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TexasDem69
(2,317 posts)
Dorian Gray
(13,850 posts)president very publicly lost a $100 million dollar gift to the school after her testimony. Her primary function is funding of that nature, so that was a HUGE issue. Any not for profit organization needs someone able to fundraise and strategically plan in that role, and she lost the confidence of her board, her school and her funders.
I think The Harvard President will resign, as well, but it may be more drawn out. There weren't immediate gift recalls there... of this magnitude. Though that may still shake out.
MIT president seems to have received the least heat of the three women.
Personally, I think that resigning is probably the right thing to do, especially in the case of Penn. She doesn't have control of the narrative anymore. I agree with her board chair that she was probably given advice about legalities and she went into the hearing overly legalistic and not with enough heart.... but the damage was done to the reputation of the school. it's a bit of a shit sandwich.
tenderfoot
(8,982 posts)to spew her racist garbage.
PCIntern
(28,366 posts)Almost…. Competition is getting tough these days
SYFROYH
(34,214 posts)TexasDem69
(2,317 posts)
DFW
(60,186 posts)So she’s not going anywhere, except out of the spotlight.
sarisataka
(22,695 posts)I think that might have something to do with her resignation.
MOMFUDSKI
(7,080 posts)the world.
sarisataka
(22,695 posts)When money is more influential than morality
Sympthsical
(10,969 posts)When that person is the same one who said a Canadian Jewish school getting shot up was chickens coming to roost.
So, you know . . .
Cha
(319,072 posts)Dorian Gray
(13,850 posts)so her refusing to answer the question about whether those calls constituted harassment or went against school code speaks to a lack of moral clarity. The same would be true about calls for genocide of the Palestinians. Calls for genocide, especially aimed at your peers on campus, should be unequivocally condemned. That is the moral stance.
Sympthsical
(10,969 posts)Enhancing the reputation of one's institution is practically University President 101.
I don't think I've ever seen someone single-handedly flush their college's reputation as rapidly down the toilet as Magill managed here.
DFW
(60,186 posts)She singlehandedly blew it in a few seconds.
Dorian Gray
(13,850 posts)Once that happened, I knew her time was limited. You can't run a university and publicly lose major donors like that. That's your primary function as head of the university.
Cha
(319,072 posts)Wrong answer.. ".. context dependen.. "
Glorfindel
(10,175 posts)One down, two to go. Good riddance to a fucking anti-semite.
MichMan
(17,150 posts)Her resignation is only as president
Igel
(37,535 posts)At least it reduces the range of her corrosion.
Although it renders the Penn Carey "law school" more the Pen Carey "loss ... cool."
MichMan
(17,150 posts)And I'm not Jewish. But I'm intersectionally in the "oppressor" category, so I'd assume that by the end of week 1 my grade would be -10 and I work from there. Not that any online gradebook would reflect this, that would be actionable.
mcar
(46,056 posts)Let me make this easy: If a university president couldn't unconditionally denounce white nationalists calling for genocide against people of color NO ONE would expect her to stay. Failure to denounce categorically calls for GENOCIDE isn't acceptable for a CEO, a politician or the head of any organization. These are private universities free to set their own codes of conduct - which they do.
Beakybird
(3,397 posts)mcar
(46,056 posts)Igel
(37,535 posts)in areas that bleed gray.
You could see the discomfort, the cog dissonance, at times.
I know for me that often shows up as a kind of blankness. "do what's right, or what's right?" But like a fundamentalist Xian, they have gut feelings and imposed correctness.
Hate wrong.
But ideology strong.
They each had to decide which won, and they chose correctly (by ideology) but incorrectly (by morality).
And only very soon afterwards did they learn that most are less ideologically pure and strive for some semblance of morality.
They live in a bubble. Inside a bubble. Inside a bubble.
In '21-22 tenured faculty at Penn earned at least $246,410/year. Truly, penury. Imagine how pitiful the salary for '23-24. But you know, university president--it's a position of service. Surely there's almost no pay differential.
Obviously, the current president pushes for social justice, consistently: https://www.thedp.com/article/2023/04/penn-salary-faculty-graduate-students-professors-tenure-president-ivy-league.
"The farce is strong with this one."
viva la
(4,598 posts)And everyone falls on with it.
emulatorloo
(46,155 posts)Jewish students in danger.
No excuses, no justifications.
LetMyPeopleVote
(179,857 posts)Beastly Boy
(13,283 posts)What I am surprised by is the abject willful ignorance that permeates America's institutions of higher learning, from their presidents to the last entitled pimply sophomore pushing their conceited outrage on falafel joints and libraries.
MichMan
(17,150 posts)
Srkdqltr
(9,760 posts)From anyone. Genocide is ultimate hate. They have all genders, nationality religions.
Hate has to be unexceptable.
I don't understand them.
viva la
(4,598 posts)And Congress GOP glories in lighting fires. That's all they are good at.
emulatorloo
(46,155 posts)
walkingman
(10,863 posts)I feel bad for the educators in America at all levels.
emulatorloo
(46,155 posts)She is responsible for her own words.
Cha
(319,072 posts) 
LexVegas
(6,959 posts)Silent Type
(12,412 posts)with gotta ya questions like Stefanik used. I do believe calling for death to Israelis is genocide, however when it gets mixed up with freedom of expression, it gets distorted.
“On Wednesday, [Harvard President] Gay issued a statement clarifying her remarks at the congressional hearing. “There are some who have confused a right to free expression with the idea that Harvard will condone calls for violence against Jewish students," Gay said.
“"Let me be clear: Calls for violence or genocide against the Jewish community, or any religious or ethnic group are vile, they have no place at Harvard, and those who threaten our Jewish students will be held to account," she continued.”
https://www.businessinsider.com/bill-ackman-harvard-mit-upenn-presidents-should-resign-disgrace-2023-12
When Stefanik wins, we probably lose. I’d damn sure not appear before Congress in this environment.
emulatorloo
(46,155 posts)As poster above wrote “I do not understand why they couldn't have said that they don't condone hate.”
Honestly it isn’t that difficult.
Silent Type
(12,412 posts)emulatorloo
(46,155 posts)I’ll get you the quote:
Failure to denounce categorically calls for GENOCIDE isn't acceptable for a CEO, a politician or the head of any organization. These are private universities free to set their own codes of conduct - which they do.
Silent Type
(12,412 posts)Jewish people” or anything close, I’ll retract and condemn then. But don’t think they did.
emulatorloo
(46,155 posts)Last edited Sun Dec 10, 2023, 01:38 PM - Edit history (4)
The issue is they could not bring themselves to simply condemn calls for genocide.
They received criticism from Democrats too, so let's not try to pretend otherwise.
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100218515960
Governor Hochul : Calls for Genocide of Jewish People Violates New York State and Federal Law
Eko
(9,993 posts)CLAIM: Pro-Palestine rallies at UCLA, Penn and elsewhere are calling for “Jewish genocide.”
AP’S ASSESSMENT: False. The chant uttered during recent demonstrations is being misrepresented. Protestors aren’t saying “We want Jewish genocide,” but “Israel, we charge you with genocide.” Experts and advocates say it’s a typical refrain heard at pro-Palestinian rallies.
But the anti-Israel chants heard during the pro-Palestine rallies are being misquoted, Jewish and Palestinian groups say.
The protestors are actually chanting, “Israel, Israel, you can’t hide: We charge you with genocide,” the Anti-Defamation League, which frequently speaks out against anti-Semitism and extremism, confirmed in an email Tuesday.
It’s a familiar refrain at anti-Israel rallies, but non-Israel-related versions are also heard at other protests, the New York-based Jewish group noted on a page on its webpage debunking false information about the ongoing conflict.
University of Pennsylvania students chanted 'We charge you with genocide' at rally | Fact check USA today
The transcription is wrong. The group was chanting, “We charge you with genocide,” a phrase that’s been repeated at pro-Palestinian rallies around the country. Both the student group that organized the rally and the school’s student newspaper said there were no chants advocating the genocide of Jewish people.
Local outlets including the Philadelphia Inquirer and the Daily Pennsylvanian, the university’s student newspaper, also had no mention of the supposed chant in their coverage of the rally.
“Multiple reporters and photographers who attended the walk-out event ... said that no one at the march chanted, ‘We want Jewish genocide,’" Daily Pennsylvanian Executive Editor Emi Tuyetnhi Tran said in an email. “Rather, what they heard was, ‘We charge you with genocide.’”
Supposedly this came from an Instagram post that has a video of protesting students purportedly shouting an antisemitic chant amid the Israel-Hamas war.
“‘We want Jewish genocide,’” reads the text superimposed on the video, transcribing what it claims the group was chanting. “This is my Alma Mater. This is the University of Pennsylvania. They are cheering for my death & the death of all Jews.”
Are there more instances of this or am I missing something?
lapucelle
(21,061 posts)PHILADELPHIA (CBS) -- Antisemitic messages were projected onto several University of Pennsylvania campus buildings Wednesday night, university president Liz Magill said.
The university said the messages shined on the walls of Penn Commons, Huntsman Hall and Irvine Auditorium.
snip============================
Penn Police and Allied security will have an increased presence at Penn Hillel, the Katz Center, Lubavitch House and other religious and cultural spaces, according to Magill. Magill added any rallies, protests, vigils and other campus gatherings would also have increased security.
Philadelphia defense attorney Bill Brennan told CBS News Philadelphia that police and prosecutors have a high bar to reach when considering charges, given First Amendment protections.
"That's the state of the law," Brennan said. But you know, it's certainly a tough law to swallow when you know you're the kid on campus being targeted because of your ethnicity."
https://www.cbsnews.com/philadelphia/news/antisemitic-messages-university-of-pennsylvania-buildings-philadelphia/
-----------------------------------------------------------
PHILADELPHIA (CBS) -- University of Pennsylvania police and the FBI are investigating threatening antisemitic emails sent to university staff, specifically naming Penn Hillel and Lauder College House, President Liz Magill said.
Penn's Division of Public Safety found no credible threat after completing sweeps of Penn Hillel and Lauder College House, Magill said in a message to the university community.
snip==========================
Earlier this month, Penn said it is implementing new preventive measures to fight antisemitism on campus. It came in the aftermath of a student being taken into custody in September for causing a disturbance at Penn Hillel during the student-led Jewish organization's morning prayer service.
snip===============================
"The perniciousness of antisemitic acts on our campus is causing deep hurt and fear for our Jewish students, faculty, and staff and shaking their sense of safety and belonging at Penn," Magill said. "This is intolerable. I condemn personally these vicious and hateful antisemitic acts and words."
https://www.cbsnews.com/philadelphia/news/university-of-pennsylvania-hillel-antisemitic-emails-fbi/
Eko
(9,993 posts)Antisemitic messages were not happening on universities? If not then why are you posting this? I think you are looking for a argument/fight and you are not going to get the one you want from me.
lapucelle
(21,061 posts)I'm glad we can agree that there is anti-Semitism on campus at UPenn.
I also think it is reality that Liz Magill resigned.
Eko
(9,993 posts)was that the protestors at the Schools were chanting genocide for Israel like a lot of people think.
lapucelle
(21,061 posts)"By any means necessary", and "Globalize the intifada".
Eko
(9,993 posts)You could have just asked.
lapucelle
(21,061 posts)What "is not reality"?
Eko
(9,993 posts)What "is not reality"?
That the students chanted for genocide on the Israelis.
lapucelle
(21,061 posts)is calling for genocide on the Israelis.
Any protester chanting "By any means necessary" is (at the very least) endorsing a repeat of the October 7 violence.
Any protestor chanting "Globalize the intifada" is in favor of staging terrorist attacks outside of Israel.
https://www.adl.org/resources/blog/stop-and-think-anti-israel-chants-and-what-they-mean
Eko
(9,993 posts)Of whom I like a lot and hist "CTRL F" and type "genocide" for some reason it is not on that page. Huh.
Eko
(9,993 posts)But they didn't chant that did they? They did not say those words, right? They said other things that can be interpreted to mean that, some think they do some think they don't. Personally I think that those terms should not be said as they can mean that. But people disagree on this and words are words. They did not chant for genocide. They did not say those words.
lapucelle
(21,061 posts)From your link (Penn Student Against the Occupation the is embedded in the story).
https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-israel-hamas-ucla-penn-genocide-057006125279
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
https://www.instagram.com/p/Cyi2WP6uis0/?hl=en&img_index=1
==========================
From the UCLA Daily Bruin
Hundreds of UCLA students participate in march, walkout for Palestine
Participants at the walkout, many of whom wore face masks to conceal their identities, chanted phrases such as “From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free,” “There is only one solution, intifada revolution” – a term historically referring to uprisings in Palestinian territories – and “Resistance is justified when people are occupied.”
Some members of the campus community were concerned that the chants during the walkout were antisemitic. According to the Anti-Defamation League, “From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free” has historically been associated with calls for a Palestinian state that would ultimately dismantle the state of Israel.
https://dailybruin.com/2023/10/26/hundreds-of-ucla-students-participate-in-march-walkout-for-palestine
Eko
(9,993 posts)I am sure you will post where they said that.
This is not the fight you thought you were going to get. You are trying to argue on what people mean, and yes some of them mean that, some of them dont. I am arguing what people said.
lapucelle
(21,061 posts)
Eko
(9,993 posts)lapucelle
(21,061 posts)If the single word "genocide" is not spoken, then a call for genocide is not being made. It's a literal argument that sets a single word as a necessary condition.
I'm not so sure that it's an altogether cogent argument, though, given that it involves interpretive denial and broad assumptions about the nature of language in general.
emulatorloo
(46,155 posts)Thanks for your posts.
lapucelle
(21,061 posts)has gone down in history as one of the most chillingly anodyne calls for the extermination an entire people without ever explicitly invoking the word "genocide".
Eko
(9,993 posts)Even the phrase from the river to the sea can be someone calling for genocide. It can also be people calling for Palestinians to be free. Can is the operative word here.
egduj
(881 posts)Because they didn't actually say genocide?
Eko
(9,993 posts)Cha
(319,072 posts) Eko
(9,993 posts)Anywhere in what you posted. The word is "genocide". That word.
lapucelle
(21,061 posts)Then you shifted your focus to a single word:
- "Yeah, words matter."
After which you admitted:
And now you're back to:
Get back to me once you've settled on the predicate of your argument (if there is one) or better yet, sea below.
Nixie
(17,984 posts)Eko
(9,993 posts)Do you have a preconceived notion of me? Do you actually know what I think? Kudos to you for knowing what I think.
Nixie
(17,984 posts)don't exist.
Elessar Zappa
(16,385 posts)Your move, Harvard.
Cha
(319,072 posts) Nixie
(17,984 posts)Prairie Gates
(8,156 posts)with their endless statements on everything. Chicago Principles were correct - no statements, no denunciations, period. It's not the role of university administrators. Once you do one, you give up the game.
Seriously, statement people: do you think they're not going to come for you eventually? You can never be on the right side of it enough.
The requirement to denounce is totalitarian. Do you denounce it? Do you denounce it, yes or no? Do you denounce it?
Freedom of speech means freedom from compelled professions of faith and compelled denunciations.
RobinA
(10,478 posts)Hounding people for not saying the right thing is despicable. However, this state of affairs was pretty predicable once universities started chiming in on politics.
"Compelled professions of faith and compelled denunciations." 
When I was in college in the '70's I was naive enough to think I would never see this sort of thing. I just assumed HUAC would loom large for a long time. I was wrong.