Philosophical questions: Is unconditional loyalty to a cause a positive or negative trait?

[Chainfire]

For the approval and acceptance of the clan, should we wear blinders to social or political issues that are part of our basic belief systems? If a cause, any cause, can not stand up to question or criticism from its base, or its opponents, how deserving is it or our unconditional loyalty? Should we march blindly where our chiefs lead without question? Must we consent to anything or reject everything? Are we either lemmings or outcasts?

Democrats, generally, reject the death penalty on the basis (1) that state sanctioned murder is no better than the original crime, and (2) you can never be sure that your state is murdering the right person. To accept the death penalty has to be coupled with the knowledge and acceptance that some times the wrong person will be murdered by the state. It is a damn good reason to reject it. However, in times of "war" we find that the same people who reject the death penalty are able to justify mass murder for a variety of reasons, we hunt excuses and justifications. How does that make sense in a society that considers itself civilized?

Is the killing of innocent people to be accepted, without question, without dissent, in order to assure that you kill the criminals, or terrorists, or soldiers?

[no_hypocrisy]

1. It's possible to be staunchly loyal

and critical simultaneously.

[Chainfire]

2. It seems that some folks reject that out-of-hand. You are either with me or 'agin me.

[no_hypocrisy]

7. That was my father.

Black-and-white thinking.

I told him regularly when he was wrong and I became his enemy. He never trusted me. By contrast, my sister was the prototype of Ivaka.

[EYESORE 9001]

3. Perhaps the answer lies in whether you are serving a cause or a cult

So far, I’ve never surrendered my will to any cause unconditionally. A cause is a corruptible human construct, subject to intense scrutiny.

[Chainfire]

5. My cause can easily be your cult. My "freedom fighter" your "terrorist."

[EYESORE 9001]

9. And that's where unconditional loyalty serves as an indicator

of whether it’s a cause or a cult. That’s JMO.

[Lonestarblue]

4. I cannot betray my basic belief system to win approval from a clan.

As an example, I believe that all people should be equal under the law, and no amount of pressure will force me to change that belief.

I believe in ethical behavior, equity, morality, and human decency toward people and animals.

I believe that crimes proven in a court of law should have just punishment, not unjust punishment based on skin color. I believe that violence should have role in a civilized society.

I believe in education and its effect in helping us learn how to gain knowledge and assess it for truth and its relevance to our lives. Those are basic beliefs that I could not change.

When it comes to happenings in the world, I believe in gaining knowledge rather than just accepting one perspective as the only one that matters. It’s easy to take one action out of the context of an entire story and draw conclusions that simply lead to group think instead of exploring the facts. As an example, it is fact that over 30% of Republicans believe that the 2020 election was stolen. That is easily proven to be untrue, but the power of one narrative repeated many times leads to minds closed to the truth.

[Chainfire]

8. We have been cut from a similar cloth. However, In my case, I question everything.

[Walleye]

6. I believe women's rights are human rights

[Chainfire]

10. Of course. I have or had, grandmothers, mother, aunts, sisters, wife and a daughter I love(d) them

all, to believe anything else would be a betrayal of that love.

[Walleye]

11. I guess you could say that loyalty to that is unconditional for me. I don't know if anything else

[Chainfire]

12. I am in total agreement. Love is unconditional, however you can love someone and find yourself unable

to defend their behavior.

[Walleye]

14. Absolutely, probably happens to everybody at one time or another

[Freethinker65]

13. Single issue voters. Do not bother trying to change their minds.

[Martin68]

15. When individuals live in a location where they are potentially subject to random terrorist attacks, the

question becomes an existential one. From the safety of my armchair, I tend to feel violence should be a last resort. If I were on the front line, might I not favor any means necessary to eradicate a clear and present danger that threatens me on a daily basis? It has always been a dilemma in anti-terrorism warfare. All-out warfare tends to kill innocent people as well as the guilty, and create more terrorists in the bargain. But how does one root out a determined terrorist cult? Negotiation is not an option. Che Guevara wrote that the civilian population is the ocean in which guerrillas live, like fish.

During the Vietnam War, the US struggled with this conundrum. Efforts were made to build trust in the civilian population: "winning hearts and minds.” They utterly failed. How can Israel build trust in the Palestinian community? Building walls around them, shutting them behind checkpoints that can be closed at will, creates a ghetto that breeds anger and desperation. Destroying an entire city’s infrastructure when the civilian population really has nowhere to go perpetuates the endless warfare between modern military and terrorist clan.

I see intransigence on both sides. I can make a distinction between the Netanyahu government and the Israeli people, as I can between the Palestinians populations and Hamas. But it is the Israeli government and Hamas who are in control. How do we change that?

[Chainfire]

16. I don't know how to make it better but I sure know how to make it worse.