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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsThe world has declared that Israel is committing genocide
Nearly 20,000 dead Palestinians.
There will be consequences and it won’t only be Bibi.
Now the world is seeing what we said was happening weeks ago.
Nothing justifies this response.
Stop the war crimes. Stop supporting genocide.
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tritsofme
(19,766 posts)
RAB910
(4,030 posts)A majority of 153 nations voted for the ceasefire resolution in the General Assembly’s emergency special session Tuesday, while 10 voted against and 23 abstained.
TexasDem69
(2,317 posts)Include the U.S. (led by our President) and our great allies Germany and the UK. I join President Biden in supporting Israel. I would think every Democrat does.
enid602
(9,608 posts)Germany and the UK voted to abstain. Not even Germany, who caused the Holocaust would vote against the ceasefire. And Israel’s treatment of Palestine is almost underwater in US polls. Would be if not for Evangelicals, who are hoping for the second coming.
emulatorloo
(46,135 posts)of terrorism on October 7th.
Big Blue Marble
(5,666 posts)and much more aid delivered to the desperate starving people.
Do you agree with Biden?
womanofthehills
(10,686 posts)State Department bypasses Congress to send thousands of munitions to Israel.
“The US State Department transmitted an emergency declaration to lawmakers late Friday night for the sale of thousands of munitions to Israel, the agency announced, bypassing the standard 20-day period that congressional committees are typically afforded to review such a sale.”
“Unlike security assistance to Ukraine, where the US details types of weapons and capabilities, the shipments to Israel have been far more discreet, with the Defense Department rarely acknowledging or announcing what types of weapons or equipment it is sending.”
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/state-department-bypasses-congress-to-send-thousands-of-munitions-to-israel/ar-AA1ldJ5S
Trueblue1968
(19,056 posts)
lapucelle
(20,931 posts)womanofthehills
(10,686 posts)Thinking of all the horrific suffering of the kids of Gaza. So many sad images of injured kids are on our phones each day - it’s hard not to be sad when you see images of babies not yet old enough to take their first steps with amputated legs, kids severely burned, a little 5 yr old girl crying looking at her amputated arm, little boys with no legs saying they had planned to be athletes, blind kids, etc
When I was younger, I worked at Carrie Tingley children’s ortho hospital in Albuquerque . At one point, we had two teen boys who both lost both legs from jumping trains. Both were so sad telling me girls were not interested in them any more. Our lives are hard enough, can you imagine starting out your life with no legs. Anytime I get sad, I remind myself stuff like - I have my legs, I’m not in a hospital - but I feel an all over sadness for these children who if they live will have very difficult lives. Many have been the only survivor in their family. Severely injured with no family - it’s so cruel.
EX500rider
(12,132 posts)The children of Syria, Yemen, Ukraine, Myanmar, Sudan, etc weren't a problem? Just Gaza? That seems strange to me, YMMV
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ongoing_armed_conflicts
Coventina
(29,078 posts)Which is why I protested that war early and often.
There is way more justification for Gaza than there ever was for Iraq.
RAB910
(4,030 posts)Countries that voted against the resolution: Austria, Czech Republic, Guatemala, Israel, Liberia, Micronesia, Nauru, Papua New Guinea, Paraguay, United States.
lapucelle
(20,931 posts)Genocide is a crime of intent. It is Hamas that has announced its genocidal intent to the world.
Article II of the Genocide Convention contains a narrow definition of the crime of genocide, which includes two main elements:
A mental element: the "intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such"; and
A physical element, which includes the following five acts, enumerated exhaustively:
Killing members of the group
Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group
Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part
Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group
Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group
The intent is the most difficult element to determine. To constitute genocide, there must be a proven intent on the part of perpetrators to physically destroy a national, ethnical, racial or religious group. Cultural destruction does not suffice, nor does an intention to simply disperse a group. It is this special intent, or dolus specialis, that makes the crime of genocide so unique.
https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/genocide.shtml
enid602
(9,608 posts)I hope we haven’t become so jaded that we fail to protest the killings, bombardments and blockades just because they collectively don’t fall under a very legalistic definition of genocide. I certainly hope Israel does not use this low bar to set policy.
LeftInTX
(34,013 posts)Sudan's war passed 6 months, with much of the world consumed by other conflicts
enid602
(9,608 posts)The war in Darfur has been going strong since 2003. That NPR article makes it sound as if it’s a new war. It’s a pretty good example of genocide, though.
lapucelle
(20,931 posts)then it may well be that the accusations being lobbed against Israel are, at the very least, hyperbolic and inaccurate.
I hope that we haven't become so narrative-driven that we are willing to accept that a resolution demanding a ceasefire is, in fact, a declaration of genocide.
As for Israel having "set a low bar", there would be no war if Hamas had not started it and, as the Biden administration has stated, Israel is defending against a clearly articulated genocidal attack and continued threat.
The real question is why some are so willing to set no bar whatsoever for Hamas.
lapucelle
(20,931 posts)
Butterflylady
(4,584 posts)20,000 dead mostly women and children, what would you call it then.
Coventina
(29,078 posts)
CaliforniaPeggy
(156,014 posts)
revmclaren
(2,613 posts)Fixed it.
Earth-shine
(4,044 posts)There, fixed it for you.
If it looks like genocide, it probably is.
Tomconroy
(7,611 posts)Endless number of equally inaccurate posts multiple times a day
revmclaren
(2,613 posts)An anti Israel post goes up somewhere
on the internet and poof...here it is.
Of course known genocides are occurring all over the world but nary a post about them.
Hmmm.
enid602
(9,608 posts)Unfortunately this is very true. But the US is financing this one, and we’ll catch shit for it.
brush
(61,033 posts)What's a good description of it?
revmclaren
(2,613 posts)by ordinary people, and definitely not anonymous posters on a message board.
There are very specific courts for this.
brush
(61,033 posts)Mostly women and children.
It's why it's to be avoided.
Sometimes people dont want simple answers. If you want to believe something else, so be it.
Changes nothing.
Goodnight.
brush
(61,033 posts)Response to revmclaren (Reply #112)
Big Blue Marble This message was self-deleted by its author.
limbicnuminousity
(1,414 posts)Simple things get complicated when fear runs rampant.
agingdem
(8,755 posts)Last edited Fri Dec 15, 2023, 12:14 PM - Edit history (1)
Hamas invaded Israel...beheaded babies, raped and mutilated women, tortured and dismembered children as their parents watched before killing the parents, set fire to the elderly and disabled, slaughtered music festival goers, and took over 200 Israelis hostage...Hamas provoked, Israel retaliated...
Hamas knew Israel would strike back with a vengeance, killing thousands of Gazans...Gazans who cheered Hamas butchery/sheltered Hamas/allowed Hamas to stockpile weapons in tunnels under their schools, hospitals, mosques/acted as human shields for Hamas/pretended not to notice Hamas diverting international aid into their own pockets while they lived in poverty...
Hamas sacrificed their fellow Palestinians without remorse, anointing the dead "martyrs" in their never-ending quest to annihilate Israel and Jews..
Israel did not start this war, Israel did not want this war but war it is, and the innocent, be they Israeli or Palestinian, will die...and that's a fact...
Butterflylady
(4,584 posts)But Netanyahu and his war cabinet did and now he has his chance to get rid of Palestinians.
agingdem
(8,755 posts)Bibi was distracted by his need to screw with the judiciary to avoid his own prosecution, so much so, he ignored the his own intelligence of an imminent attack..
and it's Hamas and the Palestinians who chant "From the River to the Sea" on their barbarian quest to wipe Israel and the Jewish people off the face of the earth...
revmclaren
(2,613 posts)1000+ DUers stating it it is genocide still wouldn't make it so.
Genocide isnt decided by anonymous posters on the internet or even well known celebrities and pontiff's.
Earth-shine
(4,044 posts)
You are entitled to your opinion.
revmclaren
(2,613 posts)Famous saying:
Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'
Isaac Asimov
Earth-shine
(4,044 posts)Your post is impertinent, irrelevant, and reeks of personal belief and anti-intellectualism.
I will respond to you no further.
revmclaren
(2,613 posts)Sea lions...
Bye.
emulatorloo
(46,135 posts)
Response to Earth-shine (Reply #39)
emulatorloo This message was self-deleted by its author.
Big Blue Marble
(5,666 posts)are calling this assault on Gaza genocide. They are in a far better place to judge what is
and what is not genocide, better than you, revmclaren and better than DU'ers.
revmclaren
(2,613 posts)By your own statement, you have just said that no DUer can say what is genocide so please be sure to tell this to all the posters on DU saying Israel is committing genocide, including you.
Also, you do know that calling out a DUer by name in a post is a big no no right?
Butterflylady
(4,584 posts)Calling a DUer by his/her username is a no no. I've seen many posts that do that.
revmclaren
(2,613 posts)I would like to hear their opinion.
And singling out a poster in an OP can be considered flaming depending on the circumstance.
PS...See post 99
Butterflylady
(4,584 posts)revmclaren
(2,613 posts)Facts are facts. Personal opinion is not fact.
You have been here since 2017. You have to know the rules about calling someone out by name.
If you are sure of your 'facts', ask EarlG.
There is contact info on the main page.
The thread number...99...is a post by a longtime DUer. They know the rules very well.
Have a great day.
LeftInTX
(34,013 posts)EX500rider
(12,132 posts)
malaise
(292,188 posts)The world will not be silenced.
edisdead
(3,396 posts)TheKentuckian
(26,314 posts)in order to prep the field for the real McCoy.
Earth-shine
(4,044 posts)
Cuthbert Allgood
(5,339 posts)That's genocide.
Coventina
(29,078 posts)Can you provide a link?
edisdead
(3,396 posts)When and where did he say this?
Big Blue Marble
(5,666 posts)The risk in Gaza is high. With little food and water. almost no medical care. People
are dying for lack of medicine. With 85% of their housing gone. the term
is domicide and the environmental devastation, experts are asking if
Gaza will even be habitable for decades.
100's of thousands of wmen and children are living in makeshift tents of plastic sheeting
which fall apart in the wind. Many have no winter clothes as temperatures drop and the
rainy season is occurring. Raw sewage and uncollected garbage are running in the streets
putting everyone at risk for disease.
Genocide is occurring; it just takes a while.
treestar
(82,383 posts)Situations. If I argue Israel is not then we did not commit genocide against American Indians either. But in order to state that, the term was stretched so as not to limit it to camps and straight up killing.
edisdead
(3,396 posts)Israel has an enemy that HAS vowed to and has explicitly stated that they wish to engage in genocide. They have also launched attacks and killed many Israelis.
It is awful that Palestinians are dying in the counter. But through all of this Hamas has not agreed to a cease fire and has said multiple times that they will continue with Oct 7th type of attacks. What should Israel do? Continue to let their people die?
There is no easy solution to any of this and frankly people saying Israel should just deal with future Oct 7th’s is unreasonable. But genocide does have a definition and a meaning. And this isn’t genocide. It may be an outsized response against an enemy that hides amongst its civilians but it is not genocide.
treestar
(82,383 posts)Big Blue Marble
(5,666 posts)have openly stated their intent of genocide.
Chakaconcarne
(2,770 posts)Fixed it.
Goddessartist
(2,176 posts)Those that deny what they're seeing with their own eyes are on the wrong side of Humanity.
malaise
(292,188 posts)Truth will out
LetMyPeopleVote
(174,210 posts)
Think. Again.
(22,456 posts)Edit to add:
One thing is for certain, the last couple of months have shown quite a few DUer's true colors.
Tomconroy
(7,611 posts)
Cha
(316,421 posts)revmclaren
(2,613 posts)I wonder how many will continue posting when all is said and done or how many will disappear into the woodwork.
So bookmarking for for future curiosity.
sheshe2
(95,547 posts)Think again because it is not a good look on DU.
8. Thank you, malaise.
Reply to Think. Again. (Reply #8)
Thu Dec 14, 2023, 04:11 PM
Edit to add:
One thing is for certain, the last couple of months have shown quite a few DUer's true colors.
We have seen Duer's true colors? Please explain that statement, because you are clearly walking a line and calling out Democrats on a Democratic board. Explain your comment.
We can agree to disagree, however calling out DUers is a no no here.
Big Blue Marble
(5,666 posts)Somehow I thought liberals and Democrats were humanitarians and cared for the rights
of all people. I thought they were against racism in all forms. Shocked that I am wrong.
Think. Again.
(22,456 posts)...but I keep reminding myself that DU is open to the public to join, not just actual Democrats.
revmclaren
(2,613 posts)for someone here since May.
Essentially calling other DUers trolls and disrupters...
Wow.
It's become a different place here since April.
Just coincidence I guess.
Think. Again.
(22,456 posts)...widely acknowledged, even by oldtimers, over and over again, that DU attracts trolls looking to disrupt and divide.
And thank you for the warm welcome, it's probably the best way to build the Democratic party!
MorbidButterflyTat
(4,094 posts)Enlightening.
Tomconroy
(7,611 posts)As usual.
KPN
(17,116 posts) Tomconroy
(7,611 posts)
BuddhaGirl
(3,695 posts)"Exclusive: Nearly half of the Israeli munitions dropped on Gaza are imprecise ‘dumb bombs,’ US intelligence assessment finds"
By Natasha Bertrand and Katie Bo Lillis, CNN
CNN
—
"Nearly half of the air-to-ground munitions that Israel has used in Gaza in its war with Hamas since October 7 have been unguided, otherwise known as “dumb bombs,” according to a new US intelligence assessment.
The assessment, compiled by the Office of the Director of National Intelligence and described to CNN by three sources who have seen it, says that about 40-45% of the 29,000 air-to-ground munitions Israel has used have been unguided. The rest have been precision-guided munitions, the assessment says.
Unguided munitions are typically less precise and can pose a greater threat to civilians, especially in such a densely populated area like Gaza. The rate at which Israel is using the dumb bombs may be contributing to the soaring civilian death toll.
https://edition.cnn.com/2023/12/13/politics/intelligence-assessment-dumb-bombs-israel-gaza/index.html
We see what's happening and it's horrific. 
Tomconroy
(7,611 posts)In their inventory. Smart guided bombs are very expensive in comparison.
I don't know how many guided bombs Israel has. Obviously they don't want to deplete their entire inventory with Hezbolla and Iran waiting in the wings.
BuddhaGirl
(3,695 posts)their entire inventory..."
Sure, better that more innocents die, right? 
From the article:
"But experts told CNN that if Israel is using unguided munitions at the rate the US believes they are, that undercuts the Israeli claim that they are trying to minimize civilian casualties."
Tomconroy
(7,611 posts)of killing civilians.
AloeVera
(3,944 posts)If you are going to be bombing a densely populated urban area, which you really shouldn't do in the first place, the least you can do is use your best bombs to minimize civilian casualties. Dont you think?
Or is it more important to kill Hezbollah fighters than save Palestinian lives?
Maybe their lives literally aren't worth the price of smart bombs - that's the message coming through loud and clear.
Tomconroy
(7,611 posts)Certainty the use of smart bombs would make any difference.
You need far more information about each individual instance of bombing and targeting to make such a claim.
AloeVera
(3,944 posts)Here is what the experts in the article said, in case you missed it.
...
It’s bad enough to be using the weapons when they are precisely hitting their targets. It is a massive civilian harm problem if they do not have that accuracy, and if you can’t even give a benefit of the doubt that that the weapon is actually landing where the Israeli forces intended to,” Castner added.
....
Dumb bombs or unguided munitions miss their targets and smart ones do not. They are meant to be used in more open areas. If they are used in urban areas, it is by definition indiscriminate bombing of civilians.
Tomconroy
(7,611 posts)The judgments you are making.
You also omitted to quote the following from the CNN story:
"A US official told CNN that the US believes that the Israeli military is using the dumb bombs in conjunction with a tactic called “dive bombing,” or dropping a bomb while diving steeply in a fighter jet, which the official said makes the bombs more precise because it gets it closer to its target. The official said the US believes that an unguided munition dropped via dive-bombing is similarly precise to a guided munition."
It may be that the IDF actions are hastening an end to the war and bringing an end to civilian casualties more quickly.
This is what happened at Hiroshima. The use of The Bomb saved not only US livesbut also Japanese lives which would have been immense if the US had to invade Japan.
But you probably think that was a war crime too.
It's also useful to remember that after the devastation of Japanese and German cities in WW II and the utter defeat of their militaries, both countries ceased being war criminal, imperialist powers.
AloeVera
(3,944 posts)And that it will bring peace.
The dead and ruins are peaceful indeed.
Sorry. I cannot for the life of me understand being able to rationalize it that way.
AloeVera
(3,944 posts)"The dead and ruins are peaceful indeed."
But their surviving friends, relatives... not so much.
Especially when they already had a 75-year long beef with you.
Big Blue Marble
(5,666 posts)It is more important to avoid human death and injury than to worry about depleting
your inventory or saving money. The US will not let Israel run out of bombs; never worry.
Your arguments just do not hold up.
Edited to add: The use of these bombs many be a war crime.
"The revelation almost half of all bombs dropped on Gaza by Israel are unguided dumb bombs completely undercuts their claim of minimizing civilian harm," said a former U.N. war crimes investigator.
snip
Israel's frequent use of "dumb bombs" in Gaza further refutes the Netanyahu government's claim that it is waging war on Hamas and not the entire population of Gaza.
Adil Haque, a professor at Rutgers Law, noted on social media that "the use of inaccurate weapons, with a large destructive radius, in populated areas, may constitute an indiscriminate attack under [international humanitarian law], and the war crime of attacking civilians under the [International Criminal Court] Statute."
"Alternatively, the use of such weapons could constitute a disproportionate attack, since inaccuracy increases the harm to civilians which may be expected, while reducing the military advantage anticipated," Haque added. "This could also constitute a war crime under the ICC Statute."
https://www.commondreams.org/news/israel-dumb-bombs
AloeVera
(3,944 posts)Dumb-bombing urban areas really sends the message those civilian lives are not worth the price of your smart bombs. And shows that you really are not as interested in protecting civilians as you claim you are.
Tomconroy
(7,611 posts)Deal of significance to anyone trained as a lawyer.
Although you assume the good professor is declaring the use of dumb bombs to be a war crime, the professor is actually saying "I basically have no idea what's going on here".
Response to malaise (Original post)
tenderfoot This message was self-deleted by its author.
TwilightZone
(28,836 posts)One can object to the misuse of a word and simultaneously object to the circumstances that prompted that misuse.
Referring to DUers as "blood thirsters", on the other hand, simply for pointing out that a word was misused, is pretty ridiculous and offensive.
revmclaren
(2,613 posts)10. Now now Malaise, you're upsetting the blood thirsters
How dare you call out many DUers for not supporting yours and others over the top and many times unsubstantiated posts such as this post.
It is completely uncalled for and Slanderous.
Alpeduez21
(2,007 posts)revmclaren
(2,613 posts)about fellow DUers.
revmclaren
(2,613 posts) 
madaboutharry
(42,025 posts)In a very old trope kind of way.
A pity only some can see it.
sarisataka
(22,202 posts)Or by blood thirst are you referring to what is usually called blood libel.
Either is disgusting but I am genuinely curious which or both?
revmclaren
(2,613 posts)Last edited Fri Dec 15, 2023, 08:37 PM - Edit history (1)
Internet is forever though.
Edited to add screen shot of email recieved from poster...
[url=https://ibb.co/8dP1zb2][img]
[/img][/url]
revmclaren
(2,613 posts)Reported directly from my DU mail.
Here is the screen shot...
https://ibb.co/8dP1zb2
sarisataka
(22,202 posts) revmclaren
(2,613 posts)was back in 2016 from a now PPRed member who scampered off to Jackpine radicals.
Interesting coincidence.
Chainfire
(17,757 posts)
edhopper
(37,016 posts)there are many ways to describe them. But genocide is not one of them.
Less than 1% of a population is not genocide.
And it is particularly offensive when charging the Jewish people with it, who lost close to 30% of their population in the Holocaust and whose numbers have still not recovered.
Calling this genocide dilutes the word.
sarisataka
(22,202 posts)Has the world said what actions they are going to take? Or will it be about as much action as the genocides that have been going for years in China, Myanmar and Sudan?
question everything
(51,616 posts)
sarisataka
(22,202 posts)between this "genocide" and the others in the world.
debm55
(54,960 posts)Bernardo de La Paz
(60,320 posts)brush
(61,033 posts)
Initech
(107,240 posts)I don't know why people aren't seeing through their bullshit. 
Coventina
(29,078 posts)
CincyDem
(7,303 posts)I’ve yet to hear anyone disheartened by all the death and destruction in Gaza offer any kind of viable alternative other than demanding Israeli capitulation to terrorist demands.
At some point, Hamas will reach a point where releasing the hostages serves their propaganda purposes. Unfortunately we’re not there yet.
Coventina
(29,078 posts)Hamas started this war.
Hamas could stop it, but they won't.
Lazy thinkers are just buying into Hamas' strategy.
onecaliberal
(36,594 posts)In their own country and their policy? Oh wait…
Coventina
(29,078 posts)Maybe they are protesting Netanyahu - certainly a worthy cause.
Maybe they are dedicated pacifists - that's certainly a worthy philosophical standpoint.
My comments were directed at discussions on this board that never seem to allow Israel to defend itself.
And I'll add this: I protested against the Iraq war early and often. What we did in Iraq was illegal from start to finish.
I despise Netanyahu on every level, but in comparison to Iraq, well, he has way more justification than Bush ever did.
onecaliberal
(36,594 posts)I’ve seen lots of comments about the disproportionate response and purposeful bombing of civilians. Which is being reported by the Red Cross. I believe them.
Coventina
(29,078 posts)Not after Katrina, and the way they allowed black people to drown.
Disproportionate response, um no. Not after what Hamas did, there is no such thing. Hamas is purposely maximizing the death of civilians in this conflict, not Israel.
On edit: Don't fall for the Hamas strategy.
onecaliberal
(36,594 posts)I’m for innocent women and children, no matter where they live. Got it! I see where you stand on that. I’m done with this conversation.
Coventina
(29,078 posts)Hamas started this.
So many people seem to have forgotten that.
onecaliberal
(36,594 posts)Try reading my words and stop attributing your own thoughts to me.
Coventina
(29,078 posts)And to ensure that Hamas is not able to ever attack again?
This is the piece of the puzzle all the people mad at Israel leave out.
Please keep in mind that
A) Previous cease-fires were all broken by Hamas
and
B) Hamas has ended negotiations about future hostage releases.
debm55
(54,960 posts)Coventina
(29,078 posts)They can yell and scream and insult, but have nothing constructive to add.
It's almost as if they just want to air their......dislike.......or something.
Bleacher Creature
(11,504 posts)Well said.
Coventina
(29,078 posts)questionseverything
(11,516 posts)Instead of indiscriminately bombing civilians no one would have a problem
That’s the simple answer, get the guys that did it, not everyone that lives near them
Coventina
(29,078 posts)Israel has no jurisdiction?
TheKentuckian
(26,314 posts)Otherwise the suffering of women and children in greater numbers elsewhere doesn't matter much.
TexasDem69
(2,317 posts)You concede Israel can defend itself then argue that its defense is somehow disproportionate, without proposing any alternative at all. Israel was attacked by thousands of child-murdering, rapist cowards, who are hiding in hospitals and schools, and you condemn Israel for attempting to root out those cowards.
Hamas could end this today—release the hostages, surrender all the individuals who planned or participated in October 7. It’s not complicated or controversial, unless you support Hamas’ goals.
That’s the solution that every country, aid organization and thinking person should advocate for, not some bullshit ceasefire that leaves Israeli citizens in the hands of their kidnappers and child-murderers free to kill again.
AloeVera
(3,944 posts)Please tell me how on earth the indiscriminate dumb-bombing of civilians is self-defense? What is Israel defending itself from, Palestinian children, women, all men? It appears so.
The hard reality that most in the world can see is that Israel is not just rooting out those cowards as you put it, but indiscriminately killing civilians it falsely claims to be doing its utmost to protect.
LeftInTX
(34,013 posts)defending itself.
Texas Democratic Party has written an excellent bilateral ceasefire resolution that also condemns Hamas and demands return of the hostages etc.
TheKentuckian
(26,314 posts)and Netanyahu as opposition to eliminating Hamas and Hezbollah.
Hell, some are angry as hornets that the IDF isn't taking it to Hezbollah sufficiently and clearing then out seriously.
CincyDem
(7,303 posts)I actually think it’s a rational human response to what’s going on combined with a subconscious knowledge that talking to Hamas or extolling Hamas to do the right thing is equivalent to talking to a goldfish. Hamas doesn’t care and the entire world knows it.
They’re not lazy thinkers…they’re desperate thinkers, pushing where the can vs where they should.
TheKentuckian
(26,314 posts)Unreasoning, reactionary, emotion driven, and generally illogical.
All real world considerations just cul de sac at the children.
Understandable at a gut and heart level but the pretense that impunity for Hamas is in any way remotely sane says that rationality is out the window.
What passes for being thoughtful is avoiding obvious real world considerations and/or demanding appeasement to actual surrender on top of the absolute impunity.
The top shelf stuff tosses magic beans to sprout.
Supporting and rewarding this evil is cancerous. Civilization loses by default.
The espoused conceit is that wanton barbary combined with a willingness to spend every last drop of your own people's blood is the golden ticket.
What passes for a rationale is that our very humanity dictates that the innocent be protected at all costs so if such actors insist in such behavior the only choice is to absorb whatever than dish out and to find "peace" via appeasement of the terrorist.
For the children.
...supposedly.
In reality, eye to eye the percentage that would mutter a word about anything that breathes, crawls, flies, swims, walks, or cries is going to be very low.
I would give small odds of getting to 15% in anything like the heat of the moment and just as likely if not more so for the "bloodthirsty" to be among that sliver.
Nearly infinitely full of shit.
Our reaction to forever aggression, much less the most vile depravity inflicted on kids at a festival to terrorize up close and personal would be absolutely off the meter.
It has been demonstrated repeatedly and consistently.
We all know good and well the reaction to a proportionally far smaller attack and we didn't even worry about going after the actual perpetrators and I don't mean the exact guys, I mean at all. Not even at all, in any way.
No, not even like a year and a half later with some time to cool the wraftful rage factor a tad.
Or the millions more we obliterated without so much as a punch thrown in our general direction for fear of Domino theory or just for some black gold all across the world over decades.
All the self righteous preening is either delusion or lies and probably delusional lies.
CincyDem
(7,303 posts)There's a lot to drink in there so I'm just gonna let this one mellow for a while. Sorry if I'm in the slow lane - it's late here.
AloeVera
(3,944 posts)Stop the indiscriminate dumb-bombing of civilians. Stop the bombing period.
The bombing is not for Hamas, they are in the tunnels hiding, right? The bombing is for the civilians. That is a war crime.
Israel needs to stop the war crimes. Period.
Coventina
(29,078 posts)Your proposed solution does not at all address how Israel eliminates Hamas to ensure the massacres of 10/7 do not happen again.
AloeVera
(3,944 posts)Stop dumb-bombing civilians.
Don't stoop to terrorism and war-crimes to fight terrorism.
I am not a military expert so I can't give advice on how Israel should eliminate Hamas. All I know is that risking mass death from starvation and disease while killing civilians with the bombing is not a morally or legally defensible way to wage war.
Putting a pause on this war will give a chance for cooler, saner heads to prevail and to come up with a better strategy for the intended goal.
With Israel as an actual occupying force now, with an exponentially larger fighting force and exponentially superior equipment and hardware, Hamas is already knee-capped and weak. I'm trying to understand how they are still a threat to Israel from a military viewpoint in the event of a ceasefire for humanitarian purposes. At present I don't see it.
I do see an urgent need for a ceasefire for the purpose of delivering life-saving aid.
The immediate threat is to Palestinian lives, not Israeli lives. Generally immediate, real threats are addressed before possible future ones when it comes to saving lives.
Coventina
(29,078 posts)assuming that they have not been murdered, anyway.
Their lives are most definitely in danger.
Putting a pause on the war strengthens Hamas.
They are still staging attacks, so they are most definitely still a threat to Israeli soldiers and citizens.
You should know all this if you've been following the news stories.
Hamas is using Palestinians as human shields. THEY are the ones committing the war crimes.
They started this with the goal of killing as much as possible, on both sides.
AloeVera
(3,944 posts)The only chance the hostages will be released is during a ceasefire. JUST LIKE THE LAST TIME.
Listen to their relatives arguing for just that.
The news stories are all based on what the
iDF says. While I don't doubt they are attacked as they have suffered casualties, I doubt anything else they say about these attacks.
I saw an absolutely horrifying video of torture of naked prisoners by the IDF. It was so bad I thought it must be fake but then I found it confirmed on NBC in November. I couldn't stomach it. I am not going to believe anything from the IDF unless verified independently which of course is impossible given the deliberate black-outs and scarcity of journalists in Gaza.
And the human shields trope is really just a pretext for indiscriminate bombing. Now with the use of dumb bombs coming to light, that pretext is being revealed for what it is.
Coventina
(29,078 posts)Hamas has done to create the situation and just blame Israel for all of it?
Because that's what I'm hearing from you.
You're just going to disregard the fact that:
1. Hamas started this
2. Hamas was the one that deliberately raped, tortured, mutilated and murdered non-combatant men, women and children. From Grandmothers to tiny babies.
3. That they stated they did this because they want to murder every Jew in existence.
4. That they said the attacks will continue until every Jew is murdered.
5. They called for attacks on Jews WORLDWIDE, which are HAPPENING
WAR IS HELL, which is why it is to be avoided, but I guess Israel is expected to just wait to have all their citizens butchered.
Hamas can end this any time they want. THEY DON"T WANT TO!!!!!!
Any person who blames Israel is playing into their hand.
AloeVera
(3,944 posts)Of a civilized world with rules in which neither the October 7th attacks nor the type of war carried out now, are legal or acceptable.
I personally don't believe in an eye for an eye.
In the words of a man I consider moral and humanitarian, "it is forbidden to respond to terrorism with terrorism".
I also believe in taking responsibility for your actions, regardless of what the other side has done to you first. Using October 7th to justify any and all of your own actions that also slaughter innocents is not something I can agree with.
If it were simply about eliminating Hamas I would have no problem with that. But as is becoming more apparent even to many of Israel's staunchest supporters, Israel is using this opportunity to carry out collective punishment and dispossession of Palestinians with the ultimate goal of making Gaza so unlivable they will need to leave to survive.
All those things are war crimes and crimes against humanity. Nobody signed up for that. I'm sure the U.S. didn't either.
It's tragic that some people still don't understand that Israel's actions are fuelling the increase in anti-semitism in those already anti-semitic. For others, it's confirming a view that Israel has always treated the Palestinians badly and the occupation and its evils must end. Watch now for a real push from the international community for a solution, the silver lining in all this hopefully.
Coventina
(29,078 posts)It is NOT Israel's fault that Hamas is using Palestinians as their human shields.
To blame them for that is victim blaming.
Using human shields is a war crime. HAMAS is guilty of war crimes and crimes against humanity, NOT ISRAEL!
This has been Hamas' strategy all along, "They don't dare wipe us out because the cost will be too high."
And people are now saying they are exactly right.
Wow.
AloeVera
(3,944 posts)So Israel decided to prove them wrong by showing NO Price is too high for wiping out Hamas. Those human shields are expendable obviously.
But like I said, the human shield trope is not a believable explanation for the massive scale of the destruction. It's a pretext for consumption by the gullible or willfully blind and a fortuitous happenstance for those wanting to inflict maximum damage and collective punishment.
No one said Israel should just take it. In fact the whole Western world lined up to support Israel, essentially giving them carte blanche which was their mistake. We see the results of that and we are saying no, the Palestinians should no longer just take it.
Coventina
(29,078 posts)It is HAMAS that considers Palestinian lives expendable.
More victim blaming........
AloeVera
(3,944 posts)Where would I find a source for that? Is it somewhere in the fanatical, exaggerated ramblings by their leaders after October 7th or is it in their charter or something?
Coventina
(29,078 posts)AloeVera
(3,944 posts)Ah the FDD, Trump's advisory, militaristic "think tank" funded by right-wing billionaires that helped him nearly set the Middle East on fire.
I read the article in the same way I read Fox or Breitbart, not to torment myself but to keep track of the other side's propaganda, er "thinking". I'm well-versed now in the type of arguments/rhetoric, and leaps of logic, cherry picking without context etc. etc they use to bamboozle their audience.
There are no bomb shelters in existence that will protect against JDAMs and other high-explosive, 2000 lbs.bombs. Unlike Israeli shelters that are good enough against the few home-made Qassam rockets that get past the Iron Dome.
Willing to ignore that illogic for a moment'; there are other issues like matter of the blockade of construction materials, Israeli approval for building them (an absurdity), and the matter of tunding for such a mega-project. Oh and the availability of land. Oh and...
But don't let pesky facts get in the way of good propaganda.
Palestinians do not receive $ 3.8 billion a year from the U.S. to build their own Iron Domes, buy high-end military toys and buikd a huge military complex. They get barely enough to eat.
As for why they stayed in the North, Palestinians know once they leave their land there is no right of return for them', as there won't be now, and stood their ground against another Naqba. I would be happy to be wrong on this of course but I fear they were right.
So thanks for the article but I see no "proof" there that Hamas has STATED their intention to use human shields as you claimed.
Coventina
(29,078 posts)FDD is right-leaning, I'll give you that, but it has nothing to do with Trump. Where on earth are you getting that?!?!?!
Here's a link to the Guardian, quoting Hamas leaders:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/30/human-shield-israel-claim-hamas-command-centre-under-hospital-palestinian-civilian-gaza-city
Response to Coventina (Reply #204)
debm55 This message was self-deleted by its author.
AloeVera
(3,944 posts)Of course you mean me and others with similar opinions. Isn't "let's blame the Jew game" describing someone who is anti-semitic?
You should be more bold in your accusations, no beating around the bush. But if you are going to accuse someone of being anti-semitic, you'll want to make sure you can back that up as that's a pretty serious charge.
LeftInTX
(34,013 posts)It isn't proportion because Israel has the Iron Dome interceptor. But there have been about 10 injuries from Hamas rockets in Israel in the last week.
sarisataka
(22,202 posts)that Israel has chosen to invest in protection of civilians whereas Hamas has done nothing for its people.
In a strange twist, it is an accusation against Israel
Coventina
(29,078 posts)Wow.
I hate my species.
Humankind refuses any opportunity to learn and do better.
sarisataka
(22,202 posts)seventy-eight years ago are revealed to be just as common and strong.
I fear maybe more so than then.
TheKentuckian
(26,314 posts)Slipped under the rocks but then only somewhat.
I feel the same about the Birkenstocks Charlottesville mob as the original version but with greater disappointment and disgust.
AloeVera
(3,944 posts)Cuthbert Allgood
(5,339 posts)Maybe they could start working on sorting out those policies and stop giving Hamas a reason to exist.
And if the way to get rid of Hamas is to kill hundreds of thousands of civilians, then they better not be shocked when doing so creates Hamas 2.0.
Developed countries can do better than this. Israel can do better than this. And don't ask me what they could do. I teach English and communication. There are people well versed in policy who can answer that better than I.
Coventina
(29,078 posts)That's super convenient.
But, I do want to ask you a point of clarification: Are you saying that illegal settlements by Israel is what created Hamas 1.0?
Cuthbert Allgood
(5,339 posts)I don't have the answer, but there has to be more answers than just bomb the fuck out of them.
Coventina
(29,078 posts)
Amishman
(5,911 posts)First, no one is excluding members of Hamas killed.
Second, what is the source for that number? President Biden has even openly expressed doubt of the official numbers from the Gaza ministry of health.
Third, fuck Hamas. They started this by attacking Israel. They then broke the ceasefire. They hide among and under civilian targets.
There can be no peace as long as Hamas exists. The Palestinian people need to stop sheltering and supporting Hamas.
AloeVera
(3,944 posts)Some of them were still alive for a while I'm sure but no way to get them out. Rest assured they are dead now.
For those doubting the numbers, they could study some recent aerial or satellite pictures of Gaza, that might spur some certainty.
The numbers I'm afraid, will be higher. A senior U.S. official has claimed as much.
Mountainguy
(2,145 posts)They might as well say "according to Hamas." If you believe them, every person killed in Gaza is an innocent woman or child. Apparently no Hamas militant has been harmed.
LeftInTX
(34,013 posts)It has faux resolutions, outrage, and Iranian proxies causing problems.
Mostly it's sabre rattling, babbling and making noise about Israel.
If Israel's enemies were serious.......
EX500rider
(12,132 posts)
Sky Jewels
(9,148 posts)Hundreds of thousands were killed in our names. And for what? Corporate profits.
Richard D
(10,018 posts). . . this war is happening because of Hamas. They started it, and they can end it today by releasing the hostages and surrendering,
Why this is such a hard concept for otherwise intelligent people to grasp, I do not know. But is can only assume there is conscious or unconscious antisemitism involved.
LonePirate
(14,327 posts)I see calls to stop the bombing being conducted by Israel; but I never see similar calls for Hamas to do what they can to stop the bombing. Is there some large pool of people now supporting Hamas despite them triggering this response from Israel due to the actions on October 7?
I believe Israel should stop the bombing. I also believe Hamas should release all hostages and surrender. Seems like I am one of the very few who believe both of those things.
Richard D
(10,018 posts). . . and I don't mean Israel or Hamas. I mean all who are affected by the barrage of propaganda and outright lies coming from Hamas.
uponit7771
(93,464 posts)Richard D
(10,018 posts)But why would so many deep fake pictures be manufactured and distributed?
uponit7771
(93,464 posts)TheKentuckian
(26,314 posts)sarisataka
(22,202 posts)A couple days ago there were two OPs about how Hamas is not responding to Qatar's requests to discuss the hostages and further releases.
-crickets
Yesterday there were three OPs that Hamas was threatening to kill every hostage.
-crickets
Multiple OPs about vandalism of Menorahs today
-crickets
"Did you hear what Israel did..."
-dozens of replies
At some point the benefit of the doubt is exceeded.
TheKentuckian
(26,314 posts)
LakeArenal
(29,949 posts)My imagination runs wild.
revmclaren
(2,613 posts)FFRed or tombstoned here since October 7th. Still happening almost daily.
More will be coming IMHO.
LakeArenal
(29,949 posts)revmclaren
(2,613 posts)I also like to check past posts and the archives.
Tells me a great deal about posters.
Response to malaise (Original post)
Post removed
Basic LA
(2,047 posts)President Biden attributes it to Israel's "indiscriminate bombing." And FWIW, the L.A. Times is the latest editorial board to ask the US to "reverse its position against a ceasefire."
elleng
(141,926 posts)What is 'the world' going to do about it, and how?
TheProle
(3,892 posts)Charlie Chapulin
(371 posts)I would love to see Bibi (and a few others) stand in the dock at the Hague.
TheProle
(3,892 posts)Sky Jewels
(9,148 posts)One small bucket for them all to shit in. Very little water, so they can suffer like the Palestinian people. Food maybe every other day, if they're lucky. Five thin mattresses for six people, so they have to rotate. And throw away the key.
keithbvadu2
(40,915 posts)'The world' does not seem to care that Hamas has vowed to commit genocide on the Jews.
They want to kill more Jews just like Trump's republicans do.
The Palestinian Authority has supported Hamas.
A ceasefire with no follow-up supports Hamas to rebuild and they promise to commit more of the terrorism.
Support peace.
Beastly Boy
(13,283 posts)
revmclaren
(2,613 posts)The attacks against those not following the 'correct narrative ' has ratcheted up a notch.
jaxexpat
(7,794 posts)At the least, they are irresponsible. At the worst, they are international criminals. They are templates who MAGAs idolize. MAGAs condemn criticism of them, calling the critics antisemitic. Any old meme will do for those out to "own" the libs. One could choke to death on the hypocrisy and hubris.
Sky Jewels
(9,148 posts)Enough! U.S. taxpayers have helped fund barbaric and brutal treatment of Palestinians for way too long.
Arazi
(8,682 posts)You’re just going to see the conflict go on longer and with more horrific destruction since Israel will just turn to cheaper dumb bombs instead of precision guided weapons.
Make no mistake, Israel isn’t quitting and your desire to remove US munitions just ensures a longer bloodier war
AloeVera
(3,944 posts)See post #94
The horrific destruction has already happened.
https://edition.cnn.com/2023/12/13/politics/intelligence-assessment-dumb-bombs-israel-gaza/index.html
Calculating
(3,000 posts)Demonic is more like it.
LetMyPeopleVote
(174,210 posts)Here are some more facts. The civilian causalities are due to Hamas using children, patients and civilians as human shields
Link to tweet
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2014/07/31/why-hamas-stores-its-weapons-inside-hospitals-mosques-and-schools/
But hidden inside the pulpit, Israel alleged, were a Kalashnikov assault rifle, a bulletproof vest and binoculars. Soldiers soon spread the mosque’s cache on the floor, a haul that included a rifle, grenades and ammunition. Hamas operatives, Israel charged, were to blame.
“The many mosques in the Gaza Strip serve not only religious functions, but are also put to military use by Hamas and other terrorist organizations,” the Meir Amit Intelligence and Terrorism Information Center said at the time. “They are used to hide terrorist operatives, store weapons, as sites from which rockets and mortar shells are launched.”.....
The United Nations has found troves of rockets hidden in three of its schools since the conflict began. “We condemn the group or groups who endangered civilians by placing these munitions in our school,” Chris Gunness, spokesman for the U.N. Relief and Works Agency, said in statement published Wednesday by the Times of Israel. “This is yet another flagrant violation of the neutrality of our premises. We call on all the warring parties to respect the inviolability of U.N. property.”
No one is happy about the loss of civilian life but using civilians and children as human shields is a war crime and Hamas bears the responsibility for many of these deaths due Hamas' tactics.
Sky Jewels
(9,148 posts)Brutally slaughtering thousands of innocents and leveling Gaza and making it uninhabitable...The mental gymnastics required to convince oneself that it's not genocide are beyond my comprehension.
Coventina
(29,078 posts)within its borders?
Big Blue Marble
(5,666 posts)Right now, many are terrified and some have been arrested and beaten.
Coventina
(29,078 posts)onecaliberal
(36,594 posts)That are brown. Only the white ones.
madaboutharry
(42,025 posts)Over half of the Israelis are Mizrachi and Sephardic Jews and just as brown, or even browner, than the brown people you are talking about.
sarisataka
(22,202 posts)Are made against using the term antisemitic for actions against Jews. The claim is made that Arabs and Palestinians are also Semitic people and they all came from the same land so the term doesn't apply only to Jews.
But when it is convenient, Jews magically become white European colonists. Invaders who come from afar to steal land they have no claim to...
Richard D
(10,018 posts). . . Jews.
Anyone can look it up in a dictionary on entomology source.
sarisataka
(22,202 posts)But there are those who attempt to obfuscate the definition.
I doubt they realize the people who came up with the idea of "Semitic" races are the same that forwarded the idea of an "Aryan" race.
In an interesting twist, they are the same ones who came up with the term 'antisemitic'. It replaced the more obvious term Judenhass- Jew hate- and only applied to Jews, not other "Semitic" peoples.
Richard D
(10,018 posts)I was just adding to the thread.
sarisataka
(22,202 posts)
JI7
(93,113 posts)The brown and black Israelis are over 50 percent
LeftInTX
(34,013 posts)Israel is 60% Mizrahi now. The worst calls are coming from Arab and Iranian Jews who were displaced from their homelands. They're Jewish families that are from Iraq, iran, Tunisia, Yemen etc. 900,000 were displaced and went to Israel.
That Ben Gzir guy has family from Iraq. The guy who killed Rabin is a Yemenite Jew. A Tunisian Jew put out his own 'Israel ftom the river to the sea" tweet the other day. The liberal peace loving Jews tend to be white, but the right swing is from Mizrahi Jews which are brown.
TexasDem69
(2,317 posts)By any acceptable definition it’s simply not. It is war, caused by Hamas’ rape and murder of Israeli men, women and children. This isn’t a difficult concept to understand, and the constant attacks on Israel defending itself are disconcerting to say the least.
Coventina
(29,078 posts)same as it ever was....
sadly....
TexasDem69
(2,317 posts)Has indeed been monstrous. I’ve been left speechless by the comments of purported liberals who go out of their way to excuse Hamas’ terrorism or condemn Israel’s efforts to eliminate terrorists and child-killers.
Basic LA
(2,047 posts)Are liberals the problem now? This is indeed a new DU.
TexasDem69
(2,317 posts)Who support Hamas or excuse their actions aren’t “us.” They’re certainly not representing me or President Joe Biden.
Basic LA
(2,047 posts)Unless you think any support for Palestine is support for Hamas. Liberals & the left tend toward compassion for the underdog & the oppressed as you know. The bombing of hospitals & the collective punishment of an entire population has triggered that liberal reaction worldwide. Sympathies have shifted.
CincyDem
(7,303 posts)Years and decades of partnership building have evaporated. Temples bussing members to protests against the Muslim travel ban, gay rights marches, BLM support rallies and voting rights marches to name a few. We have been active participants making our voices heard with oppressed communities across the board.
Following Hamas’ brutal terrorist attack, those partners are in large part silent. Not to an every person level but those who are supportive are the exception to the rule.
This was evident in the earliest days after the attack. Community gatherings to mourn the victims of 10/7 during that first week were telling. My observation locally…they were noticeably “Jewish” compared to other such gatherings (Tree of Life shooting, last years menorah lighting for example). Before the first retaliatory bullets were fired inside Gaza, most of those partner groups suddenly had conflict schedules…logistical issues…and worst of all, silent denial that there was a need to be supportive.
I guarantee you many Jews are wondering how these allies shifted so quickly to fair weather friends. Much of the defensiveness that exists in mid December about everyone knowing what Israel should do now is rooted in those early days where the message sent by so many was “y’all on your own”.
I don’t know what it looks like when this calms down to a quiet roar and I think there’s a political shift going on throughout many Jewish communities, particularly reform and conservative groups.
I don’t think it plays out in voting because women’s rights, gay rights, health care, educational freedom…these are as important to the US Jewish community as they are to everyone and as defining as 10/7 has been, it hasn’t shaken those foundations. But there will be ripples for a long time as we sort out what it means to be on our own.
Finally, I wouldn’t use the word monstrous. 10/7 was monstrous. Seeing so many allies at best stand silent and at worst suggest that 10/7 was somehow justified…it’s heartbreaking.
Behind the Aegis
(55,881 posts)
TheKentuckian
(26,314 posts)over the decades nor will I ever forget or likely forgive the treachery, deceit, and faithless abandonment.
False allies are worse than an honest enemy.
David__77
(24,500 posts)Sky Jewels
(9,148 posts)You’re purposely conflating the two. Israel and its government/Netanyahu do not equal “all Jewish people.” They are not the same. And you know it. Yet you purposely switch the terms to pretend I’m being antisemitic. How convenient for you. And what a bunch of B.S. Shame on you for being disingenuous about this very fraught issue. I would have expected better from you.
Coventina
(29,078 posts)I am NOT Jewish, but I have many coworkers who are, and many of my students are (there is a large Jewish community near my place of work).
They are NOT feeling safe right now. They are traumatized.
Why? Because Hamas is actively and SUCCESSFULLY whipping up a lot of hatred and actual REPRISALS against Jews worldwide.
So, yes, when I see the world's most prominent JEWISH institution being described as "monstrous" it does SUGGEST a conflation. There is a LOONNNGGG ugly history behind this.
I apologize if that was not your intention. I will, on my side, try to reserve jumping to conclusions, but can we all agree to be more careful with language?
BannonsLiver
(20,199 posts)sarisataka
(22,202 posts)I recall hearing similar things said about the people of Israel before but I can't quite put my finger...
Oh, yes it was before they moved to Israel
Think. Again.
(22,456 posts)...on DU, it is best, when discussing the governmental/military actions of Israel, to clearly state that you are speaking of the actions of netanyahu et al, and not to use the word "Israel", so as to not be accused of antisemitism due to the interpretation that you are speaking of the actions of the Jewish population of Israel.
onecaliberal
(36,594 posts)The actions of the “governments” speaks for itself.
David__77
(24,500 posts)Calculating
(3,000 posts)Did they think the Jews were kidding about that? What did they think would happen when they conducted an unprovoked attack brutally murdering 1400+ Jews in all kinds of horrific and monstrous ways? The stuff Hamas did was awful beyond words, the stuff of the worst horror movies and then some.
leftstreet
(38,735 posts)SarahD
(1,732 posts)The way they're attacking is very rough, and some of their cabinet ministers are saying things suggesting they plan to depopulate Palestine. I think Netanyahu knows he will have to ease up or lose important supporters. Maybe. We'll see.
Runningdawg
(4,660 posts)Two wrongs do not make a right.
LeftInTX
(34,013 posts)Israel is exempt from the ICC anyway. (That's another problem)
Kennah
(14,465 posts)
BlueTsunami2018
(4,821 posts)All of this could have been very easily avoided by simply not attacking Israel. Every country surrounding it has attempted to destroy it and annihilate its people at one time or another. Hamas’ stated goal is the elimination of Israel and the Jewish people and somehow they’re the victim here? It’s unbelievable that people are buying into this absurdity. And cheapening the term genocide in this matter is just another stab at the Jewish people. Likening them to Nazis is the ultimate insult. Have we forgotten why the state was created in the first place?
Quite frankly, I admire the restraint they’ve shown over the years and decades while constantly having to defend themselves against lunatics bent on their complete destruction.
If Israel wanted genocide, there would be genocide. This isn’t it, not by a long shot.
Patton French
(1,815 posts)
Shrek
(4,386 posts)I would love to read it.
Coventina
(29,078 posts)I'm still waiting.......
EX500rider
(12,132 posts)
Straw Man
(6,925 posts)I don't recall being asked. Oh, you mean the diplomatic corps? Thinly veiled political operatives: nothing more, nothing less.
Happy Hoosier
(9,384 posts)Israel is not above suspicion, but when it comes to Jew-hate, be very, very skeptical.
The fact that Antisemitic activities are off the chart should tell you a lot.
Not that expect you'll honestly address any of that.
Jedi Guy
(3,396 posts)With the purchase of an appeal to the majority fallacy, you also get an appeal to authority fallacy at no extra cost. What a deal.
mathematic
(1,601 posts)Add that together with the billions of people around the world that live in cultures that take antisemitism as a given and you're bound to find plenty of people lying about Israel.
Israel's right to self defense from Palestinian terrorism is not up for a vote and never will be.
agree 
Laura PourMeADrink
(42,770 posts)But it's becoming more universally apparent here that BOTH sides kill people.
revmclaren
(2,613 posts)Last edited Fri Dec 15, 2023, 08:31 PM - Edit history (2)
tenderfoot
1:31 PM
Yeah, I self-deleted
You blood thirsty fascist.
Take a screenshot.
The truth hurts.
Here is the screen shot .......
[url=https://ibb.co/8dP1zb2][img][/img][/url]
......................
Definitely a returning ex member...attention EarlG and mirt.
Edited for screen shot.
It is a sad day here at DU when longtime members are attacked for their posts, even in their own DU emails.
If those here on DU cannot control their anger against fellow posters, it makes me wonder how they are reacting to alternative views in the real world.
But this just steels me to continuing posting my views. I will not be cowed by bullies.
🕍 
Coventina
(29,078 posts)Completely unacceptable.
revmclaren
(2,613 posts) 
ForgedCrank
(3,005 posts)"world" doesn't really understand what genocide means.
Hamas declared war on Israel, and that is exactly what they got.
It has been 9 weeks since Hamas terrorists murdered, raped, tortured, and burned over 1,000 Israelis.
If Israel wanted to commit "genocide", Gaza would have been a sheet of glass 8 weeks ago, and not a single living soul would be left today.
The Israelis have a job to do now. For the sake of their own survival, I hope they follow it through and finish this time, and don't buckle to outside forces who aren't living there and having rockets rained on their heads every day of the year. Hamas could save every single person in Gaza right now and stop the bombs immediately if they wanted to. Instead, they vow to do the same thing again and again, and we already know from history that if they are allowed to, they will.
There is but one way to prevent this from happening again. You don't negotiate with these people.
TheKentuckian
(26,314 posts)This is just false witness.
They are without honor.