Red Cross reprimanded hostage families: 'Think about the Palestinians'

[Beastly Boy]

Roni and Simona, the parents of Doron Steinbrecher who was kidnapped by Hamas terrorists from Kfar Azza on October 7, were invited to a meeting with the Red Cross earlier this week.

Doron needs a medication she takes daily and her parents thought that the Red Cross was finally willing to transfer the medication to her, but instead they were sat down and reprimanded by representatives of the Red Cross.

"Think about the Palestinian side," the representatives of the Red Cross told Simona, according to KAN. "It's hard for the Palestinians, they're being bombed."

--snip--

About three weeks after the attack, 1,200 lawyers across the world signed a letter written by the Israeli human rights group Shurat HaDin, condemning the Red Cross for not doing enough to help the hostages. The attorneys accused the organization of repeating the mistakes of indifference and inaction that it admitted to having made during the Holocaust.

https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/article-777223

This is the International frigging Red Cross. The only organization designated by name in international humanitarian laws to assist hostages, faulting the hostage families for failing to live up to its responsibilities.

[Scrivener7]

1. Is it the Red Cross, or is it an ignorant person who works for the Red Cross?

[Beastly Boy]

3. It is the Red Cross.

Why did the Red Cross hire an ignorant person to represent Red Cross to hostage families?

[Scrivener7]

6. Do the hiring policies of your workplace perfectly weed out bigots? If they do not, does that mean that the whole

organization, and by extension you yourself, are bigots?

[Beastly Boy]

34. After the fact which reflects negatively on the company, absolutely and immediately.

And if they would not, there would be no extension to me personally. I would not be complicit in tolerating bigotry and would find ways, one way or the other, to separate myself from the bigotry, whatever its source may be.

[Scrivener7]

52. This article has no information whatsoever on the Red Cross's actions "after the fact."

[Beastly Boy]

61. There is no indication that there was any public reaction whatsoever

that would even hint to the disapproval by the Red Cross of the public statement made by the Red Cross employee "earlier this week".

So, to continue your thought, there is no indication of any sort that the Red Cross took any action or that it intends to do so in the immediate future.

[Scrivener7]

75. There is no indication whatsoever in the article that the Red Cross is even aware the employee said that.

Much less that the statement reflects the position of the Red Cross organization, which suggestion, by the way, is obviously absurd.

[Beastly Boy]

107. So much the worse for Red Cross.

Learning about their employees from media reports is no way to field personnel.

[Cha]

106. And, that says a lot, imv.. I don't care if anyone is

trying to discredit it.

There's No Retraction.

Families of Israelis being held hostage by Hamas were reprimanded by representatives of the Red Cross in a meeting earlier this week, with the Red Cross telling one family they need to "think about the Palestinian side," KAN reported on Thursday night.

The Red Cross might try talking to HAMAS about Thinking about the Palestinians. They started this War and Broke the ceasefire.

[atreides1]

7. Well

Why does any business or group hire ignorant people?

Because they get through the initial hiring process and fool HR, that's why!

[Beastly Boy]

35. I would then suggest that their hiring process is somewhat flawed, no?

[jimfields33]

46. No donation from me for awhile and they were a favorite of mine.

[Scrivener7]

50. On the basis of an article this thin on information? You wouldn't want more information about the Red Cross's actual

position or their response before you made that decision?

[Hekate]

86. Plural. Representatives is repeated more than once. Plural, not just "one ignorant person"

[Think. Again.]

2. May I ask a sincere question?

You must be aware that the vast majority of DUers are against the actions of hamas, yet you seem to post mostly hot-button topics that could reasonably be expected to spark division here, and include rightwing positions such as "anti-UN" sentiment.

May I ask what motivates you to start these discussions?

Edit to add:
Perhaps if you clearly wrote out whatever position you are trying to express, a more meaningful discussion could ensue.

[The Magistrate]

4. Shall I Name Others You Ought To Ask That 'Sincere Question', Sir?

Because I readily could. You know as well as I do who.

With such energetic attempts to elicit support for a party to a conflict that takes sadistic murderers for its champions, it seems only right and proper someone should provide human context for the other party's tale.

Again: Not one bomb would be dropped in Gaza, not one person there killed or maimed, save for the spree of sadistic murder Hamas indulged itself in on October 7. Torturers and killers who were greeted with adulation and applause on their return, not revulsion and abhorrence. By crowds eager to join in the torment of the victims brought back for further sport.

[Think. Again.]

22. No need to name others...

...we can all see the people who appear to be divisive.

One point though, I disagree with your statement that "energetic attempts to elicit support for a party to a conflict that takes sadistic murderers for its champions," by which I assume you mean hamas support, is occurring on DU.

[The Magistrate]

26. I Do Not Say Things I Do Not Mean

People who champion the cause of Arab Palestine on the left need to face up to two things.

The people of Arab Palestine take Hamas as their champion, the spree of sadistic murder its killers indulged in on October 7 was greeted with adulation and applause.

The course of action they demand of Israel is that which Hamas wants, and they couch their demands Israel do so in language indistinguishable from that Hamas employs routinely.

This isn't rocket surgery.

[Think. Again.]

39. You may be mistaken...

...in your ...assumption... of how 'the people of Arab Palestine' take hamas (we'll overlook the outright bigotry of that statement and assume you didn't mean what you said)...

From foreignaffairs.com:

"The argument that the entire population of Gaza can be held responsible for Hamas’s actions is quickly discredited when one looks at the facts. Arab Barometer, a research network where we serve as co-principal investigators, conducted a survey in Gaza and the West Bank days before the Israel-Hamas war broke out. The findings, published here for the first time, reveal that rather than supporting Hamas, the vast majority of Gazans have been frustrated with the armed group’s ineffective governance as they endure extreme economic hardship. Most Gazans do not align themselves with Hamas’s ideology, either. Unlike Hamas, whose goal is to destroy the Israeli state, the majority of survey respondents favored a two-state solution with an independent Palestine and Israel existing side by side.

(Full article: https://www.foreignaffairs.com/israel/what-palestinians-really-think-hamas )

[GuppyGal]

57. Right...but they are only frustrated with them because their own social services were suffering...not the ideology

unfortunately and they have little choice about that since it's taught since birth. Hopefully that mindset will be changing.

[Think. Again.]

62. As the excerpt clearly states...

"Most Gazans do not align themselves with Hamas’s ideology, either. Unlike Hamas, whose goal is to destroy the Israeli state, the majority of survey respondents favored a two-state solution with an independent Palestine and Israel existing side by side."

[redqueen]

68. Thank you

Just as many Israelis and Jews around the world are sickened by Israel's government's actions, many arabs are disgusted by the barbaric actions of hamas.

[lapfog_1]

59. "war broke out"

is an interesting phrase to use for Oct 7. when one hears that phrase you might be thinking of two armies facing each other over a demarcation line when one side might engage in a provocative military action against the opposing army.

Slaughtering young people at a music festival at 6:30am by raping women to death or near death and then shooting them in the vagina to watch them bleed to death and hunting down anyone that tried to escape or throwing a grenade into a bomb shelter full of unarmed civilians and shooting those that try to escape is not "war breaking out"... it is terrorism of the worst kind. Sadistic terrorism.

As for the millions of innocent people in Gaza NOT supporting Hamas...

What was captured on video was the terrorists returning from their raid, with hostages the people in Gaza tried to spit on or shout at or a dead naked girl in the back of a pickup truck with crowd of young men and boys chasing after it shouting "allahu Akbar" and throwing rocks or holding up their cell phones to capture ( as a personal memento of this great victory ). I certainly didn't see anyone step forward on that day to condemn Hamas as they rolled through the streets of Gaza with their "trophies" or kidnap victims.

The actions of the members of the Red Cross to the parents of kidnap victims is absolutely horrible.

[JustAnotherGen]

101. Can I add something here?

If Hamas could wave a magic wand and seconds later every single American dropped dead . . . they would.

Not a single Pro Palestinian or Pro Hamas American would be spared.

All of us would be dead.

[NCIndie]

9. +1

[Beastly Boy]

13. I am motivated by a rather pronounced absence of objectivity and balance

in the various narratives being pushed in the social media in general and on DU in particular about Israel and the Jews.

I see a dangerous trend in these narratives of normalizing antisemitism, and one of its manifestations is the one-sided presentation of the Israel - Palestine issue (just an aside example: even the way this topic is framed is somewhat deceptive even though universally accepted - Israeli Jews are as much Palestinian as the Palestinian Arabs). To me as a Jew, this trend represents an existential threat in very personal terms, and history is my good witness for justifying my fears. I would say that an impulse to protect my sorry ass from harm or worse is a rather strong motivator.

So this is personal. I am not pretending to be balanced or objective, I am pushing back on a real threat whose advocacy is about to become a norm, an advocacy whose sinister presence is about to become unnoticed and unquestioned, as it has been for centuries, unless there are enough voices to actively resist the tacit entrenchment of this vile narrative into popular culture.

The Israel/Palestine (and I am accepting this dichotomy for what it has come to represent regardless of its semantic inaccuracy) is a mere proxy for the rise of global antisemitism. It will take a PhD thesis to give proper perspective on the subject, but the one-sided coverage of the conflict can already be statistically confirmed, and is becoming more evident as time goes by.

This time, I am not about to just stand by and watch it happen. History is witness to this not ending well for my people, my immediate family included.

[The Magistrate]

21. Well Said, Sir

[Think. Again.]

23. I believe...

...the non-hamas, innocent, Palestinian civilians in Gaza would agree with your call for objectivity and balance.

[Beastly Boy]

38. They should, and an increasing number of them do.

And for the sake of objectivity, it is absolutely imperative that the source of their suffering is identified and unequivocally condemned. Unfortunately, that source is the brutal regime that has the means, the motive and the opportunity to keep them silent.

[Think. Again.]

42. The "LOOK WHAT YOU MADE ME DO!"...

...defense doesn't even work in divorce courts.

[Beastly Boy]

45. It's "look what they did in the course of their entire rule of Gaza",

"not what they made me do". Not to mention that they are openly admitting to what they did.

They doomed Gaza civilians to death and suffering. When homicidal religious zealots tell you something, believe them.

[Think. Again.]

54. I firmly believe ....

....in Israel's right to defend itself.

I firmly believe hamas must be ended immediately.

But the is no doubt that it is Israeli military decisions that are killing innocent, non-hamas Gaza civilians.

[EX500rider]

82. And which major war in the last 100 years did not have a high civilian death count?

[Think. Again.]

84. Are you saying that...

...repeating this over and over somehow makes it a good and acceptable thing?

[EX500rider]

88. I am saying it is the way urban warfare is and has been

[Think. Again.]

89. I don't accept it...

...and will continue to stand against it.

[EX500rider]

92. Easy solution

Hamas builds bunkers and underground bases out in the countryside of Gaza...and no Gaza is not all urban.
Until then the civilian deaths are on them, same as any military that decides to fight it out in their cities.

All the white areas are countryside:

[Think. Again.]

93. Or....

...Israel spends some of the 3 billion dollars/year we just give them to use modern tech and intelligence to target specifically hamas militants, leaders, and arms.

[EX500rider]

94. 1st the 3 billion is 7% of their military budget

And "use modern tech and intelligence to target specifically hamas militants, leaders, and arms."
I believe that is wat they are doing but there are lots of civilians in the way.

I also don't believe the hamas numbers, we have zero idea how many dead are hamas since they count their dead as civilians and I trust their number even less, the US couldn't give you up to date war dead in a active war zone in the US, I highly doubt Hamas is super efficient and could.

[Think. Again.]

95. Good grief, you mean...

....their military budget is that big and they still hit innocent, non-hamas Gaza civilians????

Maybe they should spend some of that on training....

[EX500rider]

96. And how big is the US military budget in comparison? Are our troops undertrained?

Or is it in the nature of urban combat?

[Think. Again.]

97. You keep trying to promote...

...the idea that civilian casualties is somehow positive.

[EX500rider]

98. And what did I say "positive" about it exactly?

Just a realistic view of how urban combat is and has been

Urban ground combat:
See:

Stalingrad


Battle of Grozny-1999


Second Battle of Fallujah-2004


Popasna-Ukraine


Battle of Mariupol-Ukraine


Taiz-Yemen

[Think. Again.]

99. Wow, it's like we haven't...

...made any advancements in technology or intelligence gathering at all.

[TheKentuckian]

108. You don't accept reality? On what basis?

Why is Israel uniquely and especially responsible for inventing and perfectly executing magic beans warfare that there is no example of?

Certainly, not a standard the United States has demonstrated even with far easier conditions to do so or reason to take any actions at all.

So who meets this bar and why is no one else held to it?

[Think. Again.]

109. It is not reality...

...that the only way to end hamas is to kill innocent, non-hamas Gaza civilians.

We are ALL responsible for protecting innocent lives.

[malaise]

5. because the Red Cross is international, it is neutral

And two sides are victims here. One side is the Palestinian people. And I do not intend to forget them.

[The Magistrate]

8. You Are Too Good A Person, Ma'am, To Have Said That To A Captive's Family

[malaise]

11. The Red Cross is perfectly aware that for thousands of Palestinians we are dealing with the dead not the captured

It is horrific for both sides.

[The Magistrate]

14. This Is Something Point-Blank, Ma'am

Say you are a person addressing the family of a captive, desperate to get required medicines to their kin. You are having difficulties getting through to the kidnappers. You say something like this: We're doing our best. It is a war zone. The people we're having to deal with don't really care if your child dies, but we're trying, we're doing everything in our power to get the medicine to your baby. Try and have hope.

Should a person in that situation say instead, or in addition to that, something to the effect that well, the people where your child is being held captive by murderers are being hurt, too, you have to have some sympathy for them, that person ought to be horsewhipped, and if they were slain in a blind rage, on a jury I would vote to acquit.

[hlthe2b]

17. Speech (however deplorable) should be subject to death? Really, Magistrate?

You stated: "that person ought to be horsewhipped, and if they were slain in a blind rage, on a jury I would vote to acquit."

PLEASE do NOT let yourself be turned into that which you justifiably deplore.

[The Magistrate]

20. I Do Not Say Things I Do Not Mean

I would not punish a person who reacted in fury to such moral cretinism, face to face with it.

[hlthe2b]

27. That is identical to a right wing exhortation I've heard lately and antithetical to our constitution

and democracy. For someone named "the Magistrate," I find that horrific and deeply depressing. If it was anyone else, I would just write it off as emotionally charged hyperbolic rhetoric. But you know better and you ARE better than that.

[hlthe2b]

28. Not punish someone who murders over speech? Good gawd, "Magistrate."

[Happy Hoosier]

49. Perhaps, but who would be so crass as to say that to someone who...

... had witnessed the horrors of Oct 7 and was then held captive.

Who could be so disconnected with empathy as to demand such a victim "think of the Palestinians."

Sweet Jeebus.

These same people would tell those rescued from the Death Camps to think of the poor Germans.

As a reminder over 125,000 German Civilians died in the Battle of Berlin in 1945. My mother LIVED in Berlin in 1945, and not even I would say such a thing.

Have you been able to "other" Israelis SO MUCH that you'd say such a thing to one of the victims of Hamas?

[hlthe2b]

12. And you are too good a person, sir, to only consider the suffering of innocents on one side.

[The Magistrate]

19. And I Do Consider That

I would far rather no one was being harmed. I am well aware of what happens when a quarter ton of explosives detonates in or near a shoddily built apartment tower.

I refuse, however, to lose sight of the fact that not one bomb would be dropped in Gaza, not one person there maimed or killed, save for the spree of sadistic murder Hamas indulged itself in on October 7, nor do I turn my eyes from the fact that on their return, the killers were greeted with applause and adulation, and that people they passed with their captives were eager to join in tormenting their victims.

[hlthe2b]

24. You conflate the actions of Hamas with all Palestinians, including the more than 50% children.

At what point is collateral damage TOO much? Is there a point where a justified response turns otherwise?

I have this on my mind as I sat on a jury a couple of years ago evaluating police officer actions that led to the deaths of hostages. The prosecutor was able to conclusively show this occurred after the lead SWAT team officer made the conscious decision to sacrifice the two children and their mother after 12 hours because the perpetrator/former husband and documented abuser was deemed so dangerous and had wantonly murdered a police officer. Several of those SWAT team members both supported the decision, carried it out without question, and defended the actions afterward because (in the words of one) he had "murdered one of their own and was thus evil." I will never forget that and I would bet neither will any of the other jurors or those in that courtroom. It was then that I realized the extent to which anger and hatred could be used to justify similarly horrific actions. I don't want that for you. I don't want that for any of us.

[The Magistrate]

36. A Sad Story

I probably would agree the police did wrong.

So far, as regards the Geneva codes, I do not consider the Israelis have yet stepped over the line.

I'm not sure I would care much beyond the pro forma necessities if they did. There's a lot I would have cared about on October 6 I do not now.

And do leave off concern for my moral character and spiritual health. It's not welcome, it's not necessary, and it's ineffectual.

[hlthe2b]

37. It isn't religious concern; it is personal concern, I can assure you.

As one very long term DUer to another.

[Happy Hoosier]

67. And I don't want...

Hamas to remain in power and to plan the next horrific massacre.

Because if you are willing to allow Hamas to stay in power because the price is too high to remove them, you are implicitly accepting that they wil plot and execute the next Oct 7. In my view, Hamas can only be removed from power by force.

[hlthe2b]

69. No one is advocating for Hamas. NO ONE.

[Happy Hoosier]

71. It doesn't matter if you advocate for Hamas or not....

... if you are doing exactly as they want anyway.

I don't think anyone here is actively FOR Hamas. But many here are willing to give Hamas exactly what they want: assurity that they will remain in power by using the civilian population as shields.

I think you have at least acknowledge that. You may still think it's morally demanded. I can respect that, though I do not agree with it.

[hlthe2b]

73. No one here is "giving Hamas" exactly what they want. Your hyperbole is offensive as hell and

ridiculous. I am reminded of a (former) neighbor of mine, who after a string of catalytic converter thefts from right in front of our homes (mine included) advocated for shooting from the front doors any time someone not recognized was seen near a driveway or car. That there were joggers, dog walkers, and kids out there, even in the wee hours of the morning or late evening didn't phase him.

So, again, what level of collateral damage" is ultimately acceptable to you? Are there ANY limits? Can you answer that? Because if you can't, the world will, no matter how justified the war on Hamas--at least in its beginnings. A resultant loss of the world's goodwill, support, and assistance towards Israel--at least from sympathetic countries of the West-- is precisely what Hamas WANTS. Something to consider.

[EX500rider]

83. Does Hamas want a ceasefire? Do posters here also favor a ceasefire?

Would that not be giving Hamas want they want?

[agingdem]

18. wrong...the Palestinians are victims of Hamas not Israel...

they provide shelter for Hamas, willingly serve as human shields...they allow Hamas to dig tunnels under their schools, hospitals, and mosques where they store their cache of weapons...they pretend not to notice Hamas block/divert humanitarian aid, enriching their leadership while they live in poverty...and they rejoice when Israeli babies are beheaded/children and parents are tortured and killed/cheer when women are raped and mutilated and the elderly and disabled are set on fire/celebrate when babies and children are taken from their families and held captive...

and because Israel had the audacity to retaliate, they were"advised" to show restraint, follow the rules of war, give advanced warning prior attack, provide humanitarian aide, offer a safe corridor out of Gaza...and negotiate with the monsters who are committed to wiping Jews and Israel off the face of the earth ("From the River to the Sea"...)

there is no "both sides" or hapless/helpless Gaza Palestinians....Israel did not start this war but Israel will finish this war....

[Think. Again.]

25. For clarification...

...when you write:

"there is no "both sides" or hapless/helpless Gaza Palestinians..."

Are you saying that you believe all Gaza Palestinians are guilty by virtue of them being Gaza Palestinians?

[agingdem]

31. if they give safe harbor to rampaging barbarians..

if they turn a blind eye to the slaughter of all Jews then yes all Gaza Palestinians are guilty..

[Think. Again.]

41. I believe we've come full circle.

[JustAnotherGen]

102. People seem to forget

That Hamas didn't just pop up out of nowhere in 2006. Sheik Ahmed Assan rooted this political party with social welfare programs to woo the people - in the 1970's.

They focused on revolution from below for 30 years before the 2006 election as a Political Party. Their platform in 2006 was to implement Sharia Law and eliminate Israel.

Good, bad, indifferent - the Palestinians have allowed their political leadership to frame their power as a choice of the citizens.

I don't see anyone in Palestine pulling a Newton Knight. There's no Claus Von Stauffenberg.

What you permit you promote. These folks pretending that the Palestinians aren't going along with this - are not going to convince me that the majority are against their government.

I hope this ends for Palestine the same way it did for the Axis. Brought to heel and cowered into submission.

[Beastly Boy]

29. Because Red Cross is international, it is odd to see them

level undue criticism on families of victims on just one side of the conflict.

[ShazzieB]

76. Extremely odd, and disturbing.

[JustAnotherGen]

79. I'm wondering if it was

The Red Crescent - as opposed to cross.

If so - the volunteers may be predisposed to want to inflict pain on the Israelis.

I wonder if Doctors Without Borders could influence them here.

[NCIndie]

10. Just one side of the story here.

A poorly written article with scenarios that seem unlikely.

Did the J-Post attempt to get another point of view from the Red Cross? Did they actually refuse to deliver medicines?

And why did the author of the OP drop this steam pile and then dash off?

[The Magistrate]

15. That Didn't Age Well, Did It Dear

[NCIndie]

58. I like the way you capitalized that.

A formal title, but you turn the page and everything is "THIS PAGE INTENTIONALLY LEFT BLANK."

Very innovative, dear.

[emulatorloo]

80. OP didn't "dash" though. So yeah, your post didn't age well.

I count 10 posts by them.

[Beastly Boy]

32. There are only two points of view on this subject:

One is that of Red Cross and the other is that of the hostages held by terrorists.

Red Cross expressed their point of view. For obvious reasons, and due in part to Red Cross not living up to their responsibilities, the hostages have yet to let theirs known.

[NCIndie]

63. Really?

Red Cross expressed their point of view.

Did they? The family gave us a quote with absolutely no context, and one of the released hostages did likewise.

Where are the quotes from the Red Cross? Did J-Post bother at all to reach out, or does the narrative tell better when they slam the Red Cross and cast them as being pro-Palestinian and mere "taxi drivers" for the Israeli hostages.

[Beastly Boy]

66. The quotes by the Red Cross representative were provided in the article.

If this is point of view is not supported by the Red Cross, a retraction is in order. It was a public statement that demands a public response, but the response is not forthcoming. This doesn't create an obligation for anyone to reach out to the Red Cross for comments. It is entirely their responsibility.

[NCIndie]

72. That is simply incorrect.

I have read that article four times, and the Red Cross is quoted only through third parties. The Red Cross was not questioned directly by the J-Post in this article. This is as close as it comes:

The Jerusalem Institute of Justice recently sent a letter to the ICRC pointing out that it had made several social media posts about the dire humanitarian situation in Gaza, but not a single one about the plight of the hostages and other Israeli victims from the October 7 massacre.

Not exactly the same thing.

Here is an article that actually bothered the contact the IIRC: https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/podcasts/2023-12-05/ty-article-podcast/we-cant-force-our-way-in-the-red-cross-confronts-israeli-anger-over-hostages/0000018c-3a54-d5f2-a5cc-7e54eeb50000

[LexVegas]

16. Disgusting. nt

[ExciteBike66]

30. I would be interested to know how the red cross could provide more help while all of gaza is being bombed...

If there were actual safe zones then maybe, but they are only safe until Israel suspected there are hamas fighters there...

[Beastly Boy]

33. Red cross has substantial presence in Gaza, bombings or not.

But not where the hostages are. Yeah, blame Israel for that.

[ExciteBike66]

40. What would you have them do?

Presumably the hostages are held with fighters and hamas leaders. That means they are targets for bombs.

I don't blame Israel for targeting hamas, but the families are crazy to think the ICRC can just go into hamas tunnels without both hamas and Israel agreeing not to kill them.

[Beastly Boy]

43. Pull their considerable resources together and keep the hostages in the news

every single day Hamas denies them access to the hostages.

For starters. Then use their considerable back channel resources to actually gain access to the hostages, as the hostage families demand they do to no avail, two months after the hostages had been taken.

[ExciteBike66]

44. OK but

Assuming they could get hamas to agree to visits, they would have to get Israel to halt bombing. In fact, the ICRC has said that if those agreements happen, they would be perfectly willing to visit the hostages.

I mean, you have to agree with me that the two sides would have to stop shooting for the ICRC to do their job, right?

[Beastly Boy]

48. Do you seriously believe Israel wouldn't halt whatever bombing neccessary to facilitate Red Cross

in their attempt to see the hostages and report on their condition?

They just recently halted all the military operations in Gaza to get some of them out!

[ExciteBike66]

51. I seriously believe Israel will not halt the bombing, yes.

In fact, those same hostages families have loudly criticized Netanyahu specifically for not negotiating another pause for the hostages. So yes, if Netanyahu won't listen to the families, I doubt he is listening to the ICRC.

Edit: I want to add that I also think hamas will not allow access to the hostages. Its not like Israel is the only party not agreeing with the ICRC.

[Beastly Boy]

60. Well, your belief is not based on fact.

Israel did just that very recently.

And note that your edit puts the validity of your initial premise in doubt. If you think Hamas will not allow access to hostages, the criticism of Netanyahu by the families of hostages is baseless, at least in your opinion.

[ExciteBike66]

74. But the original story is about ICRC, not Netanyahu...

If hamas is to blame (and I agree they are) then my original point stands: we should not blame ICRC for not already having visited the hostages. I do not blame ICRC for not going into hamas tunnels when hamas doesn't agree to let them and the tunnels are still (valid) war targets for Israel.

You made it seem like you think ICRC can somehow convince the two sides to stop fighting long enough for a visit, and for some reason are not doing so . That's what I disagree with.

[Beastly Boy]

85. I responded to the beliefs and assumptions that you expressed in your post:

Last edited Fri Dec 8, 2023, 06:55 PM - Edit history (1)

First, you proposed an assumption that IIRC " could get hamas to agree to visits".Following that assumption, you proposed that "they would have to get Israel to halt bombing".

In response, I questioned your doubts that IIRC wouldn't get Israel's agreement to halt the bombings.

You responded with "I seriously believe Israel will not halt the bombing, yes.", then taking a detour into " those same hostages families have loudly criticized Netanyahu specifically for not negotiating another pause for the hostages. So yes, if Netanyahu won't listen to the families, I doubt he is listening to the ICRC." and ending with "I also think hamas will not allow access to the hostages".

Which I then questioned based on available evidence: " Well, your belief is not based on fact. Israel did just that very recently", referring to the recent cease fire. Furthermore, nothing you said shields ICRC from criticism for their repulsive response to the families of the hostages. Likewise, their absence of action on any front regarding the hostages deserves criticism whether they have access to them or not.

You qualified your comment with a belief that you "also think Hamas will not allow access to the hostages". Whether I agree with it or not, that makes the specific instance of hostage families criticizing Netanyahu pointless, since, by your own assessment, they are not directing their criticism where it belongs. And the rest of your comments about Netanyahu not listening to the hostages, or Netanyahu not listening to ICRC, etc., are irrelevant to the subject at hand.

So, notwithstanding your detour into criticizing Netanyahu, you are right: the original story is about ICRC, not him. And I see no reason at all why ICRC should be immune to criticism regarding their tone deaf and one-sided response to the families of the hostages or their apparent silence on the subject of the hostages in general.

[JustAnotherGen]

103. There was a ceasefire

Why didn't they do it then?

[LeftInTX]

47. I thought they couldn't access the hostages because Hamas wouldn't let them.

I've seen untrue stuff in J Post before.

https://www.icrc.org/en/document/debunking-harmful-narratives-about-our-work-israel-and-palestinian-occupied-territories



______


I also participate in other forums with alot right wingers and rumors get spread around from tweets etc. Last week the J Post said that a dead baby was a doll. Why would they show a doll? There are plenty of dead kids in Gaza. The J Post eventually deleted the article. https://www.thedailybeast.com/jerusalem-post-retracts-article-claiming-that-dead-palestinian-baby-was-a-doll

[Beastly Boy]

53. Now, how disingenuous does their criticism of the hostage families sound

Last edited Fri Dec 8, 2023, 12:56 PM - Edit history (1)

in the context of this statement?

Hamas is preventing the red cross from seeing the hostages, yet the hostage families have to "think about the Palestinians"? How'bout redoubling their efforts to do their jobs right instead?

And what do you find inaccurate about this particular report?

[LeftInTX]

56. Is Hamas letting them see the hostages? It's a simple question

I would like to hear the Red Cross's version. I provided the ICRC link with FAQ and rumors.

Debunking harmful narratives about our work in Israel and Gaza: https://www.icrc.org/en/document/debunking-harmful-narratives-about-our-work-israel-and-palestinian-occupied-territories

Families in duress may often misinterpret what they've heard.

_________________

There are also rumors going around that ICRC is a Hamas supporter.
This is prompting Americans to stop donating to the American Red Cross.

I tend to get upset because many humanitarian NGO groups are targeted. This is common in the US among right wing groups.

[Beastly Boy]

64. So you can't point to any inaccuracies in this report.

Good start.

In the absence of evidence of "false and misleading information surrounding the ICRC’s activities" in this particular case, I would also like to hear ICRC's version. However, several days after the described incident, it is not forthcoming. Nor were there any responses to the letter from The Jerusalem Institute of Justice to the ICRC "pointing out that it had made several social media posts about the dire humanitarian situation in Gaza, but not a single one about the plight of the hostages and other Israeli victims from the October 7 massacre" that was mentioned in the JPost article.

I would suggest that the ICRC's silence is a greater contributor to withdrawal of support from Americans than the conspiracy theories surrounding ICRC's support of Hamas.

[Wingus Dingus]

55. Insane.

[JI7]

65. A lot of these organizations have people with certain agendas

It's how Hamas has been able to do the shit they do in a place full of these groups.

[sarisataka]

70. As soon as Theresienstadt is ready

The Red Cross will be happy to visit the hostages.

What is old is new again.

[MineralMan]

81. Pretty obscure reference, there.

I suggest that anyone who is curious might Google Theresienstadt Red Cross.

[Hekate]

87. I'm old, so I get it, but the younger generation should look it up for sure

[sarisataka]

90. Hopefully it will pique people's curiosity

And they will look it up. I recall the first time seeing the films that were made in that ghetto.

[JustAnotherGen]

104. I got it too

[karynnj]

77. Reading between the lines, there is a less troubling intrepation

The account is that of the parents. Is it possible that the IRC was explaining that getting her the medicine is tough as Gaza is being bombed. As a parent, I get THEIR concern for their unjustly kidnapped child and their frustration with the IRC not getting her her medicine. However, I would bet the IRC would love to do what they are risking their lives to do - which would include visiting the hostages and acting as a conduit for information between them and their families.

[Coventina]

78. Fuck the Red Cross. I will never forget Katrina. n/t

[Nanjeanne]

91. If the Red Cross representative said it that way - it's a pretty insensitive statement. But this article only states

what KAN is saying the parents were told. KAN is the Israeli broadcasting station so it would be beneficial to hear if KAN did an interview with the Steinbrechers to hear the actual broadcast (especially if it could be heard unedited) or to hear directly from the Steinbrechers.

It could have happened exactly the way KAN said . . . but it's an odd thing for the Red Cross to say in that manner directly in response to asking for medication to brought in, which is the way the article portrays it. I'm not sure the Red Cross can actually get medicines to the hostages being held by a terrorist organization so I can certainly see how disappointing such a discussion would be. "We left there as we entered: without new information, without something new, and with disappointment," said Simona - could easily be an expression of disappointment that they were unable to learn anything from the Red Cross that would help them understand what is happening with their child.

KAN uses the word "shock" and certainly if the Simona quote was said in reference to the Red Cross statement about Palestinians I can see why she would be shocked. But the way the article is written - it's really impossible to tell. Maybe it's just a badly written article or maybe it happened exactly that abruptly and thoughtlessly. If it happened that way, then whomever the rep from Red Cross was should certainly be taken to task for terrible insensitivity. If it didn't happen the way KAN told Jerusalemn Post - then, while still a terrible situation for the Steinbrechers - it's not quite as inhumane as JP is reporting.

We really won't know until someone actually talks to the Steinbrechers.

FYI - for those interested in ICRC's response to a variety of questions regarding Israel/Gaza war - here is a link: https://www.icrc.org/en/document/frequently-asked-questions-icrc-and-hostages-held-gaza

This part might shed some light:
We want families in Israel and abroad to know that the plight of their loved ones being held hostage is one of our priorities. Since day one, we have publicly and repeatedly called to have access to them and for their immediate release.•

We are persistently advocating for the hostages, directly with Hamas, with the Israeli authorities, and with actors who have an influence on the parties to the conflict.•

We continue to request information on and access. We also continue to request that they be able to share a message with their families.•

We reiterate that the hostages should be released immediately and unconditionally and, while in captivity, they must be treated humanely, have access to medical care if needed, be able to get in contact with their loved ones, and that they must ultimately be released without harm.•

We stand ready to facilitate their release, as we have done for four hostages so far.We are speaking with Hamas at highest levels. We held meetings with international officials to convey the message.

We are also demanding at least to give the hostages medical treatment and convey messages to their families.We strengthened our team in charge of this dialogue, to intensify our efforts, and staff in Gaza is ready to visit the hostages and to facilitate any future release following an agreement reached by the parties.We are doing all we can and more, publicly and behind doors, to obtain access to the hostages. We can´t force ourselves in. It is the responsibility of the parties to give us the green-light and the access that we are constantly asking for.


.

[Cha]

100. HAMAS Didn't "think" about the Palestinians When

they Committed their sadistic sexual torturing Rape killings? And All the other Atrocities in heir SNEAK Attack on Israel.

So Fcuk That NOISE

[MorbidButterflyTat]

105. What's weird to me,

is this article supplies victims' names, "Roni and Simona, the parents of Doron Steinbrecher," but not the name(s) of the "Red Cross representatives." Why?