Protesters now chant and challenge Biden over Gaza at every chance

[David__77]

NANTUCKET, Mass. — On a cold, crisp night here, a Christmas tree was sparkling after the annual tree-lighting ceremony. A choir had sung, spirits were high. President Biden and his family stood, smiling and cheering.

Then, at the conclusion, a group of protesters unfurled signs that read, “Free Palestine.” “Biden Biden, you can’t hide!” they yelled. “We charge you with genocide!”

One man rang a bell to drown them out, while another man at the microphone said it was a community tree-lighting and — while he respected their right to free speech — asked them to stop. They didn’t. Music on the speakers, playing “Here Comes Santa Claus,” was turned up loud, but it was not enough to drown out the chants.

The incongruent scene was a reminder that Biden, even on an island far from Washington for the Thanksgiving weekend, can now go few places without encountering pro-Palestinian protesters. Over the past several weeks — including last Thursday at another tree-lighting ceremony outside the White House, where some attendees chanted “Genocide Joe!” — nearly every public event has meant confrontation in more direct ways than he has faced during much of his presidency.

…

https://archive.is/HYZa0

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/12/04/biden-gaza-palestinians-protests/

[Trueblue1968]

81. The hamas ... Israel war is not pres Bidens fault. He cant control those countries

The protesters are stupid. Just my opinion.

[Sympthsical]

2. I see the "Ceasefire Now!" chants are altering . . .

Can't imagine why.

Now people are just harassing Jewish shopkeepers and attacking Biden.

So difficult to protest when Hamas isn't cooperating with the talking points. I don't envy the task of trying to hold together a coherent narrative when it's dependent on genocidal lunatics playing ball.

But people make their choices.

[pale shelter]

11. You can

justify this carnage with that weak excuse but it doesn't wash on a moral level. Too many innocent people are dead and who have been subjugated for years. Gaza is a ghetto. Let's call a spade a spade. "HAMAS" and "Al-Quaeda" and "ISIS" (whatever happened to the last two?) are nothing but bogeymen used to wage war. Who is really behind these groups? Israel has a missile defense system that was unparalleled. What happened? I think I know.

[Sympthsical]

13. All things in life are a conspiracy

I think you think you know, too.

And I can take a wild guess who you think is behind the global conspiracy of it all.

[pale shelter]

23. They are a conspiracy

because they are used to justify illegal, immoral actions. You know...like that Gulf of Tonkin thingie? Make it happen on purpose (MIHOP).

[KS Toronado]

14. "What happened? I think I know."

Well enlighten us, I'm all ears.

[yardwork]

21. THIS is your first post on DU?

Enjoy your visit.

[mercuryblues]

94. I'd remove that photo of you,

this is a public board, after all.

[claudette]

29. Agree

100%

[GP6971]

33. Welcome to DU.....

[Cha]

80. Fucking HAMAS Violated the Ceasefire. Talk to GD HAMAS.

Blinken Says Hamas Is Responsible for Resumption of Fighting

Secretary of State Antony J. Blinken blamed Hamas for the broken truce on Friday and said that he was already seeing signs that Israel had taken new steps to protect civilians as it resumed its military campaign.

Speaking just before his departure from Dubai at the end of a two-day Middle East visit, Mr. Blinken said it was “important to understand why the pause came to an end: It came to an end because of Hamas. Hamas reneged on commitments it made.”

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100218496247

Three murdered by Hamas terrorists in Jerusalem shooting attack

Three people were killed and five other people were wounded in a shooting attack at the entrance to Jerusalem on Thursday morning, according to emergency services.

A 73-year-old man, a woman in her 60s, and 24-year-old woman were killed in the attack, while three other people were seriously wounded, and two more were in light to moderate condition.

The man murdered in the attack was Rabbi Elimelech Wasserman, who served as a rabbinical judge in the rabbinical court in Ashdod, according to Religious Services Minister Michael Malchieli. One of the women murdered in the attack was Chana Ifergan, the principal of Beis Yaakov Bnot Hadassah in Beit Shemesh. Livia Dickman, a resident of Har Nof, was named as the third victim.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=18491860

Link to tweet

[Kennah]

32. How long before "Death to Jews" is commonplace?

[Marcus IM]

44. How long before "Death to Gaza's Palestinians" is commonplace?

[maxsolomon]

52. A while?

Doesn't really roll off the tongue.

[dalton99a]

3. Who is funding these assholes? Hamas? Russia? Iran?

[Deep State Witch]

5. All of the above

Younger people are getting their information via TikTok and other social media sites without thinking what the source of it is. I know that Iranian Revolutionary Guards have a well-funded information warfare effort. They're probably getting help from Russia as well.

[dalton99a]

7. +1. And China as well:

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/03/technology/israel-hamas-information-war.html
https://archive.ph/mpXSf

In a Worldwide War of Words, Russia, China and Iran Back Hamas
Officials and researchers say the deluge of online propaganda and disinformation is larger than anything seen before.
By Steven Lee Myers and Sheera Frenkel
Nov. 3, 2023

The conflict between Israel and Hamas is fast becoming a world war online.

Iran, Russia and, to a lesser degree, China have used state media and the world’s major social networking platforms to support Hamas and undercut Israel, while denigrating Israel’s principal ally, the United States.

Iran’s proxies in Lebanon, Syria and Iraq have also joined the fight online, along with extremist groups, like Al Qaeda and the Islamic State, that were previously at odds with Hamas.

The deluge of online propaganda and disinformation is larger than anything seen before, according to government officials and independent researchers — a reflection of the world’s geopolitical division.

“It is being seen by millions, hundreds of millions of people around the world,” said Rafi Mendelsohn, vice president at Cyabra, a social media intelligence company in Tel Aviv, “and it’s impacting the war in a way that is probably just as effective as any other tactic on the ground.” Cyabra has documented at least 40,000 bots or inauthentic accounts online since Hamas attacked Israel from Gaza on Oct. 7.

...

[yardwork]

24. Each of those players have good reasons for wanting Biden out and Trump back in the White House.

[sarisataka]

6. Not everything is the fault of outside agents

There is plenty of hate and stupidity in this country.

[yardwork]

48. Agreed. However, I think the propaganda campaign was planned.

It's disgusting that so many people have enough biases against Jewish people that they jump right on the bandwagon.

[dutch777]

4. The situation is certainly No Win for the US and clearly not helping Biden/Dems in the upcoming election

Hard to find a clear and reasonable middle ground here. Israel has the right to defend itself and want to eliminate Hamas just as we did with the Taliban after 9/11. Just as clearly the Palestinians (separating them as a people from Hamas and Hezbollah) have rights to be free and independent and not subject to ongoing Israeli attack and subjugation. My personal view is we control enough money and could withhold it from both parties ongoing until such time as they sit down at a negotiating table and figure out a two sovereign state solution where they both recognize the right of the other to exist. We do this in coalition with many allies that see no good of any Mideast conflict and we dangle the carrot of rebuilding funds and UN peacekeepers to maintain peaceful borders. This must be on a firm timeline or it will just be more dithering like the last 20 years or we/they will stay in this endlessly and increasingly violent cycle of conflict and instability. Biden/US either makes a bold move soon or we suffer a death of a thousand cuts of really bad PR and instability in a key region of the world and heighten terrorist acts against US and other Western interests.

[dutch777]

9. Totally agree. We/the West only wins by being a fair arbiter and sooner than later

[Kennah]

39. And there was an endgame in Afghanistan

Declare it as a US territory and 50K troops remain forever. Simple. I mean the conquest of Afghanistan was attempted by the Persians, Greeks, Kushan Empire, Arab Caliphates, Mongol Empire, Timur, Mughal Empire, Sikh Empire, the Brits (three times), and the Soviets (three times). But what do they know.

[maxsolomon]

64. that was the endgame in Afghanistan?

news to me.

[shrike3]

85. I know people on both sides of this issue.

I have heard them all out. In some cases, the language on both sides has been strikingly similar. I don't think anyone is consciously aping the other side. I just think both sides are equally passionate. The more I learn, the more pessimistic I get. The situation is more complicated than I ever would have imagined.

[NCIndie]

10. Unfortunately, the protests have no focus and little impact.

Defacing a library simply because the name of the building might be Jewish.
Gathering outside a business simply because the owner's religion is Jewish.

Antisemitism is still disgusting, regardless of the context.

[EllieBC]

16. How is defacing property and circling Jewish students

On campuses peaceful?

How is suggesting finding the children of American Jewish and Zionist journalists peaceful?

How is putting out maps of Jewish owned business to harass peaceful?

[EllieBC]

27. How is that peaceful?

Explain how harassing a Jewish owned business in Philly is peaceful?

Come on now. Surely you can answer that.

[EllieBC]

36. So then all Muslim owned business anywhere

should be protested loudly and shouts of rape and terrorist lobbed at them because of 9/11 or Oct 7 ?

No? Of course not. Because that’s just fucking stupid.

So which is it, Claudette? You only hold Jews everywhere collectively responsible or you hold all people collectively responsible for what some members of their communities or governments do?

[Sympthsical]

41. You're defending crowds gathering against Jewish shopkeepers

Mask way the hell off, IMO.

It amazes me this is on DU.

[Sympthsical]

50. You are defending it

And anyone who reads this sub-thread can see it. A poster decried protesting of Jewish names and Jewish shops, and you came swooping in with your defense of peaceful protest and how it isn't antisemitic.

I don't accept your confounding or backpedaling of your clear sequence of statements and what they were in response to.

The context is crucifying. Memory doesn't only go thirty seconds back at need. I can remember whole minutes at a time. And that sequence of posts is very, very clear.

[Jedi Guy]

56. Any second now...

You're going to get an indignant reply asking how you dare accuse them of anti-Semitism and it'll end with "Bye." I've seen that more than a few times from that person.

Pretty rich, honestly. The total and complete lack of self-awareness is astounding.

[Sympthsical]

58. Defending crowds gathering around Jewish shops

"As long as they're not violent!"

Jesus effing christ. Where am I?!

"As long as they're not violent!"

Yeah, here's the thing about that. Once you allow and defend targeting of that nature, things have a history of getting violent.

Would this defense come if a bunch of Trumpers started gathering and shouting at Muslim shop owners? I highly suspect not. I guess Jews always get to be this special exception for some mysterious reason.

[Jedi Guy]

70. Yeah, the corollaries occurred to me, too.

I can't imagine anyone being so blasé if, say, white supremacists were standing outside a Black-owned business. They would, I'm sure, rightly call that out as racist and vile even if it is protected speech.

But because it's a Jewish shop that's being targeted, it gets an apathetic shrug and a "It's free speech, whatcha gonna do?" When those protests do become violent and morph into a 21st century Kristallnacht, I'm sure the usual suspects will rush to assure us that no, it's not anti-Semitism. For reasons.

[lapucelle]

60. I read this last week...

By the way, Hamas is a terrible terrorist group, but they are NOT the same as Hitler and the Nazis. They want their own state for Palestinians - period - not to be under Israel's thumb as prisoners.

[Jedi Guy]

69. That actually surprises me a little.

This same person, in response to Hamas's stated intent to perpetrate more attacks like 10/7, said that they "think and hope that other members of Hamas think differently." As if Hamas isn't a violent terrorist organization whose stated goal is the eradication of Israel and the slaughter of Jews.

But if you point out to them that they're being anti-Semitic and carrying water for Hamas, they sure are quick to get righteously indignant even though it's literally right there in prior posts. Absolutely wild.

[Cha]

83. Rec Thanks for that Glaring reminder...

This is What HAMAS is ALL About and Everyone Especially on this Board should know that..

Understanding Hamas’s Genocidal Ideology

Released on August 18, 1988, the original covenant spells out clearly Hamas’s genocidal intentions. Accordingly, what happened in Israel on Saturday is completely in keeping with Hamas’s explicit aims and stated objectives. It was in fact the inchoate realization of Hamas’s true ambitions.

The most relevant of the document’s 36 articles can be summarized as falling within four main themes:

The complete destruction of Israel as an essential condition for the liberation of Palestine and the establishment of a theocratic state based on Islamic law (Sharia),
The need for both unrestrained and unceasing holy war (jihad) to attain the above objective,
The deliberate disdain for, and dismissal of, any negotiated resolution or political settlement of Jewish and Muslim claims to the Holy Land, and
The reinforcement of historical anti-Semitic tropes and calumnies married to sinister conspiracy theories.

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2023/10/hamas-covenant-israel-attack-war-genocide/675602/

Hamas: ‘Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it’

Over a month after Hamas’ brutal attack on Israel and her people, both parties have agreed to a deal on hostage and prisoner exchanges, and a ceasefire to allow humanitarian aid into Gaza. While civilians will receive food, water, and emergency care amid the exchange negotiations, Hamas’ radical indoctrination of antisemitism will continue to spread.

“The Day of Judgement will not come about until Moslems fight Jews and kill them. Then the Jews will hide behind rocks and trees, and the rocks and trees will cry out: O’ Moslem, there is a Jew hiding behind me, come and kill him,” reads the Hamas Covenant that outlines a path to the group’s goal of destroying Israel through jihad. This mantra, riddled with blatant hate, was clearly reflected when the terrorist group broke an ongoing ceasefire with its attack on Israel on October 7 that prompted this wave of conflict. Footage of Israeli citizens being shot while driving their cars, children being murdered in their bunk beds, and families hunted in their own neighborhoods brings this atrocity of a covenant to the public eye.

https://newhouse.house.gov/media/weekly-columns-and-op-eds/hamas-israel-will-exist-and-will-continue-exist-until-islam-will

[Sugarcoated]

65. Extremist acts

change no minds

[NCIndie]

17. The examples I gave are real.

Protests against non-Israeli affiliated entities are not protests against the bombing of Palestinians.

[Mossfern]

66. against people whose only "crime"

is that they're Jewish?

Those loud, nasty speaking crowds shouting at innocent shop owners or anyone
is terrorism. How do you think those shop keepers, students, teachers felt?
Gangs of people screaming accusations is bullying at the best and gets very very close to
morphing into physical action and harm = terrorism.

You post with a naive tone, but your agenda is clear.

"bye"

[sarisataka]

18. It isn't rocket science...

Accusing Biden of genocide- not antisemitic
Accusing a Jewish owned business of genocide- antisemitic

Starting a movement to withdraw support from Biden for US support of Israel- not antisemitic
Defacing a Jewish name on a library- antisemitic

Marching in support of Palestinians and calling for a free Palestine- not antisemitic
Displaying swastikas while marching- antisemitic

I hope this helps some people figure it out.

[Mountainguy]

22. If the KKK

Held a rally to protest LBJ for support of civil rights legislation, would that be racist?

Protesting Biden support of Israel can certainly be antisemitic depending on the motivation.

[sarisataka]

28. It can be but is more nuanced

I am not willing to cast a blanket accusation that all pro-Palestinian protesters are equivalent to the KKK- a hate group. I can accept the some have similar motivation.

[David__77]

20. Of course there's no "protest central" directing everything.

The right acted like there was with BLM and response to killing of George Floyd. There wasn’t such an entity nor is there now.

[Marcus IM]

46. I remember a fair bit of cheering here for the protests against tRump cabinet members at restaurants.

And I remember the mewling over it by said regime who supported kidnapping children from asylum seekers.

Now the same regime leader calls protesters against them "vermin".

[Walleye]

34. I agree, this is reminding me of the "protests" at the 2016 democratic convention

[Marcus IM]

47. The PUMAs. Is that them?

[shrike3]

86. I think the PUMAs were at the 2008 convention, when Obama got the nom and Hillary didn't.

[Danmel]

15. They are unrelenting

We were in Manhattan Saturday and a "pro-Palestine" group was marching through the theater district, carrying signs that included "Genocide Joe has got to go."
Not sure what they are hoping to accomplish.

[The Contrarian]

19. It's pretty obvious what they are trying to accomplish

They are trying to persuade President Biden to stop funding Israel, and hence stop the bombing.

[Basic LA]

40. Exactly! Remember "Hey hey LBJ ...

... How many kids have you killed today?" That wasn't pretty either but it was a sincere cry to end the slaughter. (And it wasn't a "commie" plot.)

[Mossfern]

68. Sure, I remember that

but that was a war that the US was involved in, with US soldiers having boots on the ground.
Biden doesn't have direct power anywhere in the Middle East.

[Basic LA]

71. Not a direct parallel, true enough.

But we are involved, as main sponsor & backer.

[Bobstandard]

53. Some simply desire more chaos

The forces of entropy are subsumed into every movement everywhere

[NorseSaxonCelt]

72. Putin wants chaos

He wants a President that backs him. Biden does not.
Chaos is getting right wing lunatics elected..(Netherlands and Argentina) .So turning the left against Biden, while telling Gen Z what to think on TikTok is what is happening. Teaching Gen Z to hate the West as oppressors, and to hate their own country.., and now they seem to converting to Islam..with the right propaganda... Chinese Social media, helping Russia and Iran to weaken out democracies, through the minds of the young.

[leftstreet]

26. Imagine if this had happened on Trump's watch

The antiwar movement would be huge

sigh

[David__77]

30. He will make the case it wouldn't have happened on his watch.

[AllaN01Bear]

37. let me get this straight. you want a 2 time impeached but not removed , a huge rap sheet and u want him as prez?

[Think. Again.]

42. I'm getting very concerned about...

...how this situation is dividing the leftwing before the very important upcoming election.

You can see it clearly even here in these DU posts.

Maybe we should consider tuning down the hate-speak aimed at left-leaning groups.

We can discuss things among ourselves that we feel strongly about in less crass and aggressive ways, can't we?

Let's save the vitriol for right-leaning targets.

[CincyDem]

59. Absolutely correct.

I sense at times that you and I don't fully agree on the ME...and on this point I believe we are 1000% in agreement.

There is no doubt the ME is a mess right now and if we (the proactive, liberal left) take our eye off the ball now, I believe we will look back at this time as "the good old days". Now, before people jump, that's not intended to minimize the mess we have on our hands today, no matter what side you're on. My intention is to highlight what the future could bring with Trump 2.0.

Just like 2016, he's telling us what will happen in a 2024+ Trump administration. The difference is that in 2016, many did not believe his extremism and in 2023/4 many are not paying attention to his extremism.

I disagree with the protesters outside a deli in Philly AND the last thing I want to see is a response that includes police and/or military empowered to bring in the water canons and horses to arrest and detain them indefinitely without charges. That's insane and I believe that kind of action in response to many public protests will be perfectly acceptable during Trump's retribution term. Anyone who thinks "oh - he wouldn't do that" isn't paying attention.

If I must choose between my vociferous support of Israel throughout this time and my genetic support for American democracy...as painful as it will be to me I know I will choose the latter in every situation. And I hope every US DU member, no matter their "side" today, can say that confidently because something this important can't fall into the "goes without saying" category.

IMHO

[Think. Again.]

62. Well written...

...Thank you for your clear (and civil) words on that.

I agree that yes, there are some extremely important and emotionally challenging things going on right now, and yes, we each should be standing strong for our values and positions, and I'm glad to see that we agree there is also an extremely important situation coming up in November 2024 that will require our mutual cooperation and solidarity.

[yardwork]

73. I disagree strongly that the problem is any "hate speech" aimed at lefties.

I'm not going to sit back and let antisemitic attacks slide. The people engaging in antisemitic speech need to tone down the hate speech. I'm not confused about this.

[MistakenLamb]

49. these people are gonna be a problem in chicago next year

why can’t they take the train to Milwaukee instead?

[LakeArenal]

51. If any group chooses to vote against their best interests, that's not Biden's fault.

[JohnSJ]

54. Fuck them. This Biden trashing is the same bullshit done to Hillary in 2016.

[maxsolomon]

55. Hey, ding dongs: BIDEN IS NOT PRESIDENT OF ISRAEL.

He cannot hand out orders to the IDF, he cannot force them to make peace.

Hard as it may be to believe, what the IDF is doing in Gaza actually is being mitigated by US diplomatic pressure. Blinken's not over there saying "yeah, use as many 2000-lb bombs on apartment buildings as you can".

[David__77]

57. US military aid can be withheld.

[maxsolomon]

61. I don't know if you're idealistic or naive.

Given our historic relationship with Israel, you know that cutting off aid is not going to happen. US policy under a Center-Left Democratic President is not going to change from being Israel's best friend to handing out ultimatums. Certainly not in the wake of 10/7.

Israel is not fully dependent on US Military Aid. They'd continue this campaign regardless.

[JohnSJ]

63. +++

[EX500rider]

75. US military aid is only 7% of their military budget on average

[shrike3]

87. Really? Thanks, I didn't know that.

[EX500rider]

88. Here:

In 2022 the US gave Israel $3.3 billion
In 2022 Israel spent $23.4bn on its military

I think they can survive without the 7% if they had too, they could most likely switch some things around and not even lower their military budget.

They also make a lot of what they need.
Ministry of Defense Spokesperson's Statement: Israel Sets New Record in Defense Exports: Over $12.5 Billion in 2022. Israeli defense exports have doubled in less than a decade and increased by 50% in 3 years.

[shrike3]

89. Appreciate the info.

They most certainly could continue, based on those figures.

I know a few well-meaning people who think Biden can simply snap his fingers, yank back money, and all hostilities would cease tomorrow. I'll pass this along to them.

[Cha]

84. Fuck the Stupid Anti Pres Biden protesters. HAMAS is the Genocidal Terrorists.

Hamas Broke the Ceasefire! Talk to HAMAS

Understanding Hamas’s Genocidal Ideology

Released on August 18, 1988, the original covenant spells out clearly Hamas’s genocidal intentions. Accordingly, what happened in Israel on Saturday is completely in keeping with Hamas’s explicit aims and stated objectives. It was in fact the inchoate realization of Hamas’s true ambitions.

The most relevant of the document’s 36 articles can be summarized as falling within four main themes:

The complete destruction of Israel as an essential condition for the liberation of Palestine and the establishment of a theocratic state based on Islamic law (Sharia),
The need for both unrestrained and unceasing holy war (jihad) to attain the above objective,
The deliberate disdain for, and dismissal of, any negotiated resolution or political settlement of Jewish and Muslim claims to the Holy Land, and
The reinforcement of historical anti-Semitic tropes and calumnies married to sinister conspiracy theories.

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2023/10/hamas-covenant-israel-attack-war-genocide/675602/

Not sure Why you're giving HAMAS a pass on this.

Hamas: ‘Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it’

Over a month after Hamas’ brutal attack on Israel and her people, both parties have agreed to a deal on hostage and prisoner exchanges, and a ceasefire to allow humanitarian aid into Gaza. While civilians will receive food, water, and emergency care amid the exchange negotiations, Hamas’ radical indoctrination of antisemitism will continue to spread.

“The Day of Judgement will not come about until Moslems fight Jews and kill them. Then the Jews will hide behind rocks and trees, and the rocks and trees will cry out: O’ Moslem, there is a Jew hiding behind me, come and kill him,” reads the Hamas Covenant that outlines a path to the group’s goal of destroying Israel through jihad. This mantra, riddled with blatant hate, was clearly reflected when the terrorist group broke an ongoing ceasefire with its attack on Israel on October 7 that prompted this wave of conflict. Footage of Israeli citizens being shot while driving their cars, children being murdered in their bunk beds, and families hunted in their own neighborhoods brings this atrocity of a covenant to the public eye.

https://newhouse.house.gov/media/weekly-columns-and-op-eds/hamas-israel-will-exist-and-will-continue-exist-until-islam-will

[BlueTsunami2018]

74. Just how the fuck is President Biden responsible for "genocide"?

I found these people annoying before but now I’m beginning to outright hate them. This is beyond stupid, it’s beyond ridiculous, it’s fucking dangerous. The very country in which these dunces are apparently living is teetering on the brink of fascism and this is the hill they want to die on? You want to defeat the person who is holding our democracy together by the skin of our teeth and install an open dictator? Just what the fuck is going on here?

I swear Putin and his people are geniuses with the propaganda and misinformation. This is working so well for them it’s almost unbelievable. Almost.

I don’t want to be associated with this. That’s all we need is this kind of horseshit linked to the Democratic Party. It’ll be lights out next year. Good bye America, you’ve killed yourself.

We better figure something out soon because this is all bad.

[beaglelover]

76. These protesters are idiots. Biden can't force Israel to do anything, he can only advise.

And he's advised them to ramp it down.

[David__77]

78. The US can withhold military aid.

Right now, as the military campaign unfolds, the fact is that the executive branch proposes giving Israel $18 billion in military aid, which, by the way, is equal to about $1,900 per citizen of Israel.

[Stinky The Clown]

82. Ask yourself who is served by chanting against Biden less than a year before our presidential election.

[Sugarcoated]

90. This

👆👆👆

[tritsofme]

92. They are either the pawns and useful idiots of Trump/Putin, or their affirmative supporters

Those are the only two options.

[David__77]

96. It was a relatively small minority protesting then.

Not that it takes a majority to have a big impact.

[David__77]

98. I think there can be a sort of "conservatizing" effect related to gaining a sense of becoming a stakeholder.

"If you can't beat them, join them" may sometimes be in play. I'm sure there's a diversity of reasons for people's evolution over time. Hopefully the wisdom of older people and the initiative of younger people can complement each other - I think it's a nice idea anyways.