Israeli forces interrogating dozens of stripped, blindfolded people

[Donkees]

By Al Jazeera’s Hani Mahmoud in Khan Younis, southern Gaza

Our source inside al-Shifa Hospital says there are about 30 people taken outside of the building, stripped of their clothes. They are in the courtyard of the hospital, blindfolded, surrounded by three tanks. There is one tank right at the front of the emergency department targeting any moving object inside these buildings.

Inside the specialised surgeries building, the commandos are tearing apart all the partitions, destroying all the walls between rooms, going to the basement, and calling out people one by one and interrogating them.

As we heard from an Israeli radio host, they said there are no indications of hostages.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/liveblog/2023/11/15/israel-hamas-war-live-israel-says-it-plans-to-raid-al-shifa-ministry

The BBC is carrying a report from Rushdi Abualouf in Gaza, who says he has spoken again to someone inside the al-Shifa hospital complex.

He writes:

Khader, a journalist who is at the hospital, says Israeli forces are going room to room, floor by floor questioning everyone – both staff and patients – and are accompanied by medics and Arabic speakers.

Displaced people who’ve been sheltering in the compound have been made to gather in the courtyard and some are undergoing security checks.

He adds that the Israeli military is in “complete control” and there is no shooting taking place.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2023/nov/15/israel-hamas-war-live-updates-israeli-military-al-shifa-hospital-gaza-operation

[malaise]

1. Do unto others as you do not want

them to do to you.
Do we actually learn from history?

Sickening

[yardwork]

35. One piece of history I hope Americans remember is 2016.

When propaganda from hostile outside forces influenced an American election and installed Trump.

I see it happening again.

[GuppyGal]

52. +1000

[inthewind21]

69. No

clearly not.

[RKP5637]

77. I fear what the 2024 election might bring. Imagine if Trump slithered back in. The guy

is monstrous.

[Donkees]

2. Some medical supplies were delivered:

The Israeli military’s Arabic language spokesperson has posted to social media images which the IDF claims are medical supplies, labelled in English, that it has delivered to al-Shifa hospital as part of its “targeted operation”.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2023/nov/15/israel-hamas-war-live-updates-israeli-military-al-shifa-hospital-gaza-operation

[Nanjeanne]

25. Silly question - but why English? Shouldn't they be marked in Hebrew or Arabic?

[PatSeg]

30. Good question

[Donkees]

39. Probably delivered from COGAT:

There is Arabic writing too, they probably just made the English side face the camera on the larger parcel.

(Coordination of Government Activities in the Territories | Implementation of civil & humanitarian policy in Judea & Samaria/Gaza Strip)

[inthewind21]

70. Well

A photo of English marked boxes is not exactly a confirmation of anything. I remember the photos released of the precise locations the US would find WMD's in Iraq. 20 years of war and fancy that, never found. But it sure got public support, because after all, we KNEW where they were , we saw the photos! The government or military would NEVER try to mislead us!

It amazes me how people, especially US citizens aren't hyper skeptical of any "proof" fed to them regarding ANY war in ANY location. I will NEVER forget the pin point photos released of the EXACT locations of just where Iraq was hiding WMD's. Our own government and military high ups held press conferences detailing specific items and exact locations complete with photos. And yet "we" STILL buy it all as fact.

[malaise]

78. Particularly this one in English

Makes no sense.

[Donkees]

81. It was from COGAT

Coordination of Government Activities in the Territories | Implementation of civil & humanitarian policy in Judea & Samaria/Gaza Strip |

Incubators, baby food, and medical supplies brought by the @IDF from Israel have successfully reached the #Shifahospital.
Medical teams and Arabic speaking soldiers are on the ground to ensure that these supplies reach those in need.
Our war is with Hamas, not the people in Gaza

Link to tweet

[Think. Again.]

3. Aiming TANKS at individuals....

...pretty well sums up Israel's 'defensive' approach.

[claudette]

4. Cruelty on

display. Shameful

[Donkees]

5. The latest from al-Shifa Hospital

1h ago (10:05 GMT)
We now have more updates from sources inside the facility:

The soldiers are using loudspeakers ordering young men to surrender themselves.
Israeli forces have blown up a warehouse of medicine and medical devices in the hospital.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/liveblog/2023/11/15/israel-hamas-war-live-israel-says-it-plans-to-raid-al-shifa-ministry

[Autumn]

47. They blew up medicine and medical devices in the hospital? That seems stupid, they are

obviously in control of the hospital.

[onecaliberal]

79. The medical supplies are Hamas.

[Autumn]

80. The medical supplies are Hamas? that makes no sense

[onecaliberal]

83. EVERYTHING is Hamas, it is the justification for killing ten thousand children as a response to a terror attack.

It makes a lot of sense to people here. I've been reading since the attack.

[Autumn]

96. I see what you are saying

[Tomconroy]

6. This is how prisoners of war are treated in any conflict.

[disablegamer]

7. So you admit Gaza is a prison for Palestine

[Tomconroy]

8. I admit Israel is engaged in a war started by hamas.

[disablegamer]

23. These were innocents at a hospital

Not soldiers

[Tomconroy]

24. They are being interrogated to determine if they are innocent.

How you can without any evidence make the assumption you are making is beyond me.

[disablegamer]

29. How would you feel if Americans were being

held like that who were just at a hospital.

[Tomconroy]

31. I'd be fine with it if the hospital was infiltrated by

Terrorists.
Now that I've answered your question how about answering mine: For the last two years Russia has been committing war crimes, bombing hospitals and randomly firing artillery at civilians. Why don't you post about that? Why do you single out Israel for your outrage?

[yardwork]

36. The silence is deafening.

[Tomconroy]

37. It's a question that's bothered me a lot. I suspect

I know the answer. I'm pretty down on this place lately.

[yardwork]

38. Unfortunately, I think DU is better than most other corners of the internet.

It's worse elsewhere, I suspect. But I'm definitely getting 2015 vibes. Not good.

[BannonsLiver]

40. Probably because they don't have a problem with all of that

Which is telling on its own.

[disablegamer]

46. Russia should be tried in court as well

I hate all war. Just cause I do not post on one subject doesn't mean I am not against all wars. I was against Iraq war when we the usa did what we did yet I wasn't a member of du at the time.

[yardwork]

59. Yes, we noticed that you and several other folks joined DU last month.

All of you are very, very concerned about what Israel is doing.

[disablegamer]

64. So you are saying I have no right to post or say my view about

Israel cause you disagree with my view point that war is wrong no matter where it is. Got it I see what is going on.

[yardwork]

68. Sounds like you're talking to yourself.

I didn't say any of that. Maybe you are responding to the wrong post?

[inthewind21]

71. There's

been MANY posts about EXACTLY that.

[RainWalker]

9. Innocent citizens aren't POWs however

[Tomconroy]

10. How did you make a determination that they

Are innocent civilians?

[RainWalker]

12. I saw the videos

The hospital is filled with children and elderly who are sick and wounded. I don't think anyone from Hamas would be sticking around given they knew days ahead of time that the hospitals would be raided. 3 days ago Israeli tanks were literally a block away. They'd be long gone.

[Tomconroy]

14. I saw a video last night of dozens of perfectly healthy

young men milling around and running through the hospital.

[RainWalker]

15. I've not seen that one

I'll go look. I just woke up and need coffee yet. Thanks for the tip.

[Tomconroy]

16. This is it.

Link to tweet

?t=Cp6h8SstkALensuadOEoZA&s=19

[yardwork]

32. Those don't look like hospital patients.

[RainWalker]

43. Thanks!

Interesting! Thank you for sharing.
It reminds me of Iraq when we went into Fallujah.

[yardwork]

44. What. A minute ago you were worried about children and old people in the hospital.

Now you're shown a video that seems to reinforce the allegation that Hamas is using this hospital as HQ, and you change the subject.

[inthewind21]

58. How

did you get that from just watching a video that all those people MUST be Hamas? I know it's confounding some how anyone inside a hospital could be anyone other than a patient or a doctor and all others MUST BE Hamas but did it ever occur to you that all those babies and kids most likely didn't check themselves in? So do tell, who are all those people who aren't patients milling around in American hospitals at all hours of the day and night? OMG they must all be criminals or terrorists! No doubt about it, I don't need any proof! Tell me again about the gullible MAGAS who fall for anything and ignore everything.

I have no idea who they are. And neither do you.

[yardwork]

62. You didn't watch the video, did you?

Look. I'm the first to agree that we can't draw any conclusions from videos. No context. Don't know anything about what's happening, right?

That caution applies to all the videos.

[inthewind21]

73. I watched it

What I see is a bunch of nothing but men franticly running around hearing what APPEARS to be gun shots in what APPEARS to be s smoke hazed place and not a single thing that clearly indicates the location is even a Hospital. So would I post this to back up a claim that there are Hamas fighters imbedded in a specific location, that's a resounding NO. Same thoughts on the photos of all the medical supplies that were delivered. Photos of trucks with English marked boxes tells me nothing. If you want me to buy medical supplies were delivered then show me photos of the actual delivery at the actual location. Not just random photos of a truck that is located who knows where.

[yardwork]

74. And that's exactly what I see when posters here point to other videos

That they claim prove various atrocities being committed by Israel. It's exactly my point. We can't make conclusions based on random videos.

We know damn little about what's going on. There are few verifiable facts.

[inthewind21]

75. Oh

there ARE verifiable facts. Problem is, the public isn't getting the "proof" of said facts. And THAT is by design.

[yardwork]

76. And you know this how?

[inthewind21]

87. WOW

So there are no verifiable facts? Just wow.

[yardwork]

88. I see you edited away your comment about propaganda.

Yes, propaganda exists. And, again I ask how you know what you posed above:

there ARE verifiable facts. Problem is, the public isn't getting the "proof" of said facts. And THAT is by design.

[BannonsLiver]

57. Sure thing, Alexander

[Chainfire]

22. If they reside in Gaza they are terrorists?

The first step to a pogram is to dehumanize the victims.

[FBaggins]

26. You must have clicked "reply" on the wrong post

Do let us know when you find someone actually making the claim of your strawman

[Chainfire]

41. Do you have anything other than insults to add to the conversation?

[FBaggins]

53. Like your strawman claim above...

... these insults appear to be imagined on your part.

Pointing out that nobody has said what you claim is not an insult.

[Chainfire]

54. I see that you don't.

[FBaggins]

11. So?

What part of the reporting says that these are innocent civilians?

[RainWalker]

13. What part doesn't?

Have you watched the videos coming out of Al-Shifa? The hospital is filled with children and elderly who are wounded and in need of care. I don't believe Hamas would stick around knowing days ahead of time the hospital would be raided and Israeli tanks were literally a block away 3 days ago.

[FBaggins]

17. That's what passes for logic today?

There are reportedly hundreds/thousands of people other than patients and doctors who are on hospital grounds. This report says that the IDF is interrogating two or three dozen people - and you think that justifies a claim that they're innocent civilians and AJ just missed reporting that fact despite it being newsworthy?

I don't believe Hamas would stick around

Despite reporting that several of them were just killed in fighting there? I suppose those were really innocent civilians too?

[RainWalker]

20. Innocent civilians have been killed

And I have seen the reports of Israel shelling the hospital which is a war crime.

Israel interrogated nurses and doctors too. That doesn't mean they're Hamas. And stripping people buck naked with tanks aimed at their heads, destroying medicine, MRI machines, medical supplies, radiology equipment is ridiculous.

Let's not become seperated from our humanity.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/14/world/middleeast/israel-gaza-al-shifa-hospital.html?unlocked_article_code=1.-kw.x0Cd.GcYBaJ9bF5lS&smid=tw-share]

Minutes after 1 a.m. Friday, as active fighting raged between Israeli forces and Hamas militants, a projectile streaked over Gaza’s largest medical complex and crashed into the center of the courtyard of Al-Shifa Hospital, a place where thousands of displaced Gazans had sought shelter.

It landed just a few feet from Ahmed Hijazi, a social media personality who has been documenting the conflict. He filmed a video of the projectile flying in, and then of a man in agony, his leg mangled by the impact.

Snip ahead - Hours after the final blast, the Israeli military blamed unspecified Palestinian militants, saying a “misfired projectile” aimed at Israel Defense Forces troops deployed nearby had instead hit the hospital.

But at least three of the projectiles that struck it appear to have been Israeli munitions, according to pictures of weapons fragments collected and verified by The New York Times and analyzed by experts.

[FBaggins]

27. But not targeted

Such a clear distinction between the two sides

[RainWalker]

42. Definitely targeted

What else is shelling a hospital?
There's numerous accounts with video proof of civilians being targeted by the IDF and it's gone on for years. All you have to do is look at the West Bank for examples of that happening.

[FBaggins]

49. That's your notion of shelling a hospital?

A couple of shells that are not definitively misses by Palestinian forces is not evidence of "targeting" and "shelling". The buildings that the IDF targets don't often remain standing.

[lapfog_1]

63. if a modern military was in close proximity to a hospital. armed with USA developed weapons

targeted a hospital, there would be nothing left of the hospital now.

From the videos posted in this thread, that is clearly not the case. Plus, for all the lack of fuel and power, there seem to be a lot of interior lights on.

That the IDF is rounding up men of fighting age and stripping them with tanks nearby is not surprising either. Terrorists, especially in that region, are very fond of suicide bombs... stripping the young men is a good way to check for weapons and bombs. Doing so from inside a tank gives some protection to the IDF carrying out this mission from a terrorist attack.

I didn't see anyone claim that the IDF was killing these people.

As for interrogation... I am against all forms of torture... but asking hard questions of potential terrorists, I have no problem with that.

[yardwork]

33. What do you think of the video in post 16?

[FBaggins]

45. Hard to draw a conclusion from it

It's labeled as being inside the hospital last night... and a handful of people appear to be in what might be uniforms related to ambulance or non-doctor/nurse hospital staff. But that would be inconsistent with recent claims that the hospital is out of power.

They certainly don't appear to be injured women and children needing medical care. Are they Hamas? I doubt that we would be able to tell... but they do strike me as good examples of the candidates for some sort of identification/evaluation prior to being released since they obviously aren't patients or medical staff.

[yardwork]

48. Looks like I replied to the wrong post.

I was curious about the thoughts of a poster who is talking about some other videos.

[Autumn]

51. Doctors are begging them for fuel to take care of the patients. They are not getting any. They

have no water and the Israelis are blowing up medicine and medical devices stored in the hospital . The patients are not prisoners of war.

[elias7]

84. You do realize that Hamas is hoarding hundreds of thousands of gallons of fuel that could run generators?

And Hamas is actually operating from within a hospital(s)? And that Israel has offered to transfer the babies to Israeli hospitals, which are world class?

Please take a step back and realize there is a war going on and really think hard about who is doing what specifically.

[Donkees]

18. Breaking - Israeli army detaining 200 Palestinians in al-Shifa

Sources from inside al-Shifa Hospital in Gaza City have told Al Jazeera that Israeli forces are holding more than 200 Palestinians in the yard of the complex.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/liveblog/2023/11/15/israel-hamas-war-live-israel-says-it-plans-to-raid-al-shifa-ministry

[Tomconroy]

28. Good.

[Donkees]

19. Israeli forces are still operating inside al-Shifa hospital

A senior official with Gaza’s Hamas-controlled health ministry says Israeli forces are still operating inside al-Shifa hospital, the territory’s largest, hours after entering it early Wednesday.

Speaking by phone from the hospital, Munir al-Boursh told AP Israeli soldiers ransacked the basement and other buildings, including those housing the emergency and surgery departments.

“They are still here … patients, women and children are terrified,” he said. He said doctors vowed to stay with their patients “till the end.”

Al-Boursh called for the United Nations and the International Committee of the Red Cross to secure a safe corridor for patients, medical staff and displaced families trapped in the facility to leave.

Al-Boursh said an Israeli official spoke with him by phone early Wednesday and asked him to join the forces searching the facility, but he refused.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2023/nov/15/israel-hamas-war-live-updates-israeli-military-al-shifa-hospital-gaza-operation

[FBaggins]

21. They should probably get used to that fact

There are likely to be IDF forces in and around the facility until the conflict is over.

[RubyRose]

60. At least until

The IDF proves one way or another whether there’s a Hamas HQ built under the hospital or not.

[yardwork]

34. I don't understand the point of this concern.

Hamas attacked Israel, and now Israel is retaliating. Hamas is using a hospital as a headquarters. What is Israel supposed to do?

It's terrible that all these civilians are being harmed, on all sides. We used to say that "war is not healthy for children and other living things."

This looks to me like a well-orchestrated public relations campaign designed to make Israel look bad, thus creating a wedge issue dividing Democrats on the eve of the 2024 election.

It feels exactly like 2015-16 over again. What are your thoughts on this?

[David__77]

50. My thoughts are there is a fascist racist government in charge of Israel trying to make civilian life impossible in Gaza

[yardwork]

56. I think there is general agreement on that among most people.

Netanyahu's administration has caused great harm. However, here we are. Hamas still has thousands of Israeli hostages - including children and old people - they won't return. Hamas has set up HQ in hospitals and civilian neighborhoods. Hamas states over and over that their goal is to destroy Israel and kill all Jews. Israel is going to respond. They're at war now.

I see nothing to cheer. And I certainly don't blame President Biden.

[inthewind21]

65. They do

not have "thousands of hostages" They have about 240 and Israel hasn't disputed that number. Any hostages at all is bad but there's no need to wildly inflate it.

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/what-do-we-now-about-hamas-hostages-2023-10-19/

And I keep hearing about how Hamas is using hospitals, Hamas is using neighborhoods, Hamas is using schools as shields. Know what I HAVEN'T heard a peep about. I haven't heard a single report that out of the 11,000 already killed any accounting of how many of those if any, are Hamas fighters. Why is that? The ONLY thing I could find was the claim the the IDF killed 1500 Hamas fighters ON October 7th. So, all this bombing and killing and claims Hamas is using the citizens as shields and out of all the dead no Hamas? You find that a bit odd?

[yardwork]

66. Thanks for the correction.

What do you think Israel should do about their civilians being held by Hamas?

[inthewind21]

82. Doesn't

matter what I, or anyone else thinks Israel SHOULD do. Israel will do what they are going to do. And none of us on a message board, or anywhere for that matter will alter that. See the US Invasion of Iraq as an example. So the constant asking of "what should Israel do" is an exercise in futility.

Now I'll ask a question, after 38 days of bombing and thousands dead, and still 240 hostages held and nothing indicating Israel is "winning" against Hamas, how many reports have you heard about all the Hamas fighters killed/captured since the bombing began? How long do you continue the current plan and how many have to die before you realize it's not achieving your stated goal? It took the US 20 years to figure out that very question and about 24 hours to completely forget.

[yardwork]

85. Um, read your post again.

I'm your first paragraph you point out, accurately, that we're not in charge of Israel.

In your second paragraph you address me as if I'm Israel:

How long do you continue the current plan and how many have to die before you realize it's not achieving your stated goal?

[inthewind21]

90. I did

I wrote it. I'm sorry your weren't able to figure out the YOU was Israel. Forgive me, I wasn't aware you personally had a hand in Israel's war planning.

[yardwork]

91. Then why are you asking me?

[sarisataka]

89. Enough irony

To build a battleship

[Arazi]

92. Hamas doesn't sort out the civilians from the terrorists

They believe ALL of the Palestinian population is arrayed against Israel/Jews and thus they’re all “resistance fighter” deaths.

They refuse to sort out combatants in the death counts. It’s one of the big reasons the Biden Admin has framed their answers about Hamas’ count as “unreliable”

[LauraInLA]

97. I wondered why he refused to go along with the IDF as a witness. EOM

[Chainfire]

55. I wonder if Israel considers these people "prisoners of war?"

[lapucelle]

61. Qatari state-run Al Jazeera is an unreliable source for news.

============================================



=============================================



=============================================

[inthewind21]

67. But

Twitter is!

[lapucelle]

94. Twitter and Al Jazeera are both unreliable sources of news. N/T

[TwilightZone]

86. As the text indicates, the issue is with the opinion/editorial side.

As with many media outlets, they're two different things.

News reporting is generally factual. Opinions are just that, opinions. The opinion/editorial side of many, if not most, media organizations, is often more overt in its bias.

Al Jazeera's news reporting is pretty reliable.

https://adfontesmedia.com/al-jazeera-bias-and-reliability/

[lapucelle]

93. The text indicates that the source has failed fact checks, a mixed record for factual reporting,

limited press freedom, and medium credibility.

[leftstreet]

72. DURec

[Arazi]

95. I just don't have a problem with this

Sorry but this is a war and Hamas terrorists have chosen to mingle with civilians (and wounded) in the hospital.

Furthermore there’s decades of Palestinian suicide bombers wearing explosives amongst civilians to inflict maximum casualties.

Israel would be idiots to trust anyone there imo