House members left in stunned disbelief, horror by video of Hamas' attack on Israel

[Fozzledick]

House lawmakers were stunned into shock and disbelief by a screening on Capitol Hill of footage of Hamas’ attack on Israel on Oct. 7.

The roughly 45-minute video assembled by the Israeli government — versions of which have been shown to international media, diplomats and lawmakers, among others — includes graphic footage of Hamas murders and atrocities, some of it pulled from the group’s own body cameras.

Lawmakers left the screening largely in grave silence, visibly shaken, several of them openly crying and comforting one another. One lawmaker, Rep. Marie Gluesenkamp Perez (D-WA), left the screening in tears less than five minutes after entering.
...
“How anyone could call for a cease-fire after watching that — they’re not understanding what is actually happening,” Rep. Mike Lawler (R-NY), who traveled to Israel over the weekend, told Jewish Insider as he came out of the screening.

https://jewishinsider.com/2023/11/capitol-hill-israel-hamas-attacks-footage-screening/

[flying_wahini]

1. Now show them what the Israelis are doing to the Palestinian people.

Make sure it is up close and personal too.

[Fozzledick]

3. Gee, why could that possibly be happening?

Link to tweet

[intrepidity]

4. There is *no* moral equivalence. None.

Are IDF soldiers gleefully broadcasting bodycam footage of them murdering civilians *by hand* ?? Are IDF soldiers phoning home to brag to mom and dad how many Gazan civilians they brutally murdered? I mean, listen to yourself. Think of what you are saying.

[lapfog_1]

5. show what Israel was doing to Gaza on Oct 6, 2023

because that was the behavior that trigged the Hamas attack.

Oct 7, 2023 is what triggered the Israel attack on Hamas.

Also be sure to show Hamas hiding in tunnels underneath hospitals... and preventing civilians from leaving Gaza city after Israel warned people to get out and move to the south of Gaza. Be sure to show the Egyptian response to requests from civilians to leave Gaza.

where was the Oct 6 warning from Hamas to Israel and young people at the music festival to leave southern Israel?

you have to keep these things in the proper time line.

[BlueCheeseAgain]

7. People are certainly free to make their own videos and show them.

In fact, I think people should. We should all see how terrible war is.

[totodeinhere]

9. I am all for transparency so let's show them everything.

But let's make sure they know why Israel had to make these attacks. Israel is trying to eradicate a foe that wants to kill all Jews. That foe hides behind civilians. What else should Israel do? Should they just roll over and play dead and let Hamas kill all Jews. It's either Israel will eradicate Hamas or Hamas will eradicate Israel. That is the choice.

And I noticed not a word of condemnation from you of Hamas.

[Martin68]

15. What you should do is invade with an army and fight Hamas face-to-face and hand-to-hand to avoid civilian casualties.

The US was wrong to carry out indiscriminate bombing in Iraq, and Israel is wrong to do it in Gaza. If Hamas is embedded in civilian buildings then they have to be hunted out and killed one at a time. If there is any desire to claim a high moral ground.

[slightlv]

20. My thoughts are along the same line as yours.

I detest the violence and killing on both sides of civilians. Both sides have their own hatreds and reasons for their hatreds. Anyone could tell the way Israel was formed back in the 40's that there would never be peaceful coexistence. Generations of both Israelis and Arabs have tried so many peace attempts - both diplomatic and citizen to citizen. But still, the old hatreds flare and refuse to die down. At this point, all it will ever be is "tit for tat" with civilians paying the price.

Hamas is a terror group. There is no way around that. There also is no excuse for them putting their own people at risk by hiding among them. Let them come out and fight on a level playing field. Any "civilians" so inclined to their side can take part. But leave the old, the infirm, the children, the women who just want to raise their families in peace alone. Don't hide bombs under and around them.

I think Israel taking the fight, person to person, is the only way to go. We did some of this in Afghanistan with CoIntel. We minimized civilian casualties, tho not enough to my way of thought. And Fallujah was a mess. Bush screwed all of it up so bad he *should* have been brought up on war crimes - he, Cheney, and Rumsfeld (before he died). I'd still wish a tribunal somewhere would do it someday.

War is war. There are rules. Break the rules and their are international consequences. Bush, like all Repugs, got away with everything by lies and glib talk. I can't tell you how much I hate what "we" did in Afghanistan and Iraq -- and all for Cheney's oil, Bush's daddy-issues, and Project for a New Century's ideas of a brave new republican world.

The Israeli army and Mossad are well trained. They could carry out their own cointel and fight hand to hand where needed. But it is easier for either side to make big bombs and kill indiscriminately. The shock factor alone is worth the bad PR. So, I come down on the side of a ceasefire, and a negotiated accord. Israel must stop taking land and throwing Palestinians off and out of their homes and land. Let those who were displaced in recent years in the West Bank have their homes back. If Israel is running out of places to put people, maybe they need to readjust their immigration rules. Maybe they need to build more multi-housing complexes. But no more throwing people off land they've had for years or generations just to put other people in them. That's what South Africa did, too.

And if we're not careful, it'll start happening here. The Nazi's will first throw out our Jewish brothers and sisters, at the same time they're hitting our Muslim brothers and sisters. If we don't stand up for them, they'll next come for any who don't think like they do... Catholics, Buddhists, Hindi, Pagans. Until finally they get to the last of us... just plain old democrats.

I don't trust Nazi's, or authoritarian types of any label. That includes in the Middle East. They will push until they get push back. Hamas can't be allowed to kill innocents... not Israelis, not Palestinians. But there are other ways beyond bombing them back into the stone age (wasn't that attributed to Rumsfeld?)...

It's a hard question, and an implacable problem. A problem those who created Israel in the first place just kicked down to succeeding generations. The Palestinians deserve to have their land. The Israelis deserve to have their land. There is only so much land to go around. So, adjustments have to be made... and that means no incursions from one into the other. But I'm a keyboard diplomat, looking at it through civilian (tho, a veteran... and one who has been involved in creating training for the people in our war in the ME). In our courses, we did special emphasis on what can be learned from history, and applying critical thinking to it. There just needs to be a LOT of critical thinking done here, IMNSHO.

[totodeinhere]

23. Thank you for your very civil and reasonable response.

I was called nasty names in another forum for saying the same thing I said here. But of course DU is more civil and that's what I like about DU. Hopefully the bombing can stop soon. As you know Israel is attacking on the ground now and following your suggestions. But they say they have to soften their targets up first with bombing. And that tactic is a tried and true tactic of war which has been employed by our country many times including when FDR signed off on fire bombing Dresden. And yet we consider FDR one of our greatest Democratic presidents.

.

[elias7]

16. Hamas wants to eradicate jews and Israel. Read their charter, FFS.

You need to step in to the shoes of the Jews. Surrounded by 22 Arab muslim nations, most using the poor Palestinian people as pawns to paint Jews as evil. Israel is not the bully here. Jews have been expelled from every Arab nation since 1948 - check out you ethnic cleansing from a different perspective.

[Martin68]

30. Yes, Hamas is evil. Are all Palestinians evil? Do they all deserve to die?

[intrepidity]

2. Seems so many have somewhat forgotten the precipitating event

Not to mention the promise for repeat performances.

[JI7]

6. They haven't forgotten it. They think it was justified.

[Irish_Dem]

8. Yes we witnessed a masterful propaganda strategy right away.

A well planned, executed and funded brutal attack against Israel, followed by an immediate
large and sophisticated propaganda campaign to make the attackers look like victims.
And the victims look like the bad guys.

It was quite successful and well done. I wonder who planned it and paid for it?

[Martin68]

13. Do you question the truth of the video footage Congress viewed? I believe we all need to face the truth.

What Hamas did was truly barbaric. What the Israelis are doing is truly barbaric. An eye-for-an-eye in action. Very biblical. Punishment, retribution, vengeance - an entire city destroyed

[Irish_Dem]

19. I refuse to be drawn into Putin's well planned propaganda campaign.

He is totally brilliant to have pulled it off the HAMAS military and propaganda campaign.
He put the US in a no win situation.
And is drawing attention away from his invasion.
Making democracies look as bad as he is.

As brilliant as Putin is, I am not exactly dumb and not going to be
one of the ones manipulated by him.

[Martin68]

24. OK, now I'm concerned. Or maybe amused. I mean, this sounds like a joke, and it's pretty funny.

Last edited Fri Nov 17, 2023, 01:16 PM - Edit history (1)

Uu have jumped down the rabbit hole, my friend. And in your rabbit hole, Putin is at the bottom. Get a grip, dude.

[Irish_Dem]

29. Ad hominum attacks indicate a very weak argument.

Personal attacks mean you have no reasonable argument.

[Martin68]

34. Only if they are unfounded.

[JoseBalow]

36. "jumped down the rabbi hole"

Subtle

[Martin68]

41. Actually, that was genuinely a typo. I apologize for that.

I hadn’t noticed it until you just pointed it out. unintentioanaly very offensive. I’ve corrected it.

[GuppyGal]

26. +1000

[LexVegas]

10. Man, some people get salty when Hamas gets bad press. nt

[mcar]

18. Sure do

[Martin68]

11. I guess it bears repeating. What Hamas did is unforgivable. But it does not give Israel license to bomb the civilian

Palestinian population, killing hundreds of women and children, as well as men who have nothing to do with Hamas. If they do, it puts them on the same level as Hamas. The fact that those who drop bombs or fire missiles do not see their victims does not absolve them of the crime. The Israeli army must fight a ground battle hand to hand if necessary, incurring huge losses if they wish to “eliminate Hamas” and claim moral superiority. Unfortunately, there are those in the Netanyahu government who have publicly proclaimed their support for genocide. If more room for settlements (lebensraum) and avoid a two-state solution is the goal, then this is the way to do it.

[JoseBalow]

17. (lebensraum)

Subtle

[sarisataka]

21. About as subtle

As a brick through a window

[Martin68]

25. Not very subtle for anyone who knows their history.

[JoseBalow]

27. No, it isn't.

[madaboutharry]

31. I think someone went out of their way

to find the most offensive word they could find.

Having a conversation about the settlements is fair game. The Nazi reach is something else.
🙁

[Martin68]

33. I'm afraid we have entered a new era in which fascism is a real danger. Refusing to acknowledge that puts us

all in danger. Trump, Putin, Netanyahu and other authoritarian leaders are working to institute a new regime. Just look at statements from leaders in Netanyahu’s coalition. This is not a joke or hyperbole.

[BlueCheeseAgain]

22. You used a term from Nazi Germany to describe Israel?

I'm trying to think of a benign reason for that. Can you provide one?

[Martin68]

28. Just look at the facts. Military dominance over neighbors, a demonized ethnic group, gradual incursion on the

land of a neighbor for “settlements,” Netanyahu’s abandonment of a two-state solution and encouragement of ever more “settlements," the creation of a ghetto with complete control over exit and entry, Netanyahu cynical playing Hamas against the PLA to prevent a unified Palestinian front that can negotiate a two-state peace with Israel. Can anyone deny that Israel is stealing Palestinian land for settlements? Can anyone deny that this war will accelerate the settlement process in favor of Israel? Netanyahu’s cynical administration includes numerous ulta-right extremist politicians who advocate for the total destruction and expulsion of Palestinians. At the same time, Netanyahu is fighting to control the judiciary and escape punishment for his crimes. The Devil’s Bargain. And Netanyahu might prevail because of the war he helped create. Even the military were demonstrating against his regime until this attack. Does anyone doubt Netanyahu is cynical enough to use the barbaric Hamas attack to help him gain complete control of the Israeli government? Is that going to benefit Israel? Netanyahu, like Trump, and numerous authoritarians like him all over the world are doing whatever they can to gain complete control.

[madaboutharry]

32. Your post would have been better without the gratuitous Nazi reference.

Seriously.

[Martin68]

35. I suggest you take the fascist aspect very, very seriously. Netanyahu is trying to gain complete control over the

judiciary to avoid imprisonment. Leaders in his coalition have made plainly genocidal statements. Netanyahu has cynically played Hamas against the PLA to make a two-state-solution impossible. Settlements on Palestinian land have been encouraged and defended by the military. If you do not see the fascist parallels, you re not paying attention. Thousands of Israelis were demonstrating against the government until the Hamas attack. What has changed? Hamas has distracted everyone from what Netanyahu is trying to achieve. it worked to his benefit. Hamas is evil. so is Netanyahu.

[madaboutharry]

37. Nazism is a step further.

Nazism lead to gas chambers and crematoriums. Using Nazi imagery and vocabulary against Jews is crossing a line. It desecrates the memory of victims of the Third Reich.

[JoseBalow]

38. That's very obvious

for anyone who knows their history.

[Behind the Aegis]

39. Holocaust inversion.

It is a favorite among a certain population and it is anti-Semitic, not that it matters to them.

"It desecrates the memory of victims of the Third Reich."

They DO NOT CARE!

[Martin68]

42. I never used the word Nazism, and I find it offensive that you would suggest I did. Italy and Japan

also had fascists regimes, and they did not include the horrors of the Holocaust. Please endeavor to keep the facts straight. I have accused Netanyahu of fascist tendencies. That is very different from accusing him of being a Nazi. Naziism is by definition anti-semitic. Fascism always chooses a minority as an enemy and construct conspiracy theories around them. Trump did that with immigrants, Mexicans in particular.

[madaboutharry]

43. I didn't say you used the word Nazism. You used the word "Lebensraum"

"The concept of Lebensraum—or “living space”—served as a critical component in the Nazi worldview that drove both its military conquests and racial policy."

You used nazi imagery and vocabulary.

https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/lebensraum

[Martin68]

44. You are stretching the point beyond credibility. You seem a bit confused about the meaning of fascism.

Last edited Sun Nov 19, 2023, 10:18 PM - Edit history (1)

I had no intention of accusing Israel of Naziism. I am, however, suggesting that there are strong elements of fascism in Netanyahu's government. If you would be so kind, could you tell me why you think Israels' support of illegal settlements on Palestinian land is different from the concept of "lebensraum?"

[moniss]

12. Something akin to waving

the bloody shirt. Of course there should be nothing but condemnation for what was done on 10/7. But is this video an appeal to emotion or is it something that supports reasoned discussion and deliberation going forward? It is a straw man argument to talk about equivalence when either side could go tit for tat back through over 100 years. 10/7 was not "justified" in any way shape or form by what came before nor is the massive bombing of a captive, dense population of mainly children justified by 10/7.

[Cha]

14. TY for this.. I wouldn't be able to watch. :(

[orangecrush]

40. Both sides

"Let's slaughter everybody, that will solve our problems"