and Joyce Ravitz and pediatrician Dr Steve Auerbach who said “ I’ve never been prouder to be a pediatrician than when, back on Friday, October 13th, thoroughly mainstream organization, the New York state chapter of the American Academy of Pediatrics said that “We stand with the children of Israel and the children of Gaza. We love all children, all families equally,” and calling for an immediate ceasefire. So, that was back on October 13th. Unfortunately, children and their families continue to be killed. These sorts of collective actions, collective responsibility is illegal. These sorts of mass killings of civilian areas, mass bombings of civilian areas are illegal and immoral.”

Your right not to be there. Their right to be there.

Peace.

[brooklynite]

42. The Constitution (1st Amendment) states:

Congress shall make no law respecting a...the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

It does NOT say that people have the right to interfere with the rights of other citizens when doing so. And from a practical standpoint, I find that blocking the train, the road, the airport etc. generates far more ill will toward the protestors than it generates awareness of the issue.

[Mossfern]

56. I agree with you

But need I apologize for being in the Grand Central Station Yip-in?

Speaking as a former New Yorker, I would definitely be annoyed - even if I supported the cause of the protesters. I would be pissed that they were influencing people negatively.

Never get in the way of a New Yorker who is trying to get somewhere!

[PufPuf23]

24. Thank you. What you post needs to be noted.

Not capable of generating the one-sided hate some exhibit at DU.

Also know where the hate leads and how the USA has damaged our own supposed ideals.

Condemn Hamas.

Condemn the rightwing leadership of Israel and the IDF.

Tired of other doing shit in my name and blaming me for not being complicit.

[JohnSJ]

26. Here is some information about JVP by the ADL, and the JVP does not represent the majority of American Jews

https://www.adl.org/resources/backgrounder/jewish-voice-peace

“ Jewish Voice for Peace is a radical anti-Israel activist group that advocates for a complete economic, cultural and academic boycott of the state of Israel. JVP rejects the view that the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is a tragic dispute over land which has been perpetuated by a cycle of violence, fear, and distrust on both sides, in favor of the belief that Israeli policies and actions are motivated by deeply rooted Jewish racial chauvinism and religious supremacism.

JVP considers supporters of Israel, or even critics of Israel who do not hew to JVP’s own extreme views, to be complicit in Israel’s purported acts of racist oppression of Palestinians. JVP leaders believe that expressing support for Israel, or not challenging mainstream Jewish organizations that support Israel, must also be viewed as an implicit attack on people of color and all marginalized groups in the United States. JVP’s energetic proselytizing of this view – especially among other social justice groups -- has created a hostile environment for many progressive Jews. In a sense, JVP is extending its boycott agenda to include not just Israel but its American supporters as well.

More troubling, JVP’s dissemination of the view that Israel and its U.S. supporters are fundamentally racist oppressors of non-Jews has the effect of perpetuating the classic anti-Jewish stereotype of Jews as self-centered elitists, disdainful of non-Jews, who are focused on their own interests, sometimes at others’ expense. Additionally, JVP’s ongoing insistence that virtually all criticism of Israel cannot be anti-Semitic gives cover to anti-Semites who couch their malice toward Jews as mere anti-Zionism.”

JVP does not represent the mainstream Jewish community, which it views as bigoted for its association with Israel. JVP’s staunch anti-Zionist positions place it squarely in opposition to mainstream American Jews and Jews worldwide, most of whom view a connection with Israel as an integral part of their social, cultural or religious Jewish identities. JVP promulgates the view that Jews who identify even tangentially with Israel are motivated by white supremacy, Jewish racial chauvinism and religious supremacism.

The spread of JVP’s most inflammatory ideas can help give rise to antisemitism. Many left-wing groups have uncritically accepted JVP’s anti-Zionist claims, elevating their harsh rhetoric related to Israel and Zionism and furthering the widespread antisemitic vilification and ostracization of many American Jews who identify as Zionists. This has helped to create a hostile environment for Jews on many campuses and in many progressive spaces.

[Behind the Aegis]

60. As you can see...

...most don't give a shit. They revel in JVP. Everyone needs a token they can point to and this group is it...willingly!

[Aussie105]

28. It is complicated.

The politics of the situation is complicated.

The violent death of an individual isn't. Nor is their age, religion or where they live important.

The protests aren't political. They are humanitarian.

[DBoon]

29. K&R for demonsrating compassion for humanity

a true progressive value.

[Deuxcents]

46. I am not Jewish. I was not born in Israel.

I was born in the US and not particularly religious, at all. Having said that, this issue is quite controversial and we all have opinions about it. “Not in my name” can mean a lot to different people and for me, I don’t like the disrespect when opinions are not shared. I am also entitled to say “not in my name” as my tax dollars support this military action and I don’t like it. At all. After 70 plus years, I think that if enough effort had been put forth in peaceful solutions, both Israelis and Palestinians could have a thriving economy, educate their children and make contributions to society. Terror groups in all societies need to be eliminated as they are responsible for the hate and unrest and lack of trust among those involved..in Israel or even here in the US. We can all have our say but in the end, it’s up to the people that we elect..who make the decisions..and I hope very deeply that they make the best decisions. We’re only here for a short time and it would be so much better if everyone had the opportunity to live in peace and that takes effort and tolerance which is short supply these days.

[Xavier Breath]

47. So very well stated, K&R. n/t

[Turbineguy]

52. It helps Hamas, but they don't appreciate it.

Any more than they appreciated Rachel Corrie's sacrifice.

[Doc Sportello]

53. K&R

As others have stated, so elegant and heartfelt, as well as humane. I wish others on here had that same level of humanity.

[brush]

58. Thanks for the post. Netanyahu and Hamas both have to go.

I keep posting hear of the need for impartiality and even-handness for towards the innocent civilians on both sides.

The push back I get is most often anything but that.

[David__77]

59. It may come down to the courage to oppose ethnic cleansing

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/israeli-ministry-proposes-transferring-gaza-civilians-to-egypts-sinai-2f99301e?authId=1

[Maraya1969]

62. I feel like I have no right to reply because I am confused/well like a lot of people are confused but I wanted to

mention what Hillary Clinton said about a ceasefire and how she disagreed with pushing for one. She said it would give Hamas time and energy to restock their weapons etc. But it would also give time for everyone else to restock their weapons and do morel planning. The only reason I thought it was a good idea was because Hillary said it but Hillary is not a God and she can be wrong.

[Nanjeanne]

63. I'll need to prefece this by saying Yes I Voted For Hillary . . . but her relationship with Kissinger was always

problematic to me and I will risk the wrath of the DU brigade who will descend on me and tell me I'm not a Democrat and I'm the reason Hillary lost (even though, as I said I voted for her - just as I voted for Biden and every other Democrat in every election - even when I disagreed with some of their stances) - to say that there are times I agreed with her foreign policy stances and times I did not. I didn't agree with her vote on the Iraq war, her support of the surge in Afghanistan, the TPP, Libya and many others.

So. . . I can disagree with her about a ceasefire as well. We need discussion. We need debate. We need ideas. We need to make thoughtful decisions. There's absolutely no harm in coming to your own conclusions. Hillary believes this, I am sure. I happen to disagree with her. The law of retaliation is a never-ending cycle. There are many historians, scholars and foreign policy people who believe that too.

Making up our own minds on what we think is right is a powerful tool and honest discussion is what we should be engaged in.

[Maraya1969]

65. I remember getting really mad at Obama a couple times. Just because you vote for someone does not mean you have to

agree with everything they do. And debate is a good thing because it brings out ideas you have never thought about.

[Nanjeanne]

66. I was a member of OFA and organized many events for them in support of Obama. When he gave

away the public option idea, I dropped out and when I spoke with my chapter's leader she told me that I was not alone and unfortunately a lot of disappointed people who were heavily involved also did the same. And yet - I voted for him - and cried on election day.

Things are complex. I had many other disappointments with Obama (pretending to drink the water in Flint was a huge one) . . . but I have much admiration too. If life were simply black and white maybe it would be different. I prefer colors even though that creates messy situations and thoughtful dialogue. So I understand what you are saying.