General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsIs the main reason for antisemitism that Judaism is good and Jews are cool?
Call me crazy, but I look at Jews I know of, both in history and those contemporary with myself, and I see a pretty damned good cool-person-to-uncool-person ratio. Antisemitism is wrong, it seems, not only because it's wrong to be against peace loving, law abiding people of any profile, but because it's wrong to be against good.
elleng
(131,196 posts)Thank you.
Irish_Dem
(47,518 posts)You live on a river, watch over your birds on the river, take pictures of them and share the pictures.
Very cool.
Then tell us how the law works and explain things to us.
Very cool.
elleng
(131,196 posts)Mossfern
(2,570 posts)I'm Jewish and I don't consider myself as being cool.
More like eccentric .... but I don't think that has anything to do with my faith or culture.
TBH there are some not so cool Jews.
Cha
(297,799 posts)So cool in every walk of life.
But eccentric can be Cool.. I may be a bit eccentric.. Ill leave it to others If im cool or not 🕊️🕯️💙🌊🇺🇸🌈
arthritisR_US
(7,300 posts)my other mates!
Cha
(297,799 posts)We going to have a cool/uncool by Religion? Race? Sex? Country of Birth?
Basic LA
(2,047 posts)Although I know you're half kidding.
msongs
(67,462 posts)that unlike so many christians and muslims not once has any jewish person pitched his or her religion at me.
Maru Kitteh
(28,343 posts)Very awkward to tell that annoying coworker for the third time NO, me and my husband would not like to come to your Sunday meetin' thank you.
LeftInTX
(25,607 posts)As an Armenian, we also don't proselytize or have a history of conquering and converting. There are very few of us.
I don't think there is such a thing as an "Armenian missionary". Our church in Jerusalem is secretive to outsiders.
CincyDem
(6,407 posts)
the Holocaust has certainly left its mark.
In 1939, the estimated global Jewish population was 16.6 million.
By 1945, the estimated population was 10.4 million.
Today, were at 15.5 million.
paleotn
(17,989 posts)EYESORE 9001
(25,999 posts)Its not just a religion or an ethnicity or a culture. Its as though the sum is greater than the individual parts. Despite not knowing a single Jewish person until high school, I became aware of an outsized contribution to society relative to a small percentage of the general population. I came to appreciate a culture that placed value upon education, both in arts and science. In my youth I wondered whether Id be a smarter scientist or a funnier comedian if I were Jewish.
In my heart, I believe jealousy is the root cause of antisemitism. Economic jealousy that goes back for millennia. Its a point of shame for my own culture has a history of plunder whenever it perceives an opportunity. Start a war, take their shit. Subjugate indigenous peoples, take their shit. Conduct business with the Jewish community until they get a bit too prosperous, then attack them and take their shit.
TexasBushwhacker
(20,222 posts)If you believe that God is all knowing, and always has been, then you have to acknowledge that God chose to give his original rules, the Ten Commandments, to Moses, the leader of the Israelites. God didn't give them to the Romans, the Egyptians, or any other group. He didn't wait to give them to the Jesus or Muhammad. He gave the Ten Commandments to the Jews.
Now, I'm not religious and never have been, but this idea of deep seated jealousy is one I've read elsewhere. I think there might be something to it.
EYESORE 9001
(25,999 posts)They wanted the material wealth, not the religious foundation. Plunder the temple, leave the scrolls.
milestogo
(16,829 posts)but the one I am most familiar with is the Gospel of John in the New Testament. The other 3 gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke) could be called Hebraic in tone.
There is a book called Faith and Fratricide: The Theological Roots of Anti-Semitism (Rosemary Radford Ruether) which goes into detail on this. She lays bare the negativity towards Judaism that has always been latent in Christianity and which made it acceptable for Christians to accept atrocities against Jews during the 2nd World War.
raging moderate
(4,311 posts)Last edited Fri Dec 8, 2023, 09:57 AM - Edit history (2)
It states clearly that THE ROMANS KILLED JESUS AND THE ROMANS FORCED THE JEWS INTO COOPERATION WITH HIS DEATH! IThe end of the 11th chapter of the Gospel of John describes a private meeting between Jewish leaders, chief priests and pharisees. They are quoted, saying "What else can we do? If we let him alone....the Romans will come and destroy our nation." When the Jewish crowds are quoted playing along with Pilate's sadistic crowd-control games to pretend it was not his idea to crucify Jesus, people forget how vicious and dictatorial Pilate was. Of course, the conquered population would have learned to guess what the brutal conquerors wanted them to say, and to yell it loudly enough to avoid triggering the rampant narcissism of their oppressors. The Romans were vicious conquerors, and they did not hesitate to commit mass murder as necessary to keep all invaded countries terrified of them. The New Testament mentions several incidents in which hundreds of people were massacred by Romans, either hung on crosses to die in slow agony or slashed to death in the middle of religious services because they did not want the Roman eagle displayed in their idol-free Temple. Romans had committed similar diabolical atrocities in other counquered countries; in Carthage, the Romans massacred as many as possible and spread salt in the fields so nobody could grow crops there again. The Bible never states that the Jews crucified Jesus. This idea was inserted by antisemitic "might makes right" believers in racist authoritarianism.
paleotn
(17,989 posts)GreenEyedLefty
(2,073 posts)I think most antisemites have no idea what Judaism even is. They just have their ignorance, fear and stupid tropes.
JI7
(89,279 posts)and conspiracy theories against them.
JI7
(89,279 posts)the religions that came after. Especially Islam which is very anti Jewish. This is why they oppose a Jewish state.
JI7
(89,279 posts)Today christianity has moderated in the western world but that's also becsuse they just aren't very religious.
So they turn their violence against Jews .
Celerity
(43,587 posts)A Natural Act of Vengeance: Settler Violence and Two Types of Jewish Fundamentalism
https://www.sourcesjournal.org/articles/a-natural-act-of-vengeance-settler-violence-and-two-types-of-jewish-fundamentalism
snip
Post-Mamlakhti Hardal
The most prominent spokesperson and ideological strategist for post-mamlakhti Hardal is also its political leader, Israels current finance minister, Bezalel Smotrich. I will use his thinking as a framework to elucidate this groups agenda and sensibilities. After growing up in the West Bank settlement of Beit El, Smotrich now lives just outside the official borders of the Kedumim settlement, also in the West Bank, in a house that was built illegally. He is the father of seven and a longtime political activist. He was arrested as part of the resistance to the Disengagement Plan from the Gaza Strip in 2005, later organized the homophobic Beast Parade in opposition to Jerusalems Pride Parade, and, before entering politics, was one of the founders of Regavim, an NGO that attempts to monitor and halt illegal construction of settlement houses by Palestinians and Israeli Arabs. Yes, the irony is completely lost on him.
In 2017, Smotrich presented his master plan for resolution of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. In his Decisiveness Plan (or Subjugation Plan, the Hebrew title can be translated either way), he proposed to offer Palestiniansboth those who are citizens of Israel and those who live in the occupied territoriesthree options: surrender and agree to become residents with reduced voting rights; emigrate elsewhere; or resist and be subjected to the full force of the IDF. His essay uses practical and utilitarian language to present its case and to claim that this is the only realistic path that Israel can take. What it does not mention is that Smotrichs plan is based not on geo-political assessments but on an ancient Talmudic text. This can be learned from a speech he gave a year in August 2016, in front of an audience of like-minded Hardal Religious Zionists. In this speech, Smotrich refers to a rabbinic narrative according to which, when Joshua came to conquer the Promised Land, he sent three epistles to the peoples living in it, offering them the very same options that appear in his plan. Smotrich then further asserts:
In this speech, Smotrich displays the key characteristics of fundamentalist religiosity: a literal understanding of scripture that reduces a rich religious tradition into a rigid and simplistic framework; a uniform perception of history, by which what was true thousands of years ago is also valid today; and a desire to shape contemporary life according to ancient ways. Together, these produce a call for one-dimensional submission to the authority of the Holy Scriptures, which Smotrich demands of the IDF as well. Smotrichs actions further show that he has absolutely no hesitations in holding, let alone expressing, his beliefs. In October 2021, Smotrich shouted across the Knesset floor to the Arab MKs, Youre only here by mistake, because Ben Gurion didnt finish the job and throw you out in 1948! This statement underscores his conviction that the Arab inhabitants of Israel have no inalienable right to stay in their homes. In April of that same year, he expressed doubt about the legitimacy of Arab citizens of Israel voting in elections for the Knesset, writing in his Twitter account that, A true Muslim must know that the land of Israel belongs to the people of Israel. In time, those who dont will not stay here, and later stating that, Arabs are Israeli citizens, at least for now. In March 2023, after the display of Jewish violence in Hawara, he stated that the village of Hawara should be wiped out, expressing the principle from his Decisiveness Plan by which Palestinians who oppose the Jewish settlement of the land of Israel must be eliminated.
Take note: Smotrich wishes for all these policies to be implemented by the Jewish state. When describing his plans for Hawara, he took care to state that, The state should do it, not, God forbid, regular people, thus rejecting the actual means by which the village was subjected to the pogrom it suffered. Though he shuns most Israeli state institutions and civic frameworks, Smotrich nevertheless envisions a role for the state itself. For the post-mamlakhti Hardal, the state is the vessel for divine will in the world today, hovering, as it were, disconnected from its material existence and living populace. Revenge is a planned and regulated enterprise to be conducted by the (divinely imbued) state. Smotrich, and other post-mamlakhti Hardalim, seek a religious life that draws its authentic bona fides from a selective and literal interpretation of its scriptural corpus. The parts they emphasize tend to be either older (providing legitimization through seniority( or opposed to contemporary values (providing legitimization through differentiation). This type of selective interpretation of the Jewish tradition, dogmatic and uncompromising as it is, can now be found for the first time in the highest ranks of the Israeli government, giving it the political power it needs to change the face of the country. It is intolerant of different Jewish identities and of people who identify as LGBTQ (Smotrich once called himself a proud homophobe), and it creates an atmosphere in which violence toward Palestinians by extremist actors is considered acceptable, if not outright advocated. Given more power, the post-mamlakhti Hardal poses a clear threat to Israels democracy and to its liberal public sphere.
snip
related
Mossfern
(2,570 posts)Last edited Sun Nov 26, 2023, 11:02 AM - Edit history (1)
are polar opposite of those low-lives. They do not represent me or anyone I know.
They are a shonda to the Jewish people. The fact that Netanyahu supports them
infuriates me.
In philosophy, I consider myself a Reconstructionist and was active in that community for several
years. We had interfaith services and pulpit exchanges with other houses of worship in the area -
we learned a lot about each other and shared what we admired about each others philosophies.
I have to admit, as others in our community that Gospel music was absolutely more inspirational
and fun. Our 'minor' holidays are the neatest - especially Shavout and Tu B'Shevat.
OK,I'm rambling - g'night.
On edit: The low-lives I was talking about are the West Bank Settlers. I was half asleep when I wrote this post.
dembotoz
(16,864 posts)Behind the Aegis
(54,013 posts)I bet the Ukrainians are happy with that type of leader.
elias7
(4,029 posts)Because were holier than thou
NJCher
(35,764 posts)A class on Jewish leaders in the labor movement in America. Ive always been active in my teachers union and supportive of unions in general. The teacher for this class is a lawyer who is partially retired and enjoys spending his time researching this topic.
He told us about five major labor leaders who were non-religious Jews. A few of them were sons of major corporation founders and whose own children went into their familys factories and organized the workers! Now just think about this for a minute. What kind of an ethical sense would you have to have to do that?
Especially when you look out today and see how Starbucks and Amazon behave over unionization.
The story also amused me because I am pretty sure a nyc friend of mine did that upon graduation from Harvard. He told me he did union organization work but what he didnt tell me is he was helping to organize the workers in a company owned by his family.
Response to gulliver (Original post)
BootinUp This message was self-deleted by its author.
Behind the Aegis
(54,013 posts)Of course, despite NOT mentioning Israel, we can see any mention of anti-Semitism, and BANG...Israel. One would think people would learn not to conflate anti-Semitism and Israel. No, only nasty Jews do that.
I suggest "Jews Don't Count" and "People Love Dead Jews" as reading material that will really open your eyes to ancient anti-Semitism and its modern iterations.
EllieBC
(3,042 posts)Luckily most of their heads are completely empty so theres lots of space.
mucifer
(23,576 posts)We have amazing open minded people in our culture like JB Pritzker (proud to say he's my governor) and Adam Schiff (a Jewish vegan like me). However we do have crazy wackadoddle right wing hateful trumpies like jared kushner and stephen miller.
I love being Jewish.
One of my favorite Jewish joke (sorry I'm not great at telling jokes the way my dad was) is about Shlomo who is stuck alone on a desert island for many years. Shlomo is rescued. He gives his rescuers a tour of the island. He shows them the house he build. Where he forages for food. Where the best place is to lay in the sun. He shows them his synagogue that he built . They ask him that's your synagogue. But what is that other building down the way that also has a Jewish star on it? Shlomo says "that's the other temple. It's no good. Mine is the good one".
Irish_Dem
(47,518 posts)Last edited Sun Nov 26, 2023, 03:24 PM - Edit history (1)
Why have the Jewish people been targeted for so long?
I think you are right. They are a very cool group of people.
I was raised Irish Catholic, but have a close family member who married into the family
who is Jewish. I helped raise family children in the Jewish faith. So I attended
synagogue services for years and did all the Jewish holidays and prayers, etc.
Which I loved doing. My two best friends for years were two Jewish women,
but they retired and moved out of state.
I don't like stereotypes which box in people, but Jews are quite different from
white bread Christians for sure.
The Jewish cohort group is extremely bright. IQ is obviously at least one standard deviation above
the norm but usually higher than this. Also quite educated. It is a treat to be with such educated
and smart people. But they aren't the boring type of highly educated people.
Very friendly, outgoing, very verbal, excellent language skills, very social, hilarious sense of humor.
Strong pride in their group.
Witty, complex, nuanced, complicated, upbeat, fun to be with, never ever boring.
The only bone I had to pick with them is that it was impossible to go to a temple service and sit
by yourself and commune with God. I loved the Jewish services so much, the music, the rabbi's sermons,
the prayers, all of it I found wonderful, I felt transported.
Sometimes I just wanted to sit at the back of the Temple by myself, to get into a spiritual zone.
But this horrified my friends, who insisted I move up by them. If I didn't budge, they would come sit by me.
This illustrates the strong social structure, tight knit, very cohesive group. They couldn't wrap
their heads around someone coming into the temple and being isolated.
I hope I have not offended any one with this commentary. But if I have, I would love for you
to come argue with me. You have not really lived until you get into an big argument with a
group of very smart, clever, witty, verbal Jewish friends. So bring it.
ETA I am remiss in not mentioning the FOOD!
Always food, lots of it, everywhere.
Not much booze.
A big shock to an Irish Catholic.
Maraya1969
(22,507 posts)into the United States because he believed it was the land of opportunity. (He said that no one questioned him when he went to a SS Number.) He got a job in sales and made a lot of money. So they wanted to "Move on up" and bought a nice house in an affluent part of NJ. There were a lot of Jewish people there and my parents learned a lot from him. They would both say at different times, "The XXXXX's do it!" And then they would learn a little bit more and change the way they were doing something.
And I loved my new Jewish friends. I had a severe West Virginia accent and the kids would make fun of me, (not in a mean way). So I tried to talk like them. And I think that is one of the reasons I still have a big New Jersey accent after living in FL for the last 25 years. (I practiced it!)
Basic LA
(2,047 posts)She was Chippewa (Ojibwa), adopted as a baby by a Jewish couple in Detroit. And it was a kick to see this almond-eyed, high-cheekboned brunette beauty speak Yiddish like a pro. Mara was something, and I miss her every day.
Maraya1969
(22,507 posts)that there were so many Jews working in Hollywood with really good jobs and who made a lot of money. And he thought that was the reason so many people disliked the Jews. However he was happy and proud of his relatives and thought the other people were just jealous.
senseandsensibility
(17,164 posts)and as some on this thread have already suggested, felt that others were jealous of them. The ones I have known have been some of the most moral, caring people I have ever known. I won't try to explain the hate. It is irrational.