General Discussion

2023-12-01T13:28:13+00:00

As the Gaza ceasefire begins to unravel, we have the US Secretary of State, telling a sovereign nation that has been under attack by terrorists since 1946, that they have to save Gaza citizens from the terrorists who have put their lives at risk as part of their strategy. Blinken, the way Israel defends itself matters. Its imperative that Israel act in accordance with international humanitarian law and the laws of war, even when confronting a terrorist group that respects neither. Blinken said that when he met today with Israeli prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu and senior Israeli officials, I made clear that before Israel resumes major military operations, it must put in place humanitarian civilian protection plans that minimize further casualties of innocent Palestinians. Is that right? Reckon what would have happened at the time of the Dresden bombing, if the US Secretary of State, one Edward Stettinius, had chastised the British military and US military for violations of humanitarian law for incinerating 25,000+ Germany civilians in three days of bombing in February 1945? Yeah...sure. The explanation from the British and US governments was that Dresden was a center of the manufacturing of Nazi military arms and equipment, and a strategic military target. It was already all over for the Germans in February 1945, Dresden was no longer a strategic military target. Dresden was payback for a country that allowed for the rise of genocidal Nazis. The great majority of Germans in 1933 didn't give a shit for the lives of German or any other Jews. And as Yale professor Paul Kenned said during the allied invasion of Europe, "WAR HAS COME TO THE MAKERS OF WAR." When we add up the totals of civilian deaths during WWII and find that approximately 12,000 US civilians died in bombings and other acts of war by the Axis, and that approximately 60,000 British civilians died in bombings and other acts of war by the Axis, and that estimates of German civilian deaths exceed 1.5 million, are we prepared to call the Allies in WWII "perpetrators of German genocide"??? I don't fucking think so. The people of Gaza made Hamas it's government in 2007. The people of Gaza knew exactly what Hamas was all about when it made Hamas their government in 2007. And with the October attack on civilians in Israel by Hamas (which so many US liberals want to excuse as a reaction to bullshit "Israeli Apartheid&quot ... WAR HAS COME TO THE MAKERS OF WAR IN GAZA. My ass, Mr. Blinken...my ass. Hamas is responsible for the deaths of civilians in Gaza...in their action of October 7,2023 the strategy from Hamas was the death of as many Gazan civilians as possible. And Blinken says the Israelis need to be held responsible for the safety of Gazan non-combatants. I don't fucking think so. Hamas has to be held responsible. This is how Hamas treats Gazan citizens... ?quality=75&strip=all

Post removed Fri Dec 1, 2023, 09:28 AM Dec 2023

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6 replies

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Post removed (Original Post) Post removed Dec 2023 OP

Yes, Hamas is responsible for the attack, but Netanyahu's administration was warned about this, and JohnSJ Dec 2023 #1

Nope... Geezoh Dec 2023 #4

The NY Times article makes it very clear that the Netanyahu government dropped the ball JohnSJ Dec 2023 #6

"People did shitty things to each other in the past" Alpeduez21 Dec 2023 #2

Israel justifying war crimes is a far- fetched presumption Beastly Boy Dec 2023 #3

No different... Geezoh Dec 2023 #5

JohnSJ

(98,883 posts)

1. Yes, Hamas is responsible for the attack, but Netanyahu's administration was warned about this, and

Reply to Post removed (Original post)

Fri Dec 1, 2023, 09:33 AM

Dec 2023

choose instead to ignore it and cause provocation in the West Bank by supporting the extremist settlers.

Netanyahu needs to go. There are plenty of competent people to take over and finish the mission to incapacitate Hamas.

Geezoh

(35 posts)

4. Nope...

Reply to JohnSJ (Reply #1)

Fri Dec 1, 2023, 08:12 PM

Dec 2023

...because John, there have not been any Israeli settlers in Gaza since the summer of 2005. By that time every settler had been brought back to Israel and every settlement had been either abandoned or dismantled. And Gaza had officially been handed it's very own "two-state solution" by the Israelis. A full disengagement in Gaza by the Israeli government almost twenty years ago. So this old "extremist settler" argument is...to be honest...pure crap.

As far as warnings of attacks by Hamas on Israeli neighborhoods in the State of Israel...whoever happens to be the Israeli Prime Minister at any point in time, is warned daily of possible attacks by Hamas. Because the attacks, be they ground attacks, or rocket attacks or mortar attacks are a commonplace experience for Jews living in border areas of Israel and Gaza. Your insistence that Netanyahu wanted this attack is typical anti-Israeli nonsense. Immediately after the October 7, 2023 attack on innocent civilians, the Israeli government, all of it, including Netanyahu and his political opponents came together, and have been working together since to rid the region of the scourge of Hamas.

Gaza has been free of "extremist settlers" for almost 20 years. The term "extremist settlers" is bullshit anyway.

JohnSJ

(98,883 posts)

6. The NY Times article makes it very clear that the Netanyahu government dropped the ball

Reply to Geezoh (Reply #4)

Fri Dec 1, 2023, 08:21 PM

Dec 2023

Alpeduez21

(2,071 posts)

2. "People did shitty things to each other in the past"

Reply to Post removed (Original post)

Fri Dec 1, 2023, 10:41 AM

Dec 2023

Is a specious argument for justifying war crimes.

By this logic everything Hamas has done is ok because it has been done before. I’m not saying it’s ok but the argument presented in the OP could be used to suggest that.

Beastly Boy

(13,283 posts)

3. Israel justifying war crimes is a far- fetched presumption

Reply to Alpeduez21 (Reply #2)

Fri Dec 1, 2023, 11:57 AM

Dec 2023

It presumes that the alleged war crimes have been committed, and they were committed by Israel.

The OP presents a a legitimate challenge to your presumptions.

Geezoh

(35 posts)

5. No different...

Reply to Beastly Boy (Reply #3)

Fri Dec 1, 2023, 08:19 PM

Dec 2023

The Israelis are no different in this situation than the Brits and the Americans were in the war on German Nazis and the atrocity perping Japanese military in WWII. Israelis are not perping genocide on Gazans any more than the Brits and Americans were in WWII. 60.000 dead British civilians vs. 1.5 million dead German civilians in WWII. The Israelis are not perping genocide on Palestinians any more than the British and the Americans perped genocide in WWII.

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