It's official ...

[Marcus IM]

Link to tweet

[claudette]

1. What a

sad disgrace

[anciano]

3. Agreed....

the hate that humans can muster for each other is disgraceful indeed. And humans are supposed to be the "superior" species....

[Butterflylady]

45. Yes, but man is the most dangerous of all.

[claudette]

54. Even

sadder that some wouldn’t believe it.

[Magoo48]

60. If all the animals got together, who would be voted off the planet first?

[paleotn]

53. And a complete load of.bullshit.

[Cha]

2. Ukraine Cares About Her People.. Fucking Hamas Does NOT.

Link to tweet

[Marcus IM]

4. If that is Hamas' strategy, it seems like it's working. It begs the question ...

Why ingratiate them?

Just a straight up question on strategy to win/lose public support.

[yagotme]

6. Two choices for Israel:

1. Attack. Current strategy employed. Many don't like it/like way it's being implemented. "World opinion", and all.

2. Do nothing. Hamas will attack again, and probably in a worse way, because they got away with it the 1st time.

Either method suits Hamas. #1 turns the world against Israel, because everyone ignores the fact that they started it. #2 allows for them to kill more Jews. Win-win for them.

[malaise]

9. Nothing justifies this response

Eff Hamas
Israel is committing war crimes, just like Russia in Ukraine, just like the US in Iraq and Afghanistan, just like the Germans in WW2 and all the military powers who like to preach to others about human rights.

It’s hilarious in a sick way to watch folks condemn Russia while supporting this genocide.

[Beastly Boy]

10. Ukraine is killing civilians inside Russia.

You know why nobody calls it a war crime? Ukraine doesn't target civilians.

It's in the Geneva Conventions. Military targets are a fair game in war, and it is on Russia to keep their civilians away from military targets.

Russia is killing Ukrainians in Ukraine. You know why it is a war crime? Russia targets civilians.

One can be equally outraged at all civilian deaths, but it is on them to understand the difference. If one doesn't, they are enabling war criminals in their own small way, and that is also on them.

[Army Brat]

14. I'd call dropping a bomb on a refugee camp and killing 50 people deliberate

though done under the guise of "we thought a terrorist was there."

[totodeinhere]

22. It has been documented that Hamas fighters hide among innocent civilians.

Israel must kill those Hamas fighters before they kill more Israelis. What else would you have Israel do? And when civilians get caught in the crossfire that is the fault of Hamas. The attack on the refugee camp would not have happened in Hamas had not attacked on 10/7.

[Army Brat]

28. Human shields are protected like any other civilian

under international law. The attack must be proportionate. Killing 50 civilians and wounding 150 more because you hope to kill a militant doesn't sound proportionate to me.

[yagotme]

32. Human shields are protected in the way that the country the shields are a member of,

hold the responsibility for their deaths. Israel is not holding these people in their places. Hamas is. Therefore, Hamas is committing war crimes.

[Army Brat]

33. Yes, just as Israel is

Using human shields is a war crime. A disproportionate attack on civilians is too, even if they are human shields. Two parties can both be guilty.

[yagotme]

36. I don't understand your reply.

Israel is not using civilians as human shields.

Yes, just as Israel is

I agreed using human shields is a war crime. Not sure why you re-stated it. Need a cite for "disproportionate attack". Defining this term has been an uphill battle, as no iron-clad numbers have been presented.

Yes, 2 parties can be guilty. Seems some people here think Israel is guiltier than Hamas, when the reverse is true, if one actually looks at the war crime specs from the UN.

[Army Brat]

40. I meant Israel is also commiting war crimes

not that Israel is also using human shields. Killing 50 civilians in hopes of killing one militant seems disproportionate to me.There is no absolute mathematical calculation.

[yagotme]

46. OK, glad to clear that one part up.

Question? Did Israel know how many civilians were in the area when they bombed the militant? I don't know how they could come up with any real number, perhaps an estimate. After telling civilians to leave several times, maybe they thought the area was relatively clear of civilians. We'll never truly know.

[Beastly Boy]

38. Proportionate response is a rule of war, not a rule of law.

And you have to ask yourself, proportionate to what? Usually it is the consequences of what threat the target represents, not the head count. I would argue that the treat a single terrorist represents is to hundreds of civilian lives, and a single terrorist commander to thousands.

I will let you calculate the proportions, because the idea of counting lives as if they were oranges disturbs me.

[totodeinhere]

34. International law gives Israel the right to defend itself.

The one terrorist they are killing will kill more Israelis if possible. The only way for Israel to stop attacks from Hamas is to eliminate them. International law allows Israel to do that.

[questionseverything]

61. Israel should man up , use a little brain power instead of fire power

And find the criminals that actually participated in 10-7

This “ bomb every thing attitude “ is a war crime

[Beastly Boy]

29. I'd not make assumptions or rush to udgement.

Especially a judgement that is based on the notoriously biased sources of information as if they were God's word.

But that's just me.

[yagotme]

30. Well, since a leader of the militants WAS killed, I guess they were right... nt

[totodeinhere]

21. Perhaps the world needs to revisit the topic of war crimes.

I think that as a general rule of thumb if a law isn't working it should be either modified or repealed. If everybody is breaking the law then why bother with having the law? Yes, the US has committed war crimes in both WWi, WWii, Vietnam, Iraq etc. Other world powers have done the same. Now we have Russia, Hamas, Israel and several other states all committing war crimes. It kind of makes the existence of war crimes redundant.

And don't interpret my comments to mean that I endorse war crimes because I do not.

[yagotme]

31. So, you don't like what Israel is doing.

Please map out what Israel's response should be. Real-world response, not pie-in-the=sky stuff.

[Calculating]

37. That's how wars are fought all throughout history

Don't like it, don't fight wars. You win a war by crushing your enemy militarily, and also crushing the will of their people to continue supporting the fight.

War is hell, how about we stop with the goddamn wars?

[redqueen]

39. I never thought I'd see so many people handwaving war crimes

Things sure have changed around here in some ways

[malaise]

59. Frightening indeed

I weep for humanity

[Redleg]

44. Two choices seems too few to me

I would like to think that there are a few more options that can be considered to make Israel safe.

[yagotme]

47. The 2 I listed, are basically what all other choices boil down to.

If you have some other plan, that both Israel and Hamas will agree to, the world would love to have it. Not sarcasm, anyone can come up with a new idea that is sitting on the outside looking in. It's just the history of the region, options are pretty limited, with the players/motives at hand.

[Redleg]

48. I disagree

There are more military options available to Israel besided do nothing and reduce Gaza to rubble.
No, I don't have a plan that will work because of assholes on both sides of the conflict.

[yagotme]

49. Hamas is intertwined in the infrastructure of Gaza.

Tunnels under key buildings, strongpoints/missile launch systems in schools, hospitals, apt. buildings. Israel has boots on the ground right now in Gaza. What military options are you proposing? I really would like to know.

[Redleg]

50. "Boots on the ground" is a poorly defined option or strategy

First, there are a number of ways to employ ground forces just as there a number of ways to employ air forces and other capabilities. For example, one can rely on precision munitions or one can drop a shit load of bombs. This "either bomb or do nothing approach" is quite simplistic. Likewise ground troops can be used in a variety of ways

Second, it's not my job to propose well-developed military options to the Israelis. They have generals to figure that out. My job is to criticize posters here at DU who post simplistic shit about waging war and then create straw-man arguments to allay any criticism of what they post.

[yagotme]

62. Well, I'm glad I could keep you employed here.

Didn't know that was a job opportunity. Pay??

[Redleg]

63. No pay, it's all about the intrinsic motivation

Peace.

[yagotme]

64. Ah, self-idealized self-employment.

Plenty of openings in the market for that.

[brush]

5. I'd call that over-retaliation, which of course will continue the cycle of violence. Consequences?

Of course...extreme right wing admins on both sides will see to that. Hamas and Likud.

[Beastly Boy]

7. Just another tragic commentary on how much Hamas cares about Gaza civilians

[Marcus IM]

8. Yep. Making killing said civilians even more egregious.

Victimized by both sides.

[Beastly Boy]

11. Too bad Erik Sperling doesn't acknowledge this in his tweet.

On edit: I lost count of all the sides who have been victimizing Palestinians over the years.

[Chautauquas]

26. and how willing Israel is to kill civilians

including over 3,000 children.

[Beastly Boy]

42. Don't confuse a will to kill terrorists with a will to kill civilians.

Is hiding behind civilians with the full knowledge you are the target wilful? Yes.

Israel doesn't do that. Hamas does.

Is targeting armed combattants willful? Yes.

Israel does this, Hamas doesn't.

It doesn't take a rocket surgeon to tell them apart.

[Tickle]

12. That's one way to make sure Hamas

doesn't go around killing an beheading women and babies.

I'm not ready to get over 10/7.

[Marcus IM]

13. Beheading women and babies with knives or bombs is one way to ensure retribution.

They bomb us, we bomb them, they bomb us, we bomb them ...
We bomb them, they bomb us, we bomb them, they bomb us ...

This works.

For the military industrial sectors.
For authoritarian complex disordered power brokers.

[Big Blue Marble]

43. This is not about getting over October 7th.

No one should "get over" mass killings anywhere. I am not over the horrors of 9/11 and still
was outraged that we attacked Iraq.

As humanitarians who care about all human beings, we know that killing only brings more killing.
The tremendous human tragedy that is unfolding in Gaza is unbearable to watch.

[Mosby]

15. The tweeter is lying

That's why there is a community note now.

All your doing is spreading Hamas propaganda.

[Marcus IM]

16. Well, if Eloon sez so, it must be true. Sure. Uh huh.

Also, I think you meant "you're", not red hat "your".

And, no. It's a UN report on the numbers.

[Mosby]

17. Sorry to see you have a problem with facts.

The community notes are called that because they don't involve X or Musk. The notation uses the UN and the BBC as sources. Is the BBC compromised do you think?

[Marcus IM]

27. Twitter is a nest of RWers and tRumpsters.

From Eloon ...

Community Notes is a collaborative way to keep people better informed.

1️⃣ Contributors are people like you. Anyone on X whose account meets the eligibility criteria can sign up to help.


2️⃣ All contributors start with the ability to rate notes, and over time, can earn the ability to write.

3️⃣ Notes aren't chosen by majority rule. Community Notes identifies notes that are found helpful by and for people with different points of view.

4️⃣ X doesn't choose what shows up: the people do.

Less reliable than Wikipedia.

[sarisataka]

18. This is misleading propaganda

First, the Ukrainian numbers are verified by the UN, not just reported by a very partisan and questionable source as in Gaza.

Second-

OHCHR believes that the actual figures are considerably higher, as the receipt of information from some locations where intense hostilities have been going on has been delayed and many reports are still pending corroboration. This concerns, for example, Mariupol (Donetsk region), Lysychansk, Popasna, and Sievierodonetsk (Luhansk region), where there are allegations of numerous civilian casualties.

https://www.ohchr.org/en/news/2023/09/ukraine-civilian-casualty-update-24-september-2023

The UN knows there are many more dead but will not use unverifiable numbers

[totodeinhere]

19. The difference is that Ukraine does not use human shields. Hamas does.

Hamas does everything possible to make sure that there are civilian deaths in an effort to affect world opinion.

[inthewind21]

20. Agreed

And they baited Israel into doing it for them. Just like they hoped for! Bravo!!!!! Great strategy!

[BannonsLiver]

24. Well if Erik Sperling says it it must be true.

That settles it. I’m anti Israel now.

[elocs]

25. 80,000 to 100,000 civilians were killed in a single night in the fire bombing of Tokyo in WWII. It's war and war is hell

It's official: both sides, Hamas and Israel, have blood on their hands. The only losers are the people of Gaza, who live in poverty and have survived in an outdoor concentration camp for decades without hope. Terrorism is an ideology of hate and even if Israel destroys Hamas, which they won't because it is an idea albeit an evil one, something as bad or worse will take its place.

[Wednesdays]

35. 66,000 - 140,000 in one MINUTE

Hiroshima.

[Act_of_Reparation]

55. So what you're suggesting is a war... on... terror.

I have the vaguest notion we've gone down this road before...

[redqueen]

57. It appears many people learned nothing from it. nt

[Elessar Zappa]

41. Yeah, bullshit.

[pandr32]

51. Such hideous data.

What the hell are we? Monsters?

[rso]

52. Putin

Gargantuan false equivalency, did Ukranian troops cross into Russian territory and massacre and kidnap 1400 people ?

[themaguffin]

56. Do we really need to post that bullshit here?

[Lurker Deluxe]

58. Poor targeting systems

10K civilians killed.

Not one single Hamas death.

Not one.