Biden: Israel's Gaza operation will end when Hamas no longer able to murder Israelis

[Beastly Boy]

Biden said Hamas has been proven to have HQ and weapons below Shifa and other hospitals.

US President Joe Biden again firmly aligned himself late Wednesday with Jerusalem’s position on the duration of the war against Hamas, saying Israel can go on until it achieves its goal of eliminating the Gaza-ruling terror group’s ability to endanger Israelis.

In a televised press conference following his long-anticipated meeting with China’s Xi Jinping, Biden said Israel’s operation in Gaza, following the shock Hamas massacres in southern Israeli communities last month, “will end when Hamas no longer maintains the capacity to murder, abuse, and do horrific things to the Israelis.”

--snip--

Biden said Israel was taking risks in operating around Shifa Hospital in Gaza City, but “one thing has been established: Hamas does have headquarters, weapons, materiel, below this hospital, and — I suspect — others.”

https://www.timesofisrael.com/biden-israels-gaza-operation-will-end-when-hamas-no-longer-able-to-murder-israelis/

[republianmushroom]

1. There it is, some will not like it, but that is it.

[Mountainguy]

3. Yup

I bet there will still be folks on this site that believe obvious Hamas Twitter accounts saying they're aren't.

[Think. Again.]

9. Some?...

...the majority of Democratic voters want a ceasefire.

Biden obviously has his reasons for taking this election risk, and despite my disagreement with him on this very grave issue, he still has my vote in 2024.

I just hope he finds time to explain why he doesn't feel that a peaceful way to stop hamas is not on the table.

[republianmushroom]

12. Yes, some not all.

the majority is not all, but some, if, it is the majority.

[Think. Again.]

15. I guess...

...but I've always thought that some=less than half and most=more than half.

[EX500rider]

17. Yes like that peaceful way to stop Hitler or Isis

🙄

[Think. Again.]

20. isis still exists and so do nazis.

[EX500rider]

23. Yes but neither control countries or part of countries like they did

[Think. Again.]

25. I believe hamas must be ended entirely.

And I believe the only way to do that is to, somehow, end the ideology behind hamas.

And no, I am not in any way capable to tell you how that can be accomplished, but there are people who could.

[kelly1mm]

28. What would you propose is a 'peaceful way to stop hamas'? nt

[Think. Again.]

31. Not a military, technology, financial, psychological, or international expert...

...sorry.

Perhaps ask one of those?

[kelly1mm]

32. Since basically nobody, including those who are experts in the subject matters you listed,

has publicly set out a 'peaceful plan to stop hamas' I will assume you are OK with Israel continuing its war against Hamas until then?
I mean you can't really be saying 'I know of no known peaceful plan to stop hamas but I really, really think that some smart people somewhere absolutely know what will work but are just for some unknown reason keeping it a secret'?

[Think. Again.]

34. How would we know...

...if any ideas have been discussed?

Because if the people making these decisions have only considered one option, a heavy-handed bomb everything approach, without considering any other options, they probably shouldn't be in their jobs.

But obviously, there is rarely ever only one way to do anything anyway, thats just common sense.

[kelly1mm]

37. Until a plausible plan to peacefully stop hamas is made public I will assume that there isn't one. Of

course you are free to believe that there is one but it is being kept secret for some reason ...... i guess.

[Think. Again.]

39. I think we're in argreement...

...we're both waiting for a plausible peaceful plan to happen.

[kelly1mm]

41. I would LOVE a peaceful plan to stop hamas. This war is tragic and civilian deaths on both

sides doubly so.

One 'plan' could be that Hamas releases the hostages, turns over the terrorists that crossed into Israel and those who planned the attack and denounced terrorism going forward.

But I said the plan needed to be plausible and Hamas is a terrorist organization with a stated goal of removing jews from all of what they call Palestine (aka 1948 boarders/from the river to the sea) so that plan is not possible.

[Think. Again.]

42. Another plan might be to...

...have a country other than Israel work with Gazan civilians as a sort of spy network that might expise hamas weakness or at least the true locations of their major weapon stashes and communication structure.

But that woukd be extremely risky to ask any civilians to do, they would be risking more than just their own lives if suspected of that.

And I've wondered if our satellite imagery might help target hamas rather than the broad field Israel has been targetting, it seems Israel, despite all our military aid, can't pinpoint the most important targets for some reason...

[Beastly Boy]

38. The majoriy of Democrats may want a cease fire, but how many want

Hamas to be able to murder Israelis?

[Think. Again.]

40. None. I hope....

...but why would you ask such a question? Are you suggesting there might be Democrats who WANT hamas to be able to murder Israelis?

Do you have any reason to believe that?

[Beastly Boy]

46. My reference was to the OP header

"Israel's Gaza operation will end when Hamas no longer able to murder Israelis"

While I assumed your numbers to be accurate, I didn't find them relevant to Biden's remarks, just as I didn't take the "some" reference in the post you replied to had any statistical significance.

This was my way to bring attention to the fact that a desire for cease fire has no correlation with disliking Biden's remark.

[Cha]

2. TY, Beastly Boy & Pres Biden.

Is there a link?

[Beastly Boy]

4. Thanks, sorry about the link. Just added it on edit

[Cha]

10. No worries!

[RockRaven]

5. IOW, never.

If that is the standard, it will never be met, b/c it can never be met.

[Lonestarblue]

6. Hamas is a terrorist organization, and expecting to eradicate every one of them is foolish.

Al-qaeda and ISIS both still exist even after years of trying to destroy them. And Israel’s vengeful bombing of civilians in Gaza is simply recruiting more militants for Hamas. The better way to damage Hamas is to go after its funding and its means of importing weapons. No money, no weapons. The IDF and Natanyahu know this, but they will continue their bombing of innocent civilians because no one will stop them.

[Mosby]

13. Bibi let humanitarian aid into Gaza for years.

And that's been weaponized by Bibi AND his detractors.

Israel was attacked by Hamas, and yet you characterize their response as "vengeful".

Do you think there is any circumstance where Israel has a right to defend itself?

If defending your country radicalizes the aggressors, do you acknowledge that it also radicalizes the citizens of said country?

Does this violence create militants on both sides or just Palestinians?

[kelly1mm]

29. I stand with President Biden on this and don't appreciate you calling a sitting Democratic President foolish. nt

[Lonestarblue]

45. I did not call President Biden foolish.

He is maintaining necessary relationships with Israel. What is foolish is expecting to eliminate Hamas by continuous bombing of Gaza because far more innocent Palestinians will be killed than Hamas, which has leaders in other countries. They may be weakened, but they unfortunately will not be eliminated.

[kelly1mm]

49. Is the following statement foolish in your opinion:

Biden said Israel’s operation in Gaza, following the shock Hamas massacres in southern Israeli communities last month, “will end when Hamas no longer maintains the capacity to murder, abuse, and do horrific things to the Israelis.”

Yes or no?

[GuppyGal]

56. It's like having Isis living in the next state ...that's what Israel faces. WTF is so hard to understand about this?

[rollin74]

7. Thank You President Biden!

Last edited Thu Nov 16, 2023, 03:21 PM - Edit history (1)

[JohnSJ]

8. The problem is they have not yet established Shifa Hospital

is a Hamas headquarters.

We need to see how things develop, but the press is rumbling that so far convincing evidence has not been supplied to them that Hamas had a base there.

On the one hand the resistance encountered indicates something was going on, however, unless it can be shown that there are tunnels, significant arsenals, etc., there will be a lot of pushback on why they needed to occupy the hospital

[Beastly Boy]

14. Biden says they did.

From the same artile:

Biden said Israel was taking risks in operating around Shifa Hospital in Gaza City, but “one thing has been established: Hamas does have headquarters, weapons, materiel, below this hospital, and — I suspect — others.”

[JohnSJ]

16. It doesn't matter, that still has not been presented publicly, and until that happens

and has been verified, I wouldn’t count on it being accepted by the international community.

[Beastly Boy]

19. Biden accepted it. I trust he has verified evidence. I am good with waiting for the international community to catch up.

[JohnSJ]

22. He is relying on his source in Israel for that, and that source may

not be accurate. The IDF soldier who spoke to BBC indicated they haven’t confirmed anything yet, and it is a continuing operation. They “believe” they will find the evidence

Regardless, Israel needed to remove Hamas from power for the simple reason of the real threat they poise.

Many critics, but no solutions how Israel should do that, and Israel is doing what it believes is necessary.

The irony is when Syria killed over 25000 civilians in Hana, silence. When Syria used nerve gas in another town, silence, when Jordan attacked and killed Palestinians in refugee camps in the 60’s silence, etc. but when Israel respond to an attack of their civilians…….

Of course this has nothing to do with antisemitism

[CincyDem]

26. I'm in the camp that says the guys with the biggest intel orgs in the world probably knows...

…a chit load more than us. I don’t have any reason based on Joe’s history to doubt his word. I have, at times, disagreed with his decisions but I have never felt like he’s lied. If he’s making the call, I’m good with it.

That want out of style in the WH on 1/21/21.

[ShazzieB]

44. Same here.

Joe is privy to a freakton of information/intelligence that we know nothing about. I can easily believe that he knows a lot that randos on the internet and even professional journalists can only guess at.

I realize that trusting any politician is not a popular stance these days, but there are some I do trust, and Joe Biden is at the top of that list.

[CincyDem]

47. Hey! Who you calling an internet rando...I resemble that remark !!!

[ShazzieB]

50. I resemble that remark, too!

I was definitely including myself in that, even though I didn't say so!

[BlueTsunami2018]

11. As it should be.

Israel has no choice but to eliminate Hamas entirely. The people of Gaza certainly won’t do it, though it’s in their best interest to do so. If they want peace, get rid of those fucks.

[Model35mech]

18. The Palestinian grievances will probably never know an end date.

Modern history says it will come back again and again.

And that history includes radicalization followed by violence.

[Beastly Boy]

21. This is not to say that Hamas is to be tolerated, right?

[Model35mech]

24. By whatever future name, a force that exerts aggression

on another country is not going to be tolerated by the target of that aggression.

In my opinion, until the grievance(s) are fully resolved the grievance(s) will very probably perpetually cause radicalization of those who feel aggrieved followed by escalating acts against the source of the grief.

[Beastly Boy]

27. This is not to say that terrorism and military response to terrorism are equivalent, right?

[Model35mech]

30. I'm talking responses of human nature, how that works is the pre-war

use of words to create the radicalization of one or more sides in the growing conflict.

Typically the radicalization has as its objective convincing others that they have moral authority to act on their grievance. Once radicalized, the act of "terror" no longer appears as "terror". Indeed, it is usually presented as some form of justice or 'balance'. With justification constructed, the radicalized aggressor(s) can proceed being able to argue they are not terrorists.

In conflicts with 2 belligerents, it's really quite common for both groups to propagandize, or lean into past propaganda, across widely varying spans of time. In Yugoslavia's civil war Christian and Muslim groups went back over a thousand years to recover and radicalize memories of past grievances.

Similarly but on it's head, when either side recognizes it is to some extent guilty of past grievous behavior, the past is either ignored or is selectively purged of information that woiuld serves the purpose of other the opponent's propagandization of it's population or the populations of 'allies', or multinational entities that could intervene with sanctions or withdrawl of support from old or prospective allies in the coming conflict.

[AZSkiffyGeek]

36. Lotta words to avoid answering the question

[Model35mech]

43. Like the too many notes that Mozart was criticized for using

I suppose.

But, I used the number of words I needed to say what I wanted to say.

You would have preferred me to have just said YES or NO?

[LexVegas]

33. A real leader! nt

[Autumn]

35. So as long as Netanyahu keeps Hamas in charge he can continue the war.

For years, Netanyahu propped up Hamas. Now it’s blown up in our faces

The premier’s policy of treating the terror group as a partner, at the expense of Abbas and Palestinian statehood, has resulted in wounds that will take Israel years to heal from

https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/

For years, the various governments led by Benjamin Netanyahu took an approach that divided power between the Gaza Strip and the West Bank — bringing Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas to his knees while making moves that propped up the Hamas terror group.

The idea was to prevent Abbas — or anyone else in the Palestinian Authority’s West Bank government — from advancing toward the establishment of a Palestinian state.

Thus, amid this bid to impair Abbas, Hamas was upgraded from a mere terror group to an organization with which Israel held indirect negotiations via Egypt, and one that was allowed to receive infusions of cash from abroad.

Hamas was also included in discussions about increasing the number of work permits Israel granted to Gazan laborers, which kept money flowing into Gaza, meaning food for families and the ability to purchase basic products.

[Beastly Boy]

51. Something I found heartening today:

https://www.timesofisrael.com/poll-finds-netanyahu-would-be-pummeled-by-gantz-were-elections-held-today/

A survey published Thursday found that the Benjamin Netanyahu-led coalition that won 64 seats in the November 2022 elections would crash to just 45 seats in the 120-strong Knesset were elections held today.

The anti-Netanyahu, so-called “change” parties would soar to 70 seats, with the Hadash-Taal alliance winning the other five, Channel 12 reported. Benny Gantz’s National Unity party would win 36 seats, the survey found, more than double the 17 for Netanyahu’s Likud.

The channel acknowledged that it was unusual to take an election survey during a war. At the same time, it noted that usually in wars, prime ministers got a popularity boost, while their survey showed the opposite

Netanyahu is sinking. He can't keep Hamas in charge if he is not in charge.

[WarGamer]

48. That's a long war then...

[The Magistrate]

52. Already Is One, Sir

Been going on for eighty years, with a couple decades worth of preliminary killings into the bargain.

Wars do not end till one party or the other is rendered incapable of continuing to fight, whether owing to collapse of political will, sapping of economic capability, or military ruin. It will always be some combination of these factors, but the blend can vary widely.


"When you appeal to the court of force, the one thing you must not do is lose."

[WarGamer]

53. Your definition of the end of a war is lacking.

Both sides can also come to an agreement that both sides find beneficial.

After all... even WW2 Germany surrendered with a million+ men still armed...

Thinking that Hamas will "disappear" is silly. And don't forget, every dead civilian creates another Hamas foot soldier when he grows up. This won't end with violence... if this keeps going on... eventually some organization is going to get their hands on a nuke and do something really bad.

Just my personal opinion... England should have NEVER given the land for Israel. One, it wasn't theirs to give. Two, it shouldn't have been done without the agreement of all the neighboring nations.

But it's a done deal now... and Israel isn't going anywhere so that's a starting point.

[The Magistrate]

54. You Will have To Name That Unicorn War, Sir

I am aware of some passages in the dynastic wars of Europe in the early modern era where the ruling families in contest held matters to a pitch that could be halted short of thorough victory, to avoid ruin of lands and people which were their property.

If you are claiming that Germany in the spring of 1945 had not met military ruin, economic ruin and lacked the will to keep fighting, I have to question your knowledge and judgement both.

You seem rather anachronistic in your view of the origins of the situation. By both law and customary usages in the early 20th century, England had every right to seek to gain advantage over the Ottoman by courting subjects of the Turkish Empire who did not want to continue in that state, and their patrons abroad. English forces in the Near East included Jewish and Arab bodies during the Great War. The organization which embodied international law at the time, the League of Nations, gave England a mandate to administer the area of the Jordan valley for twenty-five years, during which the place, like other such mandates for colonies of defeated powers, was to be prepared for self-rule. The division of the area west of the Jordan into Jewish and Arab zones, on which two states were to be erected (with Jerusalem made an 'international city' part of neither zone), was the decision of the United Nations.

Regarding England's policy in administering the Mandate, Mr. Churchill in address to Parliament during its early days stated that anyone who imaged Palestine was meant to become as Jewish as Manchester was English mistook the policy of His Majesty's government. By the closing years of the Mandate, Jewish militants (ancestors of Likud, in fact) took England as their chief foe, though fighting with their Arab counterparts did not go completely by the board. English authorities openly side with the Arabs at this time. Nobody gave the Zionists anything but a chance to make their aims stick, England certainly did not, nor did it ever intend to.

I am indifferent to the idea martyrdom is more powerful than the living body in arms. It is possible for a society and a culture to cultivate a desire for martyrdom among its members that steels people to the sacrifice their lives, but this is not some ineluctable, natural process: it is, rather, a sort of communal decision shared by many minds, and passed down generations. Just like an addict to stimulant drugs may come to the point of resolution to break behaviors and patterns of thought feeding addiction, so can a society and culture come to renounce the dark joys of nihilistic rage, and replace these with other urges. Minds may want to die, even believe themselves eager to die, but bodies want to live, and given half a chance will do so. Sooner or later, that will tell.

[WarGamer]

55. thanks for your reply, much appreciated.