The End of Gaza's most beautiful neighborhood

[malaise]

https://www.bbc.com/news/extra/85JPWipoYZ/gaza_al_zahra

Around noon on Friday 20 October, the residents of the upscale Gazan neighbourhood of al-Zahra stood in front of the rubble and dust that used to be their homes.

Fridays were supposed to be special: the Islamic day of prayer marks the start of the weekend and in al-Zahra it meant falafel and hummus, coffee and tea, all served in spacious family apartments or villas by the Mediterranean Sea. Residents here knew they were luckier than most in Gaza.

But overnight, Israeli bombs had flattened 25 apartment blocks, home to many hundreds of people. Israel had been bombing Gaza for days in response to the Hamas attacks of 7 October, but al-Zahra had not been hit until now.
————
Nothing justifies this collective punishment.
These are war crimes

[jimfields33]

1. Hamas is a piece of work.

No more october 7th. They are responsible for all this. I think Jordan should arrest the Hamas leaders and send them to The Hague.

[malaise]

2. I have a lot of respect for you but Hamas is not responsible

for Bibi’s war crimes, collective punishment and genocide.

[RocRizzo55]

9. EXACTLY

[RandomNumbers]

37. You knew who the snake was. Why did you get it angry, then put your baby in front of it?

Didn't care much about your baby, did you?

In case it isn't clear, by "you" I am referring to Hamas. By snake I refer to Netanyahu / Likud (not all Israel). By "baby" I mean the actually innocent Gazans (not everyone in Gaza, but the babies, surely).
By "get it angry", I really mean "give it an excuse" by targeting civilians attending a festival and killing a whole bunch of them. (Or was that just made up and didn't really happen?)

C'mon man. There are innocents in Israel and Gaza. There are a whole lot of guilty. And neither are all on one side.

[True Blue American]

78. Agree!

[Happy Hoosier]

80. Hamas started this war. They are getting what they wanted.

That's not to excuse Bibi and Likud, but to pretend that this kind of thing isn;t EXACTLY what Hamas wanted is willful blindness IMO. They wanted to activate latent Antisemitism. They are succeeding.

[obamanut2012]

12. This "Well Hamas" flex y'all are doing isn't working any more

Not on here, not in the real world. Hamas are murdering fuckwads, but trying to blame the Israeli government's/Bibi's war crimes on them just makes folks look sad and desperate at this point. The Dahiya doctrine the IDF uses is a blueprint for literal war crimes.

[jimfields33]

14. At least agree Hamas should be brought to

The Hague. I hope you at least agree with that.

[BannonsLiver]

24. Good luck with that.

[jimfields33]

35. I think it's a reasonable request.

Why did South Africa request Israel but not Hamas? Isn’t that odd?

[Think. Again.]

39. I asked that question....

...on another thread and didn't receive a valid answer.

I'm not sure, but I suspect that since hamas is not represntative of a ICC member-state, no member can bring a ferreral of them to the ICC. Israel is a member-state though.

I could be very wrong about that and would appreciate any facts that shed some light...

[tritsofme]

41. Quite the opposite actually. Israel is not a party to the Rome Statute, but the so called "state of Palestine" is

Hamas is the government of Gaza, so if Israel’s referral wasn’t just theater, Hamas would absolutely be included.

[Think. Again.]

44. Interesting!

Thank you for clarifying that!

So yes, the question stands, why hasn't hamas been referred to the ICC???

Surely any one of the member states could have (should have) done that on Oct. 8th?

[obamanut2012]

47. I do nopt ahve to fucking say I am anti Hamas -- you didn't even read my post

Y'all just keep your flexing. It is really sad.

[BannonsLiver]

23. Yes, people who never had a problem with Hamas in the first place won't be impacted by that.

[Think. Again.]

38. I don't agree...

...that hamas is responsible for lives they did not take.

But I do agree that hamas leaders should be arrested, and tried for the lives they did take.

[womanofthehills]

54. Keeping people in an open air prison for 20 yrs

Could not have anything to do with this I guess.

[BlueCheeseAgain]

63. Sorry, I don't understand.

Are you saying that Hamas was acting on behalf of the Palestinian people when they carried out the October 7 attacks? Because Hamas committed the murders, not the general Palestinian population.

[LeftInTX]

69. That does not look like an open air prison!

More like a teen without a DL being "stuck in a town"

[SYGDeb]

74. Agreed

Yes. I'm sure collective punishment occupation..oppression... starvation and deprivation had nothing to do with any of this. Lol! 😂

[malaise]

6. That is frightening n/t

[Butterflylady]

8. Yes, they do and it is sad.

[leftstreet]

31. +1

[MorbidButterflyTat]

43. +1

It is sickening.

[oioioi]

50. +1

[David__77]

4. It appears that the intention is to cause mass homelessness.

It is unfortunate that there is no way out of the combat zone for civilians.

[malaise]

5. Makes it much easier for settlers

That is all

[David__77]

7. I cannot fathom the military objective of destroying that housing.

[Goddessartist]

10. Erasure.

It's horrific and yes, more war crimes.

[obamanut2012]

13. Wiki the Dahiya Doctrine

That is the objective -- a war crime that leaves everything in ruins.

[David__77]

18. That sounds pretty horrific.

I think there will be long term geopolitical implications including in the de facto rules in the conduct of war- sort of a reversion to a much earlier era in some respects.

[brush]

32. Not much different at this point from what Putin is doing to Ukrainian apartment buildings.

Bibi and Likud's over-compensating for their failure in not detecting and stopping the Oct. 7 attacks, maybe?

Trying to eliminated Hamas, yes, by all means. Blasting to smithereens non-combatant housing, no.

What's the agenda?

[obamanut2012]

49. What Putin does is literally the same as the Dahiya doctrine

[BannonsLiver]

26. Looks like the new buzzword arrived just in time for Christmas

🙄

[Think. Again.]

40. That's a little tone-deaf, christmas????

[obamanut2012]

51. This poster thread stalks me all over DU

I have known about the Dahiya doctrine since 2006, but this poster likes to follow me around and attack me and try and mock me. I actually think it's hysterical and very cute, because they think they are being all tough. I am to the left of them by quite a bit, whcih makes it even funnier and cute to me.

[Think. Again.]

59. I've had the same problem...

...from other posters on multiple threads, and I've seen it happen constantly to other members also.

I suspect they are not really interested in the mature, left-leaning discussions that DU is intended for.

I give you credit because I don't find it funny at all when it's done to me, but I won't be silenced or chased away that easily, and I'm glad you're standing strong too.

[BannonsLiver]

75. Plot twist

They don’t actually find it funny.

[Goddessartist]

29. Horrific!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dahiya_doctrine

"Some analysts have argued that Israel implemented such a strategy during the 2008–09 Gaza War,[9] with the Goldstone Report concluding that the Israeli strategy was "designed to punish, humiliate and terrorize a civilian population".[10]

[RocRizzo55]

11. That is exactly the plan

Eradicate everyone in Gaza, then settle it.

[GuppyGal]

15. IKR...Egypt didn't want them

[David__77]

19. Why would Egypt take Israel's refugees?

[Mosby]

21. Because that's what normal countries do with refugees

They are resettled in their host countries, all except the Palestinian "refugees" who are being used as a weapon for more than 75 years against Israel and the West.

That's why they have their own UN refugee organization, unlike every other refugee on the planet.

[David__77]

22. I don't see how millions of civilians are a weapon.

[Redleg]

42. Yeah, those Palestinians are real lucky duckies

they deserve to have their homes obliterated.

[Mosby]

56. The Egyptians, Jordanians and Syrians

Made them refugees when they failed to kill all the Zionists in 47-48.

And later the Palestinians elected Hamas to control the Parliament for the territories.



Actions have consequences.

[Redleg]

65. You're holding the Gazans accountable for the actions of others in the past

Or at least justifying their suffering.

[Mosby]

67. They've had 75 years to negotiate a permanent settlement

And they haven't, instead they embraced terrorism.

That's on them.

Are you and I blameless for Iraq? I didn't kill anyone nor did I vote for Bush. How about the overthrow of the government in Iran? Me and my family didn't have anything to do with that either.

The first step towards peace and reconciliation involves taking ownership for your mistakes, something that the Palestinians aren't even remotely interested in doing,in fact they still keep externalizing their locus of control, and create false historical narratives that absolve them of all responsibilities. Just look at what Abbas said recently denying that Israeli women and children were killed in the Oct 7th attack.

[Redleg]

71. I agree in part

The various leaders of the Palestinian people have done a terrible job in both governing and in trying to craft a two-state solution. I don't blame the entirety of the Palestinian people for these failures.

The Israeli government deserves a fair bit of blame here too. Recent administations have been downright hostile to the notion of a two-state solution and also overly permissable towards the movement of Israeli settlers into the West Bank.

[SYGDeb]

76. Beautiful neighborhood destroyed

Isn't it disgusting?
Leaving on foot. Children In their arms. Small sacks of whatever they could grab at the last minute... and carry.

Homes reduced to rubble. Not even knowing if they will be able to return. And the world remains silent.
Why is it that the pain of the Palestinians means so little to us? Shouldn't we grieve over the bloodied broken bodies of their children....as much as we grieve over the bloodied broken bodies of the Israeli children?

Why such bigotry and prejudice?

This only serves to make the world a darker place......

[GuppyGal]

27. Why would you respond with a question that had nothing to do with YOUR original post that I responded

to.

[womanofthehills]

55. There has been no way out of Gaza for 20 yrs

25 miles by 5 miles. Open prison. Can you imagine if your city was blocked off and you could never leave for your entire life.

[EX500rider]

61. Never leave?

Israel does not control all of Gaza's borders either as there is a Egyptian border
I wonder why Egypt lets less Gazan's across during peace then Israel?

In Aug. 58,600 people from Gaza were allowed to travel through the Erez crossing into Israel while fellow Muslim neighbor Eygpt allowed only 19,600 people to exit Gaza through Rafah.

[former9thward]

62. Not true.

About 20,000 people left Gaza a day for Israel before the current war. Mainly to work, or trade goods or for medical appointments. People were also allowed to leave for Egypt but in a lesser number. Not long ago I was at the Erez crossing and I saw a steady stream of people leaving Gaza for Israel.

[yardwork]

64. Thanks for this first-hand report.

I think a lot of the anger toward Israel comes from the mistaken impression that they are holding Palestinians prisoner.

[Happy Hoosier]

81. Not quite true...

My wife's University has at least one academic that come from Gaza that has a green card. At least the US accepts some Gaza residents.

[GuppyGal]

16. RELEASE ALL THE HOSTAGES NOW

[LexVegas]

17. Thanks to the barbaric Hamas. nt

[Mosby]

20. I thought Gaza was an open air prison?

Nt.

[Wingus Dingus]

34. They can't keep their shit straight.

[MorbidButterflyTat]

45. What does that mean?

When I lived in Norfolk VA, I remember driving through a neighborhood lined with giant houses with manicured lawns and obvious privilege. Right around the corner were slums with filth in the streets and boarded up buildings covered with graffiti.

I don't like the implication that people who recognize the humanity of other humans are somehow conspiring to appear more victimized than what is plainly visible to anyone willing to see.

Why some INSIST that civilian Palestinians deserve whatever brutality Netanyahu chooses to cause them makes me SICK.

[yagotme]

66. I believe his comment was directed at the idea that

Gaza is a poor, underdeveloped, open-air prison, where the population is barely existing. Except when it's not. "Upper scale" neighborhood, "prisons" that let the prison population go back and forth across the "fence", etc. HUGE thread on "open-air" prison floating around somewhere, if you missed it.

[LeftInTX]

68. It's not truly an "open air prison". More like "grounded for life"

Or like a teen who isn't allowed to drive. "Stuck in this town and can't go anywhere".

[BannonsLiver]

25. Upscale neighborhood?

That can’t be possible. Why, I read right here they were all poor and barely getting by because of Israel’s brutality.

[GuppyGal]

28. Did you and the others post this much when it was Ukrainian children with real war crimes?

Just curious

[brush]

30. It's over-retaliation. What can possibly be the reason for...

obliterating innocent, non-combatant housing? Is it revenge, is it Bibi/Likud's attempt, in their minds, to make up for their failure in detecting and moving to stop the Oct. 7 terrorist attacks?

The bombings sure aren't reaching Hamas terrorists hiding in their tunnels.

And just so no one gets me wrong, I believe Hamas should be eliminated and the hostages rescued as the IDF ground troops are beginning to do now by tackling the dangerous job of search and destroy in the tunnels.

The air strikes are not accomplishing that.

[obamanut2012]

52. It is the Dahiya doctrine

Used since about 2006. The IDF discovered their soldiers weren't great at all in urban warfare during the war with Lebanon, so the guy in charge, Dahiya, destroyed all civilian infrastructure so the tanks and IDF could go in and much more easily take over everything. Wikipedia has a decent entry on it.

And, even though my DU thread stalker is upthread saying this ia a new "buzzword" I learned, because he loved implying I am some pro Hamas person for some reason, I have known about this doctrine since the war in Lebanon, and have used it on here since the terror attack by Hamas on October 7.

[BeyondGeography]

33. Because bombing 'em into the Stone Age works every time

This is just as stupid as it is cruel.

[brush]

36. Yes, same thing Putin does in Ukraine. Blow up civilian housing.

[obamanut2012]

53. Yup, the Dahiya Doctrine

[malaise]

70. Nailed it

[SYGDeb]

77. BeyondGeography

It is stupid. And it is cruel.

[Bludogdem]

60. Gaza's most beautiful neighborhood

Is where hamas leadership lives. Not the common Palestinian.

[intrepidity]

79. From the article:

Al-Zahra was established in the 1990s by the late Palestinian Authority (PA) President Yasser Arafat as a place for staff and supporters. Locals say it still had strong connections with the PA, which is based in the occupied West Bank and is a bitter rival of Hamas.

Everyone we spoke to insisted that, to their knowledge, this area was as far removed from Hamas and its operations as it is possible to be in Gaza, which Hamas has ruled since 2007. “There was no military here,” one told us. “I don’t even think there were Hamas supporters living here.”

[SYGDeb]

72. The End of Gaza's most beautiful neighborhood

These are war crimes. And it is horrific. No one should be above the law. And that includes allies. Under no circumstances should we be funding any of this. It is shameful. Absolutely shameful.

[malaise]

73. Agree

And welcome to DU
Rec