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radicalleft

(484 posts)
Wed Nov 1, 2023, 06:23 PM Nov 2023

Hamas reports bad / IDF reports bad

https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-war-gaza-health-ministry-health-death-toll-59470820308b31f1faf73c703400b033

The ministry is the only official source for Gaza casualties. Israel has sealed Gaza’s borders, barring foreign journalists and humanitarian workers. The AP is among a small number of international news organizations with teams in Gaza. While those journalists cannot do a comprehensive count, they’ve viewed large numbers of bodies at the sites of airstrikes, morgues and funerals.

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My comment - If the Hamas numbers are not to be trusted, then let the journalist from indepentdent countries in to report on the casualties and provide some neautral informantion.

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https://www.lemonde.fr/en/opinion/article/2023/10/29/open-up-access-to-gaza-and-protect-journalists_6212695_23.html

Since October 7, journalists have been faced with a serious and worrying situation. While the Gaza Strip has been under intense Israeli bombardment, the foreign press has been denied access by Israel and Egypt. They have made it impossible to enter, impossible to report on events without depending on the press department of each side.
11 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Hamas reports bad / IDF reports bad (Original Post) radicalleft Nov 2023 OP
But That's The Thing, Sir The Magistrate Nov 2023 #1
Agreed radicalleft Nov 2023 #2
They Won't Have The Scope Of Observation Needed, Sir The Magistrate Nov 2023 #3
Oh so they won't see what the result is of the campaign is? radicalleft Nov 2023 #6
That Would Seem To Settle Matters The Magistrate Nov 2023 #7
Holy hell! radicalleft Nov 2023 #8
Interesting That You Posit Fear As A Motive For Disagreeing With You The Magistrate Nov 2023 #9
War reporters have a bad habit of getting killed in GAZA... WarGamer Nov 2023 #4
Funny how that happens radicalleft Nov 2023 #5
The OP looks like you are equating the two GuppyGal Nov 2023 #10
No I wasn't... radicalleft Nov 2023 #11

The Magistrate

(95,725 posts)
1. But That's The Thing, Sir
Wed Nov 1, 2023, 06:46 PM
Nov 2023

Part of fighting a war is shaping perceptions of your cause and military actions in ways favorable to you.

Neutral information, if in the heat of battle that is even possible to acquire, is the last thing any participant desires.

There are two basic strategies.

One is conscious distortion, disseminating things it would be helpful if people believed that you know are false.

One is giving out something close to what you honestly think is going on, and by cultivating a repute for honesty earned over time so gain the trust of neutral parties.

But no one at war is, and no one at war will, tell the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, no matter what they may swear on that they do so.


"They say war's an art but it's not. It mostly consists in outwitting people, robbing widows and orphans, and inflicting suffering on the helpless, and that's not art: That's business.""



radicalleft

(484 posts)
2. Agreed
Wed Nov 1, 2023, 06:48 PM
Nov 2023
But no one at war is, and no one at war will, tell the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, no matter what they may swear on that they do so.

Hence the need to let independent observers in to hold the actors accountable

The Magistrate

(95,725 posts)
3. They Won't Have The Scope Of Observation Needed, Sir
Wed Nov 1, 2023, 07:21 PM
Nov 2023

Like any infantryman, they'll see only what's right before them.

In most instances, they won't be free to choose what they see. No one is allowed to wander at will about a battlefield, and attempts to do so will quickly disclose this.

They won't be party to intelligence guiding actions, will have no idea what occurs in headquarters, what targets are aimed at and why. There's a lot more to it than just counting corpses and craters.

radicalleft

(484 posts)
6. Oh so they won't see what the result is of the campaign is?
Wed Nov 1, 2023, 07:30 PM
Nov 2023

Are you suggesting that because they won't be privy to secrret classified meetings that they will somehow lose sight of the overall mission objectives and not be able to understand how those bits of human flesh lying about amoung what used to be homes is really not problematic?

The Magistrate

(95,725 posts)
7. That Would Seem To Settle Matters
Wed Nov 1, 2023, 07:44 PM
Nov 2023

You're no more interested in neutral observation of facts than any information ministry. You simply hope to secure a better pedigree for a propaganda line charging the foe is a bloodthirsty monster.


"Scorecards! Get'cher scorecards here! Can't tell the players without a scorecard!"

radicalleft

(484 posts)
8. Holy hell!
Wed Nov 1, 2023, 07:48 PM
Nov 2023

I am 100% in support of independent facts and no amount of your flowery language will change that fact! JFC what are you afraid of? Will seeing mass casualties boradcast on national TV uspet your sensibilities? Will it change the narrative? Will people be allowed to decide for themselves if the cost is worth the sacrifice?

The Magistrate

(95,725 posts)
9. Interesting That You Posit Fear As A Motive For Disagreeing With You
Wed Nov 1, 2023, 07:55 PM
Nov 2023

That would never cross my mind.


"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."



radicalleft

(484 posts)
11. No I wasn't...
Wed Nov 1, 2023, 08:01 PM
Nov 2023

I was going for the one side says 1 source bad the other side says other source bad...

Basically how most arguments these days get lost in discrediting the source rather then the merits of the facts.

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