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brooklynite

(94,489 posts)
Tue Dec 5, 2023, 05:28 PM Dec 2023

Democratic votes against HRes 894 (strongly condemning and denouncing the drastic rise of antisemitism in the US)

Bowman (NY)
Bush (MO)
Connolly (VA)
García (IL)
Grijalva (AZ)
Jayapal (WA)
Lee (PA)
Ocasio-Cortez (NY)
Omar (MN)
Pressley (MA)
Ramirez (IL)
Tlaib (MI)
Watson Coleman (NJ)

35 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Democratic votes against HRes 894 (strongly condemning and denouncing the drastic rise of antisemitism in the US) (Original Post) brooklynite Dec 2023 OP
When did Omar (MN) move to NY? Ocelot II Dec 2023 #1
Lol sarisataka Dec 2023 #4
What were their reasons? jpak Dec 2023 #2
What should I say? LiberalFighter Dec 2023 #3
Most of the Democratic caucus, rightly, did not vote yes. David__77 Dec 2023 #5
They voted Present LeftInTX Dec 2023 #8
The resolution also said anti-Zionism is antisemitism. WhiskeyGrinder Dec 2023 #6
Which is correct. nt LexVegas Dec 2023 #9
It's not, actually. WhiskeyGrinder Dec 2023 #10
Why don't Jews get self determination like every other peoples on earth? NutmegYankee Dec 2023 #29
Anti-Zionism *often is* antisemitism... Silent3 Dec 2023 #13
Are we defining anti-Zionism sarisataka Dec 2023 #11
So an American anti-Zionist Jewish person, by not being dual-loyalist enough, is thus antisemitic in the eyes WhiskeyGrinder Dec 2023 #15
It is an interesting conundrum sarisataka Dec 2023 #19
What the actual fuck? OilemFirchen Dec 2023 #20
This is non-binding...LOL It's more or less a "political statement" LeftInTX Dec 2023 #21
Right, because ACTUAL FUCKING NAZIS maxrandb Dec 2023 #26
Thats why i just stay away from the word.. TheRealNorth Dec 2023 #22
I haven't seen the text of the resolution sarisataka Dec 2023 #25
Yes, it was written to divide "expose" Democrats as not being patriotic enough to put Israel before the US. LeftInTX Dec 2023 #27
This message was self-deleted by its author Nanjeanne Dec 2023 #28
Albert Einstein and Isaac Asimov -- who knew they were antisemitic? And all the Hassidim too! Nanjeanne Dec 2023 #32
Initially, there was more than one flavor of Jewish Zionist. PufPuf23 Dec 2023 #34
edit - thought it was a different resolution tritsofme Dec 2023 #7
Most Democrats did not vote yes to this resolution. David__77 Dec 2023 #12
Shameful and disgusting. TheKentuckian Dec 2023 #14
I may have confused this with Nadler's resolution. tritsofme Dec 2023 #16
It was an awkward resolution. Meshing anti-zionism with anti-semitism. LeftInTX Dec 2023 #17
Not awkward... DELIBERATE B.See Dec 2023 #30
deliberately awkward LeftInTX Dec 2023 #31
This is a misleading post in that a majority of the Democratic votes were not "Yea" PufPuf23 Dec 2023 #18
True Polybius Dec 2023 #24
Come on, AOC Polybius Dec 2023 #23
How about a resolution 'strongly denouncing' the rise of anti-semitism, as well as DemocraticPatriot Dec 2023 #33
+1 leftstreet Dec 2023 #35

LiberalFighter

(50,856 posts)
3. What should I say?
Tue Dec 5, 2023, 05:33 PM
Dec 2023

I don't support Bibi. But it is ridiculous for anyone to be anti-Semitic.

There are only about 15.2 million which consists of only .02% of the world.

Israel has the most with 6,983,000 while the U.S has 6 million out of 332 million. Or 0.018% of the U.S. What are anti-Semitics afraid of?

I would also like to add that so called Christians should be worried. What happens if "Jesus" doesn't support the Christians considering he was a Jew? Maybe only the Jewish people will be "saved"?

LeftInTX

(25,223 posts)
8. They voted Present
Tue Dec 5, 2023, 05:44 PM
Dec 2023

A few voted Yea ( I recognize a local blue dog), but the Dem caucus agreed to vote Present.

NutmegYankee

(16,199 posts)
29. Why don't Jews get self determination like every other peoples on earth?
Tue Dec 5, 2023, 10:52 PM
Dec 2023

Zionism is nationalism, which virtually every ethnic group on earth adheres to.

Silent3

(15,188 posts)
13. Anti-Zionism *often is* antisemitism...
Tue Dec 5, 2023, 05:57 PM
Dec 2023

...but they are not one in the same thing.

I certainly understand and approve of the idea of Israel as a way for Jews to combat the long, ugly history of antisemitism, and have a safe homeland for themselves.

I don't, however, give two shits about anyone's religious arguments about how God supposedly decreed a piece of land to anyone.

And I certainly don't like the way anti-antisemitism and support for Israel too often get blurred with unconditional support for the policies of the Israeli government.

sarisataka

(18,570 posts)
11. Are we defining anti-Zionism
Tue Dec 5, 2023, 05:52 PM
Dec 2023

As "Israel has no right to exist"?

That is how I take it and would say it is antisemitic to say Jews have no right to their own country.

WhiskeyGrinder

(22,316 posts)
15. So an American anti-Zionist Jewish person, by not being dual-loyalist enough, is thus antisemitic in the eyes
Tue Dec 5, 2023, 05:58 PM
Dec 2023

of the federal government? Because they’re not embracing what is truly an antisemitic trope (dual loyalty)?

sarisataka

(18,570 posts)
19. It is an interesting conundrum
Tue Dec 5, 2023, 06:14 PM
Dec 2023

The fallacy I see is the claim of dual loyalty. If an American Jewish person has no loyalty to Israel, that is fine. Jews are no more a monolith than any other group.

However for that American Jew to profess to Israeli Jews they have no right to their own country would be, ironically, antisemitic. An American Jewish person has no right to tell an Israeli Jewish person what they have a "right" to believe. Of course being in a country with freedom of speech, I do not think they should face punishment for expressing that opinion peacefully.

And just to be consistent, I would also say the same if an American Palestinian were to say Palestinians in the Middle East have no right to desire their own homeland.

LeftInTX

(25,223 posts)
21. This is non-binding...LOL It's more or less a "political statement"
Tue Dec 5, 2023, 06:15 PM
Dec 2023

It's a GOP thing "I, as a member of the House of Representatives, Stand with Israel". That's what the Yea vote means. About 20 Democrats also voted Yea. Most Democrats voted Present.

maxrandb

(15,316 posts)
26. Right, because ACTUAL FUCKING NAZIS
Tue Dec 5, 2023, 06:52 PM
Dec 2023

were described by the titular head and Orange Jesus of the Retrumplican Party as "very fine people".

Retrumplican supporters of Ron Desantis march in Nazi regalia, without so much as a sternly written letter of denouncement from the GQP.

Retrumplican Party supporters carried Confederate Flags during a violent coup attempt.

The Retrumplican Party's #1 rated propaganda purveyor, with an audience that at one time was upwards of 10M, actually said; "Jews must be perfected" (ask your Rabbi, Priest, or Minister what that means)

BUT, despite all that,it's the Democratic Party that's is "racist" because they don't want to go on record supporting the idea that some invisible sky wizard came down from a cloud one day with survey tools and proclaimed 'the land inside these boundaries I bestow to you, and you alone'"????

Give me a break!

I guess MTG is not a racist, anti-semitic asshat tilting at "Jewish Space Lasers" because she voted yea.



Sell crazy someplace else, we're all stocked up here.

TheRealNorth

(9,475 posts)
22. Thats why i just stay away from the word..
Tue Dec 5, 2023, 06:21 PM
Dec 2023

It means different things to different people.

For right-wingers and probably most of the Lefties that would describe themselves as anti-zionists, Zionism implies a religious/Biblical right to all of Judea, and would in essence would be a rejection of the two-state solution and to a Palestinian homeland in the West Bank.

The language was probably intentionally written by Republicans to divide Democrats. I think that most Democrats would have signed it if it denounced antisemitism and affirmed the right of Israel to exist as a country instead of using the Zionism language.

sarisataka

(18,570 posts)
25. I haven't seen the text of the resolution
Tue Dec 5, 2023, 06:34 PM
Dec 2023

But agree the "Zionism" language was probably intended to be decisive. It has different meanings to different people and is occasionally used erroneously as a synonym for Judaism, Jews, Jewish etc.

LeftInTX

(25,223 posts)
27. Yes, it was written to divide "expose" Democrats as not being patriotic enough to put Israel before the US.
Tue Dec 5, 2023, 10:36 PM
Dec 2023

Seriously, I've seen it. Israel is more important than the US to some of those loons. It's probably a religious-right thing.

Response to WhiskeyGrinder (Reply #6)

PufPuf23

(8,764 posts)
34. Initially, there was more than one flavor of Jewish Zionist.
Tue Dec 5, 2023, 11:43 PM
Dec 2023

Some were terrorists like Begin and Irgun that morphed into IDF and gamed Israel like the GOP and MAGA gamed the USA.

TO THE EDITORS OF NEW YORK TIMES:
Among the most disturbing political phenomena of our times is the emergence in the newly created state of Israel of the "Freedom Party" (Tnuat Haherut), a political party closely akin in its organization, methods, political philosophy and social appeal to the Nazi and Fascist parties. It was formed out of the membership and following of the former Irgun Zvai Leumi, a terrorist, right-wing, chauvinist organization in Palestine.
The current visit of Menachem Begin, leader of this party, to the United States is obviously calculated to give the impression of American support for his party in the coming Israeli elections, and to cement political ties with conservative Zionist elements in the United States. Several Americans of national repute have lent their names to welcome his visit. It is inconceivable that those who oppose fascism throughout the world, if correctly informed as to Mr. Begin's political record and perspectives, could add their names and support to the movement he represents.

rest of letter, a long list of signatories, and photocopy of newspaper at:

https://archive.org/details/AlbertEinsteinLetterToTheNewYorkTimes.December41948/page/n1/mode/2up

TheKentuckian

(25,023 posts)
14. Shameful and disgusting.
Tue Dec 5, 2023, 05:58 PM
Dec 2023

Solidarity?

Not for Jews, Tiktok morons and the crusaders for the Caliphate would be mad so look at the undercarriage of the bus.

LeftInTX

(25,223 posts)
17. It was an awkward resolution. Meshing anti-zionism with anti-semitism.
Tue Dec 5, 2023, 06:01 PM
Dec 2023

]Most Democrats voted Present. They knew it would pass, but didn't agree with the anti-zionism part of the bill. Republicans voted Yea. I recognize a few blue dogs with Yeas. Most of CT, FL, MA delegation voted Yea, so I assume Jewish areas.

Eshoo Yea (kinda surprised, since she's Armenian and Assyrian)
Allred Yea (not surprised )
Gallego Yea (not surprised)

It's a non-binding statement. It's political because it's a GOP bill to see if you equated anti-zionism with anti-Semitism. So if you vote No, that means you're an anti-Semitist. If you vote Yes, it means that feel people who criticize Israel are anti-Semitic. So most just voted Present

B.See

(1,210 posts)
30. Not awkward... DELIBERATE
Tue Dec 5, 2023, 11:02 PM
Dec 2023

I believe in the right of Israel to exist. I believe in the right of Palestine to exist.
I believe both sides have been guilty of war crimes.
I believe in a peaceful resolution.

I also believe that there are extremists on both sides of the aisle, in Israel and in Palestine, who don't want peace, and never wanted it.

I believe both of these factions use their OWN people as pawns in this power play.

PufPuf23

(8,764 posts)
18. This is a misleading post in that a majority of the Democratic votes were not "Yea"
Tue Dec 5, 2023, 06:09 PM
Dec 2023

Democratic vote 95 yeas 13 nays 92 present 13 not voting

Means that 105 voters voted but were not "Yeas".

My conclusion is that a majority of Democratic reps found reason(s) not to cast a "Yea" vote for good reason.

But look, the GOP was nearly unanimous yeas.

Republican vote 216 yeas 1 nay 0 present 4 not voting

https://clerk.house.gov/Votes/2023697

DemocraticPatriot

(4,341 posts)
33. How about a resolution 'strongly denouncing' the rise of anti-semitism, as well as
Tue Dec 5, 2023, 11:18 PM
Dec 2023

the rise of anti-muslim feelings in the United States??


I would be 100% behind that one...


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