Woman turned away from renting Florida church for business event because her three kids were born via IVF

[Demovictory9]

https://www.abcactionnews.com/news/region-pinellas/really-taken-aback-local-mom-says-dunedin-church-pulled-out-of-hosting-event-over-ivf-journey

PINELLAS COUNTY, Fla. — A local mother and event host is without a venue after a Dunedin church said she couldn't use their event space because of her history of using in vitro fertilization or IVF.

The church is legally allowed to drop the event, but Katy Rey wanted to share her story to help others in a similar situation.

"I am an infertile female, and I went through in vitro fertilization to have my children, and she said the church is against that," she said.

____

The event aims to celebrate life’s accomplishments all while highlighting local businesses and nonprofits.

Last year, the event was held at Our Lady of Lourdes, and that was the plan for this year as well. Rey said she put the money down and signed the contract, but all of a sudden, the church pulled out.

____

The Diocese of St. Petersburg explained that the Catholic Church doesn't support IVF. They referred us to an article that reads in part, "One reproductive technology which the Church has clearly and unequivocally judged to be immoral is in vitro fertilization or IVF.”

[TreasonousBastard]

1. Why is IVF considered immoral? The Catholic...

Church considers lots of things immoral, but that one has always escaped me.

[Demovictory9]

2. "Begotten Not Made: A Catholic View of Reproductive Technology"

https://www.usccb.org/issues-and-action/human-life-and-dignity/reproductive-technology/begotten-not-made-a-catholic-view-of-reproductive-technology

Why IVF is Wrong

Human beings bear the image and likeness of God. They are to be reverenced as sacred. Never are they to be used as a means to an end, not even to satisfy the deepest wishes of an infertile couple. Husbands and wives "make love," they do not "make babies." They give expression to their love for one another, and a child may or may not be engendered by that act of love. The marital act is not a manufacturing process, and children are not products. Like the Son of God himself, we are the kind of beings who are "begotten, not made" and, therefore, of equal status and dignity with our parents.

In IVF, children are engendered through a technical process, subjected to "quality control," and eliminated if found "defective." In their very coming into being, these children are thoroughly subjected to the arbitrary choices of those bringing them into being. In the words of Donum Vitae: "The connection between in vitro fertilization and the voluntary destruction of human embryos occurs too often. This is significant: through these procedures, with apparently contrary purposes, life and death are subjected to the decision of man, who thus sets himself up as the giver of life and death by decree." The document speaks of "the right of every person to be conceived and to be born within marriage and from marriage." To be within and from marriage, conception should occur from the marriage act which by its nature is ordered toward loving openness to life, not from the manipulations of technicians.

The dehumanizing aspects of some of these procedures is evident in the very language associated with them. There is the "reproductive technology industry." Children are called the "products" of conception. Inherent in IVF is the treatment of children, in their very coming into being, as less than human beings.

[Donkees]

5. ''conception should occur from the marriage act" - What about the Virgin Mary?

In Christianity, the announcement of the Angel Gabriel to Mary that she would be the mother of Jesus.

“Behold, I am the handmaid of the Lord; let it be [done] to me according to your word” (Lk 1:38).

Gabriel responded that it would be by the power of the Holy Spirit that she would conceive this child.

[GreenWave]

7. Didn't Virgin Mary already have a husband and several prior kids?

Here they did not plagiarize Hercules very well.
Zeus impregnates immaculately using beams of light the absolute Virgin Alcmene. Her son would be called Alcides.

They did a great job plagiarizing after that:

Son o man? Check
Good Shepherd? Check
Prince of Peace? Check
Voluntarily self sacrificed? Check
Found dead after 3 days? Check
Called Soter (Savior) ? Check

[Donkees]

10. It seems ''she was engaged to a man she had not yet been with''

But for Mary, there was an added complication—she was engaged to a man she had not yet been with, and by becoming pregnant outside of wedlock, she risked severe legal reprisal according to the law of the day.

Of course, we read in the New Testament that Joseph, Mary’s husband to be, was a good and decent man who was likewise visited by an angel. In a dream he learned of the divine parentage of Mary’s son; he later went on to raise the child Jesus as his own, guiding and protecting Him during those vital early years. But for some modern Christians, there remains a difficult question: Were Joseph and Mary married?

https://www.angel.com/blog/the-chosen/posts/were-mary-and-joseph-married

[hatrack]

9. "Why IVF Is Wrong, But Child Rape Is To Be Concealed And Denied"

[Ritabert]

3. Many embryos are frozen

....and usually discarded after the procedure is no longer needed. No mention of pedophile priests you'll note.

[Eugene]

4. It doesn't follow God's Plan(tm).

"God always has a plan," and it not for humans to interfere with it.
Natural birth and natural death.

If pregnancy endangers the mother's life, that's the plan as well.
I remember when the church praised a woman who died
rather the having an abortion to save her life.

If one takes the Good Book literally, it's possible to justify
all kinds of crazy sh*t.

[Brenda]

6. How in the hell do they know her children were IVF?

Doesn't seem like a standard question on a venue rental form.

[EYESORE 9001]

8. Notoriety, no doubt

Churchy tongues do wag.

[sarcasmo]

18. Prayer group, equals gossip group.

[Demovictory9]

19. She talks about it on social media..maybe as support to other women considering the procedure

[TwilightZone]

11. I was wondering when they'd play that card.

I always found it curious that the immoral minority insisted that abortion was against God's will, but they were seemingly just fine with in vitro. Both would seem to be -- from their narrow perspective -- outside of God's plan. I always presumed that IVF was fine because they wanted everyone pumping out babies.

Have to give them credit --- this group is at least consistent in their ignorance and misogyny, however misguided it may be.

[IL Dem]

13. The Catholic Church has always been against IVF.

It's just not talked about like their anti-abortion stance. To me, it's consistent logic.

Protestant anti-abortionists, however, do not show the same consistency.

[TwilightZone]

16. The church, yes, but not Catholics, in general, in the US.

64% think abortion should be legal in most or all cases.

https://apnorc.org/projects/most-catholic-americans-disagree-with-hardline-positions-of-church-leadership/

I didn't find a contemporary poll on IVR in a quick search, but in 2018, the % of Catholics who believed IVR was morally wrong was only 13%. The % who thought abortion was morally wrong was 48%. (That number has obviously dropped since 2018).

That's not even remotely consistent.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2018/national/how-religion-is-coming-to-terms-with-modern-fertility-methods/

[IL Dem]

17. I do understand the difference between the church hierarchy and the church-goers. n/t

[Goodheart]

12. And then some here cry when the rational among us condemn religion.

[EndlessWire]

20. I have certain beliefs

I don't consider myself irrational, as you apparently do.

When I lost my head and asked for simple prayers for a woman who was dying, a number of people I had respected jumped on me quite coldly and inserted their own prejudiced rhetoric, even though it was not called for. I guarantee you, in moments of extreme panic and peril, you will pray. That's wishing for a positive outcome when you know logically that there probably won't be one, but still you hope.

As it was, it told me more about certain posters than they would probably want me to know. But, my beliefs have nothing to do with organized religion to the extent that something as benign as IVF would flip me into hysterics. I would worry about the shunning of her children if I didn't believe that a greater good usually works out. I suppose this issue doesn't particularly bother her, except that I wonder why she wanted to do business with a church as backward as this one.

[Goodheart]

22. "I guarantee you, in moments of extreme panic and peril, you will pray."

I guarantee you that I will not. I know that from experience.

[woodsprite]

14. What would they say if she said "If God is real, the

technology wouldn’t have succeeded without his blessing and the embryos would have never developed to the point of transfer. So yeah, God did have a plan.”

Speaking as someone who underwent IVF and finally a frozen cycle to have our son, I had almost 20 eggs retrieved over 3 cycles. Only one egg made it to the embryo stage to be transferred during the successful frozen cycle. (2 previous non-frozen tries my body failed and needed more support during the transfer and implantation phase) My “kidscicle” now is finishing college and planning his wedding.

And IMO there is very little that tests faith as much as an infertility struggle.

[flying_wahini]

15. This is why people shun religion.

What a bunch of hooey.

They just look for new ways to control people.
Who died and made them King?

[sl8]

21. The church is against many "sins", but they still do business with the "sinners".

It's been a long time, but I'm pretty sure I was taught that none of us were without sin. Also, something along the lines of, "hate the sin, love the sinner".