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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsGen Z Doesn't Just Want to Travel Abroad, They Want to Move There
Between the cost of living and access to social programs, young people are making plans to leave for good.Young people love to travel—it is why they are studying abroad, asking for travel for Christmas presents, and going into debt to go on trips. But some young people aren't packing up their bags for vacation. According to a new study, one in four Gen Z Americans want to move to a different country, in order for better access to healthcare and other social services.
Preply, an online language program, surveyed 3,000 Americans between the ages of 18 and 26 in October 2023 about whether they envisioned their futures in the US or in another country. In the Preply study, 25.6% of respondents shared that they would be interested in moving abroad for universal healthcare and other social programs like affordable higher education, housing support, and pension programs. Notably, these are areas that the US falls short on. In fact, according to a report from the World Economic Forum, the US is behind nine other countries on how much of its GDP is spent on social programs. France, Finland, and Belgium spend the most.
This data supports a lot of sentiment that has gone viral on TikTok about moving abroad. In one TikTok, which has been liked more than 800,000 times, a woman named Rachel who left the US to live in Portugal details how much more affordable her life is, and how much happier she is. Rachel isn't alone. "We moved abroad almost a year ago and it low key irritates my soul when I have to go back stateside to handle business for a few days at a time," one commenter on the video wrote. In another video that has been liked over 80,000 times, a man named Austin details that he's leaving Florida to head to Bali, describing his general unhappiness living in the US. "There's gotta be something better out here than how it's going here," Austin says. "I'm stuck between trying to succeed in the USA or leaving for my well being," one TikToker commented on Austin's video.
It's important to note that in the Preply survey, less than one percent of respondents said that social media has acted as an influence for them to leave the country. While the most popular motivator for wanting to move was wanting access to better social programs like healthcare, other top motivators included having new experiences and finding a better cost of living than in the US. Rounding out the top four reasons were respondents disliking the US political environment.
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cachukis
(3,933 posts)jimfields33
(19,382 posts)We live in an amazing world. When you travel, you find that everyone is basically the same. I love different cultures.
wils3038
(14 posts)I’m 65 living in South Carolina my son is 25 we talk about it all the time I’ve taught public education at a high school for forty years and I believe I am still making a difference so I will wait
JanMichael
(25,725 posts)We are both in the NC retirement system which is pretty good. Not nearly the years though!
Where are you looking to move to? We are looking to stay away from the equator even though Panama Costa Rica Equator and some other countries are great. So now looking at the UK mostly with fleeting thoughts of Spain or Portugal and have friends in Germany and Hungary (Orban sucks though).
Good luck!
wils3038
(14 posts)SC had the TERI Plan which allowed me to retire about 8 years ago so I am pulling my retirement and a paycheck. I like to tell people I am making what teachers should be paid. We’re looking possibly Portugal although my son likes Italy.
SheilaAnn
(10,711 posts)brooklynite
(96,882 posts)SheilaAnn
(10,711 posts)brooklynite
(96,882 posts)…with proof that you have enough assets so you you won’t need to take advantage of those great social services.
Marcus IM
(3,001 posts)Same applies for Cuban "exiles" I mention below.
RobinA
(10,478 posts)I keep seeing these articles about Americans moving to different countries like you just pack up and move there when you feel like it, like moving to a new state. I'm guessing that any country you can just relocate to is not a country most Americans would feel comfortable in.
Not that I don't get the impulse to do so given what's looming here.
usedtobedemgurl
(2,050 posts)
DFW
(60,182 posts)As citizens of both the USA and Germany, they can live and work in the USA or anywhere in the EU. One now lives in New York City, and the other lives near Frankfurt. Both now have two children each, and either already have, or are getting dual citizenship for their kids as well.
I never applied for German citizenship, but have a permanent residence and work permit, so I don't need citizenship. To get it, I had to go through a mountain of paperwork (twice, since the Germans lost my paperwork the first time, although they did apologize). First and foremost were: proof of marriage to a German citizen, proof of financial stability, proof of health insurance--pretty loose, calling Blue Cross health insurance, but they bought it--, proof of a longstanding steady job, and proof that I'd never ask their government for money or living assistance. Since all of my interviews were conducted in German, they waived the language test requirement. Since I didn't request citizenship, I wasn't required to take the citizenship test (I passed it anyway, just in case someone like Cheney or Trump managed to get themselves declared Emperor, and I want to reconsider).
DFW
(60,182 posts)There aren't many places on earth where you can just get off the plane, say "here I am!" and just move into the first place that seems to fit your needs and budget.
Also, although many countries now teach English as their first foreign language in their schools, the fact remains that to actually be part of a country you are moving to, you must be proficient in their language, if it's not an English-speaking country. You'll no more be a part of life in France speaking only English than you would be a part of life in the USA if all you speak is French.
shrike3
(5,370 posts)Other than a year working in a library. (He has a degree in library science.)
But you're right in that young people had best have skills to offer as well as language competency.
My friend's son was able to apply for the job while still in the states. If a job is waiting, I imagine that would make emigration so much easier.
DFW
(60,182 posts)It's no guarantee, but it's a major hurdle to overcome if you don't have one waiting, and don't have ten million euros in a checking account that say you'll never need one.
shrike3
(5,370 posts)Don't know how he got the job; he had no connections. But he's there and he loves it.
brooklynite
(96,882 posts)
EllieBC
(3,639 posts)to have to do all this paperwork and prove they won’t be a drain on their country of choice.
Marcus IM
(3,001 posts)Like Cuban exiles in the US. Longing for their idea of a Cuba without socialism, while enjoying US socialism specially cut out for them.
Their brave stand against the evil Dr Castro was undertaken by waiting for him to die.
When he did die what happened?
They stayed - enjoying the good life while supporting sanctions that create deprivation for their families who stayed in Cuba. Waiting for the US government to do their dirty work.
Gusanos.
David__77
(24,727 posts)Marcus IM
(3,001 posts)Also of Jewish descent.
Colloquially called "Jewban" in S Fla.
DFW
(60,182 posts)The partner I fell in love with 49 years ago said she wanted to do her job as a social worker, and wanted to be near her parents since her father was crippled during the war. My employer said, "look, you can speak eight European languages (now it's nine), so if you can do your job from over there, go for it." So I did. This early was in the 1970s, so no internet, not even faxes yet, but we did have telephones, and I did make it work. I was commuting back and forth like crazy for decades, but after nearly forty years, I finally made the move permanent. Enough is enough. It was easy to handle at 25. The jet lag got a little more wearing and tearing by the time I was 60, and that was over ten years ago. I'm still in a different country nearly every day, but don't do intercontinental every 3 weeks any more. I still meet with Senators (one more, when Rubén Gallego makes it two Democrats from Arizona next year), House Reps. (one less when Rubén moves over to the Senate) and pundits when I'm in the States, and am an expat in geographical distance only.
leftstreet
(40,670 posts)
Mariana
(15,624 posts)Why should they feel responsible to fix it?
leftstreet
(40,670 posts)or the American Revolution, or the Slave Rebellion, or those things in Chile and Cuba, er
Mariana
(15,624 posts)Should they have stayed and fought? How about the colonists who came to the future US? They left their countries of origin in search of a better life. Today we have migrants coming here from places like Venezuela to escape poverty and oppression. Do you look down upon them too?
leftstreet
(40,670 posts)Hmm...
Mariana
(15,624 posts)I'm comparing Gen Z to any other people who leave a bad situation in search of a better one. I admire people who do that.
Response to leftstreet (Reply #34)
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Mariana
(15,624 posts)Marcus IM
(3,001 posts)Within, you'll discover that I am an immigrant.
Brought here as a child by my cut-n-run parents.
As is the case for many immigrants, I have spend an inordinate amount of time and money bringing/sending relief to my family back home.
Thanks for asking, though.
area51
(12,691 posts)The only way to ensure you'll get healthcare is to move to a first-world country where you'll finally get some return on your tax dollars.
Marcus IM
(3,001 posts)If Americans cut and run to democratic socialist countries after paying a lifetime of US taxes, they are relying on the hard work undertaken by other people who took responsibility and fought hard for their system.
Why would they want people too disinterested to do the hard work in their own country to come to leach off of theirs?
Are you aware of what most Europeans think of Americans? It ain't pretty.
Mariana
(15,624 posts)They haven't "paid a lifetime of US taxes".
Marcus IM
(3,001 posts)Didn't know that lifetime is limited to geriatric aged people, as vaguely defined by you.
I thought that one's lifetime is the duration of their lifetime ... Be it 21 years or 90.
DFW
(60,182 posts)Here in Germany, I am in the supposed 42% + 5% (i.e. 47% plus plus), essentially 50% tax bracket. You don't have to earn a fortune to get there. Once you hit about $100,000, you're there. In return, I get----ZERO. No health care, no social security, no pension, no NOTHING. Just the right to pay, and since there are holes in the Double Taxation Treaty with the USA, I get hit for about 67% total on my income taxes. As of last year, I finally do draw US social security, of which GERMANY, not the USA, takes 50%.
When I first moved here, I checked out what health insurance was available, since my employer and remuneration were still in the USA. I was quoted €30,000 a year for health insurance, but given the option of keeping my US Blue Cross, which pays for exactly nothing.
If you do move, make sure you know what the ground rules are before you go. Asylum seekers get more for coming here with nothing than I do for paying the German government a solid five figures in taxes every four months, plus 19% value added tax on everything I buy.
One thing they did NOT give me a hard time about was my language test. Since my wife is German, and we have always spoken German together from day one--and that was 49 years ago--they said I didn't need a language test.
But if you move to another country, be prepared for a mountain of paperwork, and frustrating encounters with bureaucrats who have no interest whatsoever in your case. Once you're in, you're in, but make sure you know what you're in for once you get here. They aren't interested in complaints afterward.
Celerity
(54,405 posts)as long as you are legally here.
DFW
(60,182 posts)If your employer is elsewhere, and you are paid elsewhere, but have a residence in Germany, they tax you on your whole income (even if you are also taxed on it elsewhere), and give you nothing in return. If you have a German employer, the rules are different, but they make no allowances for people who don't fit in their neat little boxes. I wish Sweden would teach the Germans about flexibility and adaptability, because in German bureaucratic circles, they are dirty words. Should anything, or anyone, depart in the slightest from their Vorschriften (set rules), they go into panic mode and repeat their favorite word: nein!
shrike3
(5,370 posts)DFW
(60,182 posts)I moved to a "first world" country (Germany) and get zero health care. Nothing. Nichts. Oh, they tax me for over 50% of my income, but I don't get a euro's worth of anything in return.
murielm99
(32,988 posts)I am glad I stayed here to fight the good fight.
gulliver
(13,985 posts)DFW
(60,182 posts)But then, with me, wherever I am is a different country almost every day. Probably not a typical situation.
brooklynite
(96,882 posts)Some countries collect taxes for a State religion.
Some countries require you to report to the local police when you move.
Some countries have much more restrictive shopping hours.
Then of course there are the higher costs (gas for example) and VAT rates.
DFW
(60,182 posts)Germany has no state religion, but it does collect a religion tax (Kirchensteuer) if you were born into a family who was registered with a religion. My wife's family was Catholic going back to the year 1473, when the book of her family genealogy starts. Since her family never opted out (a legal option if you want to go through the paperwork), she is registered as a Catholic and gets hit for the church tax. When I got my residence here, I made sure to be registered as without religion so as not to have to pay such a thing, which I consider to be an obscenity (I was obviously brought up differently).
In Germany, when you move here, or move within Germany, you must register with the local police, and do so again when you move, but with the police in the town you leave, and again with the police in the town you move to. And again, of course, if you decide to move away from Germany.
Although it has been loosened in recent years, Germany has a "Ladenschlussgesetz," meaning if you own a retail business, you may not have it open beyond government proscribed hours. Up until a few years ago, the "Ordnungsamt," or "Bureau of Order (how many countries have THAT?)" sent patrols around to identify and fine businesses that stayed open a few minutes beyond the legal time limit. It used to be, for example, 2 PM on Saturdays, though some businesses are now allowed to be open later, particularly food and drug stores.
The Germans levy a 19% VAT on almost everything--in some cases on other taxes!! The price of gasoline used to be comprised of the gas itself, and then the oil tax. Then the government decided to make it subject to the 19% VAT. Not just the gas, but they put the 19% tax on the mineral oil tax! They tax the tax. A friend of ours is a judge on the tax court, a professor of tax law at the University of Bonn, and wrote his doctoral thesis on double taxation. He said the tax on the tax at the gas pump is patently illegal under the German Constitution, which forbids double taxation, but since no one has ever instigated a class action suit, no one has ever challenged it. He said he would strike it down in a flash if it were ever to come before him. A wealth tax failed before the German Supreme Court, too, since it was designed to re-tax money that had already been taxed. Since Germany had an issue with double taxing a certain portion of the population some 75-80 years ago, the post-war Germans (with our help) wrote the law to forbid double taxation ever again. Of course, people bring lawsuits. Gas pumps do not.
For a while on DU, it was fashionable to claim that certain things were "free" in certain European countries, such as medical care or education. That was, and is ridiculous. Hospitals are not built for free. Medical supplies are not manufactured and administered for free. Doctors do not work without compensation. Teachers do not work without a salary. These things are financed in a wholly different way from the way they are paid for in the USA, but they are anything but free.
Mariana
(15,624 posts)For example, here I don't have to report to the local police if I move, but I have to give my new address to the RMV so they can update my driver's license, and I have to give it to the town clerk to be be able to vote. Shopping hours don't mean much when you can shop online for delivery or pickup. Gas prices aren't important if you can use public tranportation. And so on.
DFW
(60,182 posts)My wife's mom is 96, and needs constant visits. My wife drives up there (2½ hours each way) one or two times a month because her mom lives in a tiny town with no public transportation in or out of the town or any town nearby. She also drives to our daughter in the Taunus Hills. Though there are trains, you have to go all the way to Frankfurt (2 hours all in, including the ride from our town down to Düsseldorf), one of the most expensive routes in Germany, since the German trains milk the business travelers and the people going to and from the airport, and then wait 30 minutes to get on a tiny commuter train back up to Königstein, which takes another 40 minutes. The drive takes 2 hours, all in, and in the car, she can even bring presents for the grandchildren.
We live in an 800 year old town with a tradition of having a farmers market three times a week and local shops where we are known. Yes, many things can be ordered online, but not everything, and if everyone starts doing that, the markets and the small shops will dry up. As it is, some of our favorite shops and cafés have been forced out of business because national chains have offered the landlords double the rent, and the landlords, in turn, made the shop proprietors either pay double overnight (unaffordable) or move out. Quality of life and tradition are worth something, too. We do not want Ratingen to look like Chevy Chase or McLean. We patronize the open-air market and the small shops as much as we can, and always pay cash, so that the locals don't lose 4% to the credit card companies.
ck4829
(37,760 posts)brooklynite
(96,882 posts)You'll be expected not to be a tax burden.
genxlib
(6,135 posts)Surprised to see Canada below us on social spending. I would think that health care alone would put them above. I suppose we are spending a ton on health care but just not covering nearly as many people.
Also, what the hell is up with Pennsylvania? Why does basically every young person in Penn want to leave the Country. I mean I understand the broad desire but that is huge number more than others. Presumably, that stretches the range from rural Penn Dutch Country to urban Philly.
I am the parent of a Gen Z and I kind of want her to leave as well. She is graduating in Bio medical Engineering in the spring and Europe has some opportunities that I would love for her to explore.
DFW
(60,182 posts)My daughters are already too old.
They did high school here in Germany. One graduated, one left after the tenth grade. They never liked the education system here, and fled for the USA as quickly as they could. Due to the lousy job situation left by Cheney-Bush, one couldn't find a job in her field (international law), and so left back for Germany when a good-paying job opportunity showed up with the German arm of a British law firm. She later got head-hunted by the German arm of an American law firm, made partner at 31, and now makes five time what I do. I don't know where she got those genes. Her older sister opted to stay in the States, had some rough times, but is now working full time where she always wanted to live (Manhattan). She is trying to juggle her job and her two young sons. Her husband works full time plus 50%. Both the one in New York and the one in Frankfurt have hectic schedules, and little free time, although the one in Frankfurt uses her greater vacation time to run for quick trips over to America to see her sister, or, as this weekend, for long weekends to the ends of the earth. She just went for a long weekend to visit friends who live in Zanzibar (!!!). I was obviously born a generation too early.
WarGamer
(18,613 posts)I've considered moving.
But more for quality of life.
At this stage of my life I'd like to SLOW DOWN.
I've spent some time in rural Italy and it'd suit me nicely.
DFW
(60,182 posts)I've been to a couple of their cities, and they make Manhattan seem like a deserted tropical island.
ProfessorGAC
(76,695 posts)I've worked in Milan, Florence, Rome, Naples, & Torino and there no slow pace of life there.
The place I worked the most is more rural, (about half way between Florence & Rome.) Pace of life is lower than those cities, but no different than where we live. (Exurbs of Chicago)
Maybe southwest of Trieste, or well south of Rome, or northeast of Reggio might fit that posters image.
WarGamer
(18,613 posts)Rome is crazy... but it's the epicenter of my historical interests...
So I headed a few hours East...
hunter
(40,689 posts)If we had chosen to do so we might have been better off financially than we are now, having been hit hard later by the random sorts of health problems that fall out of the sky.
Our last major medical adventure here in the U.S.A. cost $10,000 out-of-pocket, and that's what I negotiated for AFTER our supposedly good insurance had paid most of the bills.
Here in the U.S.A. people who are too sick to fight for appropriate healthcare, or people who don't have advocates to fight for them, can end up bankrupt or dead.
Previous to Obamacare my wife has run COBRA plans to the bitter end, and we've both found ourselves in the position of being uninsurable except through employment.
Nevertheless we stayed here in California because that's where most of our family lives.
Here we both continue the political fight for some kind of universal health care of the sort all truly civilized nations enjoy.
The U.S.A. is not a civilized nation. It's not even a fully "developed" or "first world" nation in many respects.
DFW
(60,182 posts)They have a complicated patchwork system of health insurance that involves major paperwork, and depends on a lot of factors. If you do not constantly keep up with the paperwork, or fall through certain cracks, you can easily find yourself without health insurance here. My wife is a retired German social worker, and confronted with people without health insurance all the time. She was once even one of them. She said the number of Germans without health insurance is in the hundreds of thousands, as opposed to the tens of millions in the USA, but they are there. There is no universal health insurance coverage here.
Due to health reasons and a horrible work situation, she took early retirement at age 60. Part of her retirement settlement meant she got continued health insurance coverage for a few months after she left, but from age 60½ to 65, when the German version of Medicare kicked in, I had to spring for the €550 per month to keep her insured. Kind of a German COBRA, if you will. Since she got diagnosed with a rare, almost always fatal form of cancer (called "the murderer" here) at age 64, it was lucky we did that. The clinic said that the chances of surviving what she had were one in ten thousand, and we had better prepare ourselves. But she turned out to be that one in ten thousand.
hunter
(40,689 posts)... and worry about financial ruin by medical bills during some of the most stressful times of their lives.
DFW
(60,182 posts)The second time (the murderer) she was only covered because I could afford to pay for her insurance. The $33,000 a year the Germans want from me is over the top. The German tax laws do allow you to deduct medical costs not covered by insurance from your income, so it's sorta like a 50% coverage for what you can afford. I put some money aside each year just in case, but if I get anything drastic, I'll have to fly back to Texas, where the Blue Cross should be honored, and we have a big enough legal department to intervene if Blue Cross denies everything like they do all bills from Germany. I also now have Medicare A, but have no idea what it's good for (yet, luckily). I'm sure I'll find out soon enough, though I'm in no hurry. Both my parents had cancer, and ALL their siblings had cancer. With me, it's not "if," but "when."
ExWhoDoesntCare
(4,741 posts)The DIL's job sent her to Europe for a 'temporary' assignment. Temporary, because they thought none of their American employees would want to be gone all that long. For most of the company's existence, that has been the case.
The sprogs decided about six months into the stint to make it permanent, because America is too much of a bog of stupid and hate for them now. So they now will be there until either Europe gets stupid, or they're blasted out.
betsuni
(29,075 posts)DemocraticPatriot
(5,410 posts)although they may discover that the 'Constitutional Rights' which they take for granted, do not exist there....
but the cost of living is much lower! (just don't get in trouble, or open your mouths)....
(( I have been good internet friends with many young women in Colombia---
and have been very SHOCKED about how 'the law' operates there---
or the lack of such therof.....))
I had even planned to visit Colombia--- but having been informed of the realities in that country by some who live there, I am now very afraid to make such a visit...
OldBaldy1701E
(11,142 posts)I can assure them all that these problems will surface no matter where they go. But, please, abandon your home country. That will show them! 
redqueen
(115,186 posts)The corrupting influence of money and the two-party system has convinced many that it is simply not possible to significantly / sufficiently change the way this country is run.
OldBaldy1701E
(11,142 posts)ck4829
(37,760 posts)I think it's always a good policy to be positive.
redqueen
(115,186 posts)not to strike the warning that Souter wanted to include in his opinion? Maybe that would have prevented Citizens United? Which everyone says is hopeless to try to get rid of because $$$?
More than 20 years ago, then-Supreme Court Justice David Souter tried to warn that big money in politics risked turning United States officials into tools of an emerging “plutocracy.” We now know from recently-released case files that Souter had to strike the language in his draft Supreme Court opinion in a 2000 campaign finance case, Nixon v. Shrink Missouri Government PAC, as the price to secure Justice Sandra Day O’Connor’s vote. It’s too bad, because Souter’s warning is one that American political leaders, including justices on the Supreme Court itself, needed to hear. That warning was never made and thus never heeded. Today, American plutocracy—from Congress to inside the walls of the court itself—is alive and well.
OldBaldy1701E
(11,142 posts)(Although he/she may well know all about the tax laws and code). I do not expect anyone but the politicians to fix the mess the politicians got us into. Now, if you want to elect me? Not a good idea, but I would be happy to do it if it would help fix things. Unfortunately, my broke ass does not exist in this capitalistic country, so no one would take me seriously. Any other ideas as far as a way to break the cycle of self obsessed politicians who get elected solely due to their donation totals? Because the current system doesn't seem capable of doing it since financial amounts are the entire basis of said system.
Mariana
(15,624 posts)Is this how you feel about all immigrants?
OldBaldy1701E
(11,142 posts)We're running from their country rather than fixing it? Not sure comparing the US to other nations as far as basic freedoms and ability to address grievances is a fair assessment. We have more than one avenue to correct social and/or political issues. (At least, we used to, right?) Also, not every immigrant who comes here is fleeing an oppressive regime or a natural disaster. As to why the current generation should attempt to fix this, why did every previous generation take it upon themselves to fix the mistakes of their elders? I think it is called 'progress'. But, I suppose one could just duck and run. No shame in making sure one's own interests are taken care of first. Not sure how anyone could take a person seriously if their history is one of bolting once things get hairy. But, what do I know? Nothing, that's what. If I did, I would not be sitting where I am.
AllyCat
(18,842 posts)Cost of everything/poor infrastructure are why they want to leave.
sinkingfeeling
(57,834 posts)redqueen
(115,186 posts)simply because they don't care to clean up the political version of toxic Superfund sites which have been left for them by previous generations.
Especially when you consider that it all may turn out to be pointless anyway.
ck4829
(37,760 posts)We're out-cartooning the political cartoons.
Kaleva
(40,365 posts)Doesn't seem to be a concern for Gen Z as it's not listed as a reason to relocate.
Gen Z is facing a bleak future regardless of if they move or not .
Kaleva
(40,365 posts)I only know of a very few of any other generation doing so.
redqueen
(115,186 posts)Kaleva
(40,365 posts)dembotoz
(16,922 posts)maybe folks understand this clip is true
shrike3
(5,370 posts)I said, "yes, that's true."
He said, "Is it also true that most Americans never travel to other countries?"
"Most don't," I said.
"So how would they know, if they've never been anywhere else?" he said.
redqueen
(115,186 posts)who day the same thing about Australia.
shrike3
(5,370 posts)"But we're the greatest country in the world ..."
I obviously haven't met all Australians, but the ones I did meet were incredibly adventurous. Traveling all over the world.
Conjuay
(3,067 posts)He and DIL intend to get out. I really can't blame them,
In hindsight I should have done the same.
LittleGirl
(8,999 posts)At least, that’s what I thought. 9 years later and I’m moving back to the states in a few months. I tried living in Europe for 13 years total so far and I give up the fantasy. It’s very hard to adapt abroad in mid-life, it was for me. I tried to learn the German language but now, I don’t want to remember what I’ve learned and absorbed.
I’m disappointed. All my life, I wanted to live in Italy but after multiple visits there, I’m glad it never happened. If I had come in my 20s, it would have been harder without the internet and language software like we have now.
Good luck to everyone considering it. It’s not for the faint hearted.
DFW
(60,182 posts)But you DO have to get used to a LOT of stupid crap, and you DO have to become fluent in the language. I speak German and Italian, and six other European languages besides English. I need them for my work, and many of my friends are native speakers of languages like Catalan, Swedish, French and Dutch. They all know some English, but I speak their languages better, and I'm more comfortable with people when they speak their native languages anyway. Then I KNOW what they mean when they say something.
But you really have to WANT it. Just doing it because it's "somewhere else" is going to turn out to be a disappointment sooner or later. You've got to have a reason, and something (or, at least, someone) waiting for you where you're going.
You have it exactly right. It's not for the faint-hearted. But all the put-downs of those who leave as cowards who are fleeing "the fight" are just so much crap as well. Some of us have perfectly valid personal reasons for doing so, and if these pics, all taken after I moved to Germany, are of someone who has "given up and abandoned the fight," then we have different definitions of the phrase:
thatdemguy
(620 posts)I have a least 10 kind of distant family members who moved to europe, all except one came back. They all complained about the cost of everything, including health care. The only one who has not is married to a guy who is a higher up in Nokia.
One cousin had to fly back to the US every year for dental visits, because they could not afford dental insurance in europe. Another made good money there ( engineer for BMW ) but lived in a small apartment because between the US and germany paid over 100k in taxes on 150k income. He moved home and lost some income, but brings home almost double.
Those who want to leave really need to read DFW's posts in this thread.
America is not perfect, but it sure seems better from everyone I have spoken to that moved to europe.
DFW
(60,182 posts)Apparently, dental services are so much cheaper in Hungary that it is worth the while of anyone here needing major dentistry to go there for treatment. German-speaking dentists in Budapest do all the work for a fraction of what it costs here, and will set you up with lodging for as much time as you need to stay. I sometimes need minor dental work here, and go see my wife's dentist when I do. The bills seem cheap enough compared to what I pay in Dallas, but I only schedule major work in Dallas, so I don't have any reliable basis for comparison. The €50,000 net income compared to €150,000 gross seems in line with what I'm confronted with.