OK, it's cyber Monday. Who's going to do their part in undermining the brick-and-mortar businesses that pay taxes?

[Marcus IM]

Who needs a local, state, and national business tax base?

Who needs infrastructure supported by brick and mortar business taxes and rent?

I mean "everyone" knows that taxation is theft, right?

What communities need jobs for their populations?

I hear that UPS and FEDEX have partnered with Amazon and Temu to dig a hole for America with free 2 day shipping.

3 ... 2 ... 1... GO!

but not




http://www.postkiwi.com/2007/ups-whiteboard/

[leftstreet]

1. Ah, it must be Scold People on Budgets Week n/t

[Marcus IM]

3. Budgets because of low pay fomented by cyber shoppers? Or, the closing of B&M businesses that employ?

I have low pay, so I'm going to contribute to the low pay environment?

Naw. People are being put into dire straight because of this cycle. Complete with free shipping (from China).

[Hekate]

119. The books I order come from US and British vendors

[jimfields33]

2. Brick and mortar have separate days.

I do them all. I’ll admit that Amazon gets most but that just because of ease, financial and saving the planet. But they all get some of my money.

[llmart]

112. I'm curious

Are you saying that you're saving the planet by shopping? Conspicuous consumption is killing this planet.

[jimfields33]

114. Saving the planet using mostly Amazon.

More should have this awareness. I think many do.

[llmart]

115. What about all the packaging required to ship stuff?

It's not just Amazon. I have always had a problem with the amount of crap people buy that is so unnecessary.

[Hekate]

120. Good to know you're monitoring us. It's a fine old American tradition, after all.

[TwilightZone]

4. Cyber Monday doesn't mean you can't still shop locally.

A lot of local businesses have an online presence, so If you want to support local businesses by shopping there instead of elsewhere online, there's nothing stopping you. I often buy gift cards for local businesses online.

Also nothing stopping you from shopping locally in person. Just because it's encouraging online shopping doesn't mean it's required.

Besides, you should have shopped on Small Business Saturday already, if you're going to support local businesses. (joking, but not really joking)

Cyber Monday is not really any different than any other day, except for some sales, most of which are available many other times of the year, including the past several days/weeks.

[Gore1FL]

5. I get charged taxes for online orders.

I know people with a job at a brick-and-mirror Amazon warehouse that pays taxes.

I’m not sure I understand the rant.

[Marcus IM]

6. How many local b&m stores have closed because of it?

For every Walmart, there's about 50 to 100 small local business that get shut down.
Cyber shopping is even worse.

The average amazon warehouse worker salary in Florida is $32,175 per year or $15.47 per hour.
https://www.talent.com/salary?job=amazon+warehouse+worker&location=florida

Can't pay rent with those wages.

[A HERETIC I AM]

8. The fix for that problem is Unionization.

The workers need to realize that they can hold the companies feet to the fire and get a living wage and decent benefits by joining together in a labor union.

It's been done before.

[Gore1FL]

25. Technology changes the environment.

How many tax-paying wagon wheel companies went under when consumers started buying cars, instead?

[mahatmakanejeeves]

33. Not Studebaker. NT

[Marcus IM]

34. Yep. That's my point.

Although, comparing buggy whip makers to the masses of people put out of work by cyber shopping for their China-made is not that valid a comparison.

[inthewind21]

45. It's very

valid. Times change, technology changes. We change with it or get left behind.

[Marcus IM]

48. Changing with it is causing many to be left behind. Low wages. High rents.

We're not talking about a few buggy-whip makers. Ww're taking about masses of people working, but working low wage jobs - labor's wages pushed downward from authoritarian Chinese low cost labor as a direct competitor to local jobs, put upon us by Wall Street and their ingratiatory.

[inthewind21]

71. So

we should all be demanding the coal mines open back up, and the fossil fuel industry keep rocking on because after all, just look at how many jobs will be lost if we don't!

Your beef seems to be with low wages, which has NOTHING to do with online shopping, which by the way you can do with just about ANY B&M business now days. Welcome to the club, EVERYONE takes issue with low wages, except the business owner. Your claims about no state or local taxes paid on online purchases is completely false. And fyi, infrastructure IS INCLUDED in state and local taxes. Your claims that B&M businesses don't sell stuff made in China is completely false. They sell as much if not more in some cases. And newsflash, Low wages and high rents DID NOT get that way because of Online shopping. You're anger is aimed in the wrong direction using a very lot of false "information".

[Marcus IM]

93. Really? Online China-made outlets pay for occupational licenses? Professional regulation fees.

Health dept inspections? OSHA inspections? Water bills in your location. Police and fire fees that b&m stores do?

Perhaps owning a small b&m business would elucidate you as to the local and county tax base.

[inthewind21]

102. Oh boy

Online China made outlets? You mean like the brick and mortar Walmart, Hobby Lobby, Home Depot etc. Like those???? Oh wait, that's not the B&M you were talking about. OSHA and health dept inspections, well that depends on the B&M business, pretty sure Home Depot isn't getting health dept inspections and OSHA isn't showing up at the consignment Antique store down the road. You get a water bill for your usage of water, you don't use any, you don't get a bill. You have a building, you do get a bill. Gee, you think Amazon might have a building or two somewhere? As far as police and fire go, police get federal funds as well as local public funds, federal grants, fines and fees, forfeitures, and private donations. Fire department, they get funds from property tax, business tax, and sales taxes; federal and state grants; local fees and fines; and voter-approved general and special sales taxes. Guess what, you don;t have a building, you use neither service. So your rant about online not contributing to any of that are patently false. And you have no idea what I do, but I'll give you a hint, it involves LOTS of numbers. Perhaps you should hire a CPA to explain to you how it all works since you clearly aren't aware how something as basic as a water bill is generated. ALL business have taxes, licenses, and fees involved, no matter if B&M or online.

[mahatmakanejeeves]

125. How much did you pay for your last OSHA inspection?

I’ll be back after you’ve moved the goalposts.

Again.

[Marcus IM]

136. Are you back?

Prior to beginning to process a request, the component will make a preliminary assessment of the amount that can properly be charged to the requester for search and review time and copying costs. Where a component determines or estimates that a total fee to be charged under this section will be more than $250.00, the component will require the requester to make an advance payment of an amount up to the entire anticipated fee before beginning to process the request. The component may waive the advance payment where the component receives a satisfactory assurance of full payment from a requester who has a history of prompt payment of an amount similar to the one anticipated by the request.

https://www.osha.gov/laws-regs/regulations/standardnumber/70/70.43

https://www.myfloridalicense.com/intentions2.asp

[mahatmakanejeeves]

137. I am. Let me get to my laptop so I can address this random

Last edited Tue Nov 28, 2023, 07:26 AM - Edit history (7)

selection of paragraphs that you’ve found in the eCFR.

And good morning.

{Later, on the laptop, which is taking its time opening this morning, as its rightful owner reached out and installed some updated software overnight.}

For the uninitiated, the eCFR is the electronic Code of Federal Regulations. It has all the federal regulations (and other non-regulatory items) in one convenient location.

The table of contents is sorted by titles, fifty of them, give or take. Title 29 contains information on how the Department of Labor operates.

Here: https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-29

Since the Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) is an agency in the Department of Labor, that's where you'll find OSHA regulations.

Specifically, OSHA regulations are in Chapter XVII, which contains Parts 1900 - 1999. When an OSHA inspector comes by, he is looking to see that an employer is maintaining a workplace where there are no violations of the regulations in Parts 1900 - 1999.

Still with me?

The OSHA regulations are in "Subtitle B Regulations Relating to Labor." The paragraphs you have cut and pasted came from "Subtitle A Office of the Secretary of Labor," "Part 70 Production or Disclosure of Information or Materials." Let us read: "This part contains the rules that the Department of Labor follows in processing requests for records under the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA), as amended, 5 U.S.C. 552."

Part 70 sets out how much DOL charges to makes copies of documents in response to FOIA requests. It has nothing to do with OSHA regulations.

We're getting in sort of deep, so let's take a breather and let everyone else catch up.

Have you guessed by now that I can go on and on and on with how to find regulations in the eCFR?

Once again, good morning to you.

[mahatmakanejeeves]

138. Reply, part the deux.

Oh, if you don't want to wade through the eCFR, and I can't imagine why anyone wouldn't want to do that, seeing as how much fun I have doing it, the DOL paragraphs you quoted can be found at https://www.osha.gov/laws-regs/regulations/standardnumber/70 .

Well, if these aren't OSHA regulations, then why are they at OSHA.gov? Because FOIA requests are made of OSHA from time to time, OSHA personnel need to know how much to charge for the copying fees. That's why a DOL fee schedule shows up at OSHA.gov.

Google finds stuff, but it's not always the right stuff.

As for the Florida site you linked to, https://www.myfloridalicense.com/intentions2.asp , that's about Florida business licenses.

Are you in Florida?

As always, good morning.

[Happy Hoosier]

116. The point. You missed it.

Small B&M stores selling the same stuff as Amazon are obsolete. Pretending otherwise is a path to failure.

In order to thrive, they need to offer products and services not available from big boxes or online.

[ExWhoDoesntCare]

72. You're mixing apples and oranges

You're complaining about the loss of the tax base, but then moving the goal posts to the closure of brick and mortar stores.

How many closed over taxes paid? None, that's how many.

And you know what? Brick and mortar stores have been in trouble for a very long time now. Borders shut down *before* most states taxed online purchases--care to explain that?

What you apparently don't get is that the existence of Borders at all was a sign of an industry in trouble. If you knew anything about business, you'd know that the big chains coming into being weren't a sign of a healthy industry, but of a rapid *consolidation* of dying bookstores.

As it is, Amazon (or any other online retailer) is *not* the sole reason for the decline of brick and mortar stores. In the case of books, you can also blame ebook sales (even your precious B&N offers those), and Project Gutenberg, which has pretty much caused bookstore sales of classic works to crater--permanently.

I know this will flabbergast you, but people actually *like* being able to having an entire library available in the palm of their hand--same as what's happened to physical recorded music and films. Why buy CDs or Blu-Ray (or books), when you can get an electronic form of it that's much more portable? You do realize that ebooks have a ton of super-convenient features, like being able to set the font size to suit your vision needs, or having white letters on a black background (much easier on the eyes), or getting dictionary definitions of unfamiliar words and translations of foreign language phrases, on the fly...right?

Then there are the numerous darkweb sites that make available entire libraries of even the latest releases, for the negligible cost of downloading them. Governments keep trying to kill them, but new ones pop up whenever one of them does get shut down. It's a battle the book industry will never win. I mean, that infamous Ahoy Matey site for torrents *still* exists, despite numerous efforts to kill it.

The physical book industry won't go away forever--never that, but it will become a very niche market, for textbooks (for now), for physical libraries, for those who can't adapt to ebooks, and for those who value the craftsmanship of bookmaking.

We'll all have to learn to live with that.

[Marcus IM]

94. The low wage peeps who cannot afford rent have to live with it.

"I know this will flabbergast you, ..."

Nice touch.

Mind reading now?

[inthewind21]

104. "low wage peeps"

who can't afford to pay rent, as you call them, aren't low wage peeps because of online shopping. They are low wage peeps because their online AND B&M employers don't pay them a living wage. Didn't you say you were a B&M business owner?

[Ms. Toad]

117. And equivalent brick and mortar jobs pay more?

Not in my daughter's experience (she's been working at Amazon for more than two years partly because they pay more than equivalent brick an mortar jobs).

Cyber shopping shifts jobs, to be sure. But places like Amazon pay local taxes, employ local workers, and charge sales tax for the jurisdiction being shipped to. Your rant suggesting they don't pay taxes is ill-informed, at best.

While I don't agree with amazon's employment policies (no paid sick leave, for example), they do pay well compared to comparable jobs, offer access to education (roughly 6 credits per semester, paid in advance with no obligation to repay if the worker drops out), 401K matches, and fantastic health insurance (better than any I've had in jobs that are purportedly superior to Amazon - i.e. require at least a bachelor's degree; often more).

[A HERETIC I AM]

7. No shipping is "free".

Someone is paying for it.

Free shipping with Amazon is covered by the millions of users who pay an annual subscription for Amazon Prime, or by Amazon directly.

Neither FedEx or UPS are transporting packages for nothing. And even if they did, how would it "dig a hole for America"?

What communities need jobs for their populations?

Sure, the demise of many retail outlets is sad, but the work is just shifting to other methods. Have you noticed how many multiple receiving/shipping dock buildings are going up all over the place? Warehouses with 30 or 50 or more dock doors are springing up everywhere.

Of course, now they have to find the drivers to move all those trailers and deliver all those goods.

There is precedent; In the 1910's the industry that supported horse drawn freight was enormous. Liveries, hay and straw suppliers, carriage builders and yes of course, Buggy Whip makers, etc. A multi billion dollar industry nationwide, if not worldwide.

Utterly gone in 20 years. By 1930 the horse drawn delivery wagon that used to be everywhere in New York and other major cities had vanished.

Having said that, I fully plan on visiting a retail store today, probably more than one. But I shop online all the time.

[lastlib]

9. I ain't spendin' a dime today..... n/t

[mahatmakanejeeves]

10. Why aren't you mailing us pamphlets with this information? Don't letter carriers have to eat? NT

[Marcus IM]

11. Is DU a foreign labor outsourcing site?

Last I checked, USPS isn't outsourcing labor to China.

Great logic you have there.

[Gore1FL]

26. I had no idea Amazon was a Chinese company

Or UPS or FedEx for that matter.

[Marcus IM]

35. Never said they were. They are China-made resellers.

UPS and Fedex are China-made shippers working with Wall Street to increase corporate profits from cheap labor in an authoritarian state.

See?

[edisdead]

42. So are most brick and mortar stores.

[Marcus IM]

50. Yep. But, local stores pay for the infrastructures of their local area.

Ever own a b&m business? Seems that most here have not, and seem unaware of the importance of their contributions.
Of course, all driven downward by low wages.

[inthewind21]

60. So what

is it you're trying to say? Are B&M business being driven out by low wages (which make no sense at all) , online shopping (which most HAVE an online presence) or the mythical no taxes paid? You're all over the map with the false information.

[TwilightZone]

46. Where do you think B&M stores get their merchandise?

Spoiler: most of it isn't local. It's coming from the same places as those online retailers.

[Marcus IM]

55. As I've repeatedly pointed out. Local b&m businesses don't just pay sales tax.

Just look at the sprawling empty malls and boarded-up stores. That represents a huge tax and infrastructure fees loss to the local communities.
It really isn't that hard to understand, is it?

[inthewind21]

73. Clearly

it is. And what exactly are these infrastructure "FEES" you keep referring to that AREN'T included in state and local taxes?

[Marcus IM]

96. Open a b&m business and find out.

Occupational licenses, inspection fees, water and utility fees, fire and police taxes for b&m businesses, local/county/state taxes on equipment investments, etc.

Just to name some. I know I'm missing quite a few.

Open a b&m business and find out.

[inthewind21]

106. Well

If you intend to USE the local infrastructure, then you have to pay for it. And EVERY business that has a presence does. Online or not. What you're REALLY complaining about is what YOU have to pay to operate the business you say you own.

[Marcus IM]

133. Nope. Interesting that that is your "take".

Happy to pay taxes.

Not every business does. Some are freeloaders.

Maybe it's REALLY YOU projecting?

Either that or you're a bad mind reader.

[inthewind21]

47. LOL

So is Hobby Lobby. SO Is MJ Designs. So is Home Goods. So is Sears. So is Home Depot. So is Lowes. So is Party City. So is Dollar General. So is.... I think it's YOU that needs to SEE.

[Marcus IM]

57. See what? You are making my point. Thanks.

Sears entered bankruptcy in 2018. Since then, all but 22 Sears locations in 14 states and Puerto Rico have been shuttered.

Great addition to my point.

[inthewind21]

75. Because

And guess what, Sears sold online! OMG! Is THAT why they failed?

Yes, they did, because they had either a shitty business model or the management ran it into the ground. IF you want a business, you need customers, if you don't attract customers, you fail. It's just that simple.

[tritsofme]

95. Sears was looted by a crazy CEO.

[inthewind21]

107. As was

Bed Bath and Beyond. HP nearly tanked because of a CEO and there are a string of others with the same story. Do I need to mention Twitter! It was the incompetent leaders or outright greed that has tanked many a business. But I find one thing they ALL have in common. They ALWAYS blame someone or something other than greed or incompetence for the failure of the business. Online did it! Taxes too high (even know business has been getting breaks for decades now) or it's all the workers fault.

[OneBlueDotS-Carolina]

127. SEARS ROEBUCK 1961 FALL AND WINTER CATALOG

https://www.ebay.com/itm/225492437956?var=0&mkevt=1&mkcid=1&mkrid=711-53200-19255-0&campid=5338590836&toolid=10044&customid=6162dd81-85ab-4379-8c36-41f27e4c154d


Sears, Roebuck Catalog of Houses, 1926
https://www.amazon.com/Sears-Roebuck-Catalog-Houses-1926/dp/0486267091/ref=asc_df_0486267091&mcid=f1195c8ece7335f5ac30ce0feabb07a5?tag=bngsmtphsnus-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=80470624769050&hvnetw=s&hvqmt=e&hvbmt=be&hvdev=c&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=&hvtargid=pla-4584070153155986&psc=1

[Gore1FL]

58. No. I don't see.

If you go to a typical local store, they will likely have international products too. You may think you are on to something, but you are not, I assure you.

What makes you think local brick-and-mortor shops in the U.S.A. pay livable wages?

[Marcus IM]

63. Have you read any of my posts here? The low wages are a major part of this issue.

Contributing to the problem isn't going to love it.

[Gore1FL]

79. So I really shouldn't shop anywhere.

That’s what the argument seems to have evolved to.

Before it was no online ordering because of taxes. When that was defeated it became about low wages. Can you provide any links to suggest those involved with online sales make less wages than those working in brick and mortar shops?

[Marcus IM]

99. As you point out. low wages is a huge part of this equation.

But, where do I even say that "online sales make less wages than those working in brick and mortar shops"?

I don't. Strawman.

[Hekate]

122. The strawman is yours, I'm afraid. You keep moving the goalposts, too. Out of curiosity...

Just curious — do you shop at all? Or do you stay home on the farm weaving and sewing your own clothing, and growing all your own 100% organic food?

It’s hard being that conscious.

[Tomconroy]

12. I think most big companies charge the local state

Sales taxes these days. But I get the point.

[Marcus IM]

15. I was referring to the local B&M stores that pay more that just sales taxes.

The cities, counties and state all rely on small business taxes. police and fire fees, and licensing fees, as do the owners of the brick and mortar buildings that pay real estate taxes and permit fees ,etc.

When all those tax revenues are lost - It's much like Ronald Reagan's tax cuts that are starving this nation, but on a local level.

[inthewind21]

108. So

your REAL beef is you blame everything and everyone for the cost of doing business with your own business and you need a subsidy. Got it!

[Marcus IM]

135. LOL. Not!

I'm happy to pay my taxes. All of them.

No subsidy wanted. Got that?

Maybe it's you projecting what you would want. Got it.

[Happy Hoosier]

13. Ah yes... a little holiday snark!

If brick and mortar stores want my business, they need to stock what I want at competetive prices.

It can work. A MicroCenter actually opened up about 40 minutes away. NICE. Now I can buy PC components there and I prefer to do that.

But for other things?

Local stores often don't stock the brands or models I want.

I need new cooking pans. I know what pans I want. They are not stocked by any local store, who mostly stock lower end junk, or they are boutique stores charging a premium.

I was in the same spot when I wanted a kitchen knife set. The locals all had either cheap and cheesy crap, or overpriced gimmicky junk. So I ordered from an online retailer that had what I actually wanted at excellent prices.

[Marcus IM]

17. And the low pay is the result. Store don't stock a lot of high-end because of this.

The b&m stores are already hammered, so, how is investing in more stock that people go ahead and order online for a few pennies less going to help?

Low prices = low wages.

Pure, unadulterated BS -->

[Happy Hoosier]

29. Let me get this straight....

You're basically saying I need to pick the more expensive option so that other people make more money?

And guess who typically makes more money? Spoiler: It's not the workers. It's never the workers.

If a small business wants me to shop there, they need to give me an actual reason to shop there. Offering the same products with a narrower selection that I can get online much cheaper is just a shitty, unsustainable business model. These small stores need to provide value added. They either need to be able to provide unique offerings, expert advice (which I usually do not need), or some other actual competitive advantage.

This reminds me of those who railed against the disappearance of "cottage uindustries" .... when industrialization began to replace the local crafts people. You can be angry about it, I guess, but the system which offers customers what they want at cheaper prices is GOING to win. The proper response is not to pee into the wind, but find an alternative strategy. In my local downtown, there are some successful boutique stores. They generally offer artisan goods.... soaps, jewelry, tea blends, chocolates, whatever... that you can;t just order off of Amazon. That's the only way small brick and mortars will survive. Or alternatively, places like local book shops hosting events to pull customers in. They will not survive by simply offering the same products at higher prices in a more limited selection.

[Marcus IM]

38. Oh, I do understand the conundrum.

As I said, the b&m business are facing an near impossible task to win.

But, then, so goes the local infrastructures supported by local B&M businesses and the related local taxes, occupational licenses, police and fire fees, etc.. Online China-made outlets don't support those.

[TwilightZone]

41. Stop posting misinformation.

Most online retailers collect state and local taxes. You're either being intentionally obtuse or you have no idea what you're talking about.

[inthewind21]

52. My bet

is on no idea!

[Marcus IM]

65. Back at ya.

Thanks for the rec.

[Marcus IM]

61. They do not pay the taxes and fees that local b&m business do.

I do know what I'm talking about. I own a b&m business that pays for far more than just sales taxes.

Maybe you are being obtuse.

Ever owned a b&m business?

[TwilightZone]

90. Shifting the goalposts.

Keep moving them. Pretty much every assertion you've made is either wrong or intentionally misleading, though you've also changed them so many times that you're bound to be right about something.

First, it was no taxes paid, then it was no state or local taxes paid, now it's fees, which were nowhere to be found in your OP. One out of three ain't bad, I guess.

[Marcus IM]

92. Actually, I don't say those things.

But ... I do clarify my position as well as the tax base issues as I am being challenged. That's how discussion works.


3 ... 2 ... 1 ... GO!

[inthewind21]

109. You keep

bringing up infrastructure. You seem to be attempting to make the argument that only business supports local infrastructure. Interesting.

[ExWhoDoesntCare]

74. Oh dear

You're really going to make the job argument? Do you have even the faintest clue what bookstore employees earn?

I do, because I worked for a chain and an indie. That's how I know all but the store manager jobs have paid minimum wage since the bloody 70s. And the store managers make about as much as a warehouse worker does.

As a bookstore employee, I've known my share of indie bookstore owners. None of them have been wealthy. Some of them barely got by--then and now.

So pull the other one about the jobs, mate. Because the jobs at bookstores have pretty much sucked balls for over 50 years.

[mathematic]

16. Nah, I don't shop at businesses exempt from the Civil Rights Act or the ADA nt

Maybe I'll go shop at Walmart, Home Depot, and Hobby Lobby and we can both be satisfied.

[Marcus IM]

18. Yep, The big box China-made hardware appliance outlets are like Walmart. Killing small businesses.

Hard to be satisfied with that situation.

Low prices = low wages.

[Gore1FL]

27. Or

Low prices = better business models.

[Marcus IM]

39. Better business models are low wages.

Good for the investor class.

[Gore1FL]

59. In your mind low wages is a better business model?

I'm sorry, that makes less sense than the original premise of the thread.

[Marcus IM]

66. Maybe you missed soaring corporate profits in the midst of low wages and high rents?

Low wages are good for corporate profits.

Ya think that might have something to do with their anti-minimum wage stances?

[Gore1FL]

81. Read about Henry Ford and the wages he paid.

Then get back to me. I’ll happily discuss economics with you, but you’ll need to bring more than over-simplified arguments that contradict each other.

[Marcus IM]

98. smh

Über capitalist and Nazi supporter Henry Ford is your paragon of wage justice?

Seriously?

But, Fords used to be made in the USA. So there is that. But, not much anymore.

When Henry Ford introduced the moving assembly line in 1913 he loved it but his employees didn't. The work was boring and relentless, and worker turnover was high. To get workers to stay, Henry more than doubled their pay, from $2.34 per day to $5 per day.

https://www.thehenryford.org/current-events/calendar/five-dollar-day/

[Gore1FL]

124. Ford was a U.S. Copmpany that had brick-and-mortor factories warehouses, dealerships, etc. that paid well.

Now they are a horrible comapny because you don't like their founder despite checking off pretty much every box you wanted checked so far in this topic.

You don't appear to be a serious person, but rather only here to make shallow arguments on topics you are not well aquainted for the sake of argument.

I'm done.

[Tomconroy]

91. Local businesses have to sell something other

Than the Chinese made goods that big box and internet retailers sell for lower prices. Be it better service or better and different goods.
Complaining about the new technology is kind of silly.
The internet is great if you know what you want but it isn't that good if you don't know what you want and are browsing.

[Shanti Shanti Shanti]

19. Too late, I have no desire to stand in line with all those coughing, hacking infected, Amazon for me

All the sizes and colors I wanted, 70% off, screw the mass crowds and snot blowing kidlets too

And yes, all online shopping collects taxes, I get everything I need, and nothing that I don't. Delivered!

[Marcus IM]

21. So, you're doing your part.

As long as you get what you want, it's all good.

I'm sure the now out of business owners and employees who cam't pay the rent/mortgage don't see it that way.

[Shanti Shanti Shanti]

30. U can't shop shame me, lololololol, nobody tells me how to spend my money

[Marcus IM]

40. But, of course.

Ruggedly individualist, you.

[Shanti Shanti Shanti]

128. Well, it's all I have, I'm cheap, lol

[BannonsLiver]

20. LOL

I pay local sales tax on every online purchase. Give informing yourself a whirl. 🙄

[Marcus IM]

22. How about considering the local tax and fee revenues and jobs local business provide.

Your online purchases may include state taxes, but not local taxes or fees that underwrite the local infrastructures, like fire and police, and inspectors, etc etc etc. All jobs we need.

Maybe look that up? Give that a whirl.

[BannonsLiver]

23. So you're saying there are zero local businesses that also sell online?

My God, this is worse than your I/P hot takes. 🤦‍♂️

[Marcus IM]

24. Like my hot takes. I'll take your comment for what it's worth.

Thanks for playing.

[TwilightZone]

31. Incorrect.

Taxes on online purchases are usually reflective of all taxes, state and local. Most items I purchase online are subject to 8.25% tax, which is the state (6.25%) + local (2%).

The city in which I live is in two counties, which are occasionally taxed at different rates. As a result, I'll often be asked to confirm which county I'm in. Obviously, this wouldn't be necessary if they weren't including local taxes.

[ExWhoDoesntCare]

51. How about considering that only 5 states don't tax

On online purchases--and those five states are some of the least populated in the country?

Maybe find another windmill to tilt at, Señor Quixote.

[Marcus IM]

70. You are talking about sales taxes. I'm talking about local biz taxes, fire and police fees, etc.

Maybe because I own a small b&m business I understand this.

Do you own a local b&m business?

[Chakaconcarne]

28. Alot of B&M stores do online shopping and cyber deals...

They aren't difficult to support - FYI

[TwilightZone]

36. OP seems to be completely unaware that local businesses have an online presence.

It's kind of remarkable, in a weird way.

[Kaleva]

32. Did my part. We ordered everything on line this year.

Love the convenience, wider selection and cheaper prices of on line shopping. We won't go back..

Back in the day, my mother did the bulk of her shopping by mail order. The Sears, Montgomery Wards and JC Penny catalogs offered a wider selection then local B&M stores and it was convenient.

[Terry_M]

37. There's a reason online shopping is on an inevitable path to dominance

Money took over all transactions because it's more efficient (easier for people to do) than bartering goods.
Email is pushing mail down because it's easier.
There isn't a world in which, short of a technological apocalypse, online shopping does not continue to increase year to year - for many categories of goods. It's easier. I can find the exact thing I need in a few minutes without having to drive to 3 stores only to compromise on something a little different at the end.

You can try to slow the trend down individually but a decade from now there will be even fewer B&M stores selling the kinds of things they sell today. If they're around they will specialize towards offering things that are not quite as good of a fit for online shopping.

[Marcus IM]

44. I do understand the situation.

As long as there are cheaper alternatives, low wagers will contribute to the problem ... which is low wages.

[Ohio Joe]

43. Well...

I purchased a bundlle&save deal off VUDU, the entire Westworld series.. The only other black friday purchase was a '75 inch TV but we got that at a B&M.

[ExWhoDoesntCare]

49. Huh?

You do realize that 45 states plus DC require paying taxes for online purchases...right? The only states that don't, as of now, are Alaska, Delaware, New Hampshire, Montana, and Oregon.

I don't think the national economy will tank over five states that not taxing online purchases. Especially five states that are near the bottom in population.

So the vast majority of us are supporting our local tax bases whenever we buy anything, be it in person or online.

[Marcus IM]

53. You are aware that b&m businesses pay more than just sales tax, right?

If one had ever owned a b&m local business, then one would be aware of this.
The republican solution is to just cut taxes and fees, which undermines local infrastructures.
Why is this so hard to understand?

[inthewind21]

56. Clearly

the OP does not realize. This whole rant is so full of false crap it gets a Pants on fire fact check rating!

[brooklynite]

54. Hmm. Apple has brick & mortar stores. Amazon has brick & mortar stores.....

Microsoft has brick & mortar stores. Walmart has brick & mortar stores.

Whom else do we love to hate?

[Autumn]

62. Me. Sorry but I order a lot from Amazon. I can't go to store to store to find what I need or want.

I went to 3 Walmarts looking for something. I ended up paying to have it shipped. From fucking Walmart. I have done all my shopping for Christmas from Amazon and will do the last of it today. And I don't pay shipping.

[Shipwack]

64. Huh... I charged all applicable taxes when I sold photos online.

Not only that, the photos and merch were all made in the USA.

Getting my online shop back together, and will be operating the same way again.

If I was a smarter man it would have been finished by now. The best time to have started was last week; the second best time is now.

[Torchlight]

67. Sounds serious

Good luck

[Marcus IM]

68. It is. Thank you.

[Torchlight]

69. It does not follow.

[Gore1FL]

77. If you look at your timeline

There isn’t a discernible trend pre-internet and now.

Perhaps low wages don’t have anything to do with how consumers buy products.

[inthewind21]

80. All this shows

Is the business owners (this includes B&M) are keeping more profit while stagnating their employees pay. Last I check it was the owner of the business who set the pay for their employees. Didn't you say you were a business owner?

[Marcus IM]

100. Yes. Based on prevailing wages. Which China-made is driving downward.

[inthewind21]

110. So

as a business owner you are part of the plight of the "low wagers". Got it. Thanks for clarifying what your beef REALLY is.

[MenloParque]

76. Maybe when stores in San Francisco stop locking up all the items to prevent theft. I had to wait 20 freaking minutes

Yesterday just to have someone unlock the glass door so I can get allergy nasal spray. When brick and mortar stores get their shit together and make it worthwhile for me to go in person to shop then maybe I’ll be back. Shits getting ridiculous I’m getting a glass cutter thank god I can shoplift up to $950 before it’s a felony 😂 😝

[inthewind21]

83. Your

allergy nasal spray is locked up because it contains pseudoephedrine which can be used to make methamphetamine's. Locking it up been the case for years now all over the country.

[MenloParque]

87. I understand locking up Afrin, Sudafed but FLONASE? People making meth out of Flonase?

[inthewind21]

111. Flonase

is a steroid. And when all the hysteria about cold medicine potentially becoming meth happened, stores started locking up damn near EVERYTHING that might be a distant relative. This is what happens when there is a public hysteria over the drug problem in this country and not a rational look at the cause. It's why your nose spray is now locked up ( theft may be part of it as well) and people in serious pain can't get pain meds because of the Oxy problem. It's a neck breaking swing in the opposite direction and an irrational way to deal with said problem is installed. Instead of deal with it rationally, we get treated like grade schoolers, one acts up during reading so now NONE of us get recess!

[redqueen]

84. Is that the store's fault?

Their options are lock everything up or close the store.

The blame rests with the ones who changed the laws to make shoplifting easier, surely.

[TwilightZone]

85. Pseudoephedrine has been locked up for nearly 20 years.

https://www.fda.gov/drugs/information-drug-class/legal-requirements-sale-and-purchase-drug-products-containing-pseudoephedrine-ephedrine-and

[MenloParque]

86. I can see locking up Benadryl Sudafed or Afrin, but locking FLONASE??

[TwilightZone]

88. Probably a high-theft item.

No legally-binding reason for it to be behind the counter, so it's probably for theft-deterrence.

My partner works in a pharmacy located in a retail/grocery store. The list of things that people frequently steal tends to be a bit unusual. It's probably just expensive enough and in high enough demand to be a target.

[gibraltar72]

82. I don't shop locally

because almost all of my local merchants said they didn't care if I lived or died. My little Republican hellhole resisted any health mandates during Covid. Not just passively but openly celebrating not giving a shit. Actually celebrated merchants who stood up to tyranny by encouraging no masks or distancing. The Christian Nationalist local college encouraged all of this. Can you guess where I'm talking about?

[HAB911]

89. I did my part

I went to both HD(which I hate), Lowe's, and Ace, none had what I needed. Came home and ordered from Amazon(which I hate), that's about all I can do

[Maru Kitteh]

97. I'll do what I have to, as I always have, as people will do regardless of

internet brownie point systems.

[Marcus IM]

101. OK. No brownie points for you.

That's what I'm promoting here, right? Nada to do with wages or local infrastructure support. Internet brownie points? lol

[inthewind21]

113. Still

not clear on what you ARE promoting since you're all over the map and every post the "promotion" changes.

[BannonsLiver]

131. Looks like you got ratioed pretty hard

[Marcus IM]

134. OH noes. I got ratioed. Oh my.

Color me worried about that.

[Steve7878]

103. Winco Foods

I shopped at employee owned Winco Foods Chain

[Polybius]

105. Me!!!

I saved a ton of money today, no shame at all.

[Hekate]

118. I pay state taxes every time I order from Amazon. Doesn't everyone?

[inthewind21]

129. Yes

n/t

[Norbert]

121. I buy camera equipment from New York

I've done this since the late 1970s. The WWW has just made it easier to do it.

[Hekate]

123. I tried, but this is really tedious. I guess moving goalposts makes for a fun game. Cheers.

[RubyRose]

126. The largest employer

Here besides the medical industry and bar and restaurant waitstaff is a huge Amazon fulfillment center.

[inthewind21]

130. No way

Didn't you know if you buy online those online companies exist in the other-realm and exist for ONLY profit will killing off all other business? The OP hasn't made that clear?

[betsuni]

132. *raises hand*

I order books from Amazon once or twice a year because I can't get books in English where I live and the shipping cost is reasonable. Ordered books today. Do not care if burn in hot Hell fires for all eternity for this sin. Fine.