Like many DU'ers, my father was a WWII vet. I just can not imagine the current political climate happening while he ...

[A HERETIC I AM]

was alive.

I say that because so many of his peers have now passed away - the "Greatest Generation" as they have been referred to, fought AGAINST fascism. Way too many people these days have no idea the dangers that await, should we allow what happened in Germany in the 1930's to happen here.

My dad was born in 1925, and turned 16 exactly two weeks after Pearl Harbor. Like many tens of thousands of boys of his day, he lied about his age in order to join the military in early 1942, in his case, the US Navy. He served aboard a Hospital ship in the Pacific for several years and was anchored off Ireland on D-Day, his ship receiving hundreds of wounded in the days after and making several subsequent trips to Norfolk in the ensuing weeks.

He was called back to active duty during the Korean war and was a field medic with the Marine Corps. He was recruited by the CIA not long after he was discharged from the Marines and spent 25 years with "The Company", being stationed numerous places around the world, 5 of which during my lifetime.

He was what we would refer these days to as a Middle of the Road conservative, I suppose. He voted for both Nixon and Reagan twice, but was, as far as I know, staunchly pro-choice. A lifelong Episcopalian and member of the Masonic Order, attaining "Worshipful Master" at his lodge in SW Florida a couple years before he died in August of 2000. He was a rationalist, frugal and a practical man, a product of the Great Depression.

I just can not for the life of me conceive of a man like Donald Fucking Trumpy being able to rise to the levels that he has, to command such a rabid following a mere 25 years ago, much less when my dad was in his 40's or fifties. He would have been seen for the lying, cheating con man he is by my dad (as well as yours, I'm sure, dear reader), not as some conservative savior. There is simply no way that generation, a group who we have been steadily losing at several thousand per day, would allow us to even come close to the prospect of Trumpy gaining the office of the President a second time.


I fear for our future should this march toward authoritarianism and fascism continue.

[Diamond_Dog]

1. KandR

Great post.

[Sneederbunk]

2. My father too.

I always think of all the soldiers who came home from WWII and were able to cope.

[Cartoonist]

3. My dad was a Pearl Harbor veteran.

He became Archie Bunker.

[A HERETIC I AM]

8. What would his opinion of Trumpy have been?

I doubt even the character of Archie would have been a fan of Trumpy.

[Cartoonist]

36. He supported Nixon

And he was a racist pos. He only got worse.

[KPN]

4. Yes, hard to imagine. At the same time, they are the generation

that put Reagan in the WH — and it’s been somewhat downhill ever since. So there’s that. Reagan was a con man in his own way — welfare queen, governments the problem, trickle down prosperity. Our parents generation opened the gate … and it’s never been fully closed again.

[A HERETIC I AM]

9. I agree....

but my dad told me he liked Reagan because he balanced the California budget when he was governor and that's why he liked him.

But as I said, he was a rationalist, and if we sat down and discussed how bad Reagan was for the average American, my pop would lilely agree with that perspective.

Our parents generation opened the gate … and it’s never been fully closed again.

Absolutely, no argument. My dad was no saint, not by any stretch and neither were the rest of the men and women of his day. I was just trying to point out that I think they would have seen right through Trumpy.

[OMGWTF]

20. Reagan also eliminated free state colleges in CA.

Reagan was the beginning of the end of the middle class.

[A HERETIC I AM]

22. I will not argue that point.

I mentioned Reagan in my OP only to illustrate where my dad was on the political spectrum. He wasn't a far right conservative. For example, he thought both McCarthy and Goldwater were nut jobs. He personally knew of numerous people in the national security and intelligence segments of the government whose careers were ruined by McCarthy. As I said in my OP, he was hired into the CIA in the 1950's, at the height of the "Red Scare".

[appalachiablue]

47. +1 Reaganomics and road to decline, the Gipper

[Attilatheblond]

53. Reagan also turned people out of state mental hospitals, resulting in them living on the streets

He shifted a lot of tax burden from the state to the counties, resulting in big property tax increases to maintain essential services and schools. THAT resulted in Prop 13, which ended up hobbling local governments, impoverishing schools and services to needy people (like those formerly in State Hospitals, many of whom were also veterans).

Reagan was, indeed, a con man, and he vilified labor unions, convincing big chunks of the population to attack them, which allowed for anti-union legislation in many states. The result of that lessening of workers' power to negotiate REALLY spelled the end of upward mobility. Oddly, that bit of economic skulduggery resulted in less taxes paid into public coffers and more people, especially women and children, in need. Can't prove it, but the economic damage he did to working class families likely contributed to more divorce/broken homes, leaving even more women and children in poverty.

Increased poverty results in more crime and addiction. Then the wealthy insisted on more/tougher law enforcement. The militarization of local police departments was assured. We all know where that has led in our (intentionally) divided society.

A lot of workers, approaching retirement age, were tossed out of jobs just shy of being able to get the pensions they paid into. Result: More poverty among the elderly who had saved the world with their efforts in WWII and after a civilian lifetime working to make this nation the economic power that was the envy of the world. Many of the laid off workers became unable to help their kids with college. Less education means another hit to upward mobility. The offspring of those people learned that trusting an employer was likely a fools errand. People became less engaged with their work, pensions became few and far between. Employment stability became a myth.

Reagan was the beginning of the end for American greatness. The battle cry of 'greed is good' allowed for the destruction of a robust economy. What trickled down under and after Reagan was poverty, despair, and economic inequality of disastrous levels.

Don't even get me started with what his henchmen did to broadcasting! Suffice to say, there would be no FOX news or the level of right wing hate radio we now deal with without the help of Reagan, the poster boy for the Gilded Era II.

Yeah, it was sad that so many of the Greatest Generation fell victim to the Reagan Con. But then, they had a lot of propaganda heaped on them, so I will cut them some slack. We can't afford that level of naivety ever again, which is probably why thems-that-gots-so-much are so determined to poison minds against education, particularly real history as they feed our fear and bigotry to keep us battling each other instead of eating the rich.

[blm]

5. My WW2 dad would spot Trump as a "BSer" and say so

with no equivocation. If he was at his favorite beer joint on a Friday night with friends, he’d no doubt label Trump a “Bullshitter” or a “Bullshit Artist”. He was a politically moderate, working class Irish Catholic.

[A HERETIC I AM]

23. This.

The point I was trying to convey.

Thanks.

[pfitz59]

6. Death of 'the fairness doctrine'

and rise of hate radio and Faux News.

[A HERETIC I AM]

24. Yup.

Absolutely contributed to where we are now, no doubt about it.

[Probatim]

7. My dad was in the Navy and got out during the run-up to Vietman.

He happily jumped on the trump train and stayed alive just long enough to see him elected - but not long enough to see him take the oath. My grandfather and two of my dad's uncles fought in WWII.

My wife's grandfather fought in the South Pacific during WWII and survived a jump on Corregidor. All three of his sons were happy to vote for trump twice.

One generation from a war against tyranny and all of these men actively voted against a democracy - and several were mad enough that Biden won that they stopped talking to family members.

Someone posted earlier that 40 years of hate radio has taken its toll on this country. I would agree.

[A HERETIC I AM]

11. Well...shit!

Now you've got me rethinking the wisdom of writing my OP!


You're right though; The advent of the right wing media and 20 plus years of Limbaugh did some serious damage to the way the population thinks of how this country should work.

[Probatim]

14. Don't blame me lol - you can look at MrScorpio's post from this morning.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100218430473

He touched on an idea that's been running through my head for the last 20 years or so.

An angry and motivated electorate who's happy to burn the country to the ground to keep the least among in the position - or worse - and often to their own detriment.

One poster commented on hate radio. I agree that's a big part of it. Hate radio gave them an outlet for their rage and taught them to vote against their own self-interests.

[Tansy_Gold]

33. One of my favorite sources. . . .

. . . .for Quote for the Day over on the Stock Market Watch thread is David Neiwert's The Eliminationists: How Hate Talk Radicalized the American Right. It's terrifying but well worth the read.

[Boomerproud]

19. What happened to some of your family members breaks my heart.

[Probatim]

27. Me too. The worst part in all of this is they were fairly normal people.

It wasn't until the Clinton era that things went to shit.

The funny part is that my old man wasn't too educated and was raised in the south - it wasn't a giant leap to see him embrace trump - but my father-in-law is a smart guy. Too smart to fall for this horseshit.

You can't have any sort of conversation without politics or religion sinking in. It makes it difficult to say anything to him and I end up not engaging him when he's talking to me. At family events I'll sit off to the side and step in to rescue other family members. My son-in-law is a good kid and gets trapped a lot - so I'm rescuing him all the time.

I wish there was a simple solution for this.

[mahina]

10. Peace to him and gratitude.

They really did save the world

[A HERETIC I AM]

12. Thanks. (Edited to add video link)

He would have been 98 in 42 days.

BTW, I saw this really interesting archival footage of an interview with Eisenhower done at a cemetary in Normandy.

I'll go try and find it.


I found this. 1964 CBS piece by Walter Cronkite. I think the bit I was thinking of is in here, but I haven't watched this entire hour and 20 minute vid. I will, however!

?si=UcL95zaGxC6GCuQ3

[LiberalFighter]

13. We have about 200 million more people in the USA then back around 1939.

They didn't have cable television or social media.

Madison Square Garden held a Nazi rally.

Ford supported Hitler.

Factors made it more difficult for it to spread back then.

[onecaliberal]

15. My father too, he was never a republican and never voted for one.

everything he told me about republicans was true then and more so now.

[Fiendish Thingy]

16. There were dozens of Nazi sympathizers in congress in the 40's

And Henry Ford and Charles Lindbergh were the public faces of a large “America First” isolationist movement.

(See Rachel Maddow’s “Ultra” podcast and new book “Prequel” for more details)

[2naSalit]

17. Mine too...

He was a sub-chaser in the Navy. I grew up around WWII vets then Korean War vets and Vietnam vets as I became an adult.

We all knew what fascism was, what it looked like and that we were duty bound to fight it, especially in our now front yard.

[A HERETIC I AM]

26. Are you sure we aren't related?!?

LOL....

We all knew what fascism was, what it looked like and that we were duty bound to fight it, especially in our now front yard.

Boy, ain't that the truth.

I hope you're well, sweetheart.

Stay warm this winter.

[2naSalit]

30. Well...

I know my dad "slept around" a lot!

It was tacit knowledge. And I meant our own front yard.

[Irish_Dem]

18. A US POTUS who is a known serial rapist, tax cheat, steals classified docs for our enemies,

tries to overthrow the US government and over turn an election.

Would not have happened on our parents' watch.

[A HERETIC I AM]

25. My entire point.

Thanks.

[Irish_Dem]

39. Yep I often think about the same thing.

My father was career USAF, flew combat in three wars, including WWII.
He would be furious at what is happening now.
I am glad he is not here to see it.
Everything he risked his life for is fading away.

Your post is a good point, a sad one, but right on.

[hibbing]

21. Sad how many insurrectionists are veterans or LEO n/t

[keithbvadu2]

28. With Tuberville denying military promotions after Pearl Harbor.

Today he is bucking for the Order of Lenin.

Back then, the Iron Cross?

[Tansy_Gold]

29. Mine, too

Born 1926. I have a photo of him in boot camp 1944, when he would have been 18. Just a GI, never got above corporal. He was among the first to reach Europe after the war was over, took part in the early aftermath. He never spoke of what he saw.

I looked at that picture again just now and think of our grandchildren, the great-grandchildren of my dad's and uncles' generation, who are now coming of age. It is terrifying, and I cannot put my hatred of the RWNJs into words fit even for the high tolerance level of DU.

[BoomaofBandM]

31. My dad was also born in 1925 and enlisted at 17.

PT boat in the navy. He was liberal, an educator. He would not approve of what is going on now.

[elleng]

32. Thanks for the thought-provoking piece, Heretic.

My father was born in 1913, and served in the Navy, @ Pearl Harbor 'after' the Japanese event.

He was a lawyer, a legal officer, and had the unenviable job of reviewing mail to determine if rules were being followed. I regret I knew too little about goings-on to have been able deeply to discuss major issues with him.

One of my uncles met his future wife when he served in the Army somewhere in Europe, and she (Aunt Marie) cared for him as an Army nurse. He lost much of his hearing at the time. Aunt Marie told some funny/wild stories!

I do recall my family's disappointment that Adlai Stevenson lost the presidency to Dwight Eisenhower, so strong Dems all, the beginning of my political education.

Dad's birth anniversary is coming up shortly, so will be thinking of him again soon.

[progressoid]

34. A distant friend opined on this very thing when the orange anus was a couple years into his reign of errors.

She, like us, is a Democrat. Her father also fought is WWII and was old school Republican. She wondered (via a Facebook post) what he would have thought of what the "Grand Old Party" had become.

I commented that this was nothing like the party of Nixon and Reagan - although they helped birth this monstrosity. Needless to say today's Republicans would tar and feather someone like Eisenhower.

Her Republican family and friends thought she was over-reacting.

[A HERETIC I AM]

42. "Needless to say today's Republicans would tar and feather someone like Eisenhower."

Boy, ain't that the truth.

Rachel Maddow said, when asked what her political platform would look like, to just read the Republican platform the year Eisenhower got elected. Pro Union, Pro-Choice (as much as it was an issue in the late 50's), etc. etc.

[Diamond_Dog]

35. To all the folks whose parents fought in WW2

And whose sibs or other relatives happily voted for the orange pus bag

I would like to remind them that the orange pus bag called the soldiers buried in the French cemetery “losers and suckers” and couldn’t be bothered to visit because he was afraid of getting his hair-do wet.

[marybourg]

37. I'm old enough that it was my (much older than me) late DH who served in WWII.

He lived to see tRump elected and was heartsick about it, all the more because he had long been a staunch supporter of Hilary. Having lived through the war, I was glad that he did not have to live through the pandemic and the insurrection.

[EmmaLee E]

38. My husband is a 98 year old veteran of WWII

Who went on to have a career in civil rights.
In 2008 he gloried in Obama's election as "vindicating my life's work."

Unfortunately he is failing and does not comprehend much of politics anymore.

Perhaps his incomprehension is fortunate, because being fully aware would bring him only despair.

I will just emphasize what others are saying, that the WWII vets were the true Anti-fas.
That the wackaloons marching to the Trumpet have no idea of what their fathers (and mothers) went through.

[Irish_Dem]

40. Yes. Our parents risked their lives to save democracy.

And now we see so many Americans willing to throw it all away.

Thanks for posting.

Welcome to DU!

[A HERETIC I AM]

41. Thank you for sharing that

I'm sure your husband has some fascinating stories.

May he spend his remaining days in peace and comfort.

[progressoid]

46. Yes, I think you're right. It is fortunate for him.

The very things they fought are being embraced again. One tries not to think about it too much. It's quite disturbing.

[elocs]

43. My father was born in '21, joined the Army before the war, was a heavy machine gunner starting in North Africa

into Sicily, then to England to train for D-Day landing on Omaha Beach, fighting his way through France into Germany where he was wounded for the first time in September and again in November which ended the war for him.
These millions of maga Trump cult supporters have always been here but Trump gave them permission to come out into the open and be proud of their ignorance and hate.

[hunter]

44. My grandparents were all World War II.

My dad and father-in-law were Korea. It was just dumb luck they missed the bloodiest stuff. My father-in-law was corpsman assigned to the Marines, my dad was a nearsighted Radar O'Reilly Army medical clerk.

My father-in-law landed as a guinea pig in atomic bomb testing and got to witness a nuclear explosion up close and march across the desert stuff burning all around as the mushroom cloud rose up into the sky.

Neither one of our dads has any tolerance for fascists or modern day republicans. They did not vote for Reagan or any republican since. My wife's mom hated Trump with a burning passion and was never shy about expressing it.

My grandfather was an Army Air Force officer in World War II. He never talked about that. Later he was an engineer for the Apollo Project. He'd always talk about that. Bits of his metal took men to the moon and back. He was proud of that. Defeating the Nazis and Imperial Japan was an obvious duty, something that had to be done. Landing men on the moon was a glorious adventure.

During the war my grandfather had picked up, with no explanation, a knack for metals that were then considered "exotic." I suspect some of that was a very dirty business.

I was campaigning for Carter so I never got a clear view of my grandfather's opinions about Reagan, none that he cared to express. I think he abstained from voting for Carter or Reagan. My grandma, a Hollywood insider, considered Reagan a creep.

Sigh. I'd always respected my grandfather as an intellectual and religious heretic, but he was unable to overcome his White Wild West heritage when I first introduced him to my future wife. He called her a "Mexican girl" and men in his family simply did not marry Mexican girls, especially those of the darker Native American sort. He chose not to attend our wedding. To his credit he got over it, but it's possible that was only because she's better at math and science than he was.

[Kennah]

45. My Grandmother's second husband was in the Army Air Corps in North Africa

I believe he worked on bomber ground crew. I knew him as my Grandfather and didn't find out until after he passed that we weren't related by blood. He and my Grandmother were virulent racists, but I cannot help but think they would view Trump as a buffoon. They both work for the NSA, and they loved MASH for its lampooning of military officers and military bureaucracy. It would be an understatement to say they were odd ducks.

My Dad was born in '33, so he was 12 when WWII ended. He remembered the times. He and my Mom hated Republicans--since the era of Goldwater and Ike. My Dad probably had heard of and read about Hoover's impact on working people. As much as he disliked Nixon, my Dad would often say how poorly Nixon handled Watergate and how if he'd just said he made a mistake and was sorry, he would not have had to resign. While he and my Mom disliked Nixon, they hated Reagan.

My Dad passed in 2013. By 2016, my Mom probably wasn't full aware of many things. Both would view Trump as a buffoon.

My RW, asshat, racist grandparents and my center-left parents, all would view Trump as a buffoon in his private citizen life, and as a threat to democracy as President.

[appalachiablue]

48. K/R Great post!

[Bundbuster]

49. My lifelong republican mother voted for Obama twice

after seeing the evil of cheney, bush, rove, et al. When she voted for Obama in 2012, at age 100, she said to me "I'm afraid they're going to kill him," they being the Tea Baggers, later morphing into Magats. She died just in time to miss The Slobfather's nomination. She detested him since witnessing his rise in the 1980's and '90's.

Yes, there were some Nazi sympathizers here in the 1940's and '50's, but the vast majority of that population would have recoiled in horror at the thought of the orange anus holding any public office. Hate radio & TV, the internet, and social media turned millions into zombies.

[JackCoop]

50. My Dad Too

Marine B-25 Bomber pilot in the South Pacific in WWII.

Forward Radar Installation during Korean War.

[usonian]

51. The magats are following the fascist playbook.

But Hitler did not have a foreign dictator paying for the fifth column in his country, as we do now.

Same playbook. Different strategies.

Internally, a whole lot reads the same.

[liberal N proud]

52. It's the very thing our fathers fought against

I am at least glad my father doesn’t have to watch what going down

[Golden Raisin]

54. My father was a virulent anti-Fascist (Mom too).

They’d both be turning in their graves today, as would my High School Civics/American Government Class teacher. My dad had an interesting service in WWII as a member of Glenn Miller’s Army Air Force Orchestra.