Sun Nov 18, 2012, 06:40 AM
HiPointDem (20,729 posts)
Whose sacrifice? The So-Called Grand Bargain Would Fleece the Middle Class
So now that the election is done at last, we can get down to the hard work of striking a “grand bargain” on the budget by cutting spending and raising taxes, and thus avoid the looming “fiscal cliff...” The next media pundit who calls for shared sacrifice must describe in detail just what he or she is prepared to give up...Right now, “shared sacrifice” means that many wealthy, powerful people share the opinion that the rest of us should sacrifice.
Mr. Friedman, for instance, calls every few minutes or so for President Obama to “endorse the Bowles-Simpson plan” for closing the budget gap. In fact, it’s a stretch to say that any such “plan” even exists. The Bowles-Simpson committee that Mr. Obama set up never actually managed to reach an agreement. Instead, the two committee chairmen, former Clinton chief of staff Erskine Bowles, a North Carolina Democrat, and former Republican senator and professional loose-cannon Alan Simpson of Wyoming came up with a plan between them that they trumpeted—with the help of a fawning media—as a great, bipartisan accomplishment. It is, instead, a prescription for hunting down every last remaining vestige of the middle class in this country and beating it to death with a stick. Under the Bowles-Simpson plan to reduce the deficit, the top federal income tax rate would be dropped to 24 percent, the top corporate rate would be cut from 35 percent to 26 percent, and almost all deductions would be eliminated, including those for home mortgage interest, and employer health-care plans. Meanwhile, military pensions, student loan subsidies, Medicare and Social Security would be slashed, while other revenue would come from new, regressive levies such as a 15 percent increase on gas taxes... The grand bargain is in fact a grand and arbitrary cancellation of the social covenant that’s brought this country unprecedented prosperity and social justice over the last 80 years, and it’s being pressed by a small coterie of wealthy, overwhelmingly white men who will themselves contribute about the equivalent of a working person’s laundry money for the week...No one voted for it, and not even most political activists understand fully what it means or how likely it is to pass... http://observer.com/2012/11/whose-sacrifice-is-it-anyway-the-so-called-grand-bargain-would-fleece-the-middle-class/
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22 replies, 3826 views
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Author | Time | Post |
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HiPointDem | Nov 2012 | OP |
HockeyMom | Nov 2012 | #1 | |
Fumesucker | Nov 2012 | #2 | |
plethoro | Nov 2012 | #9 | |
graham4anything | Nov 2012 | #3 | |
Fumesucker | Nov 2012 | #4 | |
mathematic | Nov 2012 | #10 | |
Fumesucker | Nov 2012 | #11 | |
graham4anything | Nov 2012 | #13 | |
Fumesucker | Nov 2012 | #15 | |
graham4anything | Nov 2012 | #17 | |
woo me with science | Nov 2012 | #5 | |
Lars39 | Nov 2012 | #6 | |
appal_jack | Nov 2012 | #18 | |
DirkGently | Nov 2012 | #19 | |
newspeak | Nov 2012 | #20 | |
leftstreet | Nov 2012 | #22 | |
daybranch | Nov 2012 | #7 | |
plethoro | Nov 2012 | #8 | |
JDPriestly | Nov 2012 | #12 | |
graham4anything | Nov 2012 | #14 | |
Horse with no Name | Nov 2012 | #16 | |
gravity | Nov 2012 | #21 |
Response to HiPointDem (Original post)
Sun Nov 18, 2012, 08:32 AM
HockeyMom (14,337 posts)
1. We could have just elected MIT ROMNEY
if we wanted the Middle Class screwed. What don't they understand about this?
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Response to HiPointDem (Original post)
Sun Nov 18, 2012, 08:42 AM
Fumesucker (45,851 posts)
2. What part of mission accomplished do you fail to understand?
Because for the one percent this is indeed mission accomplished.
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Response to Fumesucker (Reply #2)
Sun Nov 18, 2012, 09:51 AM
plethoro (594 posts)
9. It was a rigged game all along. There was no "our side". And
the folks that still don't understand it, will this time.
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Response to HiPointDem (Original post)
Sun Nov 18, 2012, 08:55 AM
graham4anything (11,464 posts)
3. more anti-Obama hyperbole. Left wing extremists are as bad as rightwing ones.
Lincoln
FDR Johnson Obama all four needed and got some votes on the other side to move forward instead of remain static or backwards the above is all hyperbole and based on nothing near fact |
Response to graham4anything (Reply #3)
Sun Nov 18, 2012, 08:59 AM
Fumesucker (45,851 posts)
4. Yes, and a progressive tax structure is socialism!
Not to mention that both sides do it.
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Response to Fumesucker (Reply #4)
Sun Nov 18, 2012, 10:04 AM
mathematic (1,367 posts)
10. Eliminating these tax deductions is a progressive change to the tax code
Sometimes I think Democrats only oppose eliminating these deductions because Republicans have done such a good job of spinning "broadening the base" as "tax the moochers" that they actually believe that that is what these sorts of changes do. (Republicans spin it this way so they don't lose their voters).
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Response to mathematic (Reply #10)
Sun Nov 18, 2012, 10:14 AM
Fumesucker (45,851 posts)
11. Mine was an argument from another thread
One about the regressive nature of sales taxes, the poster I replied to was cheering on a boost in sales tax and decided that I was a socialist because I wasn't all that thrilled about it and preferred a graduated income tax.
This poster never saw a tax on the 99% he didn't like, or certainly gives that impression. |
Response to Fumesucker (Reply #11)
Sun Nov 18, 2012, 11:16 AM
graham4anything (11,464 posts)
13. you of course forgot the remainder of my reply- ZERO TAXES FOR THE FIRST $75,000 MADE, with
coupons to pay for the tax.
And yes, the internet should be taxed as if one goes into Macy's and buys it there. Fair for the workers of the brick stores to have internet sales taxed as such. and like the bozos who complain about taxes, yet during Sandy here, couldn't wait for the towns to fix their lights/streets and all. Guess who pays for that? WE DO and I gladly want my taxes to shovel the snow or put the electricity back on. And of course the rates will go up after, what do you expect? In France you pay more upfront, then when you are ill, you pay zero. And your insurance can't be cancelled due to illness, as you don't have insurance there. Just great healthcare. A penny more taxed now, is paid back a zillion times over when you most need it. |
Response to graham4anything (Reply #13)
Sun Nov 18, 2012, 11:31 AM
Fumesucker (45,851 posts)
15. We both know what you wrote
I was pointing out the regressive nature of sales taxes and you called me a socialist.
Major slip on DU, socialist isn't quite the slur it is in some other places. |
Response to Fumesucker (Reply #15)
Sun Nov 18, 2012, 11:45 AM
graham4anything (11,464 posts)
17. you lie! I love socialism. REAL socialism. Get your facts straight or stop lying.
you have me confused with probably an NRA fan.
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Response to graham4anything (Reply #3)
Sun Nov 18, 2012, 09:14 AM
woo me with science (32,139 posts)
5. Predictable bullshit Third Way propaganda. You want FACTS?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=1798380
http://www.businessinsider.com/what-wall-street-protesters-are-so-angry-about-2011-10?op=1 Here it is. The bid for compromise. What a ridiculous, reeking load of nonsense. Democrats are lectured for being one-sided and "purist," as though WE are the ones insisting on getting our way, all the time, with no compromise....when the truth is that this country has been dragged *so far* to the right over the past 30 years that: *our middle class has been virtually obliterated through policy ______________________________ We have received no compromise. We have been looted, again and again and again, with no end in sight. And still the message comes, like a drumbeat: You have not compromised enough. You are being a purist. It doesn't fly anymore. In fact, it has reached the point of ludicrousness. ________________________________________________________ *Much here taken directly from this article at Business Insider, perhaps the best summary I have seen of the looting of America: http://www.businessinsider.com/what-wall-street-protesters-are-so-angry-about-2011-10?op=1 There is much, much more there. I strongly recommend that every DUer click through the whole thing again for a reminder of how how much "compromise" WE have received from the ones who are looting us blind: ![]() |
Response to woo me with science (Reply #5)
Sun Nov 18, 2012, 09:36 AM
Lars39 (25,973 posts)
6. Thanks for that link!
Response to woo me with science (Reply #5)
Sun Nov 18, 2012, 12:09 PM
appal_jack (3,813 posts)
18. Spot-on woo, k&r, n/t.
Response to woo me with science (Reply #5)
Sun Nov 18, 2012, 12:14 PM
DirkGently (12,151 posts)
19. These are the facts, Jack +++
Response to woo me with science (Reply #5)
Sun Nov 18, 2012, 01:05 PM
newspeak (4,847 posts)
20. and, i might add the globalists
who have been repeating for years that our wages and living standards must come down; while these ceos and corporations have seen unprecedented profits.
why does our standard of living have to go down? those free trade treaties should be fair trade treaties and allow citizens from all countries to have a decent living standard. instead, the already wealthy and getting wealthier, just want the whole world as their personal playground with no regulations and no labor laws. and to provide it, any greedy dictator will do. |
Response to woo me with science (Reply #5)
Sun Nov 18, 2012, 01:47 PM
leftstreet (35,383 posts)
22. +1
Response to HiPointDem (Original post)
Sun Nov 18, 2012, 09:45 AM
daybranch (1,309 posts)
7. Is this the cause of it all?
So much is written about our politicians indebtedness and desire to please big money donors and ho0w much super pacs spent in this election but why do we want to apply the solutions to prevent the undesired outcome, would it not be alot more productive to examine the processes by which the Federal government is corrupted and do something about that where it occurs most early in the process rather than trying to deal with the horses after they have left the barn. In other words why are we always responding to crises created by those who are supposed to be representing us and spending billions of dollars and millions of volunteer hours defnding the coutry from those who are supposed to represent the people. I believe the first step in protecting our people and American values lies in forcing so called representatives to do as we wish , not just as big donors desire. We must do this by installing fair redistricting within any and all states. Until then we are screwed. Lets quit dealing with symptoms of the disease and fight back now.
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Response to daybranch (Reply #7)
Sun Nov 18, 2012, 09:49 AM
plethoro (594 posts)
8. This is simply more talk. We are nearing rakes and shovels time........nft
dddddd
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Response to HiPointDem (Original post)
Sun Nov 18, 2012, 10:40 AM
JDPriestly (57,936 posts)
12. We don't need a grand bargain.
We need to enforce tax laws on the rich, expose the loopholes they use (such as those Romney exploited) and eliminate them one by one.
That would take care of our deficit over time. |
Response to HiPointDem (Original post)
Sun Nov 18, 2012, 11:17 AM
graham4anything (11,464 posts)
14. I would raise the capital gains tax, and the estate tax. Only the rich are mostly affected by it.
and make the first $75,000 tax free
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Response to HiPointDem (Original post)
Sun Nov 18, 2012, 11:33 AM
Horse with no Name (33,948 posts)
16. I'm sorry. I have been sacrificing
while they have had the breaks.
It can still be shared sacrifice to point out it is now THEIR turn since we have already had ours. |
Response to HiPointDem (Original post)
Sun Nov 18, 2012, 01:39 PM
gravity (4,157 posts)
21. The Bowles-Simpson plan is dead
It never had a chance begin with so can we stop the handwringing.
Obama and the Democrats have the leverage during the fiscal cliff negotiations and what is likely to get done is the most political appealing options. Raising taxes on the rich and maybe some minor budget cuts in government. There is real stuff to worry about like unemployment benefits extensions, but they are not going to completely dismantle Medicare and Social Security over a phony crisis. Just keep our expectations realistic. |