CNN's Wolf Blitzer: You knew that there were innocent civilians in that refugee camp, right?

[demmiblue]

CNN's Wolf Blitzer: You knew that there were innocent civilians in that refugee camp, right?

IDF spox: This is the tragedy of war. We told them to move south.

Blitzer: So you decided to drop the bomb anyway.

IDF spox: We’re doing everything we can to minimize civilian deaths.

Link to tweet

[MOMFUDSKI]

1. Wolf doesn't seem to be

sticking to his agenda. Wha??

[Happy Hoosier]

2. Of course....

… Hamas knows there are civilians there too. And still choose to operate from there.

[agingdem]

32. Hamas ousted the Palestinian Authority

and has had broad based support for 17 years...Hamas stockpiles weapons in tunnels dug under homes/schools,/hospitals/mosques ...this is a war Hamas triggered when they mutilated Jewish babies, raped Jewish mothers, set fire to Jewish elderly, slaughtered Jewish young people because they had the audacity to attend a music festival, and kidnapped hundreds of Jewish men, women, and children...

Israel has every right to retaliate, ignore NATO and their call for restraint (Hamas cheered as they massacred)...again, this is war, the innocent will die, and that's a fact..

[krawhitham]

47. Glad your good with genocide

[agingdem]

48. My parents were Holocaust survivors...Auschwitz

Last edited Wed Nov 1, 2023, 02:24 AM - Edit history (2)

I know genocide...Hamas's endgame is to kill Jews, all Jews, wipe them from the face of the earth...whereas Israel's endgame is peace but when they are attacked they will retaliate..

the plight of the Palestinians in Gaza is of their own making...Hamas skims and diverts humanitarian aid into their own pockets while they live in poverty...all self-inflicted...

[PCIntern]

56. Stop with the "genocide" bs

Deliberate misuse of a term whose meaning bears no resemblance to the actions.

[calguy]

61. I call BS

On your genocide BS

[ExciteBike66]

57. How many kids are they allowed to bomb?

I mean, even you have a limit, right?

[hlthe2b]

3. CNN must have cut off Wolf's massages and facials and he's feeling sufficiently cranky

to actually ask a probing question. Like a stopped watch, we can occasionally get him to act like a reporter/professional interviewer. And it IS a fair question and one that the IDF spokesperson should expect to be asked and answered.

[Nanjeanne]

4. Wolf Blitzer was once the editor of an AIPAC newsletter and very pro-Israel. It it really something that he

seemed so disbelieving and incredulous by the IDF's spokesperson's explanation for bombing a refugee camp.

[obamanut2012]

10. Thank you for mentioning the AIPAC newsletter

I couldn't remember if that was factual or not.

[GuppyGal]

49. Most of the media reporting is slanting this way ....I have to think he's towing the companying line

[leftstreet]

5. When you've lost Wolf Blitzer...n/t

[malaise]

6. THIS

Nothing else to be said

[PCIntern]

7. Nobody in Israel gives a damn about Wolf Blitzer...

These marauding psychopaths came in and murdered 1400 children, women, and civilians In cold blood. The terrorists have hidden behind the civilian population and cannot get away with it any longer. That is what happens when you do this, and what the civilian population needs to do is to turn against Hamas and Point them out so that they can be eliminated. Of course, they are not going to do that, but you cannot live in such an area and get away with it forever. Some thing had to eventually give, And it did.

[leftstreet]

12. No, I wasn't saying they did

Watching the clip, it looks like Blitzer thought he was going to get confirmation that the bombing HADN'T happened the way it did. He seemed seriously rocked. Well, for him

[PCIntern]

13. Gotcha.

[TeamProg]

17. Wolf isn't on U.S. TV for the Israelis, right? The entire thing is very horrible but the response from Bibi, the

criminal Trump buddy, has been over the top IMHO and others'.

There is a resemblance to genocide.

[PCIntern]

25. No there is NOT

You know, the Republicans use a word over and over and over again, and Americans begin to believe it. I don’t think that’s gonna work with the rest of us.

[TeamProg]

30. You don't think the response has been over the top? Not to be gaudy, but do we know the actual count of the dead

for each?

Dollars in billions of damage for each?

The numbers will undoubtedly tell a story at the end of this mess.

[PCIntern]

38. Actions have consequences

Horrible actions have horrible consequences. Japanese found out after Pearl Harbor, the Germans found out after bombing London and attempting to annihilate minority populations in Europe, and conquering the Russians.

[GuppyGal]

50. Oh is that how it's settled body for body count ?

Jesus Fucking Christ

[underpants]

8. No kidding.

[Iggo]

9. It's okay, though, see?

Because when you’re super mad, and “they started it”, you can do all the war crimes you want. And you can brand anyone who doesn’t like it as a Jew-hater. It’s foolproof!

[obamanut2012]

11. Unfortunately, that is true for many folks

Disheartening.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

15. The only war crime here

Is Hamas hiding amongst innocent civilians.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

22. Nope

Never said that.

[Cha]

23. "Bless your heart"... That's not what he said.

Link to tweet

[GuppyGal]

51. I'm really getting tired of hearing this tired line. OK fine ya know what yeah I don't care about children.

I mean how silly is this?

[Chautauquas]

46. +1

[Big Blue Marble]

53. Well, if that doesn't sum it up perfectly.

Anything no matter how horrific is justified. And if you are horrified, just blame it on Hamas.

[David__77]

14. It seems to me that some people consider Arab ethnicity non-combatants to be "fair game".

And that is no better than those who hold similar views aimed at Jewish people, from an anti-Semitic perspective.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

16. Speaking for myself

I don’t consider them fair game, but if legitimate targets are hiding amongst them, they’re going to be hurt or killed.

That’s on Hamas, not Israel.

[David__77]

19. Is there any limit in terms of body count or percentage of the population to be killed? Sounds very open-ended.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

21. I'm not one of the

Commanders on the ground that knows the values of each target, so I can’t answer that.

For me personally, after what Hamas did, what they want to keep doing, and the fact that my first responsibility would be to Israeli citizens, I probably probably have a pretty high limit.

[David__77]

27. I appreciate your response.

In combat, armed forces must weigh the value of non-combatant lives of "enemy peoples" against those of its own armed forces. They may ascertain that it is better to kill 1,000 non-combatants than seriously risk the lives of 30 of their own, for instance.

[womanofthehills]

28. Guardian

?si=DFYa-3eBWdNNRnru

[SunSeeker]

34. Those "some people" would be Hamas, who use Arab non-combatants as human shields.

The same Hamas who gleefully displays a half-naked unconscious female kidnap victim in the back of a pickup to cheering crowds through the streets of Gaza City... before bashing her head to pieces.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/30/middleeast/shani-louk-dead-israel-intl/index.html

Israel is not targeting non-combatants. That's Hamas who does that. Israel gave the Palestinian non-combatants over 2 weeks warning that they must move to South Gaza. 800,000 did. Hamas gave the civilians of Israel no warning.

https://www.nbcnews.com/video/israel-drops-leaflets-telling-gaza-city-residents-to-flee-195136581697

[David__77]

37. So, Israel bears zero responsibility to protect the lives of non-combatants with no way out of the combat zone?

[The Magistrate]

42. Israel's Responsibility, Sir

It to judge whether the direct military advantage gained by a strike is proportionate to the risk of harming civilians it entails. Pictures of rubble and dead and maimed humans in street clothes are insufficient guide to whether the judgement was a reasonable one. Certainly claims by a propaganda shop are no guide to such assessment.

It is the responsibility of Hamas to refrain from establishing its facilities and firing points in places where, should they be engaged by the enemy, civilian casualties are certain to occur. There is no balancing test, no right to consider if the direct military advantage gained is proportionate to the risk imposed on non-combatants.

The root crime is Hamas' strategy of using non-combatants as a species of cover, and courting their deaths as blood and martyrdom useful to the their aim. Which Hamas made quite clear on the 7th of October last: their aim is pogrom and lynching bee.

[David__77]

43. "no right to consider if the direct military advantage gained is proportionate to the risk imposed on non-combatants"

That's a wonkish sort of the marketing that would be gladly taken up by all sorts of people throughout history.

Nonetheless, I think the "species" shall persist.

[The Magistrate]

44. You Can Do Better Than That, Sir

If you think it proper for a military force to shelter itself with living humans, state so openly, and have done with pussyfooting about the fact. If you feel sheltering behind living humans ought to prevent military engagement by an enemy, say so. If anyone calls for an 'open season', I would suggest it is you. If a soldiery can protect itself by sheltering behind living human beings, why should any force deploy without a body of civilians to advance before the fighters, or ride the tanks, or bed down amongst the artillery, or atop the HQ bunker?

[lostnfound]

63. Humans tend to demote the value of innocence based on nationality, race, religion

We who were raised to be idealists are distressed by this. It feels immoral.

It is very normal for a society to be so CHEERED, so filled with REJOICING, when 1 or 2 or 20 innocent people of our own particular tribe are rescued from captors — or from earthquake rubble, an avalanche, or the bottom of a well like ‘baby Jessica’. Especially children.

But when 2 or 200 innocent people or 2000 are killed in the process of getting the right set of bad men, we must shrug our shoulders and say ‘well it is war.’ Otherwise we would never win.

A series of “they shoulda’s” is the next refuge for our disconcerted minds.

We can’t sit in judgment of the Israelis. They have good reason to be furious and to want a final solution after such an atrocious attack.
We can’t sit in judgment of innocent Palestinians — for not moving to the south? For not uprising from their cribs and their disempowered positions as women, to stop the grotesquely violent and oddly powerful Hamas?

So I’ve decided personally to resort to The Shitamachi Test. I as an American will refrain from judging the wrongness of the IDF approach until it inflicts the equivalent of the misery that my own country inflicted on mostly innocent civilians, mostly women and children, in the firebombing of the most highly crowded neighborhoods of Tokyo, to win the war with Japan.

It quells any desire I have to get on a high horse about it and helps maintain an inhuman human perspective in my psyche — so far removed from the divine spark I have buried deep because it kept disturbing my peace, the voice that keeps insisting ‘in God’s eyes we are all equal.’ An innocent on our side, an innocent on their side, innocents everywhere, even the children of sinners — all worth the same.

I apologize to innocent people everywhere, for my newfound chosen cynicism.
Sadly chosen, Sir.

[obamanut2012]

35. This attitude on DU is just shocking to me

This reminds me so much of the US after 9/11, and the bloodlust for us to punish anyone, even when they had nothing to do with 9/11 ie Iraq. Excusing killing civilians, including kids. Jesus.

[Straw Man]

60. Israel is and always has been in a struggle for its very survival.

Don't forget: It was born out of the ashes of the Holocaust.

The threat to Israel is real, and it is ongoing. Hamas hides behind Palestinian children and relies on reactions just like yours to protect them. The blood of Palestinian children is on their hands. Israel is protecting its own children.

[obamanut2012]

62. My stance is as legitimate as yours

I actually care about all the civilians and all the children.

Thank you for your post, which proved my point.

[Straw Man]

69. What does that mean?

I actually care about all the civilians and all the children.

It's an easy stance to take when your own children are not the ones at risk.

Thank you for your post, which proved my point.

What was your point, and how did my post prove it?

[Straw Man]

55. Wrong.

It seems to me that some people consider Arab ethnicity non-combatants to be "fair game".

And that is no better than those who hold similar views aimed at Jewish people, from an anti-Semitic perspective.

Uh, no. If that were true, Israel could have essentially obliterated the entire population of Gaza by now. They haven't, and they won't.

If Hamas had the opportunity and the means, they would gladly slaughter the entire population of Israel. That's the difference.

Capisici?

[ZonkerHarris]

18. Israels attempts to eliminate the philosophy behind Hamas will be completely successful by killing innocent civilians

I'm sure this will work out for them and Palestinians will come to their way of thinking very quickly.
Peace solved!

[radicalleft]

29. Attn: Beatings will continue until morale improves!

HR bulletin I read somewhere...

[womanofthehills]

24. MSNBC - keeps saying explosions - finally says maybe bunker bombs

?si=NiCSZ5JX9PFR3Haw

[womanofthehills]

26. NBC

?si=cUNh6kumdYSHtihQ

[LauraInLA]

52. That would suggest they were targeting tunnels, then? EOM

[tmars505]

31. making future enemies

the problem for the Israeli people is that the Palestinian people are not going to forget. Never. Unless another accommodation is found this cycle will continue to the future.

[Jedi Guy]

39. And...

The problem for the Palestinian people is that the Israelis are never going to forget, either. They haven't forgotten the last time someone declared their intention to eradicate the Jews.

There's a very good reason one of their mottos is, "Never again."

[RocRizzo55]

33. Nothing but Nothing

Justifies bombing of innocent civilians. BOTH SIDES are in the wrong here.
When will people listen? When will there be a cease fire?
There are reasons on BOTH SIDES why there was an attack, and why such a retaliation.
Neither is justified.
Hamas is not justified in what they did, neither is the IDF.
There has to be a two state solution to this.

[SunSeeker]

36. How does a 2 state solution solve the problem if Hamas still exists?

Hamas exists to destroy Israel. Hamas does not believe in 2 states. That's why they disrupt all peace attempts.

[RocRizzo55]

54. When are you going to

Stop parroting Zionist propaganda. That phrase is from an old document. Look at the latest.
Besides it might help if the Zionists didn't say, on many occasions, that their aim is to kill all the Palestinians.

[Straw Man]

58. When are you going to ...

... stop parroting Hamas propaganda?

Besides it might help if the Zionists didn't say, on many occasions, that their aim is to kill all the Palestinians.

Who said that? When? Where? If Israel wanted to "kill all the Palestinians," they could have already done it many times over.

[RocRizzo55]

65. When you folks

stop parroting Zionist propaganda!
It works both ways.
BTW, can you tell me why they decided to bomb the Golan Heights? There is no Hamas there.
Clearly this is how they intend to take over the rest of the land, and annex it to Israel. That has been Bibi's plan all along.
Not propaganda.

[Straw Man]

70. Oh, please.

Last edited Thu Nov 2, 2023, 01:52 AM - Edit history (1)

BTW, can you tell me why they decided to bomb the Golan Heights? There is no Hamas there.

No -- Hezbollah is there, and they are firing missiles and artillery at Israeli positions.

To use an old expression, "Don't piss in my ear and tell me that it's raining."

[SunSeeker]

68. When are you going to stop being so wrong?

I am not "parroting Zionist propaganda." I am stating a fact.

The latest Hamas charter, the 2017 charter, accepted for the first time the idea of a Palestinian state within the borders that existed before 1967, but it still rejected recognition of Israel, which it terms as the "Zionist enemy."

The Israeli government has never said it is Israel's aim "to kill all the Palestinians." Many Palestinians in fact live in Israel. There are approximately 1.6 million Palestinian citizens of Israel, comprising about 20% of the total Israeli population.

Are you seriously defending Hamas? They are barbaric terrorists who intentionally target civilians, unlike Israel, and viciously slaughtered 1400 innocent men, women and children, and took over 200 hostages. They recently paraded the lifeless, half-naked body of a young woman they kidnapped from the Nova music festival and drove her through the streets of Gaza City, to the cheers of their supporters, on video. https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/30/middleeast/shani-louk-dead-israel-intl/index.html THAT is who you are defending.

[ChicagoComrade]

41. It gladdens the heart to see the war cheers go up.

Heaven is but a missile away, and hell, oh, just a fleeting thought in the grand banquet of battle! Lost, oh we're not lost, we're right at home in the embrace of annihilation, aren't we?"

[GP6971]

45. Welcome to DU.

What's your point?

[ChicagoComrade]

64. 2 I think.

[Mike Nelson]

59. Wolf!

... Wolf! Blitzer... I remember him from the Iraq wars. But, is that is a silly question. If it's a REFUGEE CAMP, it has civilians, right? The terrorists, like Hamas, set up their bases of operation behind civilians... they do this because it is safer for themselves. It makes their targets think twice about striking them. I sometimes wonder if Wolf! Blitzer understands... is he "fed" questions, or are they things he wants to know?

[EX500rider]

66. Well most of us consider actual refugee camps to be...

....people who recently fled a war zone and are living in tents.

Not people whose great-grandparents left part of Palestine to another part of Palestine 50 miles away and now live in a urban city with multi story apts 75 years later.

[revmclaren]

67. That was the image that came to mind

when I read posts here on DU.

Then I saw actual photos of the area and was 'what the hell'.

Words create a mind image of what we read. No wonder its easy for Hamas to build tunnels under the 'refugee camps '. They are building under friggin buildings!