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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsThe Cybertruck Is the Dumbest Thing I've Ever Seen: Elon Musk enters his Caligula era.

https://prospect.org/infrastructure/transportation/2023-11-30-tesla-cybertruck-dumbest-thing/

The Cybertruckor CYBPRFRVKK, according to its " target="_blank">illegible branding image, which looks like a white suburban teenagers first hesitant attempt at tagging the local Red Robinis due to be released today. Its the first new Tesla design since 2018, and the company has spent over four years and billions retooling its factories to make it. Its anyones guess how much of a success or failure the truck will be, though the fact that at time of writing there is, incredibly, still no official information about price or battery capacity doesnt bode well. But we can conclude that the Cybertruck is just possibly the dumbest vehicle ever produced. Heres why.
Lets start with the Cybertrucks body panels, which are made of stainless steel. That is a nightmare for several reasons. First, it is quite a bit harder than ordinary steel, making it difficult to shape and machine. When Ford experimented with stainless steel in the mid-20th century, they discovered that the metal would eventually break the dies they used to press their door panels. Tesla has had to cut the sheets with lasers and bend them into shape, which is undoubtedly more expensive.

Second, there is cost. The chromium and nickel alloys typically used to make steel stainlessthat is, resistant to corrosionare expensive, at about $11,700 and $18,300 per metric ton, respectively, as compared to about $800 for steel. And while stainless steel is resistant to dents, that also means that if it is dented it is difficult and costly to repair. Incidentally, automakers have long since developed techniques to combat rust that are roughly equivalent to stainless alloys, like galvanizing the steel (that is, applying a zinc coating) and improved paint. Indeed, stainless steel itself is not entirely rustproof, as anyone with a stainless knife or cutlery has likely discovered. Leave it under a damp surface like a cloth (or leaf, or bird poop) for too long, and it will start to corrode.
Third and perhaps most importantly, stainless steel is much stiffer than the ordinary stuff, which makes it dangerous. Since the 1950s at least, automakers have understood that stiffer cars are more dangerous to people inside and outside the car, because in a crash they deliver energy to other parties rather than absorbing it. In early crash test experiments with more heavily built cars, collisions often did only minor damage to the car but turned the test dummies into paste. Since then, cars have been designed with progressively more sophisticated crumple zones to absorb impact forces. Musks boasts of a Cybertruck exoskeleton, if true, are a recipe for gruesome carnage.
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Link to tweet
multigraincracker
(38,058 posts)Good luck.
GoneOffShore
(18,035 posts)alfredo
(60,329 posts)did 158mph at Bonnieville. That was fast for that time. Still it was fugly.
EYESORE 9001
(29,889 posts)This monstrosity shouldnt be allowed on public roads.
Haggard Celine
(17,912 posts)Hope he loses his shirt.
calimary
(90,830 posts)maxrandb
(17,500 posts)So, I think this shirt is next.
smb
(3,598 posts)Sky Jewels
(9,148 posts)as the No Va.
Oh wait, thats been done.
dembotoz
(16,922 posts)this is just an exercise in Conspicuous Consumption
thorsen Veblin would be proud
Woodwizard
(1,339 posts)The bloat on trucks is awful and unnecessary. Filling a status symbol.
I need a truck for what I do will be keeping my stick shift roll down window truck as long as possible.
Basic trucks ones for actual work are almost impossible to find.
maxrandb
(17,500 posts)Still runs like a charm
Unwind Your Mind
(2,364 posts)Datsuns were always my favorites, what year is it?
Everyone I know who owns a small truck is constantly approached by people wanting to buy them.
maxrandb
(17,500 posts)Keep it at the old house dad left when he passed and mom moved to a memory center. First vehicle I bought after joining the Navy.
Travel back to my old home a lot since I retired and do some work on the house to keep me busy.
Still makes it to Taylor Do It Center and back every time.
OnlinePoker
(6,150 posts)Hugin
(38,002 posts)I am looking for a small truck and was excited when some of the latest offerings were announced. Upon seeing them, they are still too big or specifically too tall. Even the truck/SUV hybrids like the Hyundai Santa Cruz. They are almost twice as tall as the few remaining sedans and would not fit in my older garage in both length and height.
I believe that this change is also a side effect of the truck game. As the trucks are getting larger, passenger vehicles are having to get much taller and bigger so that they meet the safety standards or they are suffering from the same interpretation of the fuel standards as the trucks are.
I am beginning to think that the only way I am going to have a truck which fits my needs is to customize a smaller vehicle so that it becomes a truck.
maxrandb
(17,500 posts)Those small Japanese pickups were great for the tinkering handyman, or woman. They were almost indestructible, and even a novice mechanic could do they routine maintenance.
Hugin
(38,002 posts)Because, it's all I need. I've been looking for a year and a half and there are none to be found around here. Even in the lemon lots.
I guess their owners are driving them to pieces.
progressoid
(53,389 posts)Americans aren't buying pick ups for utility for the most part. It's a comfort and status vehicle. Most people I know with a pickup don't actually use it for hauling stuff.
OnlinePoker
(6,150 posts)modrepub
(4,199 posts)I'm old enough to remember when trucks had a vinyl/rubber floors to make it easier to get the mud cleaned; let it dry then sweep it out or vacuum it out (with a shop vac). When I worked as a detailer at the Ford dealer back in college they just started putting carpet and selling trucks/broncos. Ford figured out people just liked driving trucks, didn't matter if people actually hauled stuff in them or used them off-road. The profits were staggering, much more than any of the cars on the lot.
Woodwizard
(1,339 posts)hatrack
(65,153 posts)Buns_of_Fire
(19,222 posts)maxrandb
(17,500 posts)"It's ugly, but at least it's expensive"
Hugin
(38,002 posts)Shoe box had a baby.
2naSalit
(103,817 posts)Of resources and pretty much everything.
moniss
(9,150 posts)with this thing I called it the Tedsel. Biggest and ugliest piece of crap I've ever seen.
bucolic_frolic
(55,845 posts)Hideous too. No designers, low overhead. I think that's what's going on here.
BannonsLiver
(20,859 posts)Lets start with the Cybertrucks body panels, which are made of stainless steel. That is a nightmare for several reasons. First, it is quite a bit harder than ordinary steel, making it difficult to shape and machine. When Ford experimented with stainless steel in the mid-20th century, they discovered that the metal would eventually break the dies they used to press their door panels. Tesla has had to cut the sheets with lasers and bend them into shape, which is undoubtedly more expensive.
bucolic_frolic
(55,845 posts)Tesla's are notable for having many body parts bolted together, as opposed to unibody of legacy manufacturers. I supposed you can argue which has more costs, but I'd still bet this is a cost-cutting move. Stainless is more expensive as a material. Maybe it's just an accommodation with stainless which can't be stamped as the article says - it wears out the dies, so don't use them. Bend, flex, weld bolt instead.
Shipwack
(3,104 posts)The body is made of stainless steel, which is bad for several reasons.
Because it's stainless, it can't be stamped, but it still must be shaped. Stainless steel is very difficult to bend into the proper shape. It's also expensive.
The article brings up another point I hadn't considered; stainless is tough to bend and crumble. Modern cars are designed to bend and crumble (in a controlled way) in an accident. This keeps the occupents safer because the more of the collidion's energy is spent crunching the car, the less is transferred to the people inside. A Cybertruck will survive a crash with only a scratch, but its occupants will be paste.
This is example #2739 of Musks ego getting in the way of design. He is so intent on proving to the world that he can design a truck from scratch that he doesnt bother to learn industry practices, some of which are there for good reason.
tinrobot
(12,115 posts)A flat surface on a car tends to look concave, so they had to put a slight arch in places like the hood to counter this effect.
I suspect the designers did as much or more work on this as any other vehicle. Working with untested materials always adds more to the design challenge.
ProfessorGAC
(77,303 posts)There are many types of stainless steel that are highly susceptible to chloride attack, which causes microscopic cracking.
Most of the states that have meteorological winters use salt to reduce icy conditions. Yep, sodium CHLORIDE.
There are duplex SS alloys that are very good in chloride exposure conditions, but expensive.
That said, I don't know where the author got those prices.
I'm seeing high grade 2205 sheet steel for $8 per kg, before any volume discounting or negotiation.
Still way more than mild steel, but I think the prices in the article may be overstated by over 50%.
EYESORE 9001
(29,889 posts)If its some run-of-the-mill grade, it adds to the argument that these vehicles shouldnt even be on the road.
harumph
(3,422 posts)Stainless is a puzzling choice. Reminds me of the Delorean. I don't know why they just don't rotomold
the panels - not as pretty I guess?
Disaffected
(6,579 posts)by Spacex for Starship and the booster skins. Can't recall for sure but I believe it's in the 300 series (304?).
And, it is tough to do compound curves with it which is why Cyber Truck has m/l flat panels.
ProfessorGAC
(77,303 posts)...like the 300 series are VERY susceptible to chloride stress corrosion.
I saw the damage to a 30,000 gallon reactor used for an amphoteric surfactant completely destroyed by chloride attack. Reactor was a total loss. $375,000 replacement cost.
There was visible pitting & under a microscope the surface looked like a parched dry lake bed. One couldn't count the fissures!
Also, so a storage tank in a similar situation where the bottom nozzle (point of highest metal stress) got so thin & damaged that the while valve & nozzle assembly broke off I'm the tank truck loader's hand.
Dumped 35,000 gallons. Guy was up to his knees in a few seconds.
Fortunately for him, the product was the active ingredient for baby shampoo. He was fine.
Chloride & 300 series are not at all compatible. The pH barely matters.
Disaffected
(6,579 posts)is supposedly some new proprietary 304 like formulation developed by Tesla. Maybe it has superior chloride corrosion ability(??). The following article doesn't address that particular issue but does give some background:
"The Cybertruck uses what Tesla calls Ultra-Hard 30X Cold-Rolled stainless-steel. This material is supposed to be superior to stainless 304. Source: Business Insider".
https://stampingsimulation.com/forming-stainless-steel-tesla-cybertruck/
It also seems that SS automobile mufflers and tail pipes stand up well to chloride (road salt) corrosion so maybe it won't be an issue.
Corrosion susceptibility of Cybertrucks therefore seems to be pretty much speculative at this point IMO.
ProfessorGAC
(77,303 posts)Not sure how SpaceX comes into it.
Also, 304 is 304. If the came up with an alloy with unique properties they'd assign a number. There aren't 99 varieties in the 300 Series.
Mufflers are mostly aluminized mild steel. That's because they are cheaper & last longer.
Some are stainless, but they're often epoxy coated. Racing mufflers are often 304 or 321, but longevity isn't a priority for most race cars.
There is nothing speculative about corrosion resistance going on here.
Chloride stress corrosion is a well-understood phenomenon and austenitic stainless steel are highly susceptible to it.
Disaffected
(6,579 posts)they apparently use the same material, chloride in space or not. Come to think of it however, there is lots of chloride blowing around "Starbase" as it is next to the ocean - maybe that's a factor. More speculation....
It is also not "304", it is apparently a derivative of 304 - maybe it is more corrosion resistant - who knows, AFAIK Tesla has not commented on it. And maybe it does have an assigned "number" - does it not have one?
ProfessorGAC
(77,303 posts)There are at least a hundred grades of stainless.
Geez, cutlery is made out of about 20 different kinds, a lot of it 400 series, which is the biggest difference in price.
In our industry, we used mostly 316L, but a lot of Carpenter 20, monel, inconel, & 2205 got used too.
304 has lower structural integrity, but is cheaper for applications with very neutral pH, but high water. All that neutral water helps accelerate oxidation and most aqueous formulas are sensitive to color. Red is bad!
A shampoo plant, for instance, might use 304 with sanitary fittings, because of the benign formula and narrow, modest temperature ranges.
But, a chemical plant wants the added structural strength because of the wide range & possibly extreme temperatures.
I guess I can see the use in spacecraft as it's nonmagnetic. Austenitic stainless steels are almost completely nonmagnetic. That might be useful is the ionosphere where all those charged particles reside. Just a guess.
I don't know why they would use that for mufflers, though. It tends toward embrittlement with high temperature & mufflers get pretty darned hot! I'd think anodized soft steel would be better.
Back in my R&D days, I developed a couple processes with pretty extreme conditions, metallurgically.
Did lots of coupon testing, so we could pick a material that would dissolve or fail. 300°C, pH zero, material finding an exit would be bad.
We actually had to go with tantalum clad for one application. Boy, was that pricey.
Mr. Sparkle
(3,725 posts)
smb
(3,598 posts)JonAndKatePlusABird
(368 posts)Was ready to post that, then I scrolled down
robbob
(3,750 posts)😂
RAB910
(4,030 posts)Desert Dog
(95 posts)While much of what Muskhole does baffles me, One of the first things that had me shaking my head is his disdain for liberals - WHO WERE THE PREDOMINATE buyers of his cars. It just did not make sense. With all the other manufacturer options, how was he going to attract their money? With the advent of Tesla home batteries and this truck monstrosity, Musks' turn right seems much more obvious. This is his target audience. It is not that he hates liberal money so much, he need drastic action to win over the rich and truck crowd.
northoftheborder
(7,639 posts)Maru Kitteh
(32,015 posts)not the same thing. I think Musk is more of a classic, old-school mid-life crisis situation but with pretty much unlimited resources. So, way more visible, massively chaotic and harmful to others and the planet than your average midlife meltdown.
rubbersole
(11,277 posts)Throw in racism and misogyny to round out a disgusting and dangerous piece of shit.
niyad
(134,050 posts)Ray Bruns
(6,776 posts)Ouch!
InAbLuEsTaTe
(25,518 posts)niyad
(134,050 posts)trying to get that thing up Wolf Creek Pass (10, 856 ft.), or the road up to Pikes Peak (14,115 ft). Hell, even Monument Hill (7, 343 ft), or even one of the hills to my place.
Johnny2X2X
(24,439 posts)Elon Musk isn't an idea guy in terms of technology and products, he's an idea guy in terms of salesmanship and marketing.
I always get irked a little bit by people attributing Tesla, Space X, or Boring ideas to Musk, the only piece of technology he ever had a part in coming up with was Paypal, the most insecure and fraud ridden way to transfer money on the internet.
So this cyber truck as a concept and a new product is from engineering teams who work for Musk, the only role he played was in not having the good sense to tell them to stop.
This truck is bullet proof.
dalton99a
(95,350 posts)yorkster
(3,955 posts)Arthur_Frain
(2,406 posts)But my first thought was to wonder what kind of a draw that single hill put on the batteries.
Having just returned from ÇA where seemingly every tenth vehicle is a Tesla, I wonder how long before you start seeing them?
lildDemz
(102 posts)There are better tires for this kind of stuff.
TheBlackAdder
(29,981 posts)Conversely to perception, those wide off-road tires actually suck when doing serious four wheeling.
While the tire might be big, running them soft for off-roading the pizza cutter tires make more surface contact. Plus, the narrower tires give you more PSI on the ground.
obamanut2012
(29,516 posts)And, our little Toyota could get up that incline -- it isn't THAT bad. Wow.
JohnSJ
(98,883 posts)are a monstrous ugly vehicle.
LetMyPeopleVote
(182,138 posts)tom_kelly
(1,051 posts)sinkingfeeling
(58,050 posts)"
AZSkiffyGeek
(12,744 posts)And that really depends on the room inside.
redqueen
(115,186 posts)The only nice thing I can say about it is at least it's not some jacked up pickup like the ones that are all over the place in Texas.
I don't see many people buying musk's latest mistake, now if only they'd stop buying giant pickups they don't need
world wide wally
(21,836 posts)sakabatou
(46,342 posts)Let alone an exit with the power off.
BlueIdaho
(13,582 posts)And selling them for scrap within two years. They are the new unsafe at any speed contest winners.
TheBlackAdder
(29,981 posts)Initech
(109,274 posts)One should not get high and watch Blade Runner and Mad Max at the same time. That seems like a genuinely terrible idea. And I'm pretty sure that was the inspiration for... whatever the fuck this thing is.
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