Progressivism threatens Faith (in Free Church of England)

[Model35mech]

Last edited Thu Nov 30, 2023, 03:30 PM - Edit history (1)

A progressive christian Is a fake christian, and christiantity is inherently conservative argues Calvin Robinson a deacon in the "Free Church of England". https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/opinion/a-progressive-christian-is-a-fake-christian-deacon-robinson-argues-liberalism-threatens-faith/

Well, that is probably true if your religion is based on closed minded, outdated ideas that arose in an archaic culture, not suited for modern rule, by men demanding tithes from the lumpenproliteriat so that those men can live prosperous parasitic existences keeping alive far too many of the accumulated ills of long-past society. We don't need a godship modelled on authoritarian all powerful monarchy. We especially don't need or want a society directed by self-appointed dictators claiming they represent on earth such celestial authority.

Progress is a yardstick measuring movement away from ignorance and injustice that is too much a part of past social leadership. It means that ignorance, misunderstandings, and abusive monarchies, dictatorships, and fiat- based rule based on an outdated past are flaws that society must correct. Clinging to the promotion of past values base on ignorance and adherence to such ideas now long past believability and social value is emblematic of conservative christianity desperate to maintain its privileges within society.

Progress means movement away from authoritarian diktats of a self-selecting self-promoting elite which are ensigns of archaic Christianity. Which is to say that conservative christianity of deacon Robinson is against ordinary citizen participation in deciding the direction taken by social/religious leadership of the governed's own choosing. Pedophilic predation on congregation members' children, sexual abuse of congregations adults, and the clerics' general proclivity for excessive self-privileging as evidenced in social standing and material benefits of being one of the elite 'servants' of God are not blessing of an Almighty but are hallmarks for unfettered religion that exists in a state of utter decadence.

A huge part of the social problem christian denominations now face is that those denominations guiding dogma are long long past their expiration dates. The principles at the moral core of modern society now exceed that of archaic dogma of outdated christian institutions.

[redqueen]

1. Organized religion is a yoke around humanity's neck.

It should be obvious to everyone by now.

[Model35mech]

2. Yes but radical conservatism is, again, strongly pushing fundamentalist religion

and the desired outcome of that fundamentalism is the yoking both believers and the non-believing to a world center in ignorance and archaic rules of governance.

[Sky Jewels]

3. Christianity is an outdated mythology.

Why any progressive would still choose to believe in these silly patriarchal, women-hating fairy tales is beyond me.

Our evolution as social, group-living primates who need to cooperate and share and help each gave rise to “golden rule” thinking long before these convoluted tall tales about male supernatural, magical creatures were made up in the Middle East a few thousand years ago. The only two important female characters are Eve (who caused the downfall of man) and Mary (who basically gets raped by the cruel sky wizard and then serves as a vessel for the male “savior” of mankind—emphasis on the “man” part). Oh, and the sky wizard’s son is also the same being as the sky wizard, because…reasons. Like I said, these myths are convoluted, even for myths.

There’s no need to believe in misogynistic nonsense in order to see the benefit of helping others.

[Model35mech]

4. Yes. A lot of that is because it's organized on archaic social ideas

The structure of the world many thousands of years ago was that of emerging nations run by monarchs, dictators, emperors, etc, who gained and maintained power (the ability to extract wealth/assets of their realms) through war and despotism and who delegated their power through lower ranking functionaries, although the functionaries generally were in higher status than an average person. And that is the way the original organizers of Judaism and Christianity structured the Celestial world of God(s).

The celestial world was divided into good leaders and bad leaders. God with his angels, and the devil with his demons... That is pretty much a mirror of what people saw in human existence, rival states on the perpetual verge of war between good guys (US) and bad guys (everyone who isn't us).

And the Priests kept certain wealth producing rights to perform functions (rites, rituals, obliging religious behavior) to themselves... generally these things in western religion almost always include the collection of offerings/tithes/taxes for functions that the general public couldn't perform due to ignorance or being precluded by a ban. Examples are religous rituals at birth, in life, and at death. The priestly class, and the institutions of the religion always ending up remunerated. Circumcisions, coming of age, weddings, care for the ill (often claimed to involve miraculous celestial intervention, rather than secular application of prevailing technology--admittedly primitive thousands of years ago.)

Monarchs used their power to command. So too does God, who, we are told by clerics, delegates making and enforcing demands on their congregations. And it's not as if "war" is not incorporated into the things the priestly ruling class can still command. It's just that now it's to stifle out non-believers and believer of different things (the subhuman children of lesser gods. You know?) Purges within society are not unknown. Book banning, belief banning, people banning. This is one of the terrifying prospects that belief in the form of christian nationalism our new Speaker of House brings before us.

Telling us what and how to believe, passes on cultural identity expressed in the things we do. And what punishments should befall us when we deviate from the diktats of the preistly law-givers. From corporal punishment (aka being racked), to fines, property seizures, and even unto death sentences (thankfully no longer burning at the stake).

And you can find all manner of things being directed and controlled by 'religious authority'. What to wear. How to handle your hair. Who you can have a relationship with, who is above or below your class, and of course which humans are subhuman. What kind of foods you can eat. Where you can live... particularly if the place you live is presented as having been awarded to you and your kin by God. Which nonetheless always leaves room for the acquisition of more territory and its resources.

[Sky Jewels]

5. That's great insight and context

and it was well written!

[muriel_volestrangler]

6. Your link gives "not found" for me

The nearest I can get is this odd "slideshow" recap of a Fox News interview:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/a-progressive-christian-is-a-fake-christian-minister-claims-liberalism-to-be-the-greatest-threat-to-the-church/ss-AA1ir2HJ

This is the Fox News interview: https://www.foxnews.com/media/anglican-minister-slams-progressive-christians-fake-calls-notion-oxymoron

They call him "Anglican" and "a staunch proponent of Christian orthodoxy", but "Anglican" means the (plain) "Church of England", not the "Free Church of England" (Fox further misleads by putting up a picture of a Church of England cathedral, with the caption 'During the Anglican Church's "General Synod," Archbishop of York Stephen Cottrell opined that the "Our Father" prayer might be "problematic."' (that was about whether "Our Father" is appropriate; what was said, I can't remember, but it's not as if it was changed).

Robinson is a political commentator, who was on GB News until he supported Laurence Fox - whether that was about Fox's misogyny, or his call to attack traffic cameras, I'm not sure: https://www.democraticunderground.com/108822533 . Robinson is also a climate denialist and LGBTQ hater.

He had tried to become a deacon in the normal Church of England, but they rejected him, basically because he's a political arsehole:

This revealed email conversations between Jonathan Baker, the bishop of Fulham, and Rob Wickham, the bishop of Edmonton, raising concerns about Robinson's "libertarian anti-woke, anti-identity politics, Covid-sceptical" political views and his use of social media, particularly Twitter, to disseminate them.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calvin_Robinson

The Free Church of England is tiny, but they use misleading photos to try and make it look like they have large churches: https://www.democraticunderground.com/108822273

I see from Wikipedia that Robinson has now got himself ordained in yet another far-right splinter church: the "Nordic Catholic Church".

In short, he's a political operative who uses religion to give himself some respectability, but mainstream religion rejected him.

[Model35mech]

7. Sorry. I found it on the MSN aggregator, and that was the link without

all the follow on numbers that I've been chastized by DUers for leaving in the shared link.

[Model35mech]

8. I don't doubt the content of the links you posted

I would expect that anything named FREE Church of England is a schismatic group, with schismatic followers.

BUT, I think the sentiments the wannabe deacon (which to my knowledge is NOT a high-ranking position, but rather often a position taken by wannabes and failed seminarians) shares with many conservative Christians in the US

They want to propagandize the world toward a belief that theirs is a credible position.

[muriel_volestrangler]

9. Oh yes, it is quite American

The "Turning Point" connection is explicitly into American politics, and his targets - "woke", climate change, LGBTQ etc. - match well with a certain type of US political/religious player (and yes, deacon is a minor position, which he only sought to get a title he can use for Fox interviews, RW paper op-eds and so on, as far as I can see). I just wanted the "Free" bit to be obvious - and for people to see that, like the Pope having less and less truck with the US Roman Catholic conservatives like Burke, this is a fringe (or outside) view in the actual C of E.

[Model35mech]

10. Yes I made the effort to say FREE Church of England

And really, my post isn't even against that as an institution.

Rather it's a criticism of the 'deacon's' radical assertions against Progressiveism.

I love Progressive motivation much like I love high-minded interpretation of the Englightenment, although I know that many who are said to be intellectuals of that enlightenment could have and should have been much more enlightened.

[summer_in_TX]

11. As much as they proclaim Christianity is supposed to be

conservative, if they bothered to study the Bible (old and new testaments) they'd be astonished to see that it points to a God who cares deeply for the poor, raises up prophets to comfort the afflicted and afflict the comfortable, welcomes the stranger and immigrant telling the Hebrew people that they were once strangers in a strange land – an example of the admonition to do to others what you would have them do to you. Clothing the naked, visiting prisoners, tending the ill.

“Learn to do good; seek justice, correct oppression; bring justice to the fatherless, and plead the widow's cause,” (Isaiah 1:17). “He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the Lord require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?” (Micah 6:8).

If those aren't values most closely associated with liberals, I don't know what are.

As a brand-new Christian 30 years ago, I was astonished, having bought into the RW claims about what Christianity "really was." It's been a joy to find out otherwise.

[Wednesdays]

12. To me, the Beatitudes (Matthew 5) is the cornerstone of Christianity

As a longtime Episcopalian, this "Free Church of England" idea and its ideals are foreign to me.