Hey! There are WAAAAY too many accustions of anti-semitism here. Is Sen. Bernie Sanders an anti-Semite?

[TeamProg]

Even ONE is too many.

Is Sen. Bernie Sanders an anti-Semite?


On funding Ukraine and Israel.

“””
The vote was 49-51, with Republicans voting against moving forward with the bill, along with Sen. Bernie Sanders, I-Vt., who caucuses with Democrats. Sanders has said he opposes giving aid to Israel unconditionally unless Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s government changes its practice, which he has called “immoral” and “in violation of international law.”
"""""""

Are Democratic Reps. AOC and Tlaib are anti-semites?

Do you think that Netanyahu’s methods are helping the hostage situation?

[tritsofme]

1. It's not the accusations that are the problem, it's the actual anti-Semitism.

[LexVegas]

3. Yep. nt

[TeamProg]

5. The accusations ARE the problem since that is where some are defining others, right? Is Sen. Sanders

an anti-Semite? Simple question.

He seems to think the same way that many of us are thinking, yet we're called anti-Semites by others here.

It really is quite disgusting.

[tritsofme]

7. I have never seen anyone here make that accusation of Sanders, you'll have to build another straw man.

[TeamProg]

19. Do you agree with him on this? "immoral" and "in violation of international law."

Powerful statement there by Bernie.

It's a LOT easier to criticize everyday people here than it is a liberal U.S. Senator, isn't it?

[tritsofme]

31. I don't agree with Sanders on lots of things, including that.

And while I disagree with him, he has not used anti-Semitic tropes or attacks in his criticisms.

Back to your field of straw men.

[TeamProg]

35. It's a LOT easier to accuse everyday people here than it is a liberal U.S. Senator, got it. The members here being

accused of being anti-Semitic are saying nothing more than Bernie's comments at the funding vote:

""Sanders has said he opposes giving aid to Israel unconditionally unless Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s government changes its practice, which he has called “immoral” and “in violation of international law.”""

[tritsofme]

37. Again, he is wrong. But he is not using anti-Semitic tropes or attacks.

Sorry this didn’t work out how you intended?

[Ms. Toad]

63. Neither are many people here who are saying similar things to Sanders

Who are being accused of being antisemitic.

[tritsofme]

67. I haven't seen it.

[Lunabell]

76. I'm one.

[Butterflylady]

111. Oh I have,

It's gotten so bad that one DUer said we need to put a disclaimer at the bottom of a post saying we do not support Hamas in any way and they need to be wiped out.

[maxrandb]

153. And whatever you do, DON'T use the conjunction "but", or the verb "may"

I have decided to run all my drafts through my 6TH Grade English teacher, Ms. Delewese, before posting.

Just need to ensure I am not accidentally being "pro-terrorist".

[Butterflylady]

112. Oh I have.....

It's gotten so bad that one DUer said we need to put a disclaimer at the bottom of a post saying we do not support Hamas in any way and they need to be wiped out.

[JanMichael]

202. I sure have. It is pervasive here.

[The Magistrate]

34. No. I Do Not Agree

I do not agree Israel's military has violated international law, nor do I find anything particularly immoral about the war it is engaged in with the aim of liquidating an armed body of fundamentalists who make no bones about their dedication to genocide and intent to set up a theocracy when successful at it, who in furtherance of these objectives indulged themselves in a spree of sadistic murder and rape on October 7, and have since announced their intent to repeat the thing whenever opportunity arises.


"Area Radical Passionate Advocate Of What He Thinks International Law Says."

[TeamProg]

40. No doubt, Hamas committed war crimes, that is not the argument. International law says war crimes are illegal even in a

response to others' war crimes.

Not to be insensitive to your feelings, but, you are wrong.

[The Magistrate]

48. You Can Be Insensitive As You Please, Sir: I've No Feelings To Speak Of

And will content myself with observing that I consider my view of the legalities much superior to yours. And to those of an old campus radical like Mr. Sanders as well.


"Area Radical Is Passionate Advocate For What He Thinks International Law Says."

[TeamProg]

104. Your views on law are "superior" to established International Law.. oh kay..

[The Magistrate]

107. I Suggest You Actually Read the Statutes And Conventions, Sir

And go through some of the trial results from the court convened on Yugoslavia.

It will give you a better grasp of the matter than simply parroting opinions expressed by persons who share your ideological views.


"Area Radical Passionate Advocate For What He Thinks International Law Says."

[TeamProg]

158. And far more humble!

“The louder he talked of his honor, the faster we counted are spoons”

- Emerson. (not Keith)

[SoFlaBro]

172. I agree with what he is saying. "Likud is immoral and against international law". But I disagree that aid should be with

held.

How do you like them apples?

[TeamProg]

181. By giving aid the US is then contributing to the breaking

of international law.

[SoFlaBro]

185. So?

[TeamProg]

186. It lessens our standing and in the end, our own power to negotiate. um, duh.

[SoFlaBro]

192. We're not negotiating with Hamas nor any other terrorists. That's up to the proxies. Duh!

[TeamProg]

196. So sorry, I was referring to the BIG picture, the global scale, future negotiations , obviously.

[SoFlaBro]

197. It shows the world that Democrats stick by their allies and their friends. Shows that Democrats will help democracies.

[TeamProg]

199. Again, that is not looking at the big picture. Democracies (the U.S.) that support, in Sen. Bernie Sanders words,

"immoral" and against "international law" are hardly a glowing representation of Democracy.

Yes, Hamas' attack was terrorism, and Netanyahu's response? I guess we'll all find out what the rest of the world's DEMOCRACIES have to say in a year or so. The U.S. already vetoed the U.N's. cease-fire resolution. That again, will not shine brightly on the U.S. in future negotiations.

And by all means, respond only if you're itching to get on my ignore list, thanks Bro.

[SoFlaBro]

200. Don't threaten me with a good time. *Please add me to your ignore list*

[Cha]

20. Exactly.. "Strawman".. and it's Not working.

[Happy Hoosier]

57. Simple criticism isn't antisemitic...

... leveraging loaded terms that play up Antisemitic tropes IS.

The free use of terms like "genocide," or "bloodthirsty" or "colonialist" or implying nefarious world-wide Jewish influence (ALL things I've seen on this board) play into age-old Antisemitic tropes. Hell, they are practically ripped from the "Elders of Zion."

Disgusting indeed.

[Eko]

147. Hey Happy,

I think there is a lot more Antisemitism lately than there has been. I'm 100% against Antisemitism just so you know but I dont think using the words "genocide," or "bloodthirsty" or "colonialist" is Antisemitic. Antisemitic's can indeed use those words and do but I think others can use those words without being Antisemitic. All three of those words can be used to describe many nations, such as Americas push out west, The Dutch in Africa, Spain in South America. I myself try not to use those words and I haven't in reference to whats going on in Gaza but I still don't think they automatically infer Antisemitism. I think that on here we can afford to give people a bit more benefit of the doubt on both sides that people are not trying to be anything bad but just have a difference of opinion on the subject and come at this from different directions.
Thank you for listening,
Eko.

[Happy Hoosier]

154. Thanks for the thoughful discourse.

Those words aren't necessarily Antisemitic per se, but they do play into historical Antisemitic tropes. "Bloodsthirsty" in particular recalls the "Blood Libel" that long asserted that Jews use the blood of Christians, particularly Christian children and use them in ceremonies or food. So, literally blood thirsty. I don't think the use of that word by some is accidental. That is a term that, IMO, must be used VERY carefully when referring to a group of Jews.

Likewise, "Colonialist" implies the invasion of foreign people. Another trope often applied to Jews. WE've all heard how "Jews control everything" from Antisemities. So again, not AUTOMATICALLY Antisemitic, but a term that comfortably fits into Antisemitic rhetoric. When I hear terms like that used in close proximity, it conveys to ME a very uncomfortable image.

So... not AUTOMATICALLY Antisemitic, perhaps, but IMO those terms are being tossed around rather casually and that serves the interests of Antisemites, even if the person who says them aren;t explicitly Antisemitic. In other words, consider not just how you intend words, but also how they will be perceived.

Thanks!

[Eko]

170. 100%!!

consider not just how you intend words, but also how they will be perceived.
Thanks Happy!

[Hekate]

193. If only more people understood this

[PBateman70]

141. Agreed

Agreed Team Prog

[Cha]

18. TY and they're are NOT "way too many".. We know Anti-Semitism when we

We see it. We don't need to be told Otherwise.

[Celerity]

55. I've seen so many accusations of anti-semitism tossed like grenades at things that were clearly not, all of which

merely serve to set debates on courses towards wandering down 'boy who cried wolf' roads, with the diminution of actual anti-semitism being the outcome.

[madaboutharry]

85. No one is crying wolf.

merely serve to set debates on courses towards wandering down 'boy who cried wolf' roads, with the diminution of actual anti-semitism being the outcome.

I have not seen a single unwarranted accusation of antisemitism on this board. What I have seen is many antisemitic comments allowed to slide because members decided it wasn't worth an argument.

[Celerity]

99. you obviously have not looked at the same threads I have, if this is indeed the case:

Last edited Thu Dec 7, 2023, 08:50 PM - Edit history (1)

I have not seen a single unwarranted accusation of antisemitism on this board.

Some examples wherein another poster went into high dudgeon and called the following stances/statements anti semitic :

1. Calling Netanyahu and many in his government RW fascists, and pointing out the fact that Netanyahu helped to ensure Hamas stayed in power in Gaza in a disastrous divide et impera gambit

2. Exposing the outright racism, murderous violence, illegal expropriation of land, and/or homophobia of the ultra right wing illegal settlers and their leaders, including Itamar Ben-Gvir and Bezalel Smotrich.

3. Pointing out the fact that Smotrich and others openly push for a huge expansion of Israeli territory, including all of the West Bank and much, if not all of Jordan. Smotrich gives speeches with that type of map on his podiums.

4. Calling for conditionalities placed on further US military aid to israel.

5. Pointing out that international law/rules of war do indeed have rules of proportionality of response.


etc etc

[madaboutharry]

103. You wrote:

"Some examples wherein another poster went into high dungeon and called the following stances/statements anti semitic..."

I am speaking of my own experience and my own observations. I will repeat what I have written in other threads, Jews do not need to be schooled in identifying antisemitism. Very often the same people who want to lecture Jews on antisemitism, who are dismissive of when Jews assert something is antisemitic, would never consider telling other groups of marginalized or minority communities what is and what is not bigotry.

[Celerity]

120. Religio/ethnic/racial reductionism (ie ONLY the in-group can ever say what is and what isn't true in regards to

any stance or statement that the in-group is involved in) is a logical fallacy of large proportion.

In addition, following your logic, you would likely have to fall back onto another fallacy (one true Scotsman) to negate the fact that many Jews would say that none of my examples are anti-semitic.

Also, I myself am part Sephardic Jewish (of Portuguese descent from my mum's side), and thus, according to your positings (unless you are going to employ quantitative genealogical gatekeeping), in possession of inherent agency on the issue at a personal level anyway.

[Nixie]

156. You are exactly right in your observations. For many, it

looks like they are just aligning with their favorite politicians.

[The Magistrate]

121. Hell, Ma'am, I've Said About All That Save No. 4

And even that's not particularly objectionable.

I don't think there's any question where I align in the matter.

[mcar]

136. It's "high dudgeon"

[Celerity]

137. typo sorry, I will sort it

[TheKentuckian]

173. Not one example there of the actual posts

Your encapsulation may not fully convey what was stated and certainly would miss how it was stated.

People seem to be hand waiving that two statements can have the same subject and still very easily have one make it to the station on time and the other completely go off the rails.

Netanyahu is is a vile warmonger and an unrepentant criminal who is better suited and deserving of being under a prison than a head of state but that does not mean that in the course of criticizing even that crooked fuck that one cannot veer off and be antisemitic along the way but you certainly can criticize him quite throughly and never come close.

Some folks are making this unbelievably more difficult than it is and it is very hard to understand how and still assume good faith.

It simply is not hard at all, unless one wants it to be.

[Celerity]

182. Sorry, I will not be lured into breaking DU TOS (targeting posters). As Pete said in the 2020 debates, 'I may not be

a master fisherman, but I know bait when I see it.'

And no, there was nothing I left out context-wise or content-wise that could have been legimately called anti semitism in any of those examples. The posts were all very straightforward and immune to the false claims (and worse) made/done by other posters.

[TheKentuckian]

187. It is breaking the terms to repost your own?

Sounds untrue and absurd but maybe so.

I asked what you posted. Your synopsis while appreciated doesn't tell the whole story.

I can say I was talking about produce and that statement be true but whether it was about pesticide use, the harvesting of apples, the cost of a honeydew, or a "joke" about how black folks love watermelon all would fall under the broad header.

This is especially a concern when the same folks are reporting they don't see any antisemitism at all or pretend that there may be a wee bit but that was only trolls when it is running hot and cold on tap up in here.
That indicates a rather severe blind spot that self filtering cannot overcome.

"It is not the least bit objectionable... because I said so", is not reliable narrative.

I maintain it isn't hard at all to be critical of Israel or any Jewish politician without being antisemitic but plenty seem unable to do so and a goodly number seem utterly unwilling to and instead are doubling down.

It is dangerous and is very plausibly leading to an avalanche bit by bit.
It would not be the first time by a long shot but I say never again. Not if I can help it.

This needs to be confronted and defeated rather than swept under a rug as is being demanded.

The answer is no.

[Celerity]

191. The point of my examples was the false claims of anti semitism made by others against them, so yes, posting

direct links to the actual replies that were incorrectly framed as anti semitism would be targeting the posters who made the false accusational replies to my examples and thus would be a violation of DU TOS.



Bottom line, I point back to my initial post and 100 per cent stand by it.

Anyone who follows these P/I threads to any significant degree knows my claim and my examples ring true, regardless of whether they admit it here or not.

The definitional expansionisn of antisemitism to include basically anything (involving Jewish related subjects of course) a person simply disagrees with or finds inconvenient is thoroughly evident both here and outside the DU ecosphere, and has been for ages. That template is unfortunately, at times, too often used as cudgel to intimidate and stifle absolutely legitimate debate via chilling effects.

[yardwork]

93. I see the opposite.

I see people posting antisemitic things on DU. When it's pointed out, I've seen two types of responses. Many DUers have responded by doing some reflection and reading, and recognizing how they were inadvertently using antisemitic tropes and caricatures. Those posters continue their criticism of Israel, but careful to avoid antisemitism. All good.

The other group of people have doubled down, insisted that they've done nothing wrong, and constantly complain that they're being oppressed. The second group is getting side eye.

[Celerity]

101. the two are not mutually exclusive at all

I have seen both actual antisemitism (often but certainly not exclusively from troll accounts that were handled by MIRT) as well as false charges of anti-semitism that were at times used. IMHO, to try and induce a chilling effect and stifle legitimate debate.

I gave a few examples here:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100218509254#post99

[SocialDemocrat61]

122. Jon Stewart said

Accusations of antisemitism is often used to shut down uncomfortable conversations.

[KS Toronado]

79. Since Bernie Sanders is Jewish I question he's an anti-Semite

I've never seen it, on the other hand Тяцмp's buddy Steven Miller is anti-Semitism.

[PBateman70]

142. Maybe

Southpark reference.......maybe Bernie is from the antisemitic sect of Judaism!

🤣🤣🤣

[GuppyGal]

2. Negotiating with TERRORISTS - including in our own country. FUCKING DISGUSTED thru and thru nt

[iemanja]

123. Now that's a non-sequitur if I ever saw one.

[GuppyGal]

126. The vote was 49-51, with Republicans voting against moving forward with the bill,

[iemanja]

129. Which has NOTHING to do with negotiating with terrorists

That's the kind of comment that makes these debates so ugly.

[GuppyGal]

132. Then I'll keep saying them

[TheKentuckian]

165. There are not 51 Republican Senators to vote on anything.

Sanders elected to give aid and comfort to Putin, the Republicans/Chump, and fucking Hamas.

Is he antisemitic, seems a stretch but not impossible. I will stick with no for now.

Is a he a fool? This vote says that is a distinct possibility.

[GuppyGal]

167. Honestly this was just some hyperbole against the pukes - no commentary on Sanders...I'm sure if he was

the deciding vote he'd vote yes ! Right? ?!?!!

[TheKentuckian]

171. Looks like he was. Otherwise, Harris could break the tie.

[LexVegas]

4. Using the phrase "from the river to the sea" is antisemitic. nt

[TeamProg]

9. So you truly believe that Rep Tlaib is an anti-Semite and that she thinks Israel should not exist? Seriously?

We all know Israel has a right to exist, but Netanuahu's bombing is not helping his country's standing on the world stage.

But like, Trump, it's all about Bibi distracting us from his corruption charges and dividing his constituents.

[Danmel]

11. Actually, I do think Rashida Tlaib does not believe Israel has a right to exist

And I believe she is antisemitic

[TeamProg]

14. Nov 29, 2023 Tlaib statement:

Tlaib Calls for Peaceful Coexistence Between Israelis and Palestinians
Nov 29, 2023
Press

WASHINGTON, D.C. — Today, Representative Rashida Tlaib (MI-12) released the following statement on H. Res. 888:

“Both Israelis and Palestinians have the right to live with democracy, safety, peace, and human dignity. This resolution that ignores the existence of the Palestinian people brings us no closer to peaceful coexistence. It’s important to recognize that Palestinians also have a right to coexist with Israelis in their historic homeland, with equal rights and freedom, rather than living under racial segregation or being subjugated as second-class citizens. This resolution falls short of that.

“Israel does not have a right to carry out illegal occupation and apartheid—which will never lead to a just and lasting peace. Unfortunately, this resolution is a one-sided attempt to rewrite history, contributes to the ongoing erasure of Palestinians by not even acknowledging their existence, and fails to recognize the historical and ongoing Nakba in which countless Palestinians have been and are actively being killed, displaced, and driven from their homes.”

###

Doesn't sound anti-semitic to me.

[Marcus IM]

24. Doesn't matter.

Some know it when they see it. Even if it isn't.

I'm sure you've seen many vids by The Good Liars and Michael Shure with tRumpsters saying that they know that he is their savior, because they know it when they see it. You can't get thru to them. Their mind is made up and cemented in place.

[OilemFirchen]

29. Goysplaining done badly.

Feh.

[Hekate]

52. Great word to add to my vocabulary...

And so accurate.

[Cha]

66. Rec Exactly.. Jewish People love to be

told what isn't "Anti-Semitism"
Senator Fetterman knows it when he sees it..

Link to tweet

[Marcus IM]

82. That is exactly what you are doing to me.

Except you are not explaining anything about your whataboutism comments to me.

Perhaps you missed that I am a Cuban born Jewish Cuban-American.

Or, maybe you're feeling something undefinably different?

[Cha]

90. Stay on Topic.. Sen Fetterman Knows Anti-Semitism When hs sees it.

Link to tweet

[Marcus IM]

95. I am responding to you. Is your post on topic?

You said --> "Jewish People love to be told what isn't "Anti-Semitism" "

Which is your on topic comment.

I responded "That is exactly what you are doing to me."

Your response - "stay on topic".

I guess you are feeling something undefinable, again.

[LetMyPeopleVote]

148. Cha's post is on topic and is correct

I am a Jewish Democrat who has been active with ADL and my temple (including 11 years on the board). I also am appalled at people telling me that something is not antisemitic. There are a large number of very offensive statements being made by persons who want to pretend that these statements are not offensive

[TeamProg]

106. Those protesters are idiots. This thread is about the commenters here who get labeled as "anti-semetic"

simply for criticizing Netanyahu's bombing, the tens of thousands of deaths, the breaking of international law, the re-bombing after some hostages were released.

[AZSkiffyGeek]

70. I used "Gentile-splaining" the other day

I was concerned goy would get flagged.
Nonetheless, I still got accused of "being able to spot non-Jews"
(I'm not Jewish).

[Marcus IM]

73. Except of one very big fact.

I am a Cuban born Jewish Cuban-American.

I've been victimized by anti Semitic hate speech on both side of the Florida straits.

English is my second language.

Now I'm goysplaining.

Talk about conjuring and fantasizing.

Out of control, some here are.

Happy Hanukkah


Also, I abhor Hamas and Hamas terrorism. Is that "Gentile-splaining" too?

[AZSkiffyGeek]

74. I don't believe I was addressing you

Or questioning your Jewish heritage. Perhaps you want to direct these comments to someone else?

[Marcus IM]

81. Apologies. I though you were part of the pile-on regarding my supposed "goysplaining".

Kinds felt like it, but, I'll defer to your comment.

[AZSkiffyGeek]

87. Fair enough

I was referring to the phenomena, not a specific instance. I like "splaining" as a term, but I do agree about using it judiciously.

[OilemFirchen]

77. I'm actually surprised it's still there.

OTOH, I apparently wear a cloak of invisibility, as my posts rarely get attention. And, of course, the day is young.

[OilemFirchen]

94. Good for you.

Happy Chanukah as well.

[stopdiggin]

26. then DON'T use a slogan that clearly refers to the elimination .... -(nt)-

[Danmel]

27. You might have noticed there is no mention of Israel as a Jewish state

Which is fundamental to its existence.
There are Islamic Republics and nations that have Christianity as their official religion.
Why does the only Jewish state have to cede its identity?

[Oneironaut]

65. Religious states are just governments who use their variety of sky fairy to control the populace.

They’re also completely ridiculous and out of place in 2023.

[TheKentuckian]

150. Atheist Jews are still Jews. Israel is not a theocracy

You can look around their neighborhood for some though.

They won't be tough to find.

[Oneironaut]

155. I did not say it was.

I was replying on the subject of Jews deserving their own religious state. My response is that no one deserves their own religious state.

[TheKentuckian]

168. Being Jewish is not just a religion.

Secular and atheist Jews went to the same chemical showers as the most observant and have faced the same pogroms down the millennia.

There are a number of Muslim nations that are actual theocracies that can be taken down if that is your prime directive.

[The Magistrate]

46. It's The Missing Third Paragraph Is The Problem

There ought to be one on something like the following line:

The people of Israel have been assailed by a monstrous atrocity, one harkening back to the pogroms and extermination campaigns which drove many Jews to establish the state of Israel for their refuge and protection. For this there can be no excuse, but only condemnation, and I call on the people of Palestine to join me in unequivocal condemnation of the authors of this atrocity, and to, so far as they are able, assist in bringing them to justice.

[Mosby]

49. Her statement shows clear evidence of bias.

The occupation isn't illegal, and Israel isn't engaged in Aparthied. She's not dumb, so the only reason she would frame the situation like she does is in-group bias.

[The Magistrate]

56. Let's Be Clear, Sir

A Palestinian Arab resident near, say, Hebron, has every right to feel he or she lives under a regime of enforced inequality. Their property is not secure, they have no recourse to law in conflict with members of an ethnically distinct over-class. It might not be written quite that way, but that's what it amounts to. Their situation is actually not much different from that of a Jew under Ottoman rule prior to the Mandate, or of Negro residents of Mississippi in the Jim Crow days.

[Mosby]

78. Hebron is not a very good example

Because you and I both know what would happen to the Jews there if the IDF left. You are also aware how long Jews have been living in and around Hebron. In a world without racism and bigotry, Jews and Muslims could live in peace together, but that's never going to happen, over time people are becoming more bigoted and racist, not less, and I'm not just talking about the ME.

I don't dispute the description in your post about how the daily lives of Palestinians are affected by the occupation, but looking at the flip side for Israelis, Jews and non Jews both have had to deal with over a hundred years of terrorism coming from the Palestinian community.

So even though I don't communicate this much here, I very much sympathize with both sides of this conflict, but I do so with the understanding that the vast majority of the blame lies with the Palestinian leadership.

[The Magistrate]

109. I Appreciate Your Reply, Sir

I expect we are in agreement over how the thing came to its present pass, but how we got to it isn't necessary to describing how things actually stand.

[edhopper]

118. I am curious

does she mean Palestinians should have full rights and autonomy in Gaza and the West Bank. Free from Israeli encroachment?
Or does she mean Palestinians should all be able to live within what is now Israel, effectively taking it from the Jewish people there and ending Israel as a nation?

Which one is it?

[lapucelle]

133. Rep. Tlaib is against a two state solution.

A single state solution would end Israel as a nation.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/05/13/politics/rashida-tlaib-holocaust-comments/index.html

https://www.timesofisrael.com/j-street-drops-endorsement-of-michigan-candidate-for-backing-one-state-solution/

[edhopper]

143. So she wants 5he same ends

as Hamas? Nice.

[CincyDem]

135. Echos of "All Lives Matter".

[LexVegas]

15. Its an antisemitic phrase. Are people who use bigoted slurs and phrases bigots? nt

[markpkessinger]

169. Is it possible that some of the college students who have been participating in demonstrations in support . . .

. . . of Palestinians, and who have chanted the phrase while participating in those same demonstrations, might not be fully aware of the complete, troubled history of that phrase, and picked it up from the crowd with which they were demonstrating? At least in those cases, I don't think one can assume they are necessarily anti-Semitic. Historically and geopolitically ignorant, yes, but not necessarily anti-Semitic. And the phrase historical meaning of the phrase isn't self-evident unless one is aware of its history.

[TheKentuckian]

174. Just because in their heart of hearts such may not be the intent

doesn't change that it is indeed antisemitic.

Intent mitigates but doesn't erase and not being called on it for being wrong leaves little reason to ever do any better or even encourages doubling down on digging the same hole.

In the end, it all spends the same.

[markpkessinger]

198. There are even many Jews who disagree that every use of the phrase is necessarily anti-Semitic . . .

Rabbi Jay MIchaelson is among them:

https://www.thedailybeast.com/elise-stefaniks-calculated-demagoguery-on-antisemitism-and-free-speech?ref=scroll

[lapucelle]

47. Rep. Tlaib wants a one state solution.

Israel would cease to exist.

https://www.haaretz.com/jewish/2018-08-17/ty-article/.premium/j-street-withdraws-support-for-rashida-tlaib/0000017f-f474-d47e-a37f-fd7cb9040000

[madaboutharry]

91. Rep, Talib advocates for a ONE STATE SOLUTION, which means the eradication of Israel as a nation.

And yes, I do think she has an intense dislike of Jews.

[LeftInTX]

117. There are two types of one state solutions.

One is Palestinian take over (violent)
Allow Palestinian refugees right of return and citizenship (Palestinians would be a majority and Israel would no longer be a Jewish state)

I can see J-Street opposing both. Both eradicate Israel, however one is violent and the other is a Lebanonization. Lebanon was created as a Christian-majority state, but it is now a Muslim majority state due to changes in demographics.

[TheKentuckian]

151. By hook or by crook.

Opposition would extend beyond J street.

[lapucelle]

138. Rep. Tlaib is calling for a one state solution.

Israel would no longer exist.

J Street drops endorsement of Michigan candidate for backing one-state solution

Liberal group cites ‘significant divergence in perspectives’ with Rashida Tlaib, Democrat set to be first Palestinian in Congress; she also wants to slash military aid to Israel

https://www.timesofisrael.com/j-street-drops-endorsement-of-michigan-candidate-for-backing-one-state-solution/

-------------------------------------------------------

Rashida Tlaib on Democratic Socialism and Why She Supports the Palestinian Right of Return

The newly elected Democratic nominee for Congress talks about how she plans to help working-class Detroit and why she supports a one-state solution for Israel-Palestine.

https://inthesetimes.com/article/rashida-tlaib-democratic-socialism-palestine-israel-michigan

-------------------------------------------------------

Rashida Tlaib stands by Israel and Holocaust comments amid criticism

“There’s kind of a calming feeling I always tell folks when I think of the Holocaust, and the tragedy of the Holocaust, and the fact that it was my ancestors, Palestinians, who lost their land and some lost their lives, their livelihood, their human dignity, their existence in many ways, have been wiped out, and some people’s passports,” Tlaib said.

She continued, “I mean, just all of it was in the name of trying to create a safe haven for Jews, post-the Holocaust, post-the tragedy and the horrific persecution of Jews across the world at that time, and I love the fact that it was my ancestors that provided that, right, in many ways. But they did it in a way that took their human dignity away, right, and it was forced on them. And so when I think about a one-state, I think about the fact that, why couldn’t we do it in a better way?”

When asked whether advocating for a one-state solution could be seen as reckless, Tlaib replied, “No, I’m coming from a place of love, for equality and justice, I truly am.”

https://www.cnn.com/2019/05/13/politics/rashida-tlaib-holocaust-comments/index.html

[JustAnotherGen]

146. I do

I think she hates Jewish people.

[TheKentuckian]

149. I think she does not believe in the Israel's right to exist

Further, if she had the power to do so she would make it just so in this moment.

I generally consider this antisemitic minus a small percentage of hyper observant types who believe that the time is not yet ripe for Israel to be or that they are ordained to be in diaspora and those various schools.

I have no opinion on her personal predilections on an individual basis nor do I much care since my opinion can only go down from there.

This may be considered less than reasonable by some but I'd advise they check their heads and spirits really closely.

[Lonestarblue]

16. So you're saying that Jews are antisemitic.

“ The right of the Jewish people to the land of Israel is eternal and indisputable… therefore, Judea and Samaria will not be handed to any foreign administration; between the Sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty. —Likud Party Platform, 1977”

https://www.thenation.com/article/world/its-time-to-confront-israels-version-of-from-the-river-to-the-sea/

[The Magistrate]

51. It Has Long Been Clear Likud Advocates Unwholesome Ends

Submergence as 2nd class citizens for Arabs at best, ethnic cleansing as the outcome most desired, and little squeamishness in using means to achieve it which likely would violate the conventions defining genocide.

[madaboutharry]

96. Not going to defend Likud, the sooner they are out of power the better.

I am not accusing Sanders of being antisemitic. I wouldn't say that.
However, Jews can absolutely be antisemitic. Some of the worst antisemites have been Jews. Jewish history is ripe with them.

[markpkessinger]

166. I suspect, particularly with some of the campus demonstrations . . .

. . . that many of the students who participated are not fully aware of the troubled history of that phrase, and likely picked it up from the crowd. While that certainly reflects a level of ignorance, I don't think it necessarily makes those students anti-Semitic.

[Sympthsical]

6. Do you see how Sanders criticized Netanyahu and the government?

Did you see any other rhetoric or attacks against Israel or Jews in general?

That's the difference.

And I ever love it when people pop up with, "It's the pointing out of the racism that's the real problem here - not the racism. Let's spare a thought for the real victims here, the people perpetuating racist tropes and sentiments."

Just, LOL. Did liberalism have an expiration date of October 7th and no one told me?

[TeamProg]

10. I have NOT SEEN ONE post criticizing anyone's choice of religion. EVER. Find one and paste it here.

Good luck.

[Sympthsical]

36. You know I can't do that

It's against the rules.

But are you saying you have not seen any antisemitism? None? At all?

Welp. I'd argue that's seeing the world through a prism with a lot of wavelengths blocked out. Like looking through a spectrograph of a supernova of racism.

That is a choice.

[Big Blue Marble]

43. Expressing concern for the plight of the Gazans

is all it takes to be told you are anti-semetic. I know; it happened to me yesterday.

[Sympthsical]

50. But that is not what the poster is claiming

They're claiming they haven't seen any antisemitism at all.

Which is interesting. I see it daily, and I am not discussing criticism of Israeli policy or concern over civilians. I'm talking hard antisemitism like supporting and obfuscating genocidal slogans, saying Jewish deli owners are valid targets, and in one stellar incident by someone who is still here and contributing to threads on these topics, that shooting at a Jewish school in Canada was chickens coming home to roost.

It's weird how I see this stuff - regularly - but people either mysteriously never notice or breezily pretend it never happens.

A few times can be happenstance, but patterns tend to make themselves very clear over time.

[Big Blue Marble]

54. I totally agree that your examples are anti-semitic and need to be called out.

We do have to ask are these "real" DU's or are they trolls here to divide us? I would rather
believe they are the second as these statements are so contrary to our shared values.

[Sympthsical]

61. It's coming from regulars no minor amount

Which is kind of crazy. I don't think anyone was laying in wait for their moment to get their antisemitism on. It was always there and they perhaps see an opportunity in recent events that there is public support enough for these sentiments to begin saying them out loud.

Which is, I hope, a miscalculation on their part. I certainly aim to let people know anti-bigotry isn't an empty slogan to me. I mean that shit. And I mean it applies to everyone. One of the weirder characteristics in this is how some people with, let's say, a reputation for being fiercely protective of their own demographic groups against bigotry are some of the most happy partakers in the recent bullshit.

It's the most basic social rule there is. Put out to others the same respect and dignity you would have for yourself. We're supposed to be the side of anti-bigotry, and this simple test is getting failed all over the place with anti-Jewish sentiments.

I don't get it. As a liberal, as a Democrat, I'm watching this and thinking, "What the fuck, guys?"

[Mossfern]

100. Yes

I react to this in my gut as a betrayal.

[edisdead]

195. this entire thread is meant to divide

That’s exactly what is going on here.

[TheKentuckian]

177. While stranger things have happened

I find it hard to believe something like...

"I'm really worried about the humanitarian conditions in Gaza. People are not getting enough food. The sanitation situation is frightening. The poor people are living and too often dying on the run with war going on all around them everywhere they try to turn!".

"ANTI-SEMITE!!!"

went down precisely so.

Again, not impossible but I feel it is unlikely and the full context and flavor has perhaps been filtered through lenses of focus and intent then boiled down.

"I was talking about ______"

Okay. What did you say exactly, though?

[sarisataka]

8. Perhaps the problem is not too many accusations of antisemitism

But that there are so many antisemites to accuse.

FWIW I see nothing antisemitic in Sanders criticism of the Israeli government. He is not using any antisemitic tropes in his criticism.

[TeamProg]

12. "But that there are so many antisemites to accuse. " Really? By all means, copy and paste to

show us.

I call that BS.

btw, I've got some ocean-front land in AZ to sell you.

[sarisataka]

17. Ok

White House and Pennsylvania governor condemn ‘antisemitic’ rally in front of Israeli-style restaurant in Philadelphia

7 Ways Some Anti-Israel Protests Have Spread Antisemitism

Link to tweet

?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1729652154989007125%7Ctwgr%5Ea4e0fca9ccf1c6628fbb523278d3a916f56e7b9b%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fd-11028764322881173071.ampproject.net%2F2311212202000%2Fframe.html

Would you like more?

[TeamProg]

21. You know darn well that that this conversation is about posts HERE, at DU. Find those and paste them here.

[sarisataka]

25. Benie Sanders is not a poster here

That I am aware of.

To use that as an example purity test but then limit accusations to DUers seems disingenuous.

Try posting some examples of people on DU unjustly accusing fellow DU members of antisemitism.

[Marcus IM]

30. Maybe poster is implying that the pic was of a DUer?

Or it's a straw man.

[sarisataka]

39. Is Bernie Sanders a member of DU?

If so, please tell me, I'd like to say hi. If no, then the person in the picture has as much to do with DU as Sanders.

A lesson for one who does not want to be accused of antisemitism is to be more like Sanders than any of those I referenced.

[Hekate]

33. You are spoiling for a fight. You "know darn well" that what you are demanding is a violation of the TOS.

Eventually your straw man will burst into flames.

[AZSkiffyGeek]

68. That particular picture was defended by a now PPR'd member as not antisemitic...

Because it wasn't that Gazans were Nazis, but that they were calling Jews Nazis.
Strange, convoluted logic, but it was defended here.

[hlthe2b]

23. We have lost a lot of long term DUers over this... I don't know what the answer is but

Last edited Thu Dec 7, 2023, 02:34 PM - Edit history (1)

after a certain member (no longer seemingly posting) -- abetted/reinforced by many others-- decided to roam DU and its forums to accuse anyone who posted ANYTHING (including content not even remotely related to IP--even pet posts!! ) as being so because they did not start their OP with a denunciation of HAMAS, I started seeing more and more DUers taking a break from DU. Whether or not it is permanent or not remains to be seen. Ironically this was not allowed in the IP forum-- which has been fairly and adeptly moderated for years by long-term member Lithos (thank you for your efforts), but occurred seemingly unfettered elsewhere. Emotions drive factionalism--even when we should all know better.

[TwilightZone]

42. There's nothing forcing anyone to respond to posts like that.

If the poster was that obvious about it, there's a simple solution. Don't engage. Put them on ignore. Problem solved.

If people are leaving DU because of one poster, particularly long-term members, they should really know better by now. Posters like the one you describe are a fixture here, albeit a rather small minority, and there are tools available to deal with them that require nearly zero effort.

[hlthe2b]

45. I believe you know it is not that simple nor hardly limited as you suggest. But, I don't wish to argue.

Have a nice day.

[Cha]

75. Rec TY.. Yeah, Not that complicated.

Just me maybe but I wouldn't leave DU b/c of that.. I do use the features avaiable if needed. They Work Great. Especially that Trash Can.

[hlthe2b]

89. Cha...

I know you saw many of those threads to which I am referring. But, no, of course, I am NOT suggesting you were part of the group attacks egged on by the individuals I mentioned. Still, we "talked" about them via DU mail in those days/weeks after 10/07.

I know this is an emotional time-- reminiscent in some ways of the post-911 days. I get this. Yet, not everyone is the enemy, not every comment is anything but innocuous. Yet it certainly feels as though some DUers think otherwise--jumping to conclusions rather than asking for (and accepting) an appropriate clarification of meaning and comments. Sadly it comes at the very time we should be coming together to support one another. DU used to be like that...

[yardwork]

102. Cha is one of the kindest, most empathetic DUers

Any suggestion that Cha is "jumping to conclusions" and not being supportive of DU as a community is false.

Cha, like many of us, is appalled by real instances of antisemitism aimed at Jewish people, both Jewish posters on DU and in the world.

She doesn't deserve to be singled out in this way.

It's been explained over and over here how easy it is to criticize Israel and its government and policies without being antisemitic.

[hlthe2b]

105. You are way off base. That is not what i am saying at all. You can ask Cha about our interactions.

But, your jumping to conclusions illustrates my point exactly. Your interjecting your very wrong interpretation is exactly what I am referring to. I don't deserve it. Cha and I have long had good interactions based on mutual respect and enjoyment of each other's typical posts, so just stop it. Or put me on ignore as this is not the first time you have attacked me without reason or justification.

[LetMyPeopleVote]

108. Cha is one of my favorite posters and this post is simply wrong

I would urge you to delete this post. Attacking Cha is not appropriate

[hlthe2b]

116. You are way off base. That is not what i am saying at all. You can ask Cha about our interactions.

She has been a favorite of mine as well.

But, your jumping to conclusions illustrates my point exactly. Your interjecting your very wrong interpretation is exactly what I am referring to. Cha and I have long had good interactions based on mutual respect and enjoyment of each other's typical posts, so your misinterpretation is both invalid and only underscores the point I have been making about this period. That includes the tendency for some to jump to conclusions about the words of others sans any benefit-of-the doubt--including interjecting without understanding (or trying to).

[Cha]

62. Sen Fetterman Calls it "Anti-Semitism" ...

Link to tweet

[TexasDem69]

203. Ive been disgusted by some of the stuff I've seen

Either explicitly supporting Hamas or excusing its actions.

[Srkdqltr]

13. I think you can be anti Netanyahu and anti Hamas without being anti Jewish or Muslim

The same way you can be anti gun without being anti men.

[TeamProg]

22. Exactly. But there seems to be no room for that very obvious concept. nt

[stopdiggin]

44. Nope. Criticisms of Netanyahu (specifically) have almost

never been called out on this site. (I don't think I've ever seen it) Same with the settlements and settlers. And (seems to me) that goes some way in undercutting the basic premise ...

[AZSkiffyGeek]

64. I can say that I alerted a post calling Netanyahu a rat and Likud vermin

But those are also specific antisemitic tropes, and I alerted not because I support Bibi or Likud, but because the language was straight out of the Protocols.

[stopdiggin]

71. yep. hate speech. and hardly an example of the strawman being foisted ... -(nt)-

[yardwork]

88. I disagree. I criticize Netanyahu a lot and nobody ever calls that antisemitism.

This has been explained here over and over again. It's not difficult to criticize Israeli policies and government without being antisemitic.

Don't call Jewish people rats, for example. Don't insist that Jewish shopkeepers in America are committing genocide just because they're Jewish. Don't assume that all Jews support Israel's policies.

Look up examples of antisemitic speech and don't use them. Simple.

[mcar]

139. See? It's really not that hard

One can condemn the brutal and horrific rape of Israeli women without equivocating with "...but Israel."

I am completely anti-Netanyahu. But people who harass American Jewish college students, post pro-Hamas graffiti on synagogues, or protest a deli are not being anti-Netanyahu. They are being anti-semites.

[Srkdqltr]

144. Yes exactly. And who is the head of Hamas? The people here or in other countries are not at fault. Like i said

[Prairie Gates]

28. This should go well

[TeamProg]

159. Prairie Gate

?v=1660780467

Beautifully!

[Torchlight]

32. When I tripped over my shoes this morning, it was one clumsy act.

If I did that consistently though, I would be forced to consider myself overall, a clumsy person.

[stopdiggin]

38. I've seen virulent antisemitism (in protests, slogans, speeches, ect.) repeatedly

defended here on DU. Is the defense of antisemitic thought and expression - antisemitic?

[JohnSJ]

92. Just yesterday some were twisting themselves into pretzels defending the

inability of some university presidents from prestigious universities failing to say that calling for genocide against Jews on their campuses was bullying and harassment.

The answer was that calling for genocide against any group on campus against another group on campus is bullying and harassment.

That they couldn’t even say that, and some here couldn’t grasp that in that thread speaks volumes.

[oldsoftie]

179. ALL of those Presidents should step down. That was ridiculous.

And even with someone like Stefanik behind the questioning.
Wonder what their responses would've been had the question been about advocating for the genocide of asians, hispanics or blacks? Because if their answers hadn't been the same; why not?

[cornball 24]

41. Thank you for pointing out that which is and has been clearly discernible to me

recently. Quite honestly, I do not recall seeing such incendiary rhetoric here on DU.

[fishwax]

53. even ONE accusation of anti-semitism is too many?

[treestar]

58. It is an easy go to for one side to use

Along with claiming "support of Hamas" - it's just easy. Being victim of anti-semitism puts one in the right automatically, so there's a jump to victim status right away. Palestinians are not people (A land without a people) and they are collectively responsible for anyone done by one of them. Not agreeing with that is supporting Hamas and is also anti-semitic. A very easy way to win an argument.

[Chakaconcarne]

59. Agreed....and makes we wonder whether the accusations are to divide us here on DU?

[angrychair]

60. I feel the same way

Valid criticism of or having a different opinion than the current government of Israel is NOT antisemitic.
It demeans and dilutes the meaning of actual antisemitism and fosters an environment in which actual antisemitism might be ignored or dismissed as minor or insignificant.

[The Magistrate]

69. What Makes The Thing Tricky, Sir

Is the present climate. These things are not said in a vacuum, in times of settled peace.

No one has any doubt Hamas carried out an atrocious spree of sadistic murder, or that Israel is responding to this with the full weight of its armed forces.

Anyone who takes this for a purely military contest, in which purely military concerns are all that needs to be considered, ought to look a bit more closely and widely.

In this politico-military contest, Hamas has three chief weapons.

First, concealment among the general populace of non-combatants, such that these must be at risk from military action against its members. It is an unequivocal violation, though I am inclined to some understanding of it, and might excuse it in a cause I deemed just. Hamas would be unable to operate at all, unable to exist in Gaza, without doing this: there's just no other place to hide, and hide they must to keep on.

Second, a willingness to see hectacombs of Palestinian Arabs slaughtered as 'martyrs' in consequence of their operational necessity, when they provoke their stronger foe to action against them.

Third, the reliable response of well-meaning, good-hearted persons to the spectacle of slaughter their operations invariably occasion, which focuses on demands Israel cease, or greatly moderate its military campaigns. That such people often do seem to seriously imagine it is possible negotiations with Hamas might produce some compromise between it and Israel acceptable to both parties is simply a cherry on top.

It is, unfortunately, indisputable that much well-meaning left/progressive speech and sloganeering on the subject does align with the propaganda lines Hamas wishes to see dominate the political portions of the struggle they are engaged in. It is one thing to do this in awareness of what one does, it is quite another to deny one is doing this at all, and take great umbrage at its being pointed out. I am well aware that in this I am ranged alongside Likud among others, and do not like the company, but if, as a man of the left, I must take a side in this, it will be with a largely secular and nationalist body, albeit one aspiring to ethnic cleansing, and not with a fundamentalist, theocratic body aspiring to genocide.


"Persons who see the world in blacks and whites are helpless confronted with a need to choose between jet and onyx greys."

[kimbutgar]

72. I was talking to a devout Jewish woman yesterday who is totally against the war and hates Netanyahu with a passion

And thinks he needs to go. She said he is the reason there is so much anti semitsim because of his policies that gives Israel and Jews a bad name.

[riversedge]

80. I was appauled when Netanyahu was re-elected.

[LeftInTX]

115. Yes, he's giving Israel a bad name.

As a Christian, I was always very supportive of Israel until Netanyahu started being paraded by the GOP.

(I gotta admit, I was pretty naive about Israeli-Palestinian politics until then. I just thought of them as the "good guys".
However, my SIL who is Jewish said, "My niece is crazy for moving to Israel".)

[kimbutgar]

119. If you have a chance John Oliver did a great segment explaining the Israel/ Palestine/Hamas situation that

Really helped me make an informed opinion.

?si=avOmK2gx7tJIibMF

[iemanja]

124. Well, anti-semitism obviously predates the founding of Israel.

[stopdiggin]

130. and way, WAY predates Netanyahu

(as misguided and objectionable as many of us might find the current political regime .. )
Unfortunately the virulent hatred of both the Jews and Israel state was quite evident, and acted upon - even when the Israeli state was (attempting) to be much more conciliatory.

[TheKentuckian]

188. How did she explain the thousands of years

of antisemitism that predates Bibi being so much as a sparkle in his parent's eyes?

[elleng]

83. SILLINESS here and all over.

Opposing Israel's policies is/are political statements, and not understanding the difference between that and Anti-Semitism, that is, being against Semitic people, is utter foolishness.

[hlthe2b]

145. Yup... You are so right.

[onenote]

152. And if one expresses their opposition to Israel's policies by vandalizing

Jewish owned businesses, or sending bomb threats to Jewish places of worship (as happened to my synagogue) do you concede that is anti-Semitism or does rationalizing such acts as political statements cleanse them of being anti-semitism?

[elleng]

160. 'Vandalizing Jewish owned businesses, or sending bomb threats'

are criminal acts, and should be treated as such.

[onenote]

161. Yes they are. And they also are acts of antisemitism

and should be called out as such

[egduj]

162. "Anti-Semitism, that is, being against Semitic people"

You know perfectly well that is not the definition of antisemitsm, and to openly state it (or write it) calls into question one's motives.

[yardwork]

164. Utter foolishness, huh?

[DBoon]

86. Is saying the Balfour Declaration of 1917 was very wrong and led to decades of violence

anti-semitic?

[TheKentuckian]

189. A national home for Jewish people is wrong.

Yep, I'm voting that to be the case pending further elaboration.

Why are these one people forbidden a safe harbor anywhere on the globe where they are not subject to pogroms, being put on the run, and killed in vast numbers as soon as the wrong tide comes in?

They have as much of a claim as any group, if not more to that little plot of land and were expelled from the surrounding Arab nations as well with no right of return and near certain death to this day even if they did.

[Delmette2.0]

97. When will people learn to seperate individual citizens from

their government's actions?

If i disagree with any government it does not mean I dislike or hate the (individual) people/ citizens.

This is the core problem with any government to closely tied to any religion.

Did the Inquisition or Salem witch trials teach us anything at all?

[DENVERPOPS]

98. That entire area has been a quagmire forever

I am not a Bernie Lover, but it seems he was just making a reasonable statement of his thinking...........I certainly don't think that Israel should just lie down and take whatever the Hamas has to hand out.................that having been said, I have loathed Netanyahu for the last 10-15 years............

The Hague, War Crimes Commissions, Geneva Convention, United Nations??????????????? That all went out the window..........in 2001, starting with Cheney, Rumsfeld and the Military Industrial Complex, with many of our Beloved Nation following. You can start with their outright condoning TORTURE of Soldiers and civilians.........

My mind went to a song 70? years ago that many of us heard repeatedly on radio, until the REPUBLICAN OWNED RIGHT WING RADIO STATIONS BANNE IT......

At the Run-up to the Iraq war, Cheney, Rumsfeld, etc got Sinclair and other RW radio stations across America to ban THE TOP 100 WAR SONGS FROM THE 60'S.....This song was #1 on the list. The war songs of the 60's, influencing our younger generation was something they did not want to deal with again..........

Just Saying

[LetMyPeopleVote]

110. I was a Clinton delegate to the 2016 national convention

I remember being yelled at and told that I was a bad Jew by a Bernie supporter wearing a Bernie shirt and a large cross at the Jewish caucus. This is the type of experience one does not forget

[Cha]

113. I'm so sorry that happened to you,

LMPV.

[LeftInTX]

114. That sucks

[TeamProg]

134. O M G! Just more proof that there are A-holes in every cross-section of society. Priests, lawyers, teachers, artists,

Drs., retailers, wholesalers, salesmen, baristas, chefs, athletes, truck drivers, presidents, delegates nad many more.

[mcar]

140. I recall during that time

being told I was anti-semitic because I didn't support a Bernie write-in candidacy in the GE.

[Nixie]

157. Yes, I think this gets to the bottom of it, at least

for some here. Sorry this happened to you.

[LetMyPeopleVote]

163. This was also the convention where there was planned booing stunts of John Lewis and others

The Clinton team had a whipping infrastructure. My whip warned me 15 to 30 minutes in advance of planned booing stunts on John Lewis, Elijah Cummings and even Stacy Abrams. Sanders refused to stop these stunts sides-items pleas from the DNC.

My youngest child was with me as a guest. A group of sanders delegates cornered her to get me to change my vote and when she refused they called the c—-t word.

This was an once in a life time trip and these stunts ruined it

[marble falls]

176. It makes me think about the old saw about sausages: "People who love sausages should never see them made."

[Nixie]

184. There is no excuse for this happening and what did

anyone really get from it but a Republican President. That is a trip of a lifetime like you said and to be bullied and harassed while you're supposed to be bonding with other democrats is nothing but shameful . It would ruin it for me, and so sorry this happened to you, and especially with your child there who was harassed.

Who in their right mind could ever boo John Lewis or Elijah Cummings. Such disgusting behavior.

[Hekate]

194. I remember you sharing that harrowing experience with us

I remember other stunts on the campaign trail by half-assed Bernie Bros.

[BannonsLiver]

125. And my list grows longer

[TeamProg]

127. Your ignore list?

[BannonsLiver]

128. Lol

[DemocraticPatriot]

131. Oh YES! BERNIE is DEFINITELY an 'anti-semite'!!!!

What? He's Jewish ??


LOL Good thing for him that he is..... right ?

[Celerity]

183. There were multiple threads (one in particular was a shitshow) where many anti Sanders/ anti progressive

(including now long-banned accounts) posters tied themselves into pretzels trying to deny a clearly anti semitic image that was used against Sanders back 4 and a half years ago was anti semitic. Some of those denialists are amongst the more expansionist in their current use of the term. Many, IMHO, were just utilising situational ethics to have a pop at Sanders. Some of them even had a go at the ADL for saying the Sanders image was anti semitic.

At the time I was (as a very active Buttigieg supporter) none too happy with many of the (mostly non DU) Sanders supporters/campaign members/twitter ops and other parts of the Sanderite penumbra who were pushing lies, false frames, and disinfo falsely smearing Pete, but I did not allow my dislike for those actions to cloud my judgment over what was clearly an anti semitic meme smearing Sanders.

[Patton French]

175. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck

Then it just may be a duck.

[marble falls]

178. Or Rich Little.

[claudette]

180. I'm with

Sen. Sanders 200%!! The number of dead Palestinians has risen to over 17,000 as of a report this morning on MSNBC. The American spokesperson for Doctors Without Borders was on pleading that the U.S. to do something. Instead the US voted against a ceasefire (on both sides) at the UN. So disappointing.

[TheKentuckian]

190. Adding (both sides) does not cause Hamas to abide by a cease fire

Hell, they just broke one.

What are you claiming is different? Have they released the hostages? Surrendered?
How about just ceasing their fire?

Why is your only response to Hamas breaking the peace to holler about Israel and to demand a ceasefire that you know good and well will never be adhered to?

Seems wholly irrational and dishonest brokering.

Not just biased but wholly dishonest. Can you even admit the ceasefire was broken by Hamas?

[AkFemDem]

201. Of course Tlaib is an antisemite

She has used antisemitic words and tropes.

Bernie Sanders has not. Why are you conflating the two?

I have not seen any evidence AOC has either?