You don't get a say...

[sheshe2]

You don't get a say about my body, sparky, whether you're federal or state. NO MAN has the right to speak about a problem that they do not and cannot own.


-Twitter

[republianmushroom]

1. Agree

[mcar]

2. Amen

[North Shore Chicago]

3. Yup. n/t

[jaxexpat]

4. Absolutely!

[Picaro]

5. Hear hear!

[CincyDem]

6. It always amazing me that any man with a mother, sister, or daughter can be anti-choice. n/t

[WhiskeyGrinder]

7. Having helped men get abortions, I find this meme to be a little anti-trans.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

15. Huh?

How on god's green earth is this anti-trans?

[WhiskeyGrinder]

18. There are men who need abortions. They should get a say.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

19. How are these men getting pregnant?

If they are actual men, that's not happening.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

20. Trans men are men.

When a trans man has a working uterus, he can get pregnant. Any abortion activism that excludes trans men is incomplete.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

21. I don't think abortion activism is exclude any

person who can get pregnant.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

22. The meme in the OP does, as does language that implies a man can't have an opinion about abortion because he can't get

pregnant.

[Trueblue Texan]

26. Well, it specifically says unless a child can come out of your body...

...your have no right to an opinion about abortion. For the men who are able to give birth, they are entitled to an opinion.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

29. Which would then imply that people who have had hysterecomies can't have an opinion about abortion.

Yeah, it's just a shitty meme.

[Trueblue Texan]

36. I see your point, but hopefully the intended point got through to most. nt

[meadowlander]

44. Ditto women who are childless by choice and post-menopausal women.

It's well-meaning but just nonsense.

Everyone is entitled to have an opinion. We should be spending the energy showing why some peoples' opinions are wrong, not trying to shut them out of the conversation entirely.

[flying_wahini]

37. Don't you think you are splitting hairs with that?

If they have a working uterus and can get pregnant then technically they are physically female.

[meadowlander]

41. "Physically female" isn't a thing.

Or at least not a useful thing for the purposes of this discussion.

You can be genetically female and your gender identity can be female but trans-men are not "physically female". They are men.

Many of them take testosterone which gives them male secondary sex characteristics. Some people can still get pregnant on testosterone and some people temporarily go off it to get pregnant. They may have had gender affirming surgeries which give them male anatomy without destroying their uterus. They are physically male but they haven't gotten rid of their capacity to have babies.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

54. No.

[Hekate]

45. Way to miss the point

[WhiskeyGrinder]

52. Help me out, then.

[DET]

66. Oh, For Gods Sake

[Wounded Bear]

8. I have an opinion on abortion...

I think it should be legal everywhere and the need for one determined by the woman.

[Farmer-Rick]

28. Exactly

It's like voting rights. Many men had opinions about the right of women to vote. Should they have had an opinion?

I think they should because it's a question of equality, fairness and free will. If rights are taken away from some people, it opens the possibilities of rights being taken away from all people.

There are many men who see the horror of treating women like incubators as similar to taking away the right to decide if you are going to give up an organ or blood. It's all about controlling your own body.

Today the fascists take away abortion, tomorrow they force prisoners to give up organs to the rich. It's the same thing.

I don't think people should wait until the issue comes knocking on their door, to take a stand in favor of bodily autonomy and free will.

[EarnestPutz]

62. Perfect. The rest of this discussion is just noise.

[Silent3]

65. Yes, but if you are a man you should keep that opinion to yourself

At least if the sentiment of the OP is fully embraced.

[onecaliberal]

9. 💯 K&R

[Silent3]

10. I understand the rally-the-troops appeal of this kind of rhetoric, but it's not so clever...

...as so many people seem to think.

In a democracy, everyone's opinion on every issue matters, regardless of how personally connected people are to those issues.

Women are hardly a unified force on abortion rights either. Clearly more women than men support the right to an abortion, but I don't particularly consider the opinions of anti-abortion women to be any more valid or worthy of holding sway in a democracy as the opinions of anti-abortion men.

And if, unrealistically, men somehow decided en-masse to cede the issue of abortion rights to women alone, in much the way non-farmers do not cede farming policy to farmers alone, and non-civil engineers do not cede all infrastructure policy to civil engineers, why shouldn't such men, in somehow surrendering their own thoughts on abortion to women, not adopt the views of anti-abortion women?

[sheshe2]

11. 'Man' speaks of the men that are writing laws...

-To take a woman's right of choice over their own bodies.
-No exceptions to rape and incest.
-Some have called for incarceration and/or the death penalty for women and the doctors that perform abortions.
-Calling for arrest and jail time to cross state borders.

Here you are...

And if, unrealistically, men somehow decided en-masse to cede the issue of abortion rights to women alone, in much the way non-farmers do not cede farming policy to farmers alone, and non-civil engineers do not cede all infrastructure policy to civil engineers, why shouldn't such men, in somehow surrendering their own thoughts on abortion to women, not adopt the views of anti-abortion women?

No one said men can't have an opinion however it is not their right to choose.

You compare a woman's right to choose to farmers and infrastructure??!!!! WTF!

A choice to abort or carry is between a woman, her husband/partner and their doctor. and not lawmakers!

[Silent3]

39. The meme literally says "an opinion on abortion shouldn't come out of HIS mouth"

So you're okay with men having opinions on abortion, so long as they remain silent about them?

I'd guess you're very happy to hear men voice pro-abortion opinions. As am I.

...however it is not their right to choose

Perhaps in some idealized sense, but in the practical sense of how laws are passed and enforced, you can't get anywhere without male support.

You compare a woman's right to choose to farmers and infrastructure??!!!! WTF!

Oh, please. Can you not really understand the analogy, or are you just doing performative outrage now?

[Hekate]

47. With all due respect, you did bring farmers & infrastructure into the discussion, & that was a howling faux pas

Read Dobbs. The oh-so-wise judges actually state that women are the means of production, and how dare we not perform to specs.

My words, of course, not theirs, but those lines pretty much made me spit my coffee all over my screen.

[Silent3]

59. I brought farmers and infrastructure into the picture clearly as an illustration...

Last edited Mon Dec 4, 2023, 02:07 AM - Edit history (1)

...of how we don't otherwise divide opinions and legislation up by excluding people who aren't directly involved in a particular topic, nothing more.

Reading anything more into the analogy is just looking for a reason for faux-outrage.

I think we all know there will never, ever be a day when a piece of legislation related to reproduction reaches the floor of a state or federal legislative body and then all of the men in the body file out of the room, new quorum rules apply for the proportion of female members present to replace the usual quorum rules for total membership, and all important roles currently held by men are covered by specially-selected female counterparts who preside only in special no-men-allowed sessions.

As for the contents of the Dobbs decision, of course what the "so-wise judges" said is horrible, but my replies here in no fashion touch on the merits (or, clearly, lack thereof) of the Dobbs decision one way or another.

[Kaleva]

57. A lot of women vote for these men

A pulriity of white women vote R in election after election .

[jaxexpat]

33. Abortion should never be a political issue nor be in the purview of government or law enforcement.

That is where the Republican fuck-up machine stubbed its toe again. It was going along spreading disunity among people, its purpose. Then, when it came time to legislate, they just couldn't stop it. Too many Republicans had bought into the idea that most people wanted their opinion on abortion to be born out with legislated. They were just too stupid to notice they had no uteri. That's the problem with people raised to worship their mothers.

Regarding opinion vis-à-vis abortion. If you have no uterus your input is an affront to reason. Similarly, to the religious vs atheist on the issue of God. God is in no way effected by either POV. In the sperm vs egg business, there is a definitive point where the uterus holder's interests totally prevail, dominating the conversation to its inevitable conclusion.

[Silent3]

40. Should never be a policitcal issue perhaps, but you can't escape the fact that it is

Telling men they have no right to voice an opinion on abortion (please note: the meme in the OP derides men voicing pro-abortion opinions too) is counterproductive to getting the political issue to swing toward supporting abortion rights.

[jaxexpat]

67. If the question of regulating abortion remains a political issue then we have given into an extinction level tyranny.

No matter whatever guidelines are clued onto abortion legislation to make it palatable to an opposition, any restriction will inevitably cause harm to a woman (as well as other uterus owners) at some point. Debilitation, death, even moderate inconvenience, every possible aspect of limiting/regulating access to abortion infringes exclusively on the inherent citizen rights of uterus owners. It does not affect non-uterus owning people to an equivalent extent, if at all. Such legislation will be contested based on the aspect that it is discrimination based purely on sex (as determined by uterus endowment), an arbitrary state of citizenship by any metric.

This is a conundrum as old as the legend of Lysistrata and the solution will, as does the ancient theatrical production, rely solely on the will of those with uteri. Non-uterus bearing people must accept the fact they will need bear with the will of the uterus endowed folks. There is no legitimate or meaningful claim for them to approve or disapprove of anything in this arena. O magnum mysterium, et admirabile sacramentum. There is nothing comparable to procreation in its primacy to our species' perpetuation.

[Silent3]

68. I don't disagree with anything that you've said

Yet it still stands, in my opinion, that the meme in the OP is a terrible way to make any of these points, and that the meme doesn't deserve all of the rah-rah you-go-girl enthusiasm that it seems to invoke.

It should also be noted that even a majority of women support some restrictions on late-term abortions, so leaving this whole matter up to women, or anyone else with a viable uterus (do we negate the opinions of infertile women?) might not get you where you want.

The meme rallies support at a gut level, but doesn't stand up under thoughtful scrutiny.

[jaxexpat]

69. Where I'm trying to go is that men's opinions on the matter are ultimately....

irrelevant. I really don't have a "where I want to be" on any particulars of potential legislation. You're probably quite correct that "a majority of women support some restrictions on late-term abortions" and that's fine. So long as the actors have skin in the game, it should be their decision. They can settle it however they want though I expect the only satisfactory solution is that the government get out of the "abortion legislation" business altogether. I see that as the only workable solution and suspect, ultimately, when cooler heads prevail, that will be the default position.

It's always an ugly business, prenatal complication. There's not enough lipstick to even get close to masking this pig. But people will find get comfort with a detent wherein the picketers can perform legal pickets all they want and no judge or legislator will disturb a working truce. Since, to the extent that they are a progressive society, the younger generations of Americans are often the first to alter the status quo. They will grow weary in the supremacy of conservatism with its rigid celebration of the mundane. The USSC was foolish to rock this boat and they will be chastened within a decade provided the 2024 votes actually get counted and the tallies are accurately broadcast.

[Silent3]

70. Are the opinions of non-fertile women just as irrelevant?

If not, why? A special sisterhood exception, even when such issues will never personally affect these women?

And please, try to tell me with a straight face that you don't find it both politically useful and personally satisfying when men hold pro-abortion opinions, and don't quietly keep those pro-abortion opinions to themselves?

[jaxexpat]

71. Are the opinions of non-fertile women just as irrelevant?

Logically, yes. In fact, sterility mocks one's preoccupation with and participation in discussions of the matter altogether.

Thus, as a 71-year-old man, decades beyond an incredibly non-controversial vasectomy, I find it absurd to even discuss the issue. My apologies for having wasted your time as well. Though it has been a pleasure exploring your faithfulness to your POV.

[Cha]

12. Whoa.. Ain't that the Stark Truth!

But all the Garbage Mouth Men Do is Make Laws Against Women's Choice on what they want for their OWN BODIES.

[redqueen]

13. The choice is the woman's.

Not every woman's opinion, or most women's opinions - only the woman who is pregnant.

[DinahMoeHum]

14. My Body, My Choice, I Am The Law

put that on a poster sometime.

Makes a great chant, too (call and response mode)

[sheshe2]

17. That's perfect!

[Seeking Serenity]

51. Does that also apply to vaccine mandates?

I've read and heard where pro-choice advocates silently have dropped or are playing down (or are being encouraged to do so) the "my body, my choice" slogan in light of mandatory covid vaccinations

[chouchou]

16. Some men can't do without..

..the power of control. Those type of men usually can't control themselves. Compensating.

[CousinIT]

23. Ditto that! n/t

[Glamrock]

24. No shit, sister.

Every time some dude tells me his “opinion” on abortion, my reply is, “can you give birth? Then shut the fuck up. You know nothing of what women have to deal with.”

[niyad]

25. EXACTLY!!!

[moniss]

27. If it was men who got pregnant

abortion would be completely legal with a clinic on every other street corner and totally paid for by a tax subsidy. Notice how they want to come after contraception but are screaming bloody murder that ED medication must not be restricted.

[redqueen]

30. Is anyone proposing to restrict recreational use of ED drugs?

Or what is causing an outcry about that? I haven't heard anything about it but use of those drugs is definitely increasing. (But not due to porn use so stop saying that! )

[moniss]

31. There have been articles in the news

over the last few years of women bringing it up when male state legislators start wanting to jump on contraception.

[BlueTsunami2018]

55. If men got pregnant, the roles would simply be reversed.

Always hated this argument.

[moniss]

60. I don't think

women would be making an argument to be the ones in control over a man's body. Some perhaps but by and large the way women experience health care/medical research discrimination is still pervasive and so that I believe also would play in as a factor. But the patriarchy approach to things is really the core matter. Reversal of a biological matter wouldn't reverse how a patriarchy would treat the one's in control and suddenly allow the females to be in power and control.

[Seinan Sensei]

32. I keep waiting for a MAGAt to be asked the Time Machine question

"If you had a Time Machine, would you go transport back to 1942 and abort Joe Biden?"

[progressoid]

35. Or Obama.

They REALLY hated (and still do hate) Obama.

[progressoid]

34. Unfourtunately a third of women in America don't want other women to get abortions.

And those 33% probably vote.

[Bettie]

38. Remember: There are zero laws

about what men can do with their bodies, in terms of medical care. Zero.

[William769]

42. Exactly.

[GuppyGal]

43. I mean men can have opinions about it ....but they just shouldn't count

Maybe that should go with everything

[Towlie]

46. "No right to speak"? Even if we're on your side?

I'm just sayin' you could have worded that better.

[Hekate]

49. I concede the point, with thanks for being an ally

[dlk]

48. Sadly, too many Americans are committed to the subjugation of women

The underlying issue in the abortion debate.

[gulliver]

50. A lot of men (most probably) support a woman's right to choose

I do, for example. It's important to point out the asymmetric role of women in reproduction. But it's counterproductive to just say, "Men, shut your trap!" It actually probably irritates some men enough that we could lose their votes. I.e., backfire.

[Silent3]

64. It's also besides the point because even if a majority of women were against abortion...

...I'd still support the right of individual women to have autonomy over their bodies no matter how many of their fellow women were against it.

I suspect that in some countries with very strict religious cultures even a majority of women have been sufficiently indoctrinated to oppose abortion, and yet that doesn't make denying women abortions in those countries any more justifiable.

[RKP5637]

53. Agree!!! n/t

[bluestarone]

56. 100% right on the money!!!!!

I would like to add here that it's way past time that when passing these laws AGAINST woman, then ALL woman should have the right to force the father, married or not, too PAY monetary damages until child is 18. ALL woman have the right to make there own decisions about their body, BUT when congressional people succeed in taking that right away, THEN ALL fathers need to also pay that same as woman do. Automatic DNA testing!

[Warpy]

58. Sing it, Sister!

Religion can spout woman hating nonsense from their pulpits, it's kind of a given in these days of men's religions.

However, churches are not permitted to insert their woman hating dogma into civil law. If they try, there will be hell to pay.

They're just starting to find that out in a few states here and there.

The Thirteenth Amendment freed us all.

[Rhiannon12866]

63. K&R! I feel exactly the same way!!!

Nor do they have the right to sentence to near death before they can receive emergency health care for a pregnancy gone wrong.