Israel orders more people in crowded southern Gaza to evacuate as heavy bombardment shifts there

[David__77]

…

Palestinians in Gaza said they were running out of places to go. The Gaza Strip, bordering Israel and Egypt, is sealed. Many of the territory's 2.3 million people are crammed in the south after Israel ordered civilians to leave the north in the early days of the war sparked by the Oct. 7 attack by Hamas and other militants that killed about 1,200 people, mostly civilians, in southern Israel.

…

On the ground in Gaza, there was frustration and mourning. Outside a Gaza City hospital, a dust-covered boy named Saaed Khalid Shehta dropped to his knees beside the bloodied body of his little brother Mohammad, one of several bodies laid out after people said their street was hit by airstrikes. He kissed him.

'You bury me with him!' the boy cried. A health worker at Al-Ahli Baptist Hospital said more than 15 children were killed.

…

The bodies of 31 people killed in Israeli bombardment across central Gaza were taken to the Al-Aqsa Martyrs hospital in Deir al-Balah, said Omar al-Darawi, a hospital administrative employee. Associated Press video showed bodies in bags outside the hospital as dozens of people held funeral prayers. One woman wept, cradling a child's body on her lap. Another carried the body of a baby.

…

https://thehimalayantimes.com/ampArticle/1024287

[leftstreet]

1. Where. Are. They. Supposed. To. Go. n/t

[mzmolly]

2. Why isn't Egypt

assisting? It seems to me they're in the best position to do so.

[leftstreet]

4. Why can't they stay in their homes? n/t

[David__77]

8. Israel could have opened a humanitarian corridor at the start of this.

They chose not to, in part because they want to be rid of the people, non-combatants included, as discussed at https://apnews.com/article/israel-gaza-population-transfer-hamas-egypt-palestinians-refugees-5f99378c0af6aca183a90c631fa4da5a

Of course, there is more than one way to be rid of people.

[mzmolly]

19. From your article.

“We are against transfer to any place, in any form, and we consider it a red line that we will not allow to be crossed,” Nabil Abu Rudeineh, spokesman for Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas, said of the report. “What happened in 1948 will not be allowed to happen again.”

[mzmolly]

14. They can. But it's a bit

Last edited Mon Dec 4, 2023, 08:34 AM - Edit history (1)

risky right now.

[David__77]

5. Why should Egypt take Israel's refugees?

[mzmolly]

17. Humanitarian reasons?

Thought that was obvious.

[David__77]

18. They do not want to abet ethnic cleansing. Israel is responsible.

[mzmolly]

20. Israel is responsible. As is Hamas.

Egypt is on the border, witnessing the horror and not offering aid to refugees? And the answer seems to be "why should they?"

[David__77]

21. I understand that they do not want to facilitate ethnic cleansing.

Israel can open route to Negev.

[mzmolly]

23. It's the opposite.

They could facilitate saving lives. We know what Israel is or isn't doing. Thus my original question.

[David__77]

25. Ok we disagree that that population transfer would constitute ethnic cleansing.

I think it would, and you do not agree.

[mzmolly]

27. I think if I were in Gaza with my family I'd want a safe

harbor, no matter the semantics.

[GuppyGal]

54. They don't want HAMAS and their enablers in their country. PERIOD...no wrath left in ya for them huh nt

[David__77]

56. Who are their "enablers"?

[GuppyGal]

66. The Populace. Maybe you think Hamas and their 'arms' operate in a vacuum but they have families, friends etc

and we've been through this already ...if you care to research you'll see that Hamas enjoys support among their people and it's across all walks of life. In addition, if any support for them has waned for them in recent years, it has nothing to do with Israeli relations but social services. They are indoctrinated for goodness sakes, the childrens shows are Kill Israel and death to America. That's reality.

I don't love that they are being bombed but Egypt should of taken in these people at least the women and children!!! That's what happens in war - people flee to neighboring/other countries but nobody is having that and no onus is on those muthafuckas and I don't appreciate it and nobody except for me it seems is saying shit about that.

Until someone or some party or parties emerge over there with some sense and SOME LOVE we ain't gonna get nowhere !!!
And I'm not excusing any of Israel's bad actions either but I will not do any false equivalences and compare the two in any way.
Whatever little credibility you think Israel has well Hamas has negative a million times less.

[David__77]

68. Including the babies?

[GuppyGal]

73. I've answered this already

I even got one from Al Jazeera for you

[mzmolly]

79. Disturbing

to say the least.

[claudette]

9. Why should they?

Israel needs to stop

[mzmolly]

12. They should because the reality is,

Israel isn't stopping. Israel is saying 'GTFO' and Egypt shrugs.

[claudette]

22. Whose reality?

The reality is that Israel is WRONG and the world she not bow to them.

[mzmolly]

24. So innocent Palestinians should be killed while the world watches

and bitches about Israel? Gotcha!

Let's not forget Hamas's role in this crisis. They must've had an idea that Israel would act.

[claudette]

29. Of course not

Israel must stop. Palestinians have nowhere else to go. There are many sick and disabled Palestinians who have no way to get out. The world needs to make Israel stop this massacre and find another ways to defeat Hamas.

[mzmolly]

57. I agree its' a horrible situation. But

those who can assist are not. We know Israel's position. They're not being ruled entirely by reason. I'm not sure they can be pressured to do anything differently.

[DetroitLegalBeagle]

92. Israel can be pressured

Sanctions could be an option, if other countries cared enough to do so. But ultimately it will be up to the Israeli government to stop or the Israeli population to pressure the government to stop. That's basically it. No other country is going to use military force to attempt to stop this and the UN isn't going to either.

[mzmolly]

93. What happens to Hamas

in that scenario?

I think it's valid to say Israel should make more of an effort to avoid civilain casualties, but then what? What is the long term solution to peace for Palestine and Israel?

Wish there were easy answers.

[David__77]

41. "Bitching about" annihilation...

Interesting formulation.

[mzmolly]

53. Nice spin. How about allowing annihilation

instead?

[GuppyGal]

55. WHY WOULDN'T THEY ...is the question - they won't even take in women and children...WHY? NT

[brush]

35. It's a problem created by Israel. They have to solve it.

Maybe not BOMBING the shit out of the area they told people to go.

Don't put it off on another country to house and feed millions of people (for who knows how long) that Israel is apparently trying to rid themselves of.

I've been impartial on this since there are innocents on both sides but THERE'S NO QUESTION WHO'S THE BAD ACTOR HERE – Netanyahu/Likud.

[mzmolly]

52. The facts are what they are.

Hamas invaded and slaughtered hundreds of Israeli's and Israel responded with aggression. My question for Egypt hasn't changed.

[brush]

60. And again, it's on Israel to stop bombing where they told the Palestinians to go.

That's not rocket science. Don't bomb the area you told people to go to. People can pretend they don't understand that, but they do.

There's absolutely no justification for that.

[mzmolly]

61. We're in agreement on that.

Now what?

[brush]

64. There will be consequences. The Netanyahu/Likud government will be held accountable.

Bibi might be in jail for crimes/corruption in Israel, but he'll be an international pariah from now on and afraid to venture out of Israel if he ever gets out of jail.

[claudette]

80. Agree with you

100%

[GuppyGal]

47. They don't want to let them in due to security risks. nt

[JustAnotherGen]

71. But but but

They are innocent. You mean other Arabs don't trust them?

Hmm . . .

https://www.jpost.com/middle-east/graphic-video-egyptian-troops-gun-down-palestinian-on-beach-who-crossed-sinai-gaza-border-438474

Don't forget the Red Sea Resort attacks.

It's almost like the terrorists disagreed with the Egyptian People toppling the Islamist government in 2013.

[brush]

83. It's Israel's self-created problem. They have to solve it...by not bombing where they told people to go to.

Why should Egypt be responsible to feed and house millions for who know how long?

Bibi/Likud created the problem and it's on them. If they continue bombing helpless people in areas they told them to go to, there will be consequences.

Bibi is flirting with being an international pariah who won't be able to venture out of Israel, that is if he ever gets out of jail when this war is over for his crimes and corruption in Israel.

[totodeinhere]

34. Hamas should have thought of that before they attacked Israel on Oct. 7.

Israel must eradicate Hamas before Hamas kills more innocent Israelis. Unfortunately civilians will be caught in the crossfire. But what else can Israel do?

[Butterflylady]

44. So it's OK to kill innocent Palestinians?

[GuppyGal]

48. That's what happens in war. I'm sure everybody already knows this though but somehow it's like a new thing

since Israel is involved.

[claudette]

88. Not really

The homes and apartment buildings where innocent civilian Palestinians live is NOT the usual "battlefield" in a war. Israel is targeting the places where innocents die.

[GuppyGal]

89. I am not going to explain to you yet again that it's HAMAS who has purposefully embedded itself in the population

It actually makes PERFECT SENSE that these moral-less scum would set themselves up under civilian infrastructure.

They don't have a chance to be innocent

&embeds_referring_euri=https%3A%2F%2Fdemocraticunderground.com%2F&feature=emb_logo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=2&v=cD2FezhJgqA&embeds_referring_euri=https%3A%2F%2Fdemocraticunderground.com%2F&feature=emb_logo

I could go on and on with links of this crap but I'm not going to waste too much of my time

[claudette]

95. More of the

Blah blah blah talking points of Nuttyahoo. I’m. Done. Bye

[GuppyGal]

97. Thank fucking GOD

[Sal_NV]

49. So its ok for HAMAS to violate the cease fire in place and launch a terrorist attack in Jerusalem and fire

rockets into Israel?

[Bettie]

59. A lot of people around here

just don't care if Palestinians die. They are poor and brown, so they are disposable in many minds.

The excuse is "they are all Hamas" because of an election before most Palestinians in Gaza were old enough to vote.

[totodeinhere]

96. It is never okay when innocent civilians are killed.

But the blame for the death lies with Hamas and not Israel. If Hamas had not attacked on October 7th this would not be happening.

[claudette]

82. And, again

you imply that Israel is 100% right in what they are doing to innocent Palestinians. I just don't understand the lack of compassion. Hamas is bad - but how "good" is what Israel is doing?

[Mossfern]

98. Are you implying what other people are implying?

I don't think that people are saying that Israel is 100% right.
Is there a name for that? I mean purposely misrepresenting what another person is saying.

I was never on a debate team so I don't know all the fallicies.

[Retrograde]

99. Into the Mediterranean?

IMO there's plenty of blame for everyone - Hamas, Netanyahu's government, Egypt - but in this case telling people that you told not too long a go to head for the south of Gaza to now go somewhere else should be a signal for the sane parts of the world to step in and enforce a truce while where and how the inhabitants of Gaza will exist.

[Goddessartist]

3. So horrific.

Genocide.

These poor people. All of these children and babies. All of these people terrorized and slaughtered.

[obamanut2012]

15. It really is textbook ethnic cleansing

Just so tragic.

[claudette]

6. This has

to stop. Does Nuttyahoo want to demolish the entire area of Gaza so these poor people have nowhere to go back to when Israel has killed enough Palestinians to satisfy its revenge?

[WarGamer]

10. Nuttyahoo and his minions also have "River to the Sea" aspirations.

[claudette]

11. Yes

I think that is true.

[Celerity]

28. 'There are 2 million Nazis' in West Bank, says far-right Finance Minister Smotrich

https://www.timesofisrael.com/there-are-2-million-nazis-in-west-bank-says-far-right-finance-minister-smotrich/

also

Smotrich says there’s no Palestinian people, declares his family ‘real Palestinians’

In Paris, far-right minister says Palestinian nation is ‘an invention of past 100 years,’ and ‘world should hear this truth’; speaks in front of Israel map that includes Jordan

https://www.timesofisrael.com/far-right-lawmaker-bezalel-smotrich-declares-himself-his-family-real-palestinians/

[claudette]

30. Dear

Lord. Who even believes this lie?

[Butterflylady]

45. Evidently....so.

[WarGamer]

7. Wow... move South so we can level the North...

Now get out of the South so we can level that too.

[democrank]

32. It's sickening. Mandatory evacuation to the next place to be leveled.

No place to run, no place to hide, no place to live, no place to fucking breathe. How anyone can make excuses for this is beyond me.

[GuppyGal]

50. How people don't blame Hamas over and over again is beyond me. nt

[obamanut2012]

13. The Jerusalem Post claimed thst dead baby was a doll

Which was not the truth. They have since retracted it, but now it's allllll over, hashtagged with the loathsome "Pallywood" tag.

The photos show a dead baby in rigor mortis.

[David__77]

16. It's just adding insult to injury given the massive documentation available online.

They may not care that that sort of “political work” is ultimately exceptionally harmful to their interests.

[Nanjeanne]

26. And they have yet to apologize to the grieving father.

[Sal_NV]

31. And HAMAS has yet to apologize to Israel for the murdering/raping/kidnapping of Israeli and foreign

citizens butchered on 10/7.

[Nanjeanne]

33. What does one have to do with the other? A grieving father had an article printed in a newspaper

accusing him of doing a photo op with a doll. That is what this is about.

STOP already with the what aboutism. Do we have no humanity left? Can we not grieve for dead Israelis and dead Palestinians with the same amount of compassion. Can we not open our hearts to suffering of the 1200 Israelis murdered by Hamas and also open our hearts to the thousands of Palestinian families being torn apart by the destruction caused by Israel’s war.

I thank God I don’t weigh people’s suffering by the categories you separate suffering into.

[Sal_NV]

36. You might well take your own advice.

This blaming Israel for everything is really warped here on DU.
And, no, I'm not going to stop exposing the hypocrisy of some here.

[Nanjeanne]

77. Seriously? I've never blamed Israel for anything other than what I believe to be the wrong way to resolve a conflict

that has been going on for ages. I stand by my feeling that Israel's bombing campaign is not the way to achieve peace. I stand by my thought that Netanyahu's government is wrong and that killing thousands of Palestinians will only create more Hamas. I stand with my Israeli family that the hostages coming home is the priority and this war is not the way to do it.

By all means expose hypocrisy. If you can recognize it.

[David__77]

39. I guess the point is to assert that there's equivalence between Jerusalem Post and Hamas.

[Nanjeanne]

78. That's it I guess. This is such a sad place where hearts aren't big enough to include Israeli & Palestinian suffering.

[GuppyGal]

58. They don't have to apologize, they get to say they want to do this again while folks call for a ceasefire

LOL so outrageous.

[Sal_NV]

62. And yet this is glossed over by certain people. nt

[mzmolly]

63. It is bizarre.

Those who have no compassion for Israel, accuse others of not caring about human life. I don't agree with how the war is being handled, but I'm not oblivious to what prompted it.

[lapucelle]

37. If only Hamas had not broken the cease fire on November 30!

==============================================

Blinken Says Hamas Is Responsible for Resumption of Fighting

Secretary of State Antony J. Blinken blamed Hamas for the broken truce on Friday and said that he was already seeing signs that Israel had taken new steps to protect civilians as it resumed its military campaign.

Speaking just before his departure from Dubai at the end of a two-day Middle East visit, Mr. Blinken said it was “important to understand why the pause came to an end: It came to an end because of Hamas. Hamas reneged on commitments it made.”

snip======================

Mr. Blinken noted that, hours before the early morning rupture of the seven-day pause, Hamas “committed an atrocious terrorist attack in Jerusalem,” killing three people on Thursday. Israeli authorities said two Palestinian gunmen opened fire near a bus stop on the outskirts of Jerusalem in an attack that also wounded six others.

Mr. Blinken added that Hamas also fired rockets into Israel on Friday and failed to free hostages it had pledged to release.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/30/world/middleeast/blinken-hamas-israel-truce.html

[Sal_NV]

38. Something that keeps getting overlooked, excused or just plain ignored by some here.

[lapucelle]

40. Hamas is the ruling authority in Gaza, and it is Hamas who broke the cease fire on November 30.

Maybe it's time to exert some pressure on Hamas leaders living the billionaire life in Qatar.

[David__77]

42. The US can put Qatar on list of terrorism supporting states.

For some reason, it has chosen not to do this.

[lapucelle]

43. Maybe Qatar should threaten to expel the billionaire terrorists

unless they fix the problem they created.

[David__77]

46. It seems to me that the US does not want that to happen.

.For instance, there’s a mechanism the US has elsewhere used to designate states as supporting terrorism, and if had chosen not to use this tool.

[lapucelle]

69. Why hasn't there been any outcry by the UN or protestors to free the people of Gaza

from the billionaire terrorists who have a stranglehold on the region?

[David__77]

70. Perhaps the United States will raise that at the UN Security Council.

[GuppyGal]

51. That's just a minor detail...not even worthy of a mention

[lapucelle]

65. Isn't it time we put some pressure on the billionaire terrorists living the high life in Qatar?

Why are they getting a pass in all of this?

Hamas started the war on October 7.

Then Hamas restarted the war on November 30.

Where are the anti-Hamas protests? Why isn't anyone marching so that the people of Gaza can be free from terrorist rule?

[GuppyGal]

67. Where is the screaming at Egypt for not letting in at least women and children to take refuge? WHERE

IS THAT SCREAMING????

[David__77]

72. The vice president spoke very forcefully against the displacement of the population.

[GuppyGal]

74. I wouldn't have a good answer if I were you either. nt

[lapucelle]

75. VP Harris spoke out against "forced relocation", not against people seeking refuge.

Harris Says U.S. Strongly Opposes ‘Forced Relocation of Palestinians From Gaza’

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/02/world/middleeast/kamala-harris-israel-gaza.html

[GuppyGal]

76. And to reply to this it's Israel IS WARNING PEOPLE to evacuate. Warning...I mean who does that? Say what you want

about how they are handling shit but they are at least trying to warn people as they do have a history of doing. It's like any which way you can stab and slice at Israel folks are gonna take it.

[claudette]

81. Please tell me

WHERE the sick, elderly, terminally ill, etc. Palestinians going to go where they will be treated with care? What good is dropping pamphlets telling people to "get out!" when they have NOWHERE to go? And, worse, they will have nowhere to RETURN to IF they can manage to go. Israel is being cruel and there is no hiding it or "explaining it away" this time.

[GuppyGal]

84. Why won't Egypt take in the sick, elderly, terminally il,l women, and children? What about the other Arab

countries who do nothing but condemn Israel and stay silent about Hamas and have zero interest in helping any civilians.

[claudette]

85. Because then

there would be no incentive for Israel to stop the immoral bombing of Gaza if it's emptied of its population. That's exactly what Nuttayahoo wants. The land with no Palestinians on it. in my view.

Edit: And - The Red Crescent and other charitable organizations ARE helping the people in Gaza. But bombs dropping on their heads makes it almost impossible. THAT is not Hamas dropping the bombs.

[GuppyGal]

86. That is the reason you give why Egypt won't take in the most vulnerable people on their border?

[claudette]

87. No

I don't KNOW the reason. I gave you my opinion why the Palestinians should NOT leave their homeland and give it to Israel.

[questionseverything]

91. Their warnings are more like a taunt since there is no where safe to go

[David__77]

94. I think that's right: taunt.

And I would not be surprised if many people don't bother fleeing any more, concluding that it's better or safer to remain where they are.

[LexVegas]

90. If only the elected government of Gaza had given similar warnings in October. nt