Most divisive topics on the DU

[True Dough]

I've only been a member here for seven years. The Democratic primary was a very tense period. Some people fought hard for their chosen candidate and there were some hard feelings.

Now the Israel/Palestine conflict has torn a lot of people apart.

Here's hoping that the wounds will heal sooner than later.

For the longtime DUers, what other issues do you recall that were polarizing among Democrats here?

[JohnSJ]

1. The Hillary hating in 2016 was the worst in my view

[LetMyPeopleVote]

42. I was a Clinton delegate to the 2016 National Convention and experienced this first hand and up close

Normally going to a national convention is a once in a lifetime experience. I had worked really hard inside the party on campaigns and voter protection issues for a very long time to be be in the position to run for and be elected as delegate. Too bad that Sanders and his vetted delegates ruined that experience and did their best to help TFG. A candidate has absolute approval rights over their pledged delegates because these delegates can change their votes and these delegates represent the candidate and campaign. I helped vet Clinton delegates and I know that I was vetted. The Clinton campaign told us that we represent her and that our actions would reflect on her and her campaign.

In contrast, Sanders sent one very weak text the Sunday night before the convention and then did little or nothing to control his delegates. It was nasty I was there when the Sanders delegates booed Congressman John Lewis., Elijah Cummings and Stach Abrams. I was warned about each of these stunts 30 minutes before it happened by the Clinton campaign whip. According to my whip, Sanders was asked to stop this event and declined. That incident will be used against sanders if he runs in 2020.

I was at the Texas delegation breakfast when a group of Sanders delegates marched in and demanded that we condemn Clinton and change our votes to Sanders.

Sanders spoke to the Texas delegation the next morning and his speech was again solely about himself. There was a mini-riot due to his delegates the prior morning and the only thing that Sanders talked about was himself. Sanders did nothing to deal with the fact that his delegates were out of control and did nothing to try to help Hillary Clinton win the general election.

Finally, a group of Sanders delegates yelled at my daughter and called her the c-Word because she would not try to get me to change my vote. My daughter was my guest and she got to attend the first night and see Michelle Obama. Again, Sanders was asked to tell his delegates to behave during the convention and Sanders refused.

Texas may change the way it selects delegates next cycle, and I will see if I want to run. I was a day one contributor to Joe Biden and got to meet Joe Biden at two different private fundraisers. I was amused when Joe signed some floor speech signs from his speech at the 2016 convention while not missing a beat talking to another guest. Joe then took my iPhone took three selfies with me better than I could do. At the next fundraiser, I had maxxed out for the primary and so got to talk to Joe about stuttering.

The process of running for and getting elected to be a delegate to a national convention takes a great deal effort and you still have to be vetted before you are an official delegate. I have friends who were at the 2008 and 2012 conventions, and they had a good time. Time will tell if I try again.

[betsuni]

63. There will never was or will be such a lust to hate Hillary/Democrats as there was in 2016.

[MistakenLamb]

68. regressives are trying their hardest for 2024

[BeyondGeography]

2. HRC v Obama in 07-08

Whatever happened to Save Elmer?

[multigraincracker]

3. Very strange.

Liberals fighting over support of two different hard core right wing factions. Both being religious, closed minded groups fighting over whose God is greater.
Go figure.

[claudette]

4. I really don't

see ANYONE here "supporting" Hamas. No one has EVER supported the group that has committed the horror against Israel on 10/7 that I have seen.

I don't know how many times people have said it, "support for the innocent Palestinians does NOT translate into support for Hamas."

[Big Blue Marble]

14. It is, of course, ridiculous to claim anyone here is supporting Hamas terrorism,

but is repeated on DU over and over as a tactic to demean concern over the injustices
inflicted on the Palestinian people. It is a way to gloss concern over the deaths of 1000's
of children. It is the technique used to put those who care about the siege and destruction
of Gaza on the defensive. Just ignore it.

[Sympthsical]

18. Someone in another thread said Hamas is "fighting for human rights"

So . . . that happened.

[Big Blue Marble]

32. That is highly disturbing and simply not true.

Hamas is another want-to-be Taliban who would govern the Palestinians just as The Taliban
terrorizes the citizens of Afghanistan. They are horrible and very dangerous not only to Israel
but also to the people of Gaza. Human rights are the farthest from their goals, stated or otherwise.

There is misinformation on both sides of this discussion. But I have yet to see a post such
as you are referring. It is the exception that should be challenged by all people.

[Sympthsical]

34. It's being challenged

One defense, but it's a pretty funny one, so.

I agree about Hamas.

It's a mess, no two ways about it. What comes after. Put the PA in? Not so simple. But if it were an easy answer, this would've been solved by now.

[yagotme]

20. Poster here is supporting Hamas for "fighting for human rights".

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100218425016#post25

i guess one could call that support for Hamas...

[questionseverything]

39. What he says is, Hamas is fighting to destabilize

He compares hamas with right wing republicans

[yagotme]

48. Yes, comparison, yes, as sentence stands, "fighting for human rights".

Unfortunately, the US has the same insurgents, but they are not fighting for human rights, like Hamas

Until poster clarifies this sentence, I can only read it as it is.

[questionseverything]

50. You are purposely only quoting half the sentence

[yagotme]

52. Here ya go:

Unfortunately, the US has the same insurgents, but they are not fighting for human rights, like Hamas,
Reply to Layzeebeaver (Reply #22)
Sat Nov 4, 2023, 04:48 AM
under the orange idiot, they are fighting to destablize the US.

The US has the same insurgents, (under the orange idiot) not fighting for human rights, (like Hamas is), but fighting to destabilize the US.

Punctuation and capitalization mean things. Would you rather help your uncle jack off a horse, or help your Uncle Jack, off a horse. The poster has not yet clarified exactly what he meant by this post, even after several reply posts. Until he clarifies, we are stuck with what is actually in the post. "I mean what I say, not say what I mean".

[claudette]

21. I try to ignore it

But, it does make me upset to think anyone would support terrorists.

[boston bean]

64. Conflating Judaism with a fanatical Islamic terrorist group

whose sole purpose is the annihilation of Jews and Israel is disturbing.

[yagotme]

19. What would you make of this comment?

Unfortunately, the US has the same insurgents, but they are not fighting for human rights, like Hamas

Seems they are supporting Hamas fighting for human rights...

[Think. Again.]

40. I haven't seen any...

...support for one of those right-wing factions though.

I have seen support for the citizens that the rightwing faction hamas rules over, and for the rightwing faction of Israel, and for the citizens of Israel, but I haven't seen any support for hamas except for the very strange "Human Rights" post which I still can't wrap my head around.

[Act_of_Reparation]

61. You know I'm as critical of religion as the next firebreathing Atheist...

...but I think it is a little off the mark to view this as essentially a religious conflict. It is a conflict over land... made immeasurably worse by religion.

[canetoad]

5. Michael Jackson. nt

[True Dough]

11. Seriously?

Over whether people should continue to listen to his music after it was alleged he was a child molester?

[EarlG]

6. In reverse chronological order... :)

2020: Democratic Primary (lots of different Dem candidates fighting to replace Trump).

2008-2016: General infighting throughout the entire Obama presidency over what Obama should or shouldn't have done

2016: Democratic Primary (a long, bad fight between Sanders supporters and Clinton supporters)

2012: Should Obama be re-elected, or face a primary opponent? (This didn't last too long but did happen.)

2010: Mid-terms (post ACA "told you so" infighting after bad mid-term losses)

2010: ACA battles over public option and universal healthcare.

2008: Election of Obama and simultaneous passage of Prop 8 in California (banning same-sex marriage) caused instant rifts on DU.

2008: Democratic Primary (lots of different Dem candidates fighting to replace Bush, eventually boiling down a long, bad fight between Clinton supporters and Obama supporters)

2004: Democratic Primary (a long, bad fight mostly between Clark supporters and Dean supporters)

2002: Fallout from Democratic mid-term losses following 9/11 and invasion of Afghanistan.

...and I'm probably forgetting some.

-------------

IMO Democratic unity against Trump created one of the longest "peacetimes" ever on DU -- since 2016, with the exception of the 2020 Democratic Primary we've seen almost unprecedented unity. But that is not, and has never been, the "normal" state of affairs on DU. Just something to bear in mind when considering the current situation.

[ProfessorGAC]

7. Minor Error In 2008

You have "...to replace Trump."
I believe you meant Bush.
But, I think your list is solid.

[EarlG]

8. I sure did

Thank you for the correction!

[True Dough]

9. You sound like someone who knows what the heck

has been going on around here, Earl!

[True Dough]

12. Taking another look at your list

and I'm realizing what an outlier this Israel/Palestine war is. It's happening in 2023, an odd-numbered year. Your list is entirely even-numbered years due to the political cycle.

[Axelrods_Typewriter]

16. The 2016 primary was so effing messy.

In my circles the fighting between Bernie and Hillary supporters was almost as bad as the fighting between Trump supporters and Trump haters. I wanted to puke. I threw up my hands. I think it created a rift between people in the same way the orange idiot did.

[betsuni]

60. Trump haters had good reason to hate him, Hillary haters believed disinformation, conspiracy theories,

lies, easily debunked accusations that replaced her real career and personality with an evil corrupt fictional cartoon villain personally responsible for every bad thing since the '90s leading (the "Clinton Machine" ) a fictional evil corrupt primary-rigging neoliberal working/middle class-hating establishment Democratic Party same as Republicans. Spectacularly stupid. I couldn't believe people I knew fell for it!

Trump actually was and is an evil corrupt racist cartoonish villain, no need for any lies, all true. And now many people say "Hillary was right" and agree with her opinions, say she should've been president. Well, it's the same person now as in 2016. Suddenly she's not evil anymore?

And it will start up with Biden next year, targeted disinformation and lies.

[Tree Lady]

31. Your right on with all of it

I think the toughest was Obama/Clinton and Clinton/Bernie.

I worked on the Bernie campaign and felt like I had to be quiet for a long tme especially after she lost, all my friends and I voted for Hillary so the anger towards us was tough.

[Hekate]

33. It's quite the list

[TwilightZone]

37. Hmm, I've been here for all of those.

And had to take breaks after (and sometimes during) several of them. haha

I'd agree that unity is definitely not our default state.

Note: this is my second account. I found this place quite soon after it started through StumbleUpon. Found some interesting stuff through that app, all those years ago.

[Leith]

10. I was angriest about the fighting between

supporters of the Democratic candidates. I searched for hours for the video clip of a Bernie supporter throwing the chair. It was just a few hours after the accusation was made by Jon Ralston that it happened. Ralston did not witness the incident himself, but he took the word of one guy who was in the room and claimed that he saw it happen. There was never any proof. What some people called "throwing" was nothing more than lifting a chair a few inches and slamming it back down in the same place. There was shouting and angry words flying back and forth, but no tossed furniture that I could find.

Oh, yeah - I supported HRC, but I also supported Bernie. I would have been perfectly happy with either one as the official candidate.

Now we have a rift between Democrats over the Israel/Palestine fighting. According to some here (don't deny it) that anything less than 100% support for one side or the other makes you irredeemably racist, religionist, whatever-ist. I don't agree. My support is for any and all innocent victims - from concert goers to babies. They were all blasted to pieces by bombs. It doesn't matter who sent the bombs hurtling over to the other side. What matters is the victims who were maimed and murdered.

Below is a scene from Doctor Who. It doesn't matter which episode it came from or why the combatants had their hands hover over the launch buttons. All that matters is preventing the crime of war to continue indefinitely until the combatants get tired of killing and are ready to talk.

Let's set the coming decades of war and genocide aside. Let's jump to the final scene: talk.

[Delphinus]

13. Thank you

for sharing this profound clip.

[Fla_Democrat]

15. Breast feeding bull dogs at the Olive Garden eating blooming onions.

But I may not have been paying close attention.

[EX500rider]

30. ...while attempting to bomb the moon!.....lol

[EYESORE 9001]

17. Pit bulls

Circumcision

Olive Garden

Cornflake coating on chicken

It doesn’t really take much.

[Maru Kitteh]

22. I missed cornflake coating.

[xmas74]

27. I miss kudzu.

It's growing places!

[Wicked Blue]

41. It's going places

[xmas74]

45. Do you remember the map?

That was a legendary thread.

[Maru Kitteh]

46. .

Oh, ggrroooaaan . . . . and I mean that in the best possible way,

[xmas74]

47. That was the greatest Lounge thread

Of all time.

[Texasgal]

23. Don't forget the

Laura Brannigan dust up!

[xmas74]

28. Breastfeeding wars were

Pretty entertaining back in the day.

[underpants]

51. Oh god I remember that

[yardwork]

57. That stands out as one of the silliest DU flame wars ever.

[xmas74]

26. I didn't see this

And posted nearly the same but I included Laura Branigan.

[Kali]

35. broccoli stems, returning shopping carts,

checking receipts, some stupid television show about vampires, diabeedees/diabeatus, (Wilford Brimley), outdoor cats, using a vertical line of periods as a formatting technique...the Lounge can get pretty un-loungey sometimes!

[EYESORE 9001]

44. Oxford comma

[petronius]

49. Cheese sandwiches for schoolkids whose lunch bills aren't paid, posting

spoilers for the Olympics...

[xmas74]

24. Laura Branigan, cornflakes on fried chicken,

Olive Garden.

Just a few highlights.

[Dr. Strange]

56. Chick tracts on Halloween.

Good times, good times.

[xmas74]

59. I was just talking about Chick Tracts on Halloween

There was a local Evangelical church holding a Trunk or Treat and a coworker said she was taking her children. I told her to bring me the Chick Tracts so I can draw obscene doodles on them. She had no idea what I was saying.

I grew up Pentecostal. I'm very familiar with a good Chick Tract and I was right in the middle of that Lounge thread.

[roamer65]

25. It's a harbinger of how fucked the human race is in the coming years.

War and the climate crisis in tandem.

[Stuart G]

72. Climate was much, much worse in the 1950s & 1960s...

Many cities passed laws that outlawed, coal burning, over time autos were cleaned of their emissions.
Air clean laws were passed by many cities. Nuclear Power was reduced due to "Four Mile Island" break down.
(and many, many other improvements in the climate) Where I lived in South Chicago, we often got bad air
from the steal mills 15 miles away.
...........So many improvements in climate laws. The air is measured for pollution by the federal government........
...........There are such things as.........."Bad Air Days"
........... Public Schools cannot heat with coal... (they were the last to follow the rules)...
.......... Cars are much cleaner than they were in the 50s and 60s....In fact it is the law that they are clean of pollutants.
.......... Cars are also much safer with the Air Bags and required seat belts in front and back
........... People live longer and better due to medical improvements..
........... Diets are better now. (People have a lot of choices these days as far as decent food is concerned. )

and ...............MORE AND MORE AND MORE, AND MORE AND MORE!

AND..............GUNS MIGHT BE CONTROLLED MORE AND MORE TOO?????

[tiredtoo]

29. The Primaries

I got put in DU jail during a primary. Pissed off the wrong people with my opinions.

[Docreed2003]

36. "Door Buzzards"

'Tis the season

[róisín_dubh]

65. ...

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 that was epic

[Stinky The Clown]

38. I only recall one that felt like it would tear DU apart. 2004 Primary.

I recall it because we were Clarkies and the "enemy" was the Dean contingent.

For the record, I hold zero grudge against the Deanna's, and indeed count many of them as friends.

Looking at EarlG's list (above) I don't see any of them as worse than 2004, but that is because I didn't engage in the controversies. Following that decision, I am not engaging in the current debate. I have strong feelings about what's going on, but I will keep them to myself. My opinion will add nothing to the debate or change a single mind. So i will continue to be an asshole like always, but about subjects other than the current situation in the Middle East;.

[Stardust Mirror]

43. We have to argue because we care

We are actually trying to accomplish things and have different opinions on the best ways to do so.

The GQP/fascists don't argue because they agree on goals and methods:
1. Gain/retain power
2. Suppress voting
3. Cut taxes for the wealthy
4. Abolish regulations
5. Subjugate people of color and women
6. Exploit labor and natural resources to the limit
7. Regulate morals for "others" while doing absolutely anything they want personally
8. Bribes, corruption, backroom deals

I'm sure I left out some biggies but you get the picture.

Seems like every committee in the history of the left has been riddled with dissension, hopefully a problem we'll figure out before it's too late.

[Journeyman]

53. The debate over whether BushCo caused the 2004 Christmas Tsunami was intense . . .

got so bad, Skinner threatened to kick out anyone who posted anything that claimed the tsunami was man-made.

Ah, yes. Good times.

[RainCaster]

54. Crunchy vs Creamy peanut butter

It's all about the red or blue lid.

[True Dough]

55. I'd refuse to choose!

There are occasions when I prefer smooth peanut butter and other times when I reach for the crunchy. Both are good!

[ecstatic]

58. I've never seen a topic as divisive as I/P is right now

The broad brushing, stereotypes, name-calling and in some cases, blind hatred, is very upsetting.

[Rincewind]

62. Whether or not

Olive Garden is an Italian restaurant.

[Kaleva]

66. How many DUers are actually involved in the I/P debate?

I make a comment here and there but I'm not emotionally invested in the argument .

[yardwork]

67. There really isn't much of a debate, in my opinion.

In fact, I think this has been a pretty calm discussion, compared to previous DU situations. This isn't even close to a flame war.

There was a troll causing some trouble but since he/she was shown the door, things have been pretty reasonable, imo. And there are lots of busy threads on other topics.

On a scale of 1-10, one being 100% DU agreement (never attained) and 10 being the 2016 primaries, I'd give this a 3. Almost everybody here agrees that the war is terrible and innocent people are being killed on all sides.

[Kaleva]

70. Maybe sometime if I'm bored, I'll tally the members commenting

on the I/P threads here in GD and total up their posts in those threads.

[JanMichael]

69. Kudzu

[mcar]

71. 2016 primary

I was called antisemitic for not supporting Bernie. (Not refighting that primary, just stating a fact.)

People left this board after the primary because admins wouldn't let them call HRC the "c" word. They formed another, now defunct (I believe), board so they could trash the Democratic nominee in the most vile way imaginable.