Possible Civil War

[CitizenZero]

It is possible that Trump could be re-elected and that he and his Fascist MAGA Cronies will attempt to suspend or defy the Constitution and use the Military, the Police, and the Government (such as the Justice Department) to round up, arrest, and even execute immigrants or even citizens. This could mean a Civil War between the MAGA Fascists and those loyal to our Democracy and Constitution (Us).

If they could violate or suspend the Constitution and try to use the Military and Police to illegally round up and arrest people, they would do this. There are people in Trump's orbit that would in fact do this, like Stephen Miller and Steve Bannon. Bannon calls this a War, so we should take him at his word on this. If he wants a War, it will be a War. A war of pro-Trump MAGA Fascists versus anti-Trump pro-Democracy, pro-America Constitutional Loyalists (real Americans not Fascists like Trump, Bannon, and Miller).. Basically those that will fight to protect the Constitution and our Democracy (us) and those that are opposed to our Constitution and Democracy (pro-Trump MAGA Fascists).

One way to stop Trump is for the Courts and the Congress to not allow illegal activities on the part of a new Trump Regime. We might not be able to do it peacefully. There might need to be armed, active resistance on the part of Police, Army, and the Civilian population. If Trump gets re-elected and then illegally orders the Military to act domestically (it is currently illegal to do so) then we need to have Police and Military that are loyal to the Constitution and not not Trump to oppose and stop it.

We may be on the verge of a Civil War. If so, we should plan to win it. Pro-Trump and anti-Trump Loyalists in the Military and Police may clash. We need to make sure that the mass of Military and Police do not or will not execute illegal and unconstitutional orders from a Trump Regime. I specifically call it a Regime and not an Administration because if Trump and his people suspend the Constitution that would be an illegal act and therefore his Administration would be illegal. So it would be an illegal Regime, not a legal Administration.

If Trump and his Fascist cronies like Stephen Miller and Steve Bannon get in power and try to order the Military to invade US Cities and detain, arrest, or even execute people that resist, the Congress could oppose this as illegal and unconstitutional (but might not if the MAGA Republicans have control over the House and/or the Senate). If Congress can not do this, then hopefully the Courts will rule that these acts are illegal and unconstitutional. Opposition from the Congress and/or the Courts could provide a legal basis for resistance. Military and Police could oppose any illegal actions from Trump, especially if directed to do so by the Congress and/or the Courts.

I can imagine a scenario where some Military and some Police could follow Trump's illegal orders, whereas some Military and Police might not. They might clash. We need to establish right now who is loyal to America and the Constitution and who is a threat to the Constitution and to our Democracy like the MAGA Trump Fascists. Hopefully we can get most soldiers and officers on our side and minimize the numbers that are traitors that would support Trump over the Constitution and the Country. We need constitutional loyalists inside and outside of the Military and the Government who will resist an illegal Trump Regime and their illegal unconstitutional actions..

We also need leaders like General Milley on the outside of the Military who can defend our Democracy. As Civilians, we may have a legal right to join in Militias, maybe led by loyal soldiers like Milley, Malcolm Nance, and other patriots like them. It is my hope that Biden can beat Trump at the ballot box and this scenario does not come into play. And even if Trump is re-elected, it is my hope that we can have a peaceful resolution to this problem. But we must prepare to oppose Fascism and save our Democracy , if we have to. We defeated Hitler, we defeated Mussolini, we can and will defeat Trump and his MAGA Fascists, if necessary. I just hope that it is not necessary. But we must prepare now to defend our lives, our Constitution, and our Democracy.

[SoFlaBro]

1. Whoever wants to be a traitor to America,a fucking enemy of America, they can get a fucking traitor's trial & punishment

[shelshaw]

3. Or have their faces blurred

[SoFlaBro]

4. For all the tough talk they do, they sure act like a bunch of frightened children. Fucking cowards and MAGA lowlifes.

[CitizenZero]

13. Well Said

I like your fighting spirit. We need more of that. Thanks for commenting.

[RKP5637]

2. It is always a possibility. I hope the US is not allowing one deranged man to destroy the country. n/t

[Quixote1818]

5. Hopefully the Generals who have taken an oath to the Constitution will tell him to fuck off.

There is the possibility that some Generals or lower down will listen to him and some will not. It would be chaos!

[CitizenZero]

8. Yes

I think that you are right. Some Officers and Soldiers might support Trump. I think that many Officers and Soldiers would oppose Trump and MAGA and would remain loyal to the Country, the Constitution, and our Democracy. But this will not spontaneously happen. We need to start organizing and planning for it right now. General Mark Milley should consider taking command of a nation wide pro-Constitution Militia to supplement those in the Military and Police that are loyal to the Constitution and not loyal to Trump and MAGA Fascism. If we organize well, we can minimize the numbers of those that would defect to the Trump Fascist Regime. Hopefully we can avoid armed conflict, but we should be prepared to win it should it come to that.

[Irish_Dem]

9. Tuberville is still holding some General positions open.

Trump can install his own people in those slots.

[CitizenZero]

6. I Would Add

I would add that we have a lot of good, smart, strong people on our side. We have people like General Mark Milley, patriot soldiers like Malcolm Nance, great Governors like Newsom of California, Whitmer of Michigan, Hochul of New York. If there was domestic conflct or even civil war, former Presidents like Obama and Clinton would certainly not be on the sidelines. And even many Republicans that are anti-Trump would oppose a Trump Fascist Regime. Adam Kinzinger, Liz Cheney, Mitt Romney, even Georg W. Bush would be on our side, I think. So it is our hope to avoid war or conflict, but if war and conflict comes, true Americans will outnumber and oppose fake Americans like Trump and his MAGA Fascist followers. I am confident that if we organize now, we could win and our Democracy will prevail over Fascism.

[bucolic_frolic]

7. If democracy doesn't dictate to Trump, Trump will dictate to democracy.

That will be the question post-election, 2024. Losing the election will not stop Trump. He's been pretty clear about that. Winning the election will not stop Trump from suspending the Constitution with his first day dictatorship, as he has stated.

You can reason out the choices. What will the rest of the government do about it?

[CitizenZero]

10. Also

Another way to oppose a Trump MAGA Fascist takeover is for the State Governors to defend their States and oppose any illegal activities by a Trump Federal Government in those States. New York, Michigan, and California can all oppose any illegal efforts by the Trump Regime to use the US Military illegally in any of these States, to illegally round people up and arrest people en masse. We also need US Military Soldiers and Officers that are loyal to the Country and the Constitution, not the Fascist MAGA Cult of Donald Trump. We need General Milley and others to go on the legitimate Media and spread the message to the US Military- you must be loyal to the Constitution and the Country, not to the Fascist Personality Cult of MAGA Trump.

[roamer65]

17. If Trump steals the election like 2016, there will be secession movements that form instantly.

[roamer65]

18. Certain states are simply not going to stay this time around.

[lees1975]

11. The best way to do this is to keep him from being elected.

Whether that's by criminal conviction or at the ballot box. And frankly, all I see is just talk about him and woe is us if he wins.

If Democracy isn't capable of generating support that actively pursues and puts a stip to this kind of thing, then what good is it to have it?

All this RFK Jr., Jill Stein, Cornell West, No Labels crap has to give way to some serious reality among the left, or we will lose it and never get it back.

Are you listening?

[CitizenZero]

12. I Agree

I agree that the best way to prevent this is to beat Trump at the ballot box. But we must have a well-developed Plan of Resistance should Trump be re-elected. He was elected once before and it could happen again. Hitler was democratically elected and people thought that they could control him. Once elected he started to systematically take more power for himself and his NAZI Regime and he dismantled a democracy and turned it into a Fascist Nazi Authoritarian State. This was done over time, not instantaneously. We may essentially be at the point where Germany was in the 1930s.

We do need to stop Trump now, and the best way to do that is to simply not elect him. But we must prepare for the possibility that he will be re-elected as a contingency plan. If re-elected, I expect that Trump and his fascist MAGA enablers will suspend or violate the Constitution. Which would make the Trump Regime an illegal regime. As Americans, we are not loyal to whoever holds the office of President. We are loyal to the Constitution and our Democracy. Anyone that wants to destroy or subvert the Constitution or our Democracy is essentially an enemy of Democracy and an enemy of the People and of the United States.

[roamer65]

15. We are a multi-ethnic nation, unlike Germany in the 1930's.

We will mirror former Yugoslavia, but much worse.

[CitizenZero]

19. Yes

I think that you are right. Civil War here would be bad, messy, and everywhere. Hopefully we can avoid it.

[lees1975]

22. The fact that he is not yet on trial for crimes he committed January 6th, and elsewhere

is a sign of the weakness of our Democracy. We had an attorney general who dragged his feet in spite of a damning Congressional investigation. That's a huge problem built into our money grabbing legal system. It's too complicated, it takes too much time and someone with some balls needs to be in charge.

What are Democrats doing to pull the party together instead of whining and letting all kinds of chaos run amok?

[ExWhoDoesntCare]

35. OFFS

Garland didn't drag his feet about anything. The man was overworked because he had far more on his plate as AG than this one guy to investigate.

Being the AG is about far more than conducting your pet investigations. The job requires him, more than being a prosecutor, to be a bloody administrator, and, since you obviously didn't notice, the ugly traitor slob decimated the DOJ (and the other depts too). Garland was having to put that department back together again from the ground up. You do realize that was not a job that he could do overnight...right? And you do realize that coming into a shattered department might--JUST MIGHT--make it rather difficult to get decent investigations going...right? You would have been whinging even more if he'd done a half-arse job because he tried to do things on your schedule, rather than one that the DOJ was ready to handle.

So you'll just have to get over how he didn't have the exact priorities you wanted him to have, when you wanted him to have them.

Welcome to reality.

[B.See]

31. "All this RFK Jr., Jill Stein, Cornell West, No Labels crap has to give way to some serious reality..."

^^^THIS!!!!

A vote for ANYONE BUT BIDEN ... even NO vote... is A VOTE FOR TRUMP!

[Captain Zero]

32. RFK jr needs to check into a psych facility

Is it too much to expect his family to do that for the country??

[roamer65]

14. CA, WA, OR, NY and New England will leave first.

The Constitution is a compact between the states. If the compact is broken, so is the union.

[CitizenZero]

16. That Is A Good Point

Thanks for bringing it up. I am lucky enough to live in the Stronghold of New York. We must consider how to defend our people that live in Red States. And even in Dem States like New York, we have a certain amount of Trumpers. So no place is completely immune. but you make a very good point.

[roamer65]

21. Yes, there were unionists in the South and secessionists in the North during the Civil War.

They were the minority in their respective location, therefore had no say in government policy.

[Oneironaut]

23. States can't legally leave the union.

The Supreme Court ruled on this after the Civil War.

[roamer65]

36. That's not permanent.

If Roe can be struck down, so can any other rulings.

…and who says they would even care what an illegitimate court says?

Once the compact is broken, the SCOTUS is illegitimate.

[Oneironaut]

37. I mean, technically, states wouldn't have to listen and could just call themselves a new country.

However, the US wouldn’t recognize them as a new country. Also, as extreme as the new judges are, I doubt they would overturn Texas v. White. It’s a ruling from 1869.

I could be wrong, though. Who knows?

[CitizenZero]

20. Note

I am about to go offline for the night but I will be back tomorrow to respond to anyone else that wants to comment on this thread. So if you comment and I do not respond tonight, I will try to get back to you tomorrow. Thanks to everyone that has participated in this thread so far.

[Captain Zero]

33. Jill Stein needs to be scrutinized for taking Russian money

For her campaign. Isn't the FEC supposed to check on that?

Because we know she did in 2016.

[Oneironaut]

24. An actual shooting war? Very unlikely.

People getting roughed up, or, even killed at protests? Most likely. I could see more civil disorder and mass protests. Also, the economy would go into the toilet.

You might see political instability, extremist groups rising, assassinations, and stuff like that.

Realistically, Trump and Project 2025 won’t be able to do a quarter of what they want. It’s still bad for our country, though, and, people are going to lose their rights.

[Kaleva]

25. Are you advocating we buy AR15 style guns and ammo?

And join a local Meal Team Six made up of like minded members?

What specifically is your plan to defend our Democracy?

My guess is that we'll do what we did while 1/6 unfolded. We'll watch it on TV and express our angst on social media .

[DemocraticPatriot]

28. Some of us may, and some of us may not...

[Kaleva]

29. Kind of hard to coordinate the resistance if everyone is hush hush about their plans

The resistance would be made up of isolated individuals and small groups that would be relatively easy to liquidate.

[DemocraticPatriot]

30. Kind of hard to have any 'plans' that would succeed if you announce

them on a public web-board in advance....

At any rate, I don't have any 'plans'.... but I am paying attention to whatever is happening




Wish I was 30 years younger.... I was a damn good shot with a rifle in my youth,
but I don't own one now....

[Kaleva]

39. I'm concentrating on preparing for catastrophic climate change

That's pretty much a sure bet regardless of what tfg does or doesn't do

Some of us are going to live long enough to see our children and grandchildren face hardships on the scale the Irish did during the Potato Famine or what folks in eastern Africa are dealing with

[DemocraticPatriot]

46. I am sorry about that....

I won't live that long, and have had no children....

lucky for me and them, I guess

[LastLiberal in PalmSprings]

34. We live next to a marine base.

I'm counting on their loyality to their oath of office.

"I, ____________, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."

[Elessar Zappa]

26. I know some about the military

and from what I know, the military as a whole won’t fall to the dark side under Trump. There’s little appetite for fascism among officers and most enlisted men are loyal and will follow their officers. There’s a small minority who could cause problems I suppose but by and large, the military won’t fall. Can’t speak about law enforcement.

[DemocraticPatriot]

27. Lots of names for my 2024 'dead pool'....

[Initech]

38. I've honestly never been more frightened at the direction this country is heading in than I am now.

And it's a terrible feeling to have because we're not heading in a good direction. We're heading in one that embraces fascist authoritarian ideals, and it's all a product of that fucking news network that the GOP loves so much. Seriously, this country would be in a much better place if Fox News didn't exist.

[RKP5637]

41. And Rupert Murdock will take a bow for having started and maintained this mess.He and his

crap have damaged the US in so many ways.

[Initech]

44. And his son Lachlan is taking Fox News in a very Nazi direction.

[RKP5637]

47. Joseph Goebbels reincarnated. n/t

[Emile]

40. Am I the only one who thinks it is taking too long to put Trump in jail?

[Initech]

45. Oh it should have been done the week after January 6th.

The fact that it's taken this long and the media gave him back the megaphone that he spews bile and garbage with everyday, is absolutely sickening and infuriating.

[WarGamer]

42. Good movie script. Reality? Won't happen.

[Skittles]

43. BRING IT ON

WE'LL BEAT THEIR ASS AGAIN