How do I deal with a family member I feel I am losing to anti-Israel and anti-Jewish propaganda?

[PeaceWave]

This family member - someone whom the rest of my extremely pro-Democrat / anti-Trump family is quite fond of - has been texting the rest of us some extremely anti-Biden text messages. When the conflict in Israel first began, this family member initially claimed that everything that has happened - including the murders committed by Hamas - was Netanyahu's fault. I was shocked and heartbroken to read what this family member wrote. They have gone on to text messages of a disturbingly anti-Jewish bent - suggesting Jewish political intervention throughout the world. This is not a dumb person. This person is college educated, otherwise articulate - but shockingly obtuse to what Hamas did to Israel on October 7th and to what Hamas is as an entity. When I first read the text messages from this family member, I delicately suggested being careful about injecting one's self into this issue. Our family is neither Muslim or Jewish. This family member also works with a number of prominent members of the Jewish community where they live. Again, very delicately, I explained to this person that their job would almost certainly be on the line if their text messages went out to the wrong person. The impression I currently get is that this family member is either trying to persuade us to their side or is resentful of us for not agreeing with them. Went this person sends out these messages, none of the rest of us has responded in agreement. But, it's been escalating every day it seems. This family member is now saying how much they dislike Biden for "not making Israel stop the war" and won't vote for Biden if "he doesn't do something." I have texted a few articles explaining the slim margin of victory in most elections. Basically, I'm saying "the absence of your vote will be felt." The message isn't getting through. I feel like my family is losing this family member to God only knows what propaganda they are reading. I wonder too, in the cumulative, how many families are dealing with something similar. Is this how Trump wins - by dividing us against ourselves, one family member at a time?

[H2O Man]

1. I wouldn't bother

with that person. Not right now, anyhow. They will either come to their senses by next November, or serve as a confused example for the rest of the family. Most people understand that the US does not dictate to Israel. There are people with sincere concerns about this country supplying any of the weapons being used -- and that is a valid discussion -- who are still voting for the Democratic Party ticket.

[JI7]

2. I don't think there is anything new about this person's views

similar to the people that support Trump they are just more open about their views.

I would focus on the other family members and make sure they aren't falling for the propaganda .

[Aussie105]

3. Text messages?

Try replying with this:

"You have the right to think what you want.
So do I.
Your messages are not appreciated.
Please stop. I will ignore them."

Repeat this message every time he sends something along similar lines.

Unfortunately you are annoyed by his messages because he has taken one side while you have taken the opposite.

I'm anti-war and am not taking sides in this conflict.
Makes it easy to ignore what some say.

[yardwork]

16. I don't think the OP is "annoyed" because they've taken opposing sides.

I read the OP as alarmed that their relative is spreading anti-Biden messaging, as part of an effort to convince people not to vote for Biden in 2024.

I also read the OP to be very concerned that their relative is suddenly spreading vile antisemitic talk.

These are pretty serious issues. Still, your advice to cut off contact might be necessary. Another poster suggested trying to find common ground. If that doesn't work, setting down clear boundaries as you suggest will be necessary.

[Dorian Gray]

4. Propaganda

Is working, unfortunately. Sowing divisions.

If this family member is someone you genuinely care about, call them. Talk to them about things other than politics. Be a supportive presence in their lives. And if the subject comes up organically, have an honest discussion about why you believe what you believe. Find a point where you can agree and work from there.

Oftentimes cutting through the haze of misinformation is through a connection point. If you insist on being right, they'll harden their hearts to hearing what you have to say.

It sucks doing this, sometimes, especially when you know in your heart that they're filled with misinformation, but it's the only way through the blurry haze of bad info.

[yardwork]

15. This might be the best advice.

It's clear that propaganda is aimed at depressing voter turnout for Biden. People who want Trump to win are funding this propaganda, and it's taking hold.

So what do we do? We know that people who have been taken in by propaganda aren't easy to reason with - we've seen that with MAGAs. Arguing with this person probably will just harden their positions.

Trying to establish some common ground in other areas might keep communication lines open. It's worth a try.

[Think. Again.]

5. You might want to try sharing with them...

...some of the less publicized statements and positions that the Biden administration has made which make it clear that the Biden camp is very concerned with netanyahu's disregard for Palestinian civilian lives, just as your loved one is.

[Happy Hoosier]

10. If they are making comments about "Jewish political intervention"...

... it is NOT just concern for Palestinian civilians.

Please, PLEASE do not try to downplay Antisemitism couched as being "concern for Palestinian civilians."

Yes, there are people concerned about civilian deaths.... someone who touts some sort of Jewish Cabal is not one of them. It's the 21st century blood libel.

[Think. Again.]

12. I'm not sure what you're referring to....

...I don't believe I've seen the Biden administration speaking about "Jewish political intervention", but there have been numerous statements made by members of the administration that should assure people who are concerned about the protection of the civilian population that Biden shares that concern.

V.P. Harris even used a moment at COP28 this week to express those concerns, and other members of the administration have done so also.

There should be no reason why anyone would think that the human rights issues in Gaza are not being deeply considered by Biden.

[Happy Hoosier]

13. Did you read the OP?

The OP's post mentions his relative referencing "jewish political intervention" world-wide.

That's straight up Antisemitic horseshit. 'His relative isn;t just concerned about civilian deaths.

Did you miss that?

[Think. Again.]

20. No, I didn't miss that..

...but the OP was specifically about the concern that the family member is turning away from Biden due to misinformation about how Biden is responding to the Gaza situation, and was seeking advice to help the family member understand the truth about that.

From the OP:

"This family member is now saying how much they dislike Biden for "not making Israel stop the war" and won't vote for Biden if "he doesn't do something."

I responded accordingly.

[hlthe2b]

6. I would start by defending the Israeli people, not Netanyahu's policies, (which our own government

under Biden has long criticized as well). The Biden administration is now doing all it can to defend the people of Israel, the country of Israel, but likewise trying to contain Netanyahu and the Likudists' most extreme, reactive, and ultimately self-damaging response that we, too, went through after 911. There IS a difference between criticizing Netanyahu's historic policies and governance and launching an abysmal antisemitic attack on the people/country of Israel or Jews in general. Perhaps (if you choose to engage at all), you can make that clear.

[Irish_Dem]

7. Tell them the truth.

They have fallen hook, line and sinker for Russian propaganda.

Putin is desperate and intends to install Trump by any means possible.
Including backing HAMAS and waging a propaganda war to put Biden in a no win situation.
To divide democrats and weaken Biden's base.

And it is working exceptionally well.

Then walk away from your family member and let that fact sink in.

[Axelrods_Typewriter]

8. So many have become useful idiots for Putin over the past two months!

And many people need to get it in their heads that you don't need to fly a swastika or like that man with a tiny moustache to be anti-Jewish.

[Irish_Dem]

14. So many Americans are happy to be on Putin's side.

They want a white male Christian minority rule and Putin will give them that.

[CincyDem]

9. Yeah...their anti-semitism has been enabled.

It’s finally socially safe to express the anti-Semitic resentment that they’ve been nurturing likely for some time. Israel is being used to bring grievance politics to our side of the aisle. It’s why so many are suddenly willing to throw American democracy out the window over a conflict in a country few could find in a map on 10/6.

Rather than talking about people - Biden or Netanyahu - see if freedom still matters to them and focus on that. What freedoms do they enjoy for them and their families that are at risk in a trump 2.0 world. It’s not a cure but it may be enough to get back to rational conversation.

Good luck.

[yardwork]

19. I think it's true that this propaganda is enabled by pervasive antisemitic biases.

In many ways this is as big a wake up call as the murder of George Floyd, but this time it's some people who consider themselves progressives who need to do some reckoning and confront their own biases.

Our culture is full of racism and antisemitism (as well as a number of other ugly biases) and the antisemitism has become quite clear in recent weeks.

[edisdead]

11. Say your goodbyes?

Say your goodbyes either privately or publicly and walk away?

Honestly I stopped caring for people that can do this shit. I will only try to change their mind for so long and then it becomes too hurtful to me. Too much stress over the relationship isn’t good for anyone.

People make their choices on these issues. You can’t force them and if it bothers you that much (and it should) walk away. Don’t care how close of a relative they are.

[Mosby]

17. One thing you might try before giving up

Is ask them about their sources of information. Then do a little research and explain to them gently why the sources are biased. I suspect they are relying on socialist, Marxist websites, and possibly propaganda sites like greyzone, RT, etc. They also might be reading antisemitic sites like veterans today, whatreallyhappened and ifamericansknew. The last one is making a big push on twitter right now.

[yardwork]

18. The propaganda campaign is so pervasive, the disinformation is everywhere now.

This person could be hearing these things from a trusted friend or colleague.

I agree that the likely source of this propaganda is the same Russian troll farms who helped elect Trump in 2016 and helped get Brexit passed - not to mention meddling in numerous elections worldwide.

It's a nightmare for democracy. I wish people would show more discretion.

[CincyDem]

21. What many people fail to realize is that WWIII is happening between their ears.

And it’s being welcomed in unknowingly because it’s tapping into pre existing bias…both good and bad.

[yardwork]

23. So true! People are allowing their judgment to be clouded by emotion and biases.

Reasonably, how can anybody think that not voting for Biden will improve human rights?

[PeaceWave]

22. Thank you all for your thoughtful replies.

I hardly ever post here. It took quite a bit for me to unload what I am observing within my own family. So, I would be remiss if I did not thank you all for not judging me. After reading your posts, I have one additional thing I would like to discuss. My family is of Guatemalan descent. My understanding is that there is a long history of good relations between Israel and Guatemala. I have read about Netanyahu saying that Guatemala Street is a common street name in Israel in thanks to Guatemala being one of the first countries to acknowledge Israel's independent statehood. Anecdotally from a much older family member, I know that many Jews lived in Guatemala as far back as the 1930's. I speculate these were primarily European refugees fleeing the Nazis. The family member I am concerned about suggested that this Jewish presence was somehow bad and that Israeli cooperation with Guatemala over the years was also bad. I think this is the root of why this person is now so easily condemning Israel. Where this family member ingested what I believe was misinformation I don't know...Possibly from his father, who collects biases like some folks collect stamps. I am left wondering if propaganda only takes root where fallow ground already exists - in which case the family member who I am concerned about isn't really the progressive he otherwise portrays himself to be. In terms of how I will deal with this, I don't yet know. I'm not the confrontational type. At the same time, I don't want to hold a grudge against this family member if Trump wins by a handful of votes and the world is left asking once more "How the F did this happen?" The first time Trump won, I did not have an answer to that question. This time around, I feel like I would have part of the answer. Something needs to be done - NOW. I need to say something to this family member - SOON. I hope that anyone else experiencing what I am experiencing realizes the seriousness of the matter. The very Democratic ideal for peace is being conflated with something sinister, something rooted in bias and misinformation - and it has the potential to tear us apart, not just as a Party but also as a family.

[PufPuf23]

30. Efrain Rios Montt

From wiki:

José Efraín Ríos Montt (Spanish: [efɾaˈin ˈrios ˈmont]; 16 June 1926 – 1 April 2018) was a Guatemalan military officer who served as de facto President of Guatemala from 1982 to 1983. His brief tenure as chief executive was one of the bloodiest periods in the long-running Guatemalan Civil War. Ríos Montt's counter-insurgency strategies significantly weakened the Marxist guerrillas organized under the umbrella of the Guatemalan National Revolutionary Unity (URNG), while also leading to accusations of war crimes and acts of genocide perpetrated by the Guatemalan Army under his leadership.

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Because of repeated vote-rigging and the blatant corruption of the military establishment, the 1982 coup was initially welcomed by many Guatemalans. Ríos Montt's reputation for honesty, his leadership of the opposition in the 1974 election, and his vision of "education, nationalism, an end to want and hunger, and a sense of civic pride" were widely appealing.[17] In April 1982, U.S. Ambassador Frederic L. Chapin declared that thanks to the coup of Ríos Montt, "the Guatemalan government has come out of the darkness and into the light."[20] However, Chapin soon afterward reported that Ríos Montt was "naïve and not concerned with practical realities."[21] Drawing on his Pentecostal beliefs, Ríos Montt compared the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse to the four modern evils of hunger, misery, ignorance, and subversion. He also pledged to fight corruption and what he described as the depredations of the rich.

Dictatorship

The government junta immediately declared martial law and suspended the constitution, shut down the legislature, and set up special tribunals (tribunales de fuero especial) to prosecute both common criminals and political dissidents. On April 10, the junta launched the National Growth and Security Plan, whose stated goals were to end indiscriminate violence and teach the populace about Guatemalan nationalism. The junta also announced that it sought to integrate peasants and indigenous peoples into the Guatemalan state, declaring that because of their illiteracy and "immaturity," they were particularly vulnerable to the seductions of "international communism."[citation needed] The government intensified its military efforts against the URNG guerrillas and, on April 20, 1982, launched a new counter-insurgency operation known as Victoria 82.[22]

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Guatemala's poor record on human rights and the refusal of General Ríos Montt to call immediately for new elections prevented the Reagan administration from restoring US aid to Guatemala, which would have required the consent of the US Congress.[50] The Reagan administration did continue the sale of helicopter parts to the Guatemalan military, even though a then-secret 1983 CIA cable noted a rise in "suspect right-wing violence" and an increasing number of bodies "appearing in ditches and gullies."[51]

Israel, which had been supplying arms to Guatemala since 1974, continued its aid provisions during Ríos Montt's government. The cooperation did not just involve hardware but also included providing intelligence and operational training, carried out both in Israel and Guatemala. In 1982, Ríos Montt told ABC News that his success was due to the fact that "our soldiers were trained by Israelis." There was not much outcry in Israel at the time about its involvement in Guatemala, though the support for Ríos Montt was no secret. According to journalist Victor Perera, in 1985, at a cemetery in Chichicastenango, relatives of a man killed by the military told him that "in church they tell us that divine justice is on the side of the poor; but the fact of the matter is, it is the military who get the Israeli guns."[52]

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Efra%C3%ADn_R%C3%ADos_Montt

[Chakaconcarne]

24. Maybe it's not about which side is right....

But more about 2 sides can have differing viewpoints and that's ok...

As bad as they want it, neither side is going to be the winner here...

[maxsolomon]

25. I have this dilemma with my daughter

She's read a great deal on the topic, including "Except For Palestine". She's quite invested in the "Settler Colonist" understanding of the Levant. She does not believe that Israel has a historical right to exist as a State.

I am not going to convince her to change this opinion.

My question is always "what now?" If Israel's existence is a result of British Colonialism and an illegitimate Zionism, what is the solution? "From the River to the Sea"? That's not going to happen. Israel merge with Gaza & the West Bank, change the nation to "Palestine", and enact reparations for the Nakba, including return of appropriated property? Can anyone imagine that happening?

Some of Britain's Colonial Projects are never going to be undone: America, Canada, Australia, New Zealand. Israel is the most recent, and it's vastly more complicated by history.

[PeaceWave]

28. Well said.

Unfortunately, if I made this same argument, my own family member would almost certainly respond that the United States should be given back to the native Americans. Thanksgiving has already become a fiasco with this same family member recently refusing to acknowledge a "colonial holiday" and only willing to eat Mexican and Central American food on Thanksgiving. I always considered our family lucky not to have any Trumpers. Little did I realize what was coming from the Left.

[maxsolomon]

29. Well, I applaud the menu at least. Turkey, corn and squash are Native foods.

Last edited Thu Dec 7, 2023, 02:33 PM - Edit history (1)

but "Give it back" is an absurd argument, as smallpox killed the vast majority of Natives without a single colonizer shot being fired.

add to that, native tribes didn't own property in the sense we understand it. in many cases, they'd conquered their territories from previous inhabitants - through force.

[LakeArenal]

26. Politics and religion and war shouldn't be discussed with family.

Things get said that can’t be unsaid.

[FraDon]

27. deleated